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| openstackgerrit | Vishakha Agarwal proposed openstack/python-openstackclient master: WIP Adding options to user cli https://review.opendev.org/697444 | 11:24 |
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| mordred | rm_work: ossum | 13:59 |
| rm_work | :) | 13:59 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/shade master: Add source and contributing link in readme https://review.opendev.org/686871 | 15:31 |
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| elmiko | dtantsur: is the ironic thing happening today? | 15:55 |
| dtantsur | elmiko: ironic things happen every day | 15:56 |
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| dtantsur | it's not ironic-specific, more of adopting all openstack ansible modules (and re-shaping their API for consistency - hence API SIG involvement) | 15:57 |
| elmiko | ahh, gotcha | 15:57 |
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| cloudnull | o/ | 15:58 |
| elmiko | is ironic things happening everyday also ironic? | 15:58 |
| dtantsur | ironic things are ironically also ironic | 15:58 |
| elmiko | nice | 15:58 |
| cloudnull | isn't it ironic, don't you think? | 15:59 |
| dtantsur | ++ | 15:59 |
| ekultails | o/ | 15:59 |
| sshnaidm | dtantsur, can you run the mtg bot here? | 15:59 |
| dtantsur | we haven't done it for a while, I guess I can | 16:00 |
| elmiko | API SIG office hour now open | 16:00 |
| dtantsur | w00t | 16:00 |
| elmiko | i'll let you do your bot thingie | 16:00 |
| dtantsur | #startmeeting API-SIG | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Dec 5 16:00:31 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dtantsur. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: API-SIG)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'api_sig' | 16:00 |
| dtantsur | heya! | 16:00 |
| sshnaidm | dtantsur, cool, if you can chair me too please :) | 16:00 |
| dtantsur | today we're a bit hijacked by Ansible SIG and the ongoing effort of bringing OpenStack ansible modules under our wing | 16:01 |
| dtantsur | #chair sshnaidm elmiko | 16:01 |
| openstack | Current chairs: dtantsur elmiko sshnaidm | 16:01 |
| *** gtema has joined #openstack-sdks | 16:01 | |
| sshnaidm | ok, so thanks to SDK folks for the channel time :) | 16:01 |
| dtantsur | a big part of it will be re-designing the modules for consistency, hence our (API SIG) involvement | 16:01 |
| dtantsur | sshnaidm: take it from here :) | 16:01 |
| sshnaidm | dtantsur, right | 16:02 |
| sshnaidm | please use the etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-ansible-modules | 16:02 |
| dtantsur | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-ansible-modules | 16:02 |
| sshnaidm | we have update from gundalow from Ansible team | 16:02 |
| * gundalow waves | 16:02 | |
| sshnaidm | it's written in the bottom of etherpad | 16:02 |
| sshnaidm | and I think we have a few decisions to make | 16:02 |
| sshnaidm | 1. what is namespace name of openstack collections | 16:03 |
| * gundalow is available if there are any questions now (or later) | 16:03 | |
| sshnaidm | gundalow, great | 16:03 |
| elmiko | i just want to state for the record, that it is currently not within the goals of the api-sig to define guidance for these type of apis. /but/ with that said, it is within our goals to facilitate and promote these types of discussions. | 16:03 |
| sshnaidm | elmiko, thanks | 16:03 |
| dtantsur | well, our *actual* goals is to spend some time joking on each other | 16:04 |
| dtantsur | soooo... :D | 16:04 |
| elmiko | haha, too true | 16:04 |
| * cloudnull reengages with the meeting | 16:04 | |
| sshnaidm | so, can we use "openstack." namespace? | 16:05 |
| gundalow | So goal wise, all (will nearly all) modules/plugins will be removed from ansible/ansible before Ansible 2.10 ships. Getting a head of the curve and thinking about this now is good think | 16:05 |
| gtema | is it official target of Ansible to remove modules from core? | 16:05 |
| dtantsur | sshnaidm: my only concern is the fact that the collection won't be strictly "official" | 16:05 |
| sshnaidm | gundalow, so no more community modules in 2.10? | 16:05 |
| ekultails | What about modules that won't be able to find a new home? | 16:06 |
