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| murphyslawbbs | hey guys | 00:51 |
|---|---|---|
| murphyslawbbs | so i've been dumped into the testing world recently, given the task of finding out how to do tests against one of our apis. Should i reuse tempest? | 00:52 |
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| gema | murphyslawbbs: it depends on the API, I guess | 11:22 |
| gema | and what kind of testing you are after | 11:22 |
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| murphyslawbbs | the api is a suspend/resume API for Juno | 12:05 |
| murphyslawbbs | gema: right now we just want a proof of concept so that we have a stencil that we can use to create more tests | 12:05 |
| murphyslawbbs | and tests for more apis | 12:06 |
| murphyslawbbs | i was thinking of using something like tempestlib or testr | 12:06 |
| gema | you could use that, I believe, but I am not sure the tempest team would take the tests on | 12:08 |
| gema | if you wanted to contribute them | 12:08 |
| gema | if that is not a problem for you, then tempest should be ok | 12:08 |
| murphyslawbbs | gema: but tempest would require an existing running openstack right? | 12:10 |
| murphyslawbbs | with a ketstone url, etc | 12:10 |
| gema | murphyslawbbs: yep | 12:10 |
| murphyslawbbs | ok thx | 12:10 |
| gema | murphyslawbbs: how many components are involved in the suspend/resume? | 12:10 |
| gema | murphyslawbbs: if I were you I'd make sure I can run tempest on my test environment before moving on with the implementation | 12:12 |
| gema | the right version of tempest, that is | 12:12 |
| gema | I believe if you do git checkout 3 | 12:12 |
| gema | you'd have juno | 12:12 |
| gema | (on the tempest git cloned repo) | 12:14 |
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| murphyslawbbs | gema: there are two components, the api calls on a component called PSC to perform the actual commands | 13:03 |
| murphyslawbbs | thanks for the checkout tip | 13:03 |
| murphyslawbbs | so what time is the meeting, you said 17:00, is that GMT? | 13:03 |
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| gema | murphyslawbbs: UTC | 13:06 |
| gema | murphyslawbbs: I hope that is the same time as before | 13:06 |
| gema | Idid the calculation a bit roughly | 13:06 |
| gema | murphyslawbbs: can you change the invitation to be weekly and at the same time and read as happening on IRC? | 13:08 |
| gema | murphyslawbbs: that invite was quite handy :D | 13:08 |
| murphyslawbbs | hehe ok will do | 13:08 |
| gema | thx! | 13:08 |
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| malini | I might miss today's meeting | 15:44 |
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| gema | hey folks | 16:52 |
| gema | don't worry malini | 16:52 |
| gema | uhmm, she's gone :) | 16:52 |
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| jasonsb | hi gema | 16:58 |
| gema | #startmeeting Tailgate | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jul 2 17:00:04 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gema. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tailgate' | 17:00 |
| gema | hi everyone, can anyone here for today's meeting say something, plz :) | 17:00 |
| gema | o/ | 17:00 |
| jasonsb | morning gema | 17:01 |
| gema | evening :D | 17:01 |
| jasonsb | your a trooper | 17:01 |
| gema | exciting times :D | 17:01 |
| jasonsb | thank you for setting up the meeting bot | 17:01 |
| gema | you are welcome, it was fun | 17:01 |
| gema | shall we wait a couple of mins to give people time to show up if they are going to? | 17:02 |
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| jasonsb | certainly. i was going to ask about hogepodge | 17:02 |
| gema | he said he'd be here | 17:02 |
| jasonsb | i didn't fully grasp your conversation from few days back | 17:03 |
| hogepodge | hi | 17:03 |
| hogepodge | o/ | 17:03 |
| gema | hi hogepodge | 17:03 |
| gema | clee: you around? | 17:03 |
| jasonsb | hogepodge: greetings | 17:03 |
| localloop127 | i'm here. was not paying attention when things started | 17:03 |
| gema | goodio, let's get started then | 17:03 |
| gema | I have a sort of agenda | 17:04 |
| gema | #topic Progress on last week's actions | 17:04 |
| gema | I did the ones assigned to me, bot, sending email to the mailing about the meeting and adding kloudbuster to the test doc | 17:04 |
| gema | #link test strategy doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19N4lZJ5mYkQbkXrtBGntf7C1bWvwt1RKoSU8NerAphQ/edit# | 17:04 |
| gema | spyderdyne is not around | 17:05 |
| gema | so we'll have to postopone asking him about rally | 17:05 |
| clee | gema: kind of! | 17:05 |
| gema | clee: go ahead :D | 17:05 |
| clee | gema: I'm in a dreamhost meeting | 17:05 |
| gema | ah, ok, so half here | 17:05 |
