| smcginnis | It appears 384 participated in the election, if I read those results right. | 00:10 |
|---|---|---|
| diablo_rojo | smcginnis, correct | 00:11 |
| diablo_rojo | Congrats ttx, cdent, smcginnis, dims, zaneb, mugsie and mnaser :) | 00:12 |
| dims | thanks diablo_rojo | 00:12 |
| diablo_rojo | :) | 00:13 |
| smcginnis | Thanks diablo_rojo. Congratulations dims and others. | 00:13 |
| dims | and thanks to zhipeng, ricolin and gongysh for stepping up! | 00:14 |
| diablo_rojo | dims, +2! | 00:14 |
| mnaser | thank you diablo_rojo :) and yeah, took me two times so i'd love to see those stepping up propose themselves next time around as well | 00:16 |
| diablo_rojo | Just cause you don't win the first, second or whatever time you run, doesn't mean there isn't always next time :) | 00:17 |
| dims | ++ mnaser diablo_rojo | 00:17 |
| EmilienM | yeah congrats to the new folks | 00:18 |
| EmilienM | I'm glad we have fresh names :) | 00:18 |
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| pabelanger | ++ | 01:17 |
| pabelanger | congrats to all | 01:17 |
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| fungi | welcome new volunteers! | 02:23 |
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| openstackgerrit | Jeffrey Zhang proposed openstack/governance master: Retire kolla-kubernetes project https://review.openstack.org/565385 | 02:54 |
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| ttx | yay fresh blood | 05:46 |
| ttx | I'll be in the air during the TC office hour | 05:49 |
| ttx | mnaser: you should subscribe to openstack-tc mailing-list, so that I whitelist you to post there | 05:50 |
| ttx | http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-tc | 05:50 |
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| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: Members update following Apr 2018 election https://review.openstack.org/565432 | 06:00 |
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| ttx | Next step 1 is to approve ^ | 06:12 |
| ttx | Then next step 2 is to select a chair. I sent http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2018-May/001503.html to explain process | 06:13 |
| ttx | Let me know if you have questions | 06:13 |
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| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/governance master: Add Scientific Computing constellation https://review.openstack.org/565466 | 08:50 |
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| cdent | did no one raise the tc-members clarion | 09:09 |
| cdent | congrats and welcome to the new folk | 09:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 on the new folks | 09:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | now I am not on the TC, I finally got the constellation review up I had promised in dublin | 09:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | its no where near finished, but its a start | 09:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | hoping to get that discussed at the scientific sig later | 09:16 |
| cdent | yay, constellations! | 09:16 |
| smcginnis | Great to see that! | 09:18 |
| * cdent shakes head at smcginnis | 09:20 | |
| cdent | the cows have already been milked, you could have slept in | 09:20 |
| smcginnis | What did I do now? | 09:20 |
| smcginnis | Ah | 09:20 |
| smcginnis | I'm actually in Copenhagen for Kubecon, so I've been awake for hours already. | 09:21 |
| * cdent doesn't seem to travel enough for a TC member | 09:23 | |
| cdent | I'm going to have to resign | 09:23 |
| smcginnis | Hah, that's probably a good thing you don't. | 09:23 |
| smcginnis | Someone's gotta keep the lights on. ;) | 09:24 |
| * johnthetubaguy passes cdent any spare light bulbs he has | 09:24 | |
| cdent | I'm on holiday this week too ("I'm not even supposed to be here"), I just checked in to congratulate new folk and everybody is off caring about k8s ;) | 09:25 |
| * johnthetubaguy tuts at cdent | 09:26 | |
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| cdent | :D | 09:26 |
| smcginnis | You're not doing the holiday thing right. :P | 09:26 |
| cdent | I'm waiting to pick up my brother from the airport | 09:26 |
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| smcginnis | Nice! | 09:27 |
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| * cdent goes back to holidaying | 09:50 | |
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| dims | johnthetubaguy : thanks! | 10:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | dims: no worries, trying to keep that moving, its a start at least! | 10:45 |
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| TheJulia | Welcome new members! | 11:38 |
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| mugsie | o/ | 12:10