| sshnaidm | dtantsur, yeah, these licenses differences, that's why raised this | 16:06 |
| gundalow | ansible/ansible:stable-2.10 will only contain https://github.com/ansible-community/collection_migration/tree/master/scenarios/minimal | 16:06 |
| * jistr waves | 16:06 | |
| gundalow | ekultails: for "homeless modules" that are currently in ansible/ansible they may go in the "catch-all" (aka dumping ground) repo & Collection | 16:07 |
| dtantsur | ansible's stackforge :) | 16:07 |
| sshnaidm | cool | 16:07 |
| sshnaidm | so we're on time.. | 16:07 |
| jistr | sshnaidm: +1 for using openstack. namespace for the collection, since it's supposed to be "the official thing" | 16:08 |
| ekultails | gundalow: Okay, good to know, thanks. | 16:08 |
| gtema | and what about collection name? | 16:08 |
| jistr | openstack.openstack? :) | 16:08 |
| gtema | too weird | 16:08 |
| gundalow | https://github.com/theforeman/foreman-ansible-modules/pull/591 might have some useful background | 16:08 |
| dtantsur | openstack.<service type>? | 16:08 |
| dtantsur | otherwise why do we need both? | 16:08 |
| sshnaidm | gundalow, well, I think nobody should take "openstack" namespace except Openstack.. | 16:08 |
| ekultails | Not openstack.ansible, that could get confusing with OpenStack-Ansible. :-P | 16:08 |
| jistr | having both is a requirement by Ansible galaxy IIUC | 16:09 |
| dtantsur | #link https://github.com/theforeman/foreman-ansible-modules/pull/591 some helpful background | 16:09 |
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| gtema | for my org I ended up with "namespace.core" - for the core modules | 16:09 |
| gundalow | What else could go under `openstack.`? | 16:09 |
| dtantsur | gundalow: we can have a collection per service | 16:09 |
| gundalow | (forgive me, I'm not familiar with all the parts of OpenStack) | 16:09 |
| dtantsur | although it will probably complicate everything | 16:09 |
| jistr | yea i also thing that would complicate it... | 16:09 |
| dtantsur | gtema: we no longer have an official concept of core modules | 16:09 |
| gtema | I don not think collection per service make sense, more a one collection with "core" modules, and perhaps additional ones for some "extra-weird" stuff | 16:09 |
| dtantsur | we could have openstack.openstack and openstack.unofficial | 16:10 |
| sshnaidm | what is "core" modules? | 16:10 |
| dtantsur | let's avoid the term "core", it's a different thing for everyone | 16:10 |
| jistr | gtema, dtantsur: +1 i think that scenario might come up perhaps | 16:10 |
| gtema | well, everything what we have now | 16:10 |
| gtema | and i.e. for some weird provisioning of triple-o infra - there might be openstack.tripleo | 16:10 |
| sshnaidm | everything we have is kinda casual.. | 16:10 |
| sshnaidm | it's just what people could made quickly | 16:11 |
| jistr | gtema: +1. So for the ones that are getting imported from Ansible, i'd go openstack.openstack or openstack.core or something like that | 16:11 |
| sshnaidm | and I think it will look very different in the end | 16:11 |
| gtema | yeah, but I think openstack.core.server looks better than openstack.openstack.server or openstack.compute.server | 16:11 |
| sshnaidm | I'd vote for openstack.[service/project] names | 16:12 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 16:12 |
| dtantsur | I think for many people 'core' may be nova+cinder+neutron+glance+keystone | 16:12 |
| dtantsur | not things like ironic | 16:12 |
| sshnaidm | gtema, openstack.compute.servers is actually as in SDK | 16:12 |
| sshnaidm | and we may align with SDK here | 16:12 |
| jistr | sshnaidm: hmm that does look good indeed | 16:12 |
| gtema | I do not want to end up needing to do "ansible-galaxy collection install nova" | 16:12 |
| gtema | and neutron and ... | 16:12 |
| jistr | we'd force people to fetch multiple collections though... maybe not much of a problem | 16:13 |
| jistr | but i wonder about code sharing | 16:13 |
| ekultails | Would there be a way to have a meta collection that installs all relevant collections? | 16:13 |
| pabelanger | I would recommend openstack.openstack as the collection then you call openstack.openstack.os_nova, or maybe even community.openstack.os_nova | 16:13 |
| jistr | will openstack.<service> pattern complicate *writing* those collections in case we want to share code? | 16:13 |