| clee | gema: I emailed dkranz but have yet to receive a reply | 17:05 |
| gema | let's start with the defcore topic next then | 17:05 |
| gema | clee: we'll give you time to wrap up | 17:06 |
| gema | #topic DefCore | 17:06 |
| clee | gema: the DH meeting will probably last longer than this one, but I'll try to pay attention here when I can | 17:06 |
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| gema | ok | 17:06 |
| gema | I had a conversation with hogepodge the other day and I will let him introduce himself and the defcore project | 17:06 |
| gema | hogepodge: thanks for coming | 17:06 |
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| hogepodge | Hi, | 17:07 |
| hogepodge | Defcore is a board-approved process that requires OpenStack clouds to pass a series of API tests as part of our trademark program. | 17:07 |
| hogepodge | It originally came out of clause in the bylaws that stated that OpenStack branded products needed to pass a "faithful implementation of testing standards" (or some name like that), FITS | 17:08 |
| hogepodge | We starting testing clouds against a test suite based on tempest a few months ago. They are non-admin API calls that check basic functionality of Nova, Swift, Cinder, and Keystone (and implicitly Glance and Neutron) | 17:09 |
| hogepodge | We use a tool called Refstack to semi-anonymously collect test results (companies can voluntarily self-identify their results publicly for the Defcore process) | 17:10 |
| hogepodge | The goal of defcore is to promote interoperability across public, hosted, and distributions. | 17:11 |
| gema | hogepodge: could you define interoperability in this context, what do you mean by that? | 17:11 |
| hogepodge | Interoperability would be a stable set of APIs that work consistently across clouds. So an application written for one cloud can work on a second cloud. | 17:12 |
| gema | ok | 17:12 |
| gema | and you also aim at keeping backwards compatibility in the future? | 17:12 |
| gema | or is that out of scope? | 17:12 |
| hogepodge | We still have a ways to go to get true interoperability, but the recently approved process is a good start, and our aim is to spend the next year really nailing down APIs and holding vendor's and devs accountable to making clouds work together. | 17:12 |
| hogepodge | We try to have a lagging process, and are looking for APIs that will be around for a while or have a clear deprecation strategy | 17:13 |
| gema | ack | 17:13 |
| hogepodge | We also allow validation against the latest two approved standards to give vendors wiggle room. | 17:13 |
| gema | jasonsb: do you still have questions? | 17:15 |
| hogepodge | We meet weekly for general committee work, and also are starting up a new capabilities meeting to introduce new tests, with more attention on this cycle being given to images store and networking | 17:15 |
| gema | hogepodge: sound like the capabilities meeting is a good one for us to attend also? | 17:15 |
| hogepodge | We would love for as many members of this group to participate as possible. Defcore is meant to be a community driven process, and the tailgate team seems to have a number of overlapping concerns. The advantage to participating is you get the backing of the board and foundation in the approved test suite, and everyone who sells an OpenStack branded cloud or distro needs to meet that standard. | 17:16 |
| gema | based on our conversation the other day, you said that tempest will keep maintaining any tests that defcore uses for certification, correct? | 17:17 |
| gema | (instead of devolving them to the different projects) | 17:17 |
| jasonsb | gema: good question | 17:18 |
| hogepodge | gema yes, that's what the ptl of the qa team wants. | 17:18 |
| hogepodge | gema we do have a procedure for introducing different test suites if necessary, though | 17:18 |
| gema | hogepodge: do you have a link to that? | 17:18 |
| hogepodge | gema in general, every document is located here: https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/defcore/tree/ | 17:19 |
| gema | ack | 17:19 |
| gema | #link https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/defcore/tree/ | 17:19 |
| gema | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#DefCore_Committee_Meeting | 17:19 |
| hogepodge | Our new schema includes a field for test repositories. https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/defcore/tree/2015.next.json#n43 | 17:20 |
| gema | hogepodge: sounds like your test suites are the right place for a good number of the test cases we were aiming to be adding | 17:20 |
| jasonsb | hogepodge: can you speak to the relationship of your testing vs big tent? | 17:20 |
| jasonsb | looks like a take-it-slow approach, but i was wondering what the overall strategy is | 17:21 |
