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| fungi | office hour in t-minus 60 seconds | 14:59 |
|---|---|---|
| fungi | brace for impact! | 14:59 |
| fungi | and so it begins | 15:00 |
| EmilienM | :) | 15:00 |
| smcginnis | o/ | 15:00 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 15:04 |
| ttx | o/ | 15:05 |
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| cdent | oh dear | 15:10 |
| fungi | dims: was http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-August/120544.html what you had in mind when you suggested posting lists of who had or did not have matching foundation memberships? | 15:12 |
| dims | fungi : yep i checked it out this morning. looks good! | 15:12 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 15:14 |
| fungi | i had to compress them to make it past moderation queues. we have a lot of contributors! | 15:14 |
| dhellmann | I was a bit concerned with the number of long-term folks I recognized from the non-members list :-( | 15:14 |
| fungi | so many names they barely fit under the 40k moderation limit when compressed with gzip -9 | 15:14 |
| fungi | dhellmann: yep, i expect some changed employers/e-mail addresses but never updated their foundation memberships, others stopped voting in board elections at some point and let their memberships lapse | 15:15 |
| fungi | some also simply may not care about whether they get to vote in things | 15:15 |
| dhellmann | true | 15:16 |
| fungi | i expect that number to only increase when we stop forcing new contributors to sign up for foundation individual memberships | 15:16 |
| dhellmann | was it a bylaws rule that says only foundation members can vote in PTL & TC elections? | 15:17 |
| fungi | on the other hand, it may mean that our voter turn-out rates are actually better than we thought, because people who don't care about getting to vote may not sign up for foundation membership or let their older memberships lapse | 15:17 |
| dhellmann | or is that part of the TC charter? | 15:17 |
| fungi | you'll find the relevant citations in http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-July/119786.html | 15:18 |
| ttx | it was a bylaws thing | 15:18 |
| fungi | "technical committee member policy" which is an addendum/appendix to the bylaws of the openstack foundation | 15:19 |
| ttx | "Him who thee membership had thou shalt deign a vote" or something | 15:19 |
| * ttx can't read bylaws english | 15:19 | |
| fungi | so whether you consider that "part of the bylaws" or not, i dunno | 15:20 |
| dhellmann | well, it's not part of the charter, so it's hard to change, and that was the real question | 15:20 |
| dhellmann | not that I object necessarily to asking people to indicate that they are interested in voting by joining the foundation, I guess | 15:21 |
| fungi | ttx: well, there's also a very-long-standing typo at the beginning of 3.b.i which doesn't help matters where understanding is concerned | 15:21 |
| fungi | i keep pestering people to try and get it corrected | 15:21 |
| fungi | but it never seems to get prioritized | 15:21 |
| fungi | dhellmann: fwiw, it's _also_ mentioned in the tc charter (i link that in the e-mail there as well) | 15:22 |
| fungi | but yes, we'd need to be able to change both | 15:22 |
| dhellmann | yeah, it's just redundant to say it in the charter | 15:22 |
| fungi | granted, the apc definition we could probably change if we wanted. that's just something "we" (the community, not foundation legal representation) made up | 15:23 |
| ttx | dhellmann: the reason why we have it in the charter is that the language in the bylaws in incomprehensible | 15:23 |
| ttx | so we just said teh same in plain english | 15:23 |
| fungi | atc is harder to change though, and keeping apc a subset of atc is helpful to avoid confusion | 15:23 |
| dhellmann | hmm, I'm reading this and seeing that TC members need to be foundation members, but not that voters do, unless using "Individual Member" implies that? | 15:25 |
| fungi | the whole section is "determination of active technical contributor" | 15:26 |
| dhellmann | maybe app[4]3bi should read "An ATC is an Individual Member" rather than "An Individual Member is an ATC" | 15:26 |
| fungi | dhellmann: correct. that's the typo i keep pinging people about every few months but nobody ever feels moved to fix | 15:26 |
| dhellmann | because the way that reads now it sounds like you have to be ATC to join the foundation :-) | 15:26 |
| fungi | or even tell me who has the authority tofix it | 15:26 |
| dhellmann | which I also don't necessarily object to, but it's probably not realistic | 15:27 |
| dhellmann | fungi : maybe we can put that on the agenda for the bod/tc/uc meeting in denver | 15:27 |
| fungi | it could be a _very_ brief topic! | 15:29 |
| fungi | "we need to swap a couple words around in an appendix to the bylaws" | 15:29 |
| fungi | from what i'm told, because it's an appendix it shouldn't require a vote of the foundation membership to fix it | 15:29 |
| ttx | My last discussion about it was rather Kafakaesque | 15:29 |
| dhellmann | fungi : it seems like a typo shouldn't require a vote either, but IANAL | 15:30 |
| dhellmann | maybe it's enough work to do that it's not worth it | 15:30 |
| fungi | idwtbal | 15:30 |
| dhellmann | fungi : has anyone objected to this change? | 15:35 |
| fungi | dhellmann: nobody so far, at least | 15:35 |
| dhellmann | good | 15:35 |
| fungi | especially since it allows us to simplify new contributor onboarding substantially | 15:36 |
| fungi | and also is holding us up from being able to upgrade gerrit | 15:36 |
| dhellmann | oh, yes, good point | 15:36 |
| fungi | and on top of that, there's the argument that until the foundation added an api to verify members a few months ago, we had an excuse for not strictly checking that part of our policy | 15:36 |
| fungi | if we don't do it now, we could be seen as not meeting due diligence | 15:37 |
| fungi | separately, i have a change in progress to finally start counting contributions from retired deliverables in generating voter rolls | 15:49 |
| fungi | less relevant to ptl elections, but would love to have that in place before tc elections | 15:49 |
| fungi | the legacy.yaml was inconsistent (i expect because we had nothing parsing it so far) and somewhat incompatible with the structure in projects.yaml, but https://review.openstack.org/488505 aims to clean that up | 15:51 |
| dhellmann | it seems like that should fall under our house rules and not need a full vote, since it's just data cleanup | 15:52 |
| smcginnis | ++ | 15:52 |
| fungi | probably so... it's just rearranging the deck chairs, not replacing them | 15:53 |
| dhellmann | it would be good to add a linter check to that file at some point | 15:55 |
| dhellmann | that shouldn't block this update, though | 15:55 |
| ttx | happy to approve it now if that helps | 15:55 |
| ttx | (under the typo/code rule) | 15:56 |
| ttx | fungi: ^ | 15:56 |
| fungi | ttx: sounds great to me, thanks | 15:57 |
| fungi | dhellmann: i agree, we could probably just use one for both files even | 15:58 |
| fungi | since their structures are the same | 15:58 |
| dhellmann | or at least should be :-) | 16:03 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Normalize deliverables arrays in legacy.yaml https://review.openstack.org/488505 | 16:04 |
| fungi | s/should/will soon/ ! | 16:04 |
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