| dtantsur | we could avoid the problem with code sharing by putting EVERYTHING in openstacksdk | 16:13 |
| sshnaidm | jistr, as we were talking previously there should be definitely common part, like auth for example | 16:13 |
| pabelanger | opentack.openstacksdk.os_nova would work too | 16:14 |
| dtantsur | are we keeping the os_ prefix? | 16:14 |
| sshnaidm | openstack.compute, openstack.network, openstack.tripleo - can it work? | 16:14 |
| pabelanger | but, i think you still want os_nova / os_neutron, otherwie, you will break a ton of playbooks | 16:14 |
| gundalow | FYI you can use https://github.com/ansible-community/collection_migration with a scenario file to pull the contents out of ansible/ansible into the correct structure | 16:14 |
| dtantsur | I guess it was only useful before namespacing? | 16:14 |
| sshnaidm | I dont' think need os_ now, it's a dup | 16:15 |
| gtema | while "openstacksdk" forever, what should it stand for? | 16:15 |
| pabelanger | for ansible/ansible migration, they should all be migrated to single repo | 16:15 |
| pabelanger | and namespace | 16:15 |
| gtema | os_ should be definitely dropped | 16:15 |
| gundalow | If you change the module names, you may break backwards compatibility between 2.9 and 2.10 unless you put in aliasing (symlink) | 16:15 |
| pabelanger | gtema: that is a huge breaking change | 16:15 |
| dtantsur | pabelanger: we're considering some breaking changes anyway, like unifying authentication | 16:15 |
| pabelanger | if you do, openstack.sdk.os_nova, you could still reference os_nova in your playbook | 16:16 |
| dtantsur | gundalow: would plain os_nova (without openstack.<something>) work after the migration? | 16:16 |
| pabelanger | yes | 16:16 |
| dtantsur | mmm, I see | 16:16 |
| gtema | he? is the migration from ansible to collection not a breaking change by itself? | 16:16 |
| dtantsur | it sounds like it's not THAT breaking | 16:16 |
| gtema | you anyway need to change your playbooks | 16:16 |
| dtantsur | or rather: it doesn't break the playbooks | 16:16 |
| pabelanger | I'd say no, you can keep same playbooks for most part | 16:16 |
| gtema | it does | 16:16 |
| gundalow | gtema: There is the idea of a "Community version of Ansible" that will ship with all the collections that make up what's in Ansible 2.9 | 16:16 |
| gtema | you need to refer to modules from collection or import collection | 16:17 |
| dtantsur | I'd seriously regret if we couldn't unify the auth though | 16:17 |
| dtantsur | (and s/os_ironic/os_baremetal/ ) | 16:17 |
| gtema | gundalow, but you anyway need to modify playbook | 16:17 |
| sshnaidm | maybe we can keep migrated ones and develop their replacement aside with new names..? | 16:17 |
| pabelanger | IMO, this goal for migration out of ansible/ansible, would be to use migration tool from ansible-core, then keep naming schema of modules the same | 16:17 |
| gtema | or "community version" will do some extra magic? | 16:17 |
| pabelanger | then do deprecation process on os_nova, os_neutron | 16:18 |
| gundalow | We may add some magic during Ansible 2.10 development that means if you are using the Ansible Community Distribution that you wouldn't need to change your playbooks - Though the exact details of this haven't been worked out uet | 16:18 |
| gundalow | yet* | 16:18 |
| pabelanger | sshnaidm: yah, that would be fine | 16:18 |
| dtantsur | realistically, we should probably do what sshnaidm proposes | 16:18 |
| jistr | +1 | 16:18 |
| dtantsur | I'm not sure we're going to have enough cycles to simultaneously refactor things | 16:18 |
| dtantsur | so maybe keep os_ prefix to designate old modules | 16:19 |
| sshnaidm | we'll just advertise new names for a few versions and then will remove old ones I think | 16:19 |
| dtantsur | and drop it for new ones | 16:19 |
| sshnaidm | dtantsur, ya | 16:19 |
| dtantsur | os_ironic_node is old, baremetal_node is new | 16:19 |
| pabelanger | +1 | 16:19 |
| gtema | perhaps better name them properly now and make alias | 16:19 |
| gundalow | FYI Ansible's deprecation cycle has been 4 major versions, so two years | 16:19 |
| dtantsur | gtema: not everything will be a mere rename | 16:19 |
| dtantsur | gundalow: is it the same for collections? | 16:19 |
