| krotscheck | elmiko: pong? | 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
| krotscheck | (Full disclosure, I'm in daycare mode) | 00:05 |
| krotscheck | elmiko: DOH. Sorry, I hear the munchkin | 00:06 |
| * krotscheck is amazed at how inconsistent his sleep schedule is. | 00:06 | |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/python-openstackclient: Remove the Tuskar client https://review.openstack.org/273080 | 00:25 |
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| xiexs__ | dtroyer,Richard: hi dean and Richard, could you please review the "crash dump" patch again if you have time. thanks. | 01:57 |
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| openstackgerrit | Brad Behle proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: Add availability zone support for network commands https://review.openstack.org/273321 | 02:55 |
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| openstackgerrit | linwei wu proposed openstack/cliff: neutron wrong command display with unicode https://review.openstack.org/273392 | 08:39 |
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| openstackgerrit | Ethan Lynn proposed openstack/python-openstacksdk: Override delete function of senlin cluster/node https://review.openstack.org/273450 | 10:48 |
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| openstackgerrit | Tang Chen proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: Remove marker and loop from "image list" command https://review.openstack.org/273466 | 11:19 |
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| elmiko | cdent: no hiding! | 13:50 |
| * cdent tries to hide | 13:51 | |
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| elmiko | haha | 13:52 |
| cdent | I'm getting too good at adding responsibilities to myself | 13:52 |
| elmiko | i know the feeling ;) | 13:53 |
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| * cdent lets etoews do everything | 13:55 | |
| elmiko | lol | 13:58 |
| elmiko | i can't be that mean | 13:58 |
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| elmiko | ;P | 13:58 |
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| elmiko | haha | 14:00 |
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| cdent | elmiko: i've linked to my email on the summit agenda notes: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-January/085206.html | 14:11 |
| elmiko | cdent: ah, excellent. (in a meeting currently, but i'll check it out in a few) | 14:12 |
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| elmiko | man... didn't realize that email thread had blown up | 14:17 |
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| cdent | yeah, there's all kinds of crazy shit in there | 14:20 |
| elmiko | it's good stuff, i just feel like i really stepped in it lol | 14:22 |
| cdent | If that's the case you should step in it more. | 14:22 |
| cdent | Stepping in it is what causes people to participate | 14:22 |
| elmiko | good point | 14:22 |
| * elmiko dives on the grenade | 14:23 | |
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| cdent | elmiko: I'll go back through those header related specs soonish | 15:04 |
| cdent | mentally melted at the moment | 15:04 |
| elmiko | cdent: thanks, i think they are all inline with what has been discussed | 15:04 |
| elmiko | they all use SERIVCE_TYPE somewhere in the headers, i just knew we had come to discussions about the whole issue in the past | 15:05 |
| cdent | I think you're right that an option needs to be open for services not in the service catalog to do whatever they like, but to keep in mind how/where the service names may matter to them some day | 15:05 |
| elmiko | yea, but how much of that is implicit in the idea that you can choose to ignore the guidelines if you want | 15:06 |
| elmiko | i like the very positive statements you made about the guidelines we are proposing and how strongly opinionated/curated they should be | 15:07 |
| elmiko | but i also note, that none of the detractors have, or probably will, respond to those comments | 15:07 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dina Belova proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: Add shell --profile option to trigger osprofiler from CLI https://review.openstack.org/255861 | 15:10 |
| cdent | elmiko: yes, sad but true | 15:11 |
| gouthamr_ | elmiko cdent: i have a question regarding that; the question's specific to a project i work on: Manila; its services have two endpoints in Keystone; thus exposing two service_types ... what's an ideal way for this project to abide by the said guidelines? | 15:11 |
| cdent | gouthamr_: It's a good question... | 15:12 |
| elmiko | gouthamr_: great question, what are the 2 service types that get exposed? | 15:12 |