| hogepodge | jasonsb: We're focusing on what would be controversially called the "core" right now. Compute, block storage, object storage, image repository, and networking. | 17:21 |
| hogepodge | jasonsb: Nothing would preclude new OpenStack Powered programs from branching out to other projects. For example, a hypothetical "OpenStack Powered Database" program might have tests for Trove. | 17:22 |
| hogepodge | jasonsb: but all changes to the projects in the program must be committee proposed and board approved | 17:22 |
| jasonsb | ok, the core has a good home in tempest currently | 17:22 |
| hogepodge | jasonsb: we want to be tied to tempest only for simplicity, but also are open to other test suites if we can't meet our goals with tempest only. | 17:23 |
| gema | hogepodge: so if we wanted to get involved and start contributing , what would that look like? | 17:24 |
| hogepodge | gema: the immediate spot we need help in right now is in determining capabilities for the upcoming proposed standards | 17:24 |
| hogepodge | gema: we also need people to write non-admin api tests to help us fill the gaps in our testing, to add as capabilities | 17:24 |
| gema | hogepodge: for someone like me, that is mainly a "black box tester" of clouds, what is a capability | 17:25 |
| hogepodge | gema: If you have a cloud, we would also love for more people to run refstack-client against it and report on all of the passing tests (this is automated with a client-server model) | 17:25 |
| gema | hogepodge: I can run your tests in a couple of my test clouds, or is it only production clouds that you are after | 17:26 |
| hogepodge | gema: a capability falls into a category of behavior, like "compute instances", and is a specific test that checks for a capability, like "boot image with hostname" | 17:26 |
| hogepodge | gema as many clouds as possible, test or production | 17:26 |
| gema | hogepodge: ok | 17:26 |
| gema | #action gema to submit a few test runs of refstack and get familiar with it | 17:27 |
| hogepodge | We will use the data set (which will be admittedly biased) to give us guidance on what capabilities are commonly in use | 17:27 |
| jasonsb | this sounds like another possible application for our introspection thingy | 17:27 |
| gema | hogepodge: ok, our test clouds are representative of what we deploy for customers anyway | 17:27 |
| jasonsb | so the test results can be supplied along with a description | 17:28 |
| hogepodge | gema: if you have a valid tempest configuration refstack should be easy. It only runs tempest.api.* tests | 17:28 |
| gema | hogepodge: I have that for icehouse | 17:28 |
| gema | hogepodge: I am struggling for kilo, I was going to discuss that later | 17:28 |
| hogepodge | jasonsb: No, it just sends an anonymous cloud id. | 17:28 |
| jasonsb | hogepodge: ok | 17:29 |
| hogepodge | jasonsb: along with a list of all tests that passed (skip and fail results are not reported). It's just a json data structure with no other output from the subunit output or logs | 17:29 |
| hogepodge | jasonsb: we will have a user auth system in place soon, though, to help with self-identification | 17:30 |
| jasonsb | hogepodge: understood. | 17:30 |
| gema | hogepodge: sounds like we should be collaborating and see where we go from there, I cannot talk for the rest of the folks in our group but I will probably start a thread on the mailing | 17:31 |
| gema | hogepodge: are you receiving emails? | 17:31 |
| jasonsb | gema: agreed. | 17:31 |
| hogepodge | gema yes | 17:32 |
| gema | hogepodge: good, we'll do that then, see if we can get some traction with the others as well | 17:32 |
| gema | hogepodge: thanks for the information | 17:32 |
| gema | moving to the next topic then | 17:33 |
| jasonsb | hogepodge: one more question | 17:33 |
| jasonsb | if its ok | 17:33 |
| gema | sure go for it | 17:33 |
| hogepodge | that's great, thanks. Your group is an important part of the userbase we want in helping us figure out how to best test clouds. We have a mailing list, defcore-committee, that's had lots of active discussion #link http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/defcore-committee | 17:33 |
| jasonsb | if you have these test results in place, how do you envision it being used in practice? | 17:33 |
| jasonsb | by somebody who owns an application | 17:33 |
| hogepodge | jasonsb: we working up a way to pair API calls with tests | 17:34 |
| jasonsb | they probably need to understand if their application fits inside defcore i would imagine | 17:34 |
| hogepodge | jasonsb: so if an app dev wants to know if their app is interoperable, they should be able to check the test calls to see if they are supported by a cloud. | 17:34 |