| jistr | gtema: separating will allow developing new ones in a common way without worrying about breaking existing use | 16:19 |
| gtema | I know we are talking about more than simple rename | 16:20 |
| dtantsur | gundalow: to generalize my question: is there an expected release cadence? | 16:20 |
| gundalow | dtantsur: unsure | 16:20 |
| gtema | but if we do rename and alias | 16:20 |
| gtema | we can develop some standard, follow it | 16:20 |
| gundalow | dtantsur: at least twice a year (so new Ansible Engine releases can pick up the new contents) | 16:20 |
| gundalow | I'd hope that over time we can get quicker at doing releases | 16:20 |
| gtema | and be consistent in the new modules for those 4 cycles | 16:20 |
| dtantsur | okay, so synchronized with ansible releases? | 16:20 |
| pabelanger | I would go as far, until code is deleted in ansible/ansible (which date is up in the air), we continusoly run migration sync nightly, and make new collection repo read-only, then once ansible/ansible code is deleted, we unfreeze openstack collection | 16:20 |
| gtema | otherwise we have a mix of different patterns | 16:21 |
| pabelanger | this is our plan for ansible network team | 16:21 |
| dtantsur | pabelanger: I'd prefer to freeze only the existing modules, but allow new development | 16:21 |
| gundalow | So, for a moment ignoring refactoring. I don't think you want to break Playbooks that work in Ansible 2.9 | 16:21 |
| sshnaidm | pabelanger, +1 to dtantsur | 16:21 |
| sshnaidm | pabelanger, we'll have old ones for usage, but the main goal is new ones.. | 16:22 |
| pabelanger | sshnaidm: dtantsur: that is fine, but keep in mind, if a nightly sync happens, like proposed bot, we want to avoid conflicts | 16:22 |
| dtantsur | right, so make sure not to modify the same files | 16:22 |
| pabelanger | for me, we need to keep old ones for 2 years | 16:22 |
| pabelanger | even in a collection | 16:22 |
| dtantsur | like, set up gerrit to outright reject changes to os_*.py until we unfreeze | 16:22 |
| dtantsur | s/gerrit/zuul jobs/ | 16:22 |
| gundalow | Once the collection is up and running we can `git rm` the files from ansible/ansible | 16:23 |
| sshnaidm | pabelanger, I think we're good with that | 16:23 |
| pabelanger | yah, once migration happens, if everything is sync'd we can push on git rm on ansible/ansible | 16:23 |
| pabelanger | then freeze is over | 16:23 |
| pabelanger | but, that sync should be a zuul jobs | 16:23 |
| dtantsur | #agreed Import the existing modules as they are and freeze them. Keep syncing until ansible removes them from tree. | 16:23 |
| dtantsur | right? | 16:23 |
| pabelanger | I'm happy to share job for that, as we do it | 16:24 |
| pabelanger | (ansible-network) | 16:24 |
| sshnaidm | #action to collaborate with pabelanger to create sync zuul jobs | 16:24 |
| gtema | for how long do we expect to have this freeze? | 16:24 |
| sshnaidm | pabelanger, thanks, it'd be great | 16:24 |
| sshnaidm | gtema, to keep old modules you mean? | 16:24 |
| dtantsur | sshnaidm: #actions requires <who> | 16:24 |
| sshnaidm | #action sshnaidm to collaborate with pabelanger to create sync zuul jobs | 16:25 |
| pabelanger | gtema: freeze should be as long as we all agree, final sync looks good and we can rm -rf ansible/ansible | 16:25 |
| pabelanger | we should be able to drive delete date | 16:25 |
| dtantsur | gtema: until they are removed from ansible/ansible. then it's bugfix-only mode. | 16:25 |
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| pabelanger | that means, getting content uploaded into galaxy and some sort of pre-release versioning | 16:25 |
| gtema | ok then. I just wanted to avoid freeze, which will keep us ourselves with tied hands | 16:26 |
| gundalow | FYI for bug fixes for ansible/ansible:stable-2.9, once you've gitrm'd from devel you can create a PR directly against that branch, rather than `git cherry-pick -x` from devel into stable-2.9 | 16:26 |
| sshnaidm | and these bugfixes should be done in openstack repos since moving, right? | 16:26 |
| gundalow | Which may mean one fewer things to keep moving | 16:26 |
| gundalow | Once the collection is done, I'd expect bug fixes do be done in the collection first. Then optionally made to ansible/ansible:stable-2.9. Realistically I expect fewer backports to ansible/ansible once Collections are up and running | 16:27 |