| gouthamr_ | elmiko cdent: one of the service types will go away in the future; however, it's going through its standard deprecation process | 15:12 |
| cdent | the straight answer is: use both service names where it matters | 15:12 |
| cdent | however I can see how that's a pain | 15:12 |
| cdent | that part of the reason I question this idea of namespacing the headers so exentisively | 15:13 |
| dtroyer | gouthamr_: is this a case where two SC entries point to the same endpoint? | 15:14 |
| cdent | "foobar-foobar-microversion: value" seems no less good or bad than "microversion: foobar-foobar/value" | 15:14 |
| cdent | good question dtroyer | 15:14 |
| gouthamr_ | dtroyer: no, different endpoints; very alike URLs.. | 15:14 |
| dtroyer | from the client standpoint, I would hope to be able to assemble the correct header from what I have on hand, which will be the SC | 15:15 |
| dtroyer | gouthamr_: ok, good. Two SC entries to a single endpoint was the first place I thought of where just using the SC service type directly wasn't going to be clean | 15:15 |
| elmiko | cdent: that's kinda my other issue with this topic, as it specifically pertains to headers | 15:15 |
| cdent | dtroyer++ | 15:16 |
| elmiko | cdent: why do we need to keep some sort of consistency with the service catalog entry types if you are talking specifically to a known service controller | 15:16 |
| elmiko | wouldn't you want to check their api docs to know the proper values? | 15:16 |
| cdent | what we want is for code written for a particular service-type to work when used against a different instance of the same service-type | 15:17 |
| elmiko | cdent: this is going along the lines of multiple impls for a single service? | 15:17 |
| cdent | and we want it to be possible for people create library code which will correctly assemble requests for those two different instantiations of the service-type in a context where the end user will not ever read the docs | 15:18 |
| cdent | elmiko: long term, maybe, but short term it is the case that some instances of the same service implementation differ | 15:19 |
| cdent | this stuff doesn't really address that problem but helps consciousness of it | 15:19 |
| elmiko | right, the disconnect for me is when it specifically comes to the headers for say microversions | 15:19 |
| cdent | I think it is more of a social than technical thing | 15:20 |
| cdent | which is lame | 15:20 |
| elmiko | if i am talking to the sahara controller, for data-processing service, then i might send a request with some header OpenStack-Microversion-Data-Processing-Min-Version, or some such | 15:20 |
| cdent | but important | 15:20 |
| elmiko | but if the backend impl changes then the microversions may be vastly different | 15:21 |
| cdent | that's a good question (we've had several so far) | 15:21 |
| elmiko | in those cases, i could see the value of saying OpenStack-Microverion-Sahara-Min-Version, as i know i am talking to a specific impl | 15:21 |
| dtroyer | elmiko: that sounds like the different implementations are not of the same API | 15:21 |
| cdent | and I think the answer should be that sahara provides a data-processing API at microversion x.y | 15:22 |
| cdent | it does not provide the sarah api at microversion x.y | 15:22 |
| cdent | this is an intentional constraint | 15:22 |
| elmiko | dtroyer, cdent, both good points | 15:22 |
| cdent | we don't want there to be a sahara data processing api and a mojave data processing api | 15:22 |
| cdent | tehre is only a data processing api | 15:22 |
| dtroyer | ++ | 15:22 |
| cdent | for people who want that reality to happen we have to start building constraints into the system _now_ to bring it about | 15:23 |
| dtroyer | even through there are a number who resist the 'OpenStack is APIs' notion, that is really what we have to enforce anyway | 15:23 |
| elmiko | i'm ok with that, i've just never seen it explicitly stated that these APIs will be the gold standard around which others can create alternative impls | 15:23 |
| cdent | yeah, dtroyer, that argument is exhausting, but if we want that cloud interop thing, its the foundation | 15:23 |
| elmiko | dtroyer: right.. that gets to the heart of the question | 15:23 |
| cdent | elmiko: you've not heard because some people don't agree with it | 15:24 |
| elmiko | and i think it also make the water very murky | 15:24 |
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| elmiko | cdent: right, i can see how controversial it would be | 15:24 |
| cdent | but it is sort of the only logical conclusion if (and there's not that much agreement on even this) the cloud interop thing is real | 15:24 |