| hogepodge | whether they are on the defcore list or not | 17:34 |
| jasonsb | i see | 17:35 |
| jasonsb | that sounds quite interesting | 17:35 |
| hogepodge | jasonsb: we're actively pairing tests to api right now #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/194737/ | 17:35 |
| hogepodge | one tricky bit is api calls can change depending on cloud config | 17:36 |
| hogepodge | nova-net vs the n-permutations of neutron, glance v1/v2, etc | 17:36 |
| jasonsb | yes indeed | 17:36 |
| jasonsb | and some clients are very slow to update to new api's | 17:37 |
| jasonsb | (horizon) | 17:37 |
| gema | hogepodge: that's why coverage doesn't really get you that far in terms of interop and system wide testing | 17:37 |
| hogepodge | horizon is working on glance v2 right now | 17:37 |
| hogepodge | gema: it's a hard problem, indeed. :-( | 17:37 |
| gema | hogepodge: it's a fascinating problem | 17:37 |
| jasonsb | i wonder if we can work together to fix that | 17:38 |
| gema | specially at the scale of openstack :D | 17:38 |
| hogepodge | Down the line we may update refstack client to report a test: api dictionary | 17:38 |
| jasonsb | audit somethign something | 17:38 |
| gema | hogepodge: do you guys have a say in the cyclomatic complexity of calls? i.e. how many levels are too many? | 17:39 |
| hogepodge | gema: no, we tend to use whatever the devs have provided | 17:39 |
| gema | ok | 17:39 |
| jasonsb | interesting stuff. | 17:40 |
| jasonsb | gema: you had next topic? | 17:40 |
| gema | yep | 17:40 |
| hogepodge | gema: We have a criteria for admitting a test as required: #link https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/defcore/tree/doc/source/process/CoreCriteria.rst | 17:40 |
| hogepodge | thanks everyone for you time | 17:40 |
| gema | hogepodge: cool, I will be reading through all of it and asking questions | 17:40 |
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| gema | hogepodge: thank you for your time, this has been very educating :D | 17:41 |
| gema | #topic Inspector Gadget (automatic service discovery) | 17:41 |
| gema | clee: you around? you were going to talk to dkranz about whether redhat were able to contribute | 17:41 |
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| gema | clee: did you? | 17:41 |
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| gema | jasonsb: he seems busy, do you have anything on this topic? | 17:42 |
| malini | o/ | 17:42 |
| gema | malini: :D | 17:42 |
| malini | better late than never :D | 17:43 |
| jasonsb | i dont have anything at moment | 17:43 |
| gema | does anyone have any update on the discovery services? | 17:43 |
| gema | coolio, that was quick :D | 17:43 |
| gema | #topic Open Discussion | 17:43 |
| gema | do you guys have any other topic to discuss? | 17:44 |
| malini | did we already figure out the chair for next week? | 17:44 |
| gema | malini: not there yet | 17:44 |
| gema | I was going to bring up the issue of kilo not having a stable version of tempest | 17:44 |
| gema | #link http://osdir.com/ml/openstack-dev/2015-05/msg01073.html | 17:45 |
| clee | gema: I emailed him but got no reply | 17:45 |
| gema | clee: ok | 17:45 |
| clee | and he *was* idling in here, but it looks like he's gone now | 17:45 |
| gema | clee: ok, I will keep the action there for next week then | 17:45 |
| * clee nods | 17:45 | |
| gema | #action clee ask dkranz if redhat is able to contribute to the inspector gadget concept | 17:45 |
| gema | so am I the only one with issues testing kilo with a stable version of tempest? | 17:46 |
| malini | we had somebody else from redhat here | 17:46 |
| malini | mwagner ? | 17:46 |
| malini | gema: probably because nobody else ran tht? | 17:46 |
| jasonsb | i am curious about the tooling redhat uses | 17:46 |
| jasonsb | and what they might be willing to contribute to tailgate | 17:46 |
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| gema | malini: indeed | 17:47 |
| gema | jasonsb: you can add it to next week's agenda and bring it up | 17:47 |
| gema | see if they attend the meeting | 17:47 |
| jasonsb | gema: ok | 17:47 |
| malini | mwagner_lap: will you have any info on tht? | 17:47 |
| gema | malini: he's not present | 17:48 |
| gema | hasn't said anything yet :D | 17:48 |
| malini | maybe _lap means something | 17:48 |
| gema | alright, any other topic? | 17:48 |
| malini | gema: I am curious abt the kilo tempest | 17:48 |
| gema | malini: what do you want to know? | 17:49 |
| malini | is it something we can start to help fix? | 17:49 |
| gema | malini: I wanted to talk to matthew and ask him | 17:49 |
| gema | malini: because what he said in that email is that there is not supposed to be a stable version of tempest | 17:49 |
| malini | hmm…I don't understand that | 17:49 |