| sshnaidm | gundalow, lemme understand, 2.9 backports via ansible github, all new - via our repos, right? | 16:27 |
| dtantsur | hmm, that's the opposite direction | 16:28 |
| pabelanger | backwards? | 16:28 |
| gtema | "main dev on our side" | 16:28 |
| gtema | and "port" fixes back to ansible-2.9 | 16:28 |
| pabelanger | that seem correct to me | 16:29 |
| sshnaidm | gtema, I think we shouldn't port there, maybe only some critical fixes | 16:29 |
| gtema | that's exactly about critical things, but I do not expect those honestly | 16:29 |
| pabelanger | it raises the question of maybe stable backports team? | 16:29 |
| pabelanger | which can handle sync to github | 16:30 |
| gtema | I don't think that just for 2.9 it make sense to have this overhead | 16:30 |
| gundalow | Current backport docs: https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/community/development_process.html#backporting-merged-prs | 16:30 |
| gundalow | Before Collections: 1) PR to `devel`, 2) wait for that to be merged. 3) For bug fixes only Create backport PR to `stable-2.x` | 16:30 |
| sshnaidm | I don't think we should backport anything to 2.9 at all, it looks working as is, and no much activity was there | 16:30 |
| dasp | Can I get some reviews on https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/65339 and https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/65292 ? (new qos_policy modules for Ansible) | 16:30 |
| pabelanger | sshnaidm: we can't say that however, as ansible/ansible still maintans that | 16:31 |
| gundalow | Unless I see a critical bug, I'm not going to be backporting anything to stable-2.9 after we've gitrm'd from devel | 16:31 |
| gtema | dasp - wrong channel. We are deciding to drop that at all ;-) | 16:31 |
| sshnaidm | pabelanger, I think we agree it should be something exceptional | 16:31 |
| pabelanger | +1 | 16:31 |
| dtantsur | okay, so do we even need a constant sync then? | 16:31 |
| sshnaidm | gtema, :D | 16:31 |
| gundalow | and "critical bug" is subjective, maybe you'd use that to your advantage :P | 16:32 |
| dtantsur | or just copy everything once and apply some policies by humans? | 16:32 |
| sshnaidm | dtantsur, I'd go for that for simplifying things | 16:32 |
| gundalow | Maybe I could give an example of what I'm doing with Grafana | 16:32 |
| gundalow | sshnaidm: ++ KEEP THINGS SINGLE | 16:32 |
| gundalow | SIMPLE | 16:32 |
| gtema | I think: import, github freeze, collection release, github rm | 16:32 |
| sshnaidm | single and simple :) | 16:32 |
| gtema | github = ansible upstream | 16:33 |
| sshnaidm | so no need to have sync jobs as well? | 16:33 |
| sshnaidm | pabelanger, ^ | 16:33 |
| gtema | if we handle import and first release in few days - I would say no | 16:33 |
| pabelanger | well, need some import process to gerrit | 16:33 |
| pabelanger | which, usually isn't manual | 16:34 |
| pabelanger | so we need something automated | 16:34 |
| pabelanger | or ask infra what they want to do | 16:34 |
| dtantsur | well, we did a manual import for ironic-tempest-plugin | 16:34 |
| dtantsur | it was a bit.. interesting | 16:34 |
| gtema | well, we have already changes in gerrit, so just more-or-less merge and release it | 16:34 |
| gundalow | For grafana (own repe & collection). | 16:34 |
| gundalow | I've create a new repo and the maintainers are doing there work there (CI is up, they are merging stuff) | 16:34 |
| gundalow | Once we've got publishing to Galaxy done and a final check we will see if there have been any other changes to grafana code in ansible/ansible, copy those across | 16:34 |
| gundalow | then gitrm & add `migrated_to` in BOTMETA.yml | 16:34 |
| gundalow | Then do $something with open grafana issues & PRs | 16:34 |
| pabelanger | right, not out of the question but we can ask infra | 16:34 |
| dtantsur | we extracted a git subtree from ironic, then asked infra adminds to push it :) | 16:34 |
| pabelanger | right | 16:34 |
| dtantsur | gundalow: sounds right and simple | 16:35 |
| gundalow | I'd avoid having to keep too many things in progres, and even fewer things in sync | 16:35 |
| gundalow | So maybe create a test collection, play with it, check it works. then do the move for real | 16:35 |