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| elmiko | because right now, whether it is good for the API design or not, each project team is getting to define how an API will exist for an entire cloud interop field | 15:24 |
| cdent | so yeah, controvery | 15:25 |
| cdent | dammit typing is hard! | 15:25 |
| cdent | elmiko: yes, thus the need for a strong api-wg... | 15:25 |
| cdent | which isn't going to happen without some boost from...somewhere | 15:25 |
| elmiko | fair | 15:26 |
| * cdent points sdague at the backlog | 15:26 | |
| cdent | (as I reckon he might be interested) | 15:26 |
| elmiko | and honestly, i'm ok with working towards making the api guidelines a middle point for discussions about standardization of api | 15:26 |
| dtroyer | I think at some point we need to start pushing for 'new' APIs to adhere to the guidelines. This might be the first step in working backward into shaping up the existing implementations | 15:26 |
| elmiko | i just find the whole topic very unclear... | 15:26 |
| cdent | dtroyer: yeah. We talked in tokyo about coming up with ways to test | 15:27 |
| elmiko | dtroyer: oh man... i don't want to be in the room when *that* conversation gets floated ;) | 15:27 |
| dtroyer | :) some things are never going to change, but there are now a lot of projects present that are still not tied to their history hard enough to not be nudged | 15:28 |
| elmiko | well that's encouraging | 15:29 |
| cdent | there will be plenty of people thinking that it is yet more bureaucrats trying to get their oar in | 15:29 |
| cdent | but it isn't really that | 15:29 |
| elmiko | and i would really hope we can get to a point where the service APIs can be used in a more public manner to create alternatives and whatnot | 15:29 |
| elmiko | cdent: yea, i know. but if we start to talk about how the guidelines can be used to bring forth a new era of APIs that will be standard, and good, and blah. we will branded as bolsheviks for sure ;) | 15:30 |
| cdent | If an API is well described then it ought to be relatively straightforward to create e.g. the go implementation of the telemetry api or something | 15:30 |
| elmiko | +1 | 15:30 |
| cdent | I've always wanted that brand | 15:30 |
| cdent | #fullcommunism! | 15:30 |
| elmiko | hahaha | 15:30 |
| dtroyer | I am not sure we are at the point that API guidelines are ready to be in the secondary list of 'one of us' criteria, but I personally want to move in that direction. | 15:31 |
| elmiko | fair | 15:31 |
| openstackgerrit | wuhao proposed openstack/api-wg: Add description of pagination parameters https://review.openstack.org/190743 | 15:32 |
| dtroyer | ^^^ now there's a nice calm topic ;) | 15:32 |
| cdent | you're right dtroyer, there's a long way to go | 15:32 |
| elmiko | dtroyer, cdent, many thanks for the comments on the email chain. i enjoyed reading your positions and i agree in general about taking a strong opinion about the guidelines we create. i'm gonna readjust my focus on the service type issue. | 15:32 |
| elmiko | dtroyer: hahaha! | 15:32 |
| dtroyer | progress is visible. I haven't had my nose in API-WG directly for a while, but in my recent context-change for $DAY_JOB I get a fresh view of how it is seen, and progress really is visible | 15:34 |
| elmiko | \o/ | 15:35 |
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| * etoews reads | 15:37 | |
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| etoews | api wg meeting in 15 min in #openstack-meeting-3 | 15:45 |
| elmiko | etoews: i added your suggestion to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/271321/ | 15:45 |
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| etoews | ++ | 15:46 |
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| etoews | elmiko: in your research into the version responses. did you notice if any projects aside from keystone uses jsonhome? ( see my comment here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/254895/ ) | 15:51 |
| elmiko | etoews: yea, i thought there was another project doing json-home, but i'm blanking on it right now | 15:52 |
| etoews | hmmm...message service maybe? | 15:57 |
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| elmiko | etoews: yea, that could be | 15:58 |
| elmiko | i feel like, maybe ironic too? | 15:59 |
| elmiko | etoews: yea, zaqar for sure. https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zaqar/specs/api/v1.1#Get_Home_Document | 16:00 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/python-openstackclient: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/273542 | 16:57 |
| openstackgerrit | Mark Vanderwiel proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: Allow wait_for_delete to work for all clients https://review.openstack.org/273653 | 16:57 |
