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| openstackgerrit | Andreas Jaeger proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Update docs: It's bindep.txt now https://review.openstack.org/489166 | 10:23 |
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| dtantsur | hi folks! can someone please clarify my doubts on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/482759/ (see the last comment)? | 11:10 |
| cdent | such a troublemaker dtantsur ;) | 11:15 |
| dtantsur | \o/ | 11:15 |
| dtantsur | just imagine how boring it could be ;) | 11:16 |
| cdent | I would guess it comes down to the extent of the application of that tag. I would assume it matters for anything "users" see. And Ironic bends those definitions too, so... ? | 11:18 |
| mugsie | well, IPA being internal should be excluded IMHO (its closer to an oslo.messaging RPCAPI than a HTTP API isn't it?). Inspector should come under it - it is a public API provided by the project | 11:18 |
| mugsie | unless we need to revisit how tags are applied :P | 11:19 |
| dtantsur | this is my feeling too | 11:19 |
| dtantsur | meaning, we're not quite ready, and don't have a clear ETA when we are going to be | 11:19 |
| cdent | sounds right to me | 11:19 |
| cdent | also the part where you don't actually like the tag, so... | 11:20 |
| dtantsur | it does not *really* matter what I feel about the tag | 11:20 |
| dtantsur | if we were to apply for it, I'd prefer the team to review and vote, rather than my personal decisions be applied | 11:20 |
| dtantsur | I may even vote "for" it, despite not liking the whole microversioning | 11:21 |
| cdent | I was using "you" as a proxy for the ironic team in general | 11:21 |
| dtantsur | As a team, we have mixed feelings. I would expect the consensus to be to accept the tag, so not with 100% "pro" vote :) | 11:22 |
| cdent | But maybe opportunistically: I'm reluctant to see the tag applied to anything (except maybe nova) until people really stop to think about what it means and have a broader think about what and who tags are for. | 11:22 |
| dtantsur | Yeah, this is also the part of the question. *Who* is it for, and *what* does it tell them? | 11:22 |
| dtantsur | cdent: should I move the summary of this discussion to the patch? | 11:25 |
| cdent | yeah, probably. you can link to it: http://p.anticdent.org/2CHa | 11:25 |
| dtantsur | done | 11:31 |
| cdent | thanks | 11:33 |
| cdent | And thanks for not blandly accepting the tag when you weren't sure it was right. Doing so would have continued the trend of tags not mattering much. | 11:34 |
| dtantsur | no prob :) | 11:34 |
| fungi | it does strike me as odd for a team-level tag when it's an assertion about specific software (would make more sense applied to a deliverable) | 12:51 |
| fungi | and, indeed, it is only about specific deliverables (the "ironic" deliverable with repo openstack/ironic and the "nova" deliverable with repo openstack/nova) | 12:53 |
| cdent | fungi: I think we've not fully adapted everywhere to the idea that teams often have multiple deliverables | 12:53 |
| cdent | nor the idea that some _repos_ can have multipe deliverables (for example apis) | 12:53 |
| cdent | (placement being a pain for the docs migration at the moment) | 12:54 |
| fungi | looking at the diff, it's not being applied to teams or to all deliverables for those teams, just to those two specific deliverables/source repositories | 12:54 |
| cdent | fungi: do you think that users of tags will see that distinction? (again, still unclear on who the users of tags are) | 12:55 |
| fungi | but yeah, multiple services per repo with different apis is a bit of a corner case in openstack which explains why mtreinish might have just assumed the ironic api for that repo | 12:55 |
| fungi | users of tags were mainly supposed to be people deciding whether or not to run the software in their environments | 12:56 |
| fungi | so for example i as a deployer/operator might decide not to use ironic because it doesn't declare api interoperability support, but go ahead with my plans to include nova in my environment because it does | 12:57 |
| fungi | anyway, in this case dtantsur and by extension the ironic team seem to be concerned that applying this tag to the ironic team would make a too-vague statement (with which i agree) about ironic-inspector and ironic-python-agent, but it's actually only applied to the ironic _deliverable_ and so doesn't make any statement about the others (which are in their own git repositories within separate | 13:01 |
| fungi | deliverables) | 13:01 |
| fungi | at least according to the yaml file there | 13:01 |
| dtantsur | re deployers making choices based on tags: this is why IMO we should be clearer what tags mean | 13:02 |
| dtantsur | "this software supports interoperability" is a horrible way to characterize this particular one | 13:03 |
| dtantsur | I guess the way it's put "End users of a given service need to have confidence that the API they are using and relying on won’t break when they upgrade a cloud or start using their code on a new OpenStack cloud. This tag asserts that a service adheres to this principle and follows the requirements to ensure this." | 13:05 |
| dtantsur | actually presses me into accepting this tag, otherwise "your service can break API!!1" | 13:06 |
| dtantsur | anyway, thanks for clarification fungi | 13:06 |
| fungi | you're welcome | 13:06 |
| fungi | i don't personally have a strong opinion on whether that tag is useful for its intended purpose since i'm not part of the target audience; i can only really repeat the intent as it has been explained in the past | 13:07 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/project-team-guide master: Update docs: It's bindep.txt now https://review.openstack.org/489166 | 13:25 |
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| flaper87 | hey folks, I'll be on PTO for the rest of the week (in case you need me for anything) | 16:03 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : thanks for the heads-up | 16:04 |
| cdent | flaper87: I need some of your pto? | 16:08 |
| * EmilienM thinks flaper87 is always on PTO | 16:21 | |
| fungi | i don't actually need any extra time off, i just need to get better about staying away from the computer when i have decided that i'm off (for example... now) | 16:44 |
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| cdent | I think no matter how much I have, because it is a scarce resource I habitually horde it. | 16:49 |
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| dhellmann | fungi : I thought I saw that your area was being evacuated because a power outage or something. Is that just the tourists? | 17:41 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Update feature branch creation details https://review.openstack.org/489293 | 18:21 |
| dims | fungi : y'all ok? (reading news on evac after seeing doug's note above) | 18:25 |
| smcginnis | The lack of response is a little concerning. I hope things are OK. | 18:32 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Update feature branch creation details https://review.openstack.org/489293 | 19:12 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Update feature branch creation details https://review.openstack.org/489293 | 19:36 |
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| dhellmann | dims, smcginnis : that news was from the weekend, and he's been on and off since then | 20:09 |
| smcginnis | I thought I saw him around earlier. | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | yeah, he was | 20:09 |
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