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| gothicmindfood | hey all! | 13:18 |
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| gothicmindfood | heads up/reminder that our rescheduled SWG meeting is in ~40 minutes in #openstack-meeting-3 | 13:18 |
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| alexismonville | hello, is there's a meeting today? | 14:00 |
| gothicmindfood | alexismonville: yep! | 14:01 |
| alexismonville | gothicmindfood: cool, thx | 14:01 |
| EmilienM | ttx: back here | 15:01 |
| gothicmindfood | EmilienM: visions are viewed as things that can be modified, but hopefully don't have to be | 15:01 |
| EmilienM | ttx: yeah my question was about, can we try baby steps | 15:01 |
| alexismonville | in the definition ? | 15:01 |
| EmilienM | alexismonville: eventually | 15:01 |
| EmilienM | I don't know. I just like iterations in any work we're doing | 15:02 |
| jroll | that's why I tend toward a shorter time frame for the first one | 15:02 |
| alexismonville | ok :) we could say that we will have the vision ready in 3 weeks with a review each week and then that we will reconsider the vision at each PTG | 15:02 |
| EmilienM | I like to say "ok this is our target date, 2018, but before we can break down the document and set some milestones" | 15:03 |
| flaper87 | jroll: I like the sound of a shorter time for the first one, it gives us room to learn from the process | 15:03 |
| ttx | EmilienM: I see them as a tool to weigh decisions along the way. "Is decision X getting us closer to our vision or further away" | 15:03 |
| EmilienM | and make iterations, so we can adjust our way to define the document | 15:03 |
| gothicmindfood | EmilienM: milestones don't really belong in visions | 15:03 |
| EmilienM | I need a training | 15:03 |
| EmilienM | can we do it next week? | 15:03 |
| gothicmindfood | they belong in project planning after the vision is agreed on | 15:03 |
| EmilienM | :-) | 15:03 |
| gothicmindfood | EmilienM: :) | 15:03 |
| jroll | flaper87: yeah, exactly. I don't want us in a year to say "well, we still have a vision for the next year, let's not write another yet" | 15:03 |
| gothicmindfood | EmilienM: there's a lot of good writing over here on them: https://www.zingtrain.com/business-visioning | 15:04 |
| flaper87 | jroll: and that'll also provide more examples for future TC members and it'll make rotation easier | 15:04 |
| gothicmindfood | jroll: but usually you start with a longer term vision, and then make visions around shorter term arrival-points (I think) | 15:04 |
| EmilienM | I'm also unsure why we target 2018, but I probably need to re-think and re-read the things here. I guess I missed something | 15:05 |
| jroll | gothicmindfood: sure, just as a new process I tend to keep it shorter | 15:05 |
| EmilienM | gothicmindfood: thx for the link, I'll give you feedback on what I learnt | 15:06 |
| gothicmindfood | jroll: right, I think that's why I was getting into writing SWG visions for Barcelona/PTG | 15:06 |
| jroll | ah :) | 15:06 |
| gothicmindfood | because it's good practice for understanding what works and doesn't | 15:06 |
| gothicmindfood | I still don't feel very good at writing visions | 15:07 |
| gothicmindfood | or understanding how they work | 15:07 |
| * EmilienM needs to be afk a bit | 15:07 | |
| jroll | yeah, the tense throws me a bit, if that makes sense | 15:07 |
| gothicmindfood | right? and sometimes I'm like "the leaves are falling and the air is chilly..." because it feels like I'm writing prose, not a plane | 15:08 |
| gothicmindfood | plan | 15:08 |
| gothicmindfood | but, turns out that's the point (I think?) | 15:08 |
| gothicmindfood | :)_ | 15:08 |
| jroll | heh, yeah | 15:08 |
| jroll | it's also hard to not inject the "how do we get there" bits | 15:10 |
| persia | I find that it is easiest to write vision-y prose early in the day, before I'm fully awake, because I'm not yet ready to care about "how do we get there". | 15:11 |
| jroll | ha, I like that | 15:14 |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-December/108662.html | 15:33 |
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