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| agentleweb | hi scottda | 17:00 |
| cdent | to repeat what I said over in meeting: : I think we should get together with various service catalog people because the suggested rule of "just use the service type" gets weird when you have volume, volumev2, compute, computev21 | 17:00 |
| agentleweb | tell me more about what you're looking into? | 17:00 |
| elmiko | cdent: yes | 17:00 |
| edleafe | cdent: compute and computev21 aren't service types, are they? | 17:01 |
| cdent | I'm saying they should be | 17:01 |
| edleafe | why? | 17:01 |
| cdent | I'm saying that in some service catalogs there are: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/API_Working_Group/Current_Design/Service_Catalog#DevStack | 17:01 |
| edleafe | they are versioned endpoints for the compute service type | 17:01 |
| agentleweb | we talked about this | 17:01 |
| agentleweb | http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-specs/specs/service-catalog.html#proposed-change | 17:01 |
| cdent | sorry edleafe "I'm _not_ saying they should be" | 17:01 |
| scottda | And how about the header for Cinder microversions? OpenStack-[Volume | Block-Storage]-microversion | 17:01 |
| edleafe | cdent: <whew!> | 17:02 |
| cdent | thanks agentleweb | 17:02 |
| cdent | so yeah, we want unversioned endpoints with unversioned types | 17:02 |
| agentleweb | check out http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-specs/specs/service-catalog.html#work-items | 17:02 |
| cdent | (in the catalog) | 17:02 |
| edleafe | cdent: +1 | 17:02 |
| agentleweb | basically we still need extra data to allow for say, a service catalog with two compute endpoings | 17:02 |
| agentleweb | points | 17:02 |
| cdent | if/when we get that they we can prescribed the heade naming rule of "use the service type" | 17:03 |
| agentleweb | we have this need at Rackspace for example | 17:03 |
| elmiko | scottda: my vote is for the governance based service type, but i think the catalog should get in line what that as well | 17:03 |
| agentleweb | cdent: we have the projects.yaml | 17:03 |
| agentleweb | is that what you mean cdent ? | 17:03 |
| edleafe | agentleweb: but those really aren't two *OpenStack* computes | 17:03 |
| cdent | elmiko: based on the conversation with dtroyer earlier, we want to be able to construct the headers from the service catalog without prior knowledge | 17:03 |
| agentleweb | nope | 17:03 |
| agentleweb | but we have to make a nicer user-first service catalog | 17:03 |
| scottda | OK, I'm going with OpenStack-Block-Storage-microversion | 17:04 |
| cdent | scottda: I don't think that's right | 17:04 |
| cdent | volume | 17:04 |
| agentleweb | scottda: where does that go? | 17:04 |
| edleafe | +1 to volume | 17:04 |
| scottda | agentleweb: in the HTTP header | 17:04 |
| ameade | agentleweb: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/243414/4/guidelines/microversion_specification.rst | 17:04 |
| elmiko | cdent:hmm | 17:05 |
| scottda | So, I might be missing this, but it looked like "Block Storage" in http://governance.openstack.org/reference/projects/cinder.html | 17:05 |
| elmiko | cdent: how does that square with things like volume and volumev2 though? | 17:06 |
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| cdent | elmiko: volume and volumev2 are artifacts of hooey, not the grand new happyt | 17:06 |
| elmiko | also, i thought the service catalog entries were supposed to configurable by the installers (efforts to standardize notwithstanding) | 17:06 |
| cdent | sadly I have to go | 17:06 |
| cdent | elmiko: the goals of service catalog ng is to not allow that | 17:06 |
| cdent | otherwise interop goes boom | 17:07 |
| cdent | the endpoints can change, but not the names | 17:07 |
| edleafe | yay to interop! | 17:07 |
| cdent | i'll join the logs later, good luck, sorry for leavig in the middle of things | 17:07 |
| elmiko | cdent: yea, i get that. maybe i'm just out of touch with the naming proposed for SC:TNG | 17:07 |
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| ameade | lets just roll with 'block-storage' then? | 17:08 |
| elmiko | so, is there supposed to be any congruence between the governance "official" service type names and the service catalog type names? | 17:08 |
| scottda | OK, API friends, thanks for the input. I'll be changing from "X-OpenStack-Cinder-API-microversion" to something in this review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/224910 | 17:08 |
| elmiko | agentleweb, edleafe ^^ | 17:08 |
| scottda | If not resolved here, it will be done there. | 17:08 |
| scottda | Please weigh in if you've consensus. | 17:09 |