| gtema | therefore if we here (mostly the only ones approving changes in ansible) agree not to review anything else during releasing collection - we are fine | 16:36 |
| sshnaidm | (and I think we have some job that testing modules, it runs on github changes) | 16:36 |
| sshnaidm | gtema, I think we can agree here | 16:36 |
| gundalow | There is an OpenStack specific Zuul job that runs against OpenStack PRs in ansible/ansible | 16:36 |
| sshnaidm | gundalow, yeah, exactly, we can import it for collections repo | 16:37 |
| sshnaidm | as a start | 16:37 |
| gundalow | +1 | 16:37 |
| gtema | now with tests: from what I have experienced as of now with collections - you MUST modify plybooks | 16:37 |
| dtantsur | #agreed No periodic sync, just one-time migration with temporary freezes on both sides (ending with `git rm` on the ansible side) | 16:37 |
| dtantsur | right? | 16:37 |
| gundalow | gtema: ansible-test (in 2.9) has been updated so it should work without FQCN (Fully Qualified Collection Name) | 16:37 |
| sshnaidm | dtantsur++ | 16:37 |
| gtema | gundalow, ah ok. Nice to know | 16:38 |
| gundalow | dtantsur: Please add + add `migrated_to: openstack.FOO` in `.github/BOTMETA.yml` | 16:38 |
| gundalow | In the same PR | 16:38 |
| dtantsur | #undo | 16:38 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #agreed No periodic sync, just one-time migration with temporary freezes on both sides (ending with `git rm` on the ansible side) | 16:38 |
| gtema | but then we need to change our jobs to use "ansible-test" instead of "ansible-playbook". Right? | 16:38 |
| dtantsur | #agreed No periodic sync, just one-time migration with temporary freezes on both sides (ending with `git rm` and `migrated_to: openstack.FOO` on the ansible side) | 16:38 |
| dtantsur | gundalow: like ^^? | 16:38 |
| sshnaidm | gtema, ansible-test is just a different tool afaiu | 16:39 |
| sshnaidm | with sanity checks etc | 16:39 |
| gtema | yeah, looks like that | 16:39 |
| sshnaidm | maybe let's set a time for the moving? | 16:39 |
| sshnaidm | when can we do it? | 16:39 |
| sshnaidm | gundalow, any restrictions..? | 16:40 |
| gundalow | dtantsur: perfect, thank you | 16:40 |
| gtema | gundalow, what do I need to do not to use FQCN? | 16:40 |
| dtantsur | probably not right before winter holidays :) | 16:40 |
| dtantsur | or are we in time pressure? | 16:40 |
| sshnaidm | dtantsur, yeah, before xmass of after :) | 16:40 |
| gundalow | I'd suggest you continue to use `ansible-test sanity` that will help spot functional problems | 16:40 |
| dtantsur | I'm here next week, then out till January | 16:41 |
| gundalow | realistically I'd say play now (do a trial move, get CI working, define merging/+1, etc), move in Jan | 16:41 |
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| gtema | gundalow, our tests run "ansible-playbook ..." | 16:41 |
| sshnaidm | if no time pressure, let's do after holidays | 16:41 |
| gundalow | Jan is fine for me | 16:41 |
| dtantsur | any specific dates? | 16:42 |
| dtantsur | right the week of 6th or? | 16:42 |
| sshnaidm | dtantsur, we'll need to sync maybe | 16:42 |
| gundalow | I'm back on the 13th Jan | 16:42 |
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| sshnaidm | pabelanger, are you available in Jan? | 16:43 |
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| sshnaidm | dtantsur, I think we can start at 13 then | 16:43 |
| dtantsur | let's put it this way | 16:44 |
| sshnaidm | dtantsur, or at least to decide to postpone it then | 16:44 |
| dtantsur | #agreed Do the migration in the middle of January 2020 | 16:44 |
| gtema | gundalow, any change to "survive" with "ansible-playbook our_tests.yml"? | 16:44 |
| gundalow | gtema: So continue to use `ansible-playbook` directly for integration tests if that's how you currently do things 2) Please look at using `ansible-test sanity` in your new repo (currently this is run via Shippable on ansible/ansible PRs), this *will* catch valid issues that your integration tests may not | 16:44 |
| sshnaidm | ok, let's get back to agenda then | 16:45 |
| sshnaidm | are we keeping them GPL? | 16:45 |
| gundalow | gtema: unsure, if you speak to mattclay in #ansible-devel he might be able to give some ideas | 16:45 |
