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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Replace Chinese quotes to English quotes https://review.openstack.org/541197 | 10:16 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Rename goals/template.txt to .rst https://review.openstack.org/541496 | 10:17 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Add devstack-plugin-container to QA team https://review.openstack.org/540906 | 15:14 |
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| * persia decides not to publish an article entitled "how to collude with your business partners and subvert the openstack bureaucracy", but a recent conversation has suggested that some of the concepts that might be in such an article may be useful for discussion towards enhancing some of the developer and developer-sponsor onboarding guides, either at some office hours, or at the PTG. | 19:22 | |
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| * fungi is entirely in favor of subverting bureaucracy if it leads to better free software | 19:29 | |
| fungi | peace, love and free software, man | 19:30 |
| persia | Technically, we have very little bureaucracy, as very few of our roles are appointed (vs elected), but the perception is certainly present. | 19:30 |
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| dims | w00t fungi | 20:12 |
| dmsimard | persia: the topic of OpenStack summit presentation voting came up recently, I reminded them that we were once considering removing them entirely and why it was a problem | 20:19 |
| persia | I'm still not delighted with the implementation, but it is better than it has been. But I don't like any process that I can use to unfair advantage (which I haven't done for OpenStack Summit speaker selection since the last time we were in Vancouver, but still) | 20:20 |
| dmsimard | Removing the direct links to presentations for voting had the awkward side effect of people continuing to advertise in different media/channels but with like "search for X and vote for me!" | 20:21 |
| persia | Yep. When using voting, one needs to provide media for political statement, or one ends up with segmented audiences. | 20:22 |
| fungi | sure, technical solutions to social problems rarely work completely | 20:22 |
| persia | Also, democracy rarely works completely. My preferred model for talk selection is elected "track chairs", each of whom curates a track based on their expertise. Using "track committees" with 3 or more members instead of a single official makes it harder to subvert (and leads to better tracks). | 20:24 |
| fungi | i still think we need to drop the session voting altogether. the times i was a track chair the voting results rarely provided useful insights | 20:24 |
| dmsimard | Are track chairs elected right now ? or appointed ? I guess I'm not familiar with the way it works behind the scenes. | 20:25 |
| cmurphy | agreed, the votes rarely make a difference in selection | 20:25 |
| fungi | i'd be in favor of voting for track chairs instead | 20:25 |
| fungi | dmsimard: appointed volunteers | 20:25 |
| persia | dmsimard: Appointed, via a process that is subject to adjustment by interested parties. | 20:26 |
| fungi | the foundation attempts to balance chairs across different roles and demographics for some semblance of representative/diverse opinions | 20:26 |
| cmurphy | i don't think i'd be in favor of voting for track chairs, it would be easy to stuff the ballots there | 20:26 |
| fungi | but to a great extent the track chair selection is determined by who volunteers to do the work | 20:26 |
| fungi | cmurphy: yeah, it does become harder to ensure a balanced representation | 20:27 |
| persia | A technical solution that I have seen work for smaller groups is to give attendees a massive menu with "I would attend" indications. Then calculate an optimal schedule so that the most people can attend the most talks they want with the least conflicts. The problems with that model are 1) people lie about attendance, 2) the computation is difficult, 3) events are paid for by sponsors who like to have influence | 20:27 |
| dmsimard | persia: I think that's the approach we've had in past summits.. like a scale from 1 to 5, 5 being "I would attend this for sure" | 20:28 |
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| fungi | but to a great extent the event organizers have a feel for who will be in attendance and the goal is to find people who will pick the right mix of content for the attendee demographics | 20:28 |
| persia | dmsimard: A scale prohibits a scheduling algorithm. | 20:28 |
| dmsimard | persia: right -- it has to be binary, and even that isn't perfect because of your #1. As a meetup organizer, ordering the right amount of pizzas based on the amount of signed up folks is quite challenging :) | 20:29 |
| dmsimard | Sometimes it can be as bad as 50% no show | 20:29 |
| persia | dmsimard: Some conferences embed RFID tags in badges and sensors at doors, and then use the results to decide whether to trust people next time. Only works for communities with significant repeat attendees though. | 20:30 |
| dmsimard | I suppose for paid conferences the rate is not that high, though | 20:30 |
| dmsimard | persia: interesting logistics there :) | 20:30 |
| fungi | the challenge can be similar though. this is part of the reason the registration rates increase over the registration period | 20:30 |
| persia | Paid conferences mean people get badges. This has very little correlation with talk attendance. Lots of folk pay for conferences to be able to be in the halls, or to have an excuse to be in the city and meet someone else in a hotel room for 20 minutes. | 20:31 |
| fungi | incentive to register early, since more registrants early allows for more accurate content and planning | 20:31 |
| persia | What incentive matters though? There are lots of price-insensitive folk who attend paid conferences, especially business-focused conferences. | 20:32 |
| persia | Given the cost of travel + 1 week FTE + lodging, the difference between $0 and $2000 is often not even considered. | 20:32 |
| dmsimard | No real incentive other than prices, flight, early-bird and hotel availability etc | 20:32 |
| persia | Prices really don't matter except for individual developers. | 20:33 |
| fungi | yep. the early bird pricing model is just one more tool to try and get some early demographic info, on the assumption that some information is better than none | 20:33 |
| fungi | i agree it's still skewed and i'm sure they take that into account | 20:34 |
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