| openstackgerrit | Jas Singh proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: Add 'port create' command https://review.openstack.org/273670 | 17:10 |
| elmiko | scottda: ack, thanks! | 17:11 |
| scottda | Thanks to you all! | 17:11 |
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| openstackgerrit | Jas Singh proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: Add 'port create' command https://review.openstack.org/273670 | 17:15 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dean Troyer proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: Add missing release notes https://review.openstack.org/273686 | 17:43 |
| openstackgerrit | Jas Singh proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: Add availability zone support for router commands https://review.openstack.org/270721 | 17:46 |
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| etoews | elmiko: seems nova is working towards using jsonhome? https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/liberty/approved/nova-api-json-home.html | 18:17 |
| elmiko | etoews: ooh, neat! | 18:24 |
| elmiko | still brings me back to the question of handling versioning with respect to changing the home page | 18:24 |
| stevemar | dtroyer: yo | 18:26 |
| dtroyer | hey | 18:26 |
| stevemar | whats up with your changing the release note format :O | 18:26 |
| stevemar | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/273686/ | 18:26 |
| dtroyer | uh, nothing? WTF did I do? | 18:26 |
| stevemar | dtroyer: also i won't make the osc meeting today #keystonemidcycle | 18:27 |
| stevemar | dtroyer: no bug links! | 18:27 |
| dtroyer | ah, right | 18:27 |
| stevemar | dtroyer: 2 things: | 18:27 |
| stevemar | https://github.com/openstack/python-openstackclient/blob/master/releasenotes/notes/bug-1475831-3caafd724d4ed644.yaml | 18:27 |
| stevemar | 1) you are now using "features' instead of "fixes" | 18:27 |
| stevemar | and 2) add links to the initial bug report | 18:27 |
| dtroyer | yeah, some are new, not fixes | 18:27 |
| stevemar | true | 18:28 |
| dtroyer | the bug link I totally whiffed on | 18:28 |
| stevemar | saaaawing battah battah | 18:28 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dean Troyer proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: Add missing release notes https://review.openstack.org/273686 | 18:45 |
| openstackgerrit | Karen Bradshaw proposed openstack/fairy-slipper: Publishing swagger to rst https://review.openstack.org/273718 | 19:23 |
| openstackgerrit | Jas Singh proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: Add 'port create' command https://review.openstack.org/273670 | 19:39 |
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| stevemar | dtroyer: yo, can you review this devstack change: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/272257/1 | 20:41 |
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| elmiko | etoews, just a question about the api-wg session. do i need to register this as a "presentation" ? | 20:46 |
| etoews | 1 sec... | 20:47 |
| elmiko | np | 20:47 |
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| etoews | elmiko: i'm not seeing any other options...where do you even see that? | 20:51 |
| elmiko | etoews: oh, i'm not aware of other options, just wanted to confirm | 20:51 |
| elmiko | (thought maybe you knew something else) | 20:52 |
| etoews | nope. presentation it is. choosing the Working Groups track is the key. | 20:52 |
| elmiko | got it, thanks! | 20:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dean Troyer proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: Add missing release notes https://review.openstack.org/273686 | 21:14 |
| openstackgerrit | Mark Vanderwiel proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: update heat object and command doc https://review.openstack.org/256098 | 21:16 |
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| openstackgerrit | Brad Behle proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: Add availability zone support for network commands https://review.openstack.org/273321 | 21:55 |
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| openstackgerrit | Akihiro Motoki proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: Update translation setup https://review.openstack.org/273780 | 22:07 |
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| openstackgerrit | Everett Toews proposed openstack/python-openstacksdk: Make functional test resources configurable https://review.openstack.org/265659 | 22:09 |
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| openstackgerrit | Akihiro Motoki proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: Update translation setup https://review.openstack.org/273780 | 23:19 |
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