| gtema | but I mean ansible-playbook will fail when there is "git rm" | 16:45 |
| dtantsur | can we practically re-license them? | 16:45 |
| sshnaidm | or we start develop new in Apache2? | 16:45 |
| dtantsur | then we'll need clean-room development (without looking at old ones) | 16:45 |
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| gtema | gundalow, ok, will ask in #ansible-devel, but this is important to verify the whole migration | 16:46 |
| gtema | dtantsur: without looking will be very hard | 16:46 |
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| dtantsur | exactly, but that's the condition of re-licensing via rewriting | 16:46 |
| gtema | and we repeat all the issues we were fixing for ages | 16:46 |
| dtantsur | otherwise we need an agreement from every contributor whose code is still there | 16:47 |
| sshnaidm | https://bit.ly/2OUz1Xa | 16:47 |
| gtema | I know, and this is not what I would like to do | 16:47 |
| dtantsur | I'd keep shared bits permissive if possible, but the modules themselves probably have to be GPL | 16:47 |
| gtema | this is terrible, even if one has changed a typo | 16:47 |
| sshnaidm | are there licenses experts here? :) | 16:48 |
| pabelanger | sshnaidm: yes | 16:48 |
| * dtantsur wow | 16:48 | |
| sshnaidm | can we write new modules in different licenses? | 16:48 |
| sshnaidm | I mean not in GPL | 16:48 |
| sshnaidm | the goal is to deprecate old ones | 16:48 |
| gundalow | git log --pretty=format:"%an%x09" lib/ansible/modules/cloud/openstack | sort | uniq | wc -l ----> 157 | 16:49 |
| gundalow | (may be some duplicates, though that's a lot of people to get sign off from) | 16:49 |
| sshnaidm | wow | 16:50 |
| sshnaidm | should we ask all 155 people to agree? | 16:50 |
| gundalow | IANAL, though I if one person doesn't respond you can't do it | 16:50 |
| sshnaidm | I don't think it's doable at all | 16:50 |
| sshnaidm | gundalow, but it's for re-licensing, I'm talking about new modules develop | 16:51 |
| sshnaidm | I think it's kinda gray area here.. | 16:51 |
| dtantsur | it's grey indeed. how to distinguish new development from copy-pasting in case of very similar code? | 16:51 |
| sshnaidm | no idea, need license experts opinion :) | 16:51 |
| sshnaidm | although I hope it won't be copy paste | 16:52 |
| dtantsur | IANAL, only relaying what I've previously heard | 16:52 |
| sshnaidm | we don't need to copy paste, we just have them available.. | 16:52 |
| sshnaidm | mnaser mentioned some license-... maillist, maybe worth to ask there | 16:53 |
| mnaser | legal-discuss :) | 16:53 |
| dtantsur | ^^^ | 16:53 |
| sshnaidm | mnaser, yes! :) | 16:53 |
| mnaser | and yes i think you need to get all 155 people to agree AFAIK. but im not a license expert | 16:54 |
| dtantsur | the problem as I understand it, if you're familiar with old code, you won't be able to claim you wrote the new code without taking from it. | 16:54 |
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| sshnaidm | ok, but modules that don't have a parallel I think we can start with Apache2 | 16:54 |
| dtantsur | I mean, legally claim, we all here believe you :) | 16:54 |
| dtantsur | probably? I'd really bring it to legal-discuss | 16:54 |
| gtema | ok, time is running out. Summary? | 16:54 |
| dtantsur | gtema: we had a few #agreed | 16:55 |
| gtema | I would also vote for raising | 16:55 |
| gtema | in legal-discuss | 16:55 |
| dtantsur | #action sshnaidm To raise the licensing topic on legal-discuss | 16:55 |
| sshnaidm | #action to figure out which license to use for new developed modules in openstack collection, | 16:55 |
| dtantsur | correct? :) | 16:55 |
| sshnaidm | dtantsur, ack | 16:55 |
| dtantsur | you forgot <who> | 16:55 |
| dtantsur | #undo | 16:55 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #action to figure out which license to use for new developed modules in openstack collection, | 16:55 |
| dtantsur | okay, now we have one item | 16:55 |
| dtantsur | anything else? | 16:55 |
| sshnaidm | great | 16:55 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/openstacksdk master: tox: Keeping going with docs https://review.opendev.org/692503 | 16:56 |
| sshnaidm | wanted to ask about versioning of modules | 16:56 |
| sshnaidm | I don't think we need branches as openstack releases, right? | 16:56 |