| gema | malini: but if we are going to use tempest to validate stable versions of clouds, we kind of need a stable version of the test suite as well | 17:49 |
| malini | exactly | 17:50 |
| gema | malini: they tag old version of tempest on a day | 17:50 |
| gema | and they don't really maintain them | 17:50 |
| gema | they move on with the development | 17:50 |
| gema | that's how I understand it anyway | 17:50 |
| gema | and that's why I wanted to talk to him | 17:50 |
| gema | we'll have to talk to him and then decide | 17:51 |
| malini | thx for the info gema | 17:51 |
| gema | maybe if they don't want to maintain stable versions we should do that | 17:51 |
| gema | but that is a big commitment | 17:51 |
| malini | Openstack supports the past two releases -rt? | 17:52 |
| gema | and by maintain I don't mean adding new tests, just keeping the ones there running should be enough | 17:52 |
| gema | malini: I think so | 17:52 |
| jasonsb | this sounds liek a challenge for defcore | 17:52 |
| gema | yet in his email he says: Tempest does not have a stable branch like other openstack projects. For more | 17:52 |
| gema | info about that see: | 17:52 |
| gema | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/qa-specs/specs/implemented/branchless-tempest.html | 17:52 |
| jasonsb | how to give a soft-landing to people who want to test clouds but don't do it often enough to keep up with temptest | 17:53 |
| gema | jasonsb: it's not about often | 17:53 |
| gema | jasonsb: the tests move on with the development | 17:53 |
| jasonsb | true true | 17:53 |
| gema | if you don't have a stable version that goes with a particular release | 17:53 |
| gema | you are not running the kilo tests | 17:53 |
| gema | but something else | 17:53 |
| gema | liberty tests against kilo | 17:53 |
| gema | sort of | 17:53 |
| gema | #action gema to talk to matthew about tempest kilo and report back | 17:54 |
| gema | that's all I had | 17:54 |
| gema | let's change topic if you guys have nothing else | 17:54 |
| gema | #topic Next Week Meeting | 17:54 |
| jasonsb | i have one question | 17:54 |
| gema | jasonsb: ok | 17:55 |
| jasonsb | but its going to sound pretty noob | 17:55 |
| gema | you have 1 min | 17:55 |
| gema | make it quick | 17:55 |
| jasonsb | i was wondering if somebody could give a walkthrough of the rackspace testing | 17:55 |
| malini | sure we can | 17:55 |
| jasonsb | in general i was thinking we should start to focus on where to start for a core set of tests | 17:55 |
| gema | malini: wanna do that next meeting? | 17:55 |
| jasonsb | and i thought maybe a walkthrough of rackspace or canonical would be good place to start? | 17:56 |
| malini | sure - I also want sam to be here for tht | 17:56 |
| gema | #action malini to organise for a walkthrough of the rackspace testing | 17:56 |
| malini | I will confirm with sam before committing to the next meeting | 17:56 |
| gema | malini: do it for whenever sam can make it | 17:56 |
| jasonsb | yay | 17:56 |
| gema | we can have that topic on that week | 17:56 |
| jasonsb | thnx | 17:56 |
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| malini | tht is infact a good idea | 17:57 |
| gema | now, I won't be here next week | 17:57 |
| malini | I guess each of us can walk thru how we test | 17:57 |
| gema | any volunteers for chair? | 17:57 |
| gema | malini: yep, sounds good | 17:57 |
| malini | I am tentative next week - but will try to be here | 17:57 |
| gema | jasonsb: will you be here for sure? | 17:57 |
| murphyslawbbs | sorry im so late :). I will resend invite for next week | 17:58 |
| jasonsb | yes | 17:58 |
| gema | jasonsb: wanna chair? | 17:58 |
| jasonsb | week after i'm out though | 17:58 |
| jasonsb | ok | 17:58 |
| malini | I can do week after tht | 17:58 |
| gema | #action jasonb to chair on July 9th | 17:58 |
| gema | #action malini to chair on July 16 | 17:58 |
| gema | sounds like we are done | 17:59 |
| gema | #endmeeting | 17:59 |
| jasonsb | good day all | 17:59 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jul 2 17:59:36 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tailgate/2015/tailgate.2015-07-02-17.00.html | 17:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tailgate/2015/tailgate.2015-07-02-17.00.txt | 17:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tailgate/2015/tailgate.2015-07-02-17.00.log.html | 17:59 |
| gema | thank you everyone | 18:00 |
| gema | it was a good meeting | 18:00 |
| gema | I will send the link to the logs tomorrow | 18:00 |
| gema | to the mailing | 18:00 |
| jasonsb | snds gd | 18:00 |
| jasonsb | thank you for your efforts :) | 18:00 |
| gema | np! | 18:00 |
| gema | EOD for me now | 18:00 |
| gema | night! | 18:00 |
| malini | good night gema :) | 18:01 |
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