| sshnaidm | should we just keep them compatible as much as possible? in case we have differences in openstacksdk for example | 16:56 |
| sshnaidm | any strong opinions about it? | 16:57 |
| dtantsur | I guess we need to match ansible? | 16:57 |
| gtema | I think current version checking in modules is sufficient. So no need for openstack releases from my POV | 16:57 |
| sshnaidm | dtantsur, why? | 16:58 |
| dtantsur | to allow combining them as gundalow mentioned? | 16:58 |
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| dtantsur | SDK has stable branches, OSC too (?) | 16:58 |
| sshnaidm | dtantsur, sorry, I missed it, to combine? | 16:58 |
| dtantsur | it feels like the modules could | 16:58 |
| gtema | at least "API" for the collections structure need to be kept in sync with Ansible | 16:58 |
| sshnaidm | gtema, yeah, that's right | 16:58 |
| dtantsur | sshnaidm: a distribution of ansible with all collections | 16:59 |
| dtantsur | right | 16:59 |
| sshnaidm | yeah, I think we agree on keeping them compatible with ansible | 16:59 |
| sshnaidm | otherwise it won't work :) | 16:59 |
| dtantsur | exactly :) | 17:00 |
| dtantsur | I guess we need to decide about stable branches | 17:00 |
| dtantsur | probably next time | 17:00 |
| sshnaidm | #agreed to keep modules compatible with Ansible collections API | 17:00 |
| sshnaidm | dtantsur, yep | 17:00 |
| sshnaidm | ok, thanks all for participation! | 17:00 |
| sshnaidm | next Thu same time same place | 17:00 |
| dtantsur | thanks, and thanks elmiko for tolerating us! | 17:00 |
| dtantsur | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bug tracker for SDK and OSC is now at https://storyboard.openstack.org" | 17:00 | |
| gtema | otherwise it is too silent :D | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Dec 5 17:00:56 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_sig/2019/api_sig.2019-12-05-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_sig/2019/api_sig.2019-12-05-16.00.txt | 17:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_sig/2019/api_sig.2019-12-05-16.00.log.html | 17:01 |
| sshnaidm | yeah, we fixed that) | 17:01 |
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| elmiko | dtantsur: gladly =) | 17:02 |
| gundalow | Good to chat everybody, please do shout out if there is anything else | 17:04 |
| gtema | thanks gundalow | 17:04 |
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| gundalow | dtantsur|afk: sshnaidm another option could be `redhat.openstack`. I think this comes down to how many OpenStack Collections you think there maybe | 17:36 |
| sshnaidm | gundalow, mm.. but our projects are community wide, not limited to redhat | 17:39 |
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| gundalow | sshnaidm: nod, that's a fair point | 17:47 |
| mordred | yeah - I would hope we only have one openstack collection | 18:04 |
| mordred | also - sorry I missed the meeting - I have plague today | 18:04 |
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| elmiko | hope you feel better soon mordred =) | 18:26 |
| mordred | elmiko: thanks! nothing says the holidays like laying around groaning | 18:26 |
| sshnaidm | gundalow, is there somewhere written about plans to move modules in 2.10? The roadmap looks a little bit empty https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/devel/roadmap/ROADMAP_2_10.html | 18:27 |
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| gundalow | sshnaidm: we are working on comma at the moment. I expect it to be out in the next week or so | 18:42 |
| elmiko | mordred: heh, totally | 18:59 |
| ekultails | Ansible 2.10 should really be 3.0 with all of this restructuring going on. Just my two cents. | 19:08 |
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| pabelanger | I'd be interested in how the collection release process will work | 19:11 |
| pabelanger | eg: | 19:11 |
| pabelanger | what will be the version number of this first collection release, targetted for 2.10 | 19:12 |
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| ekultails | I can't imagine every Collection aligning with Ansible's life cycle. I guess that is both a pro and a con that a Collection could push out updates independent of Ansible. | 19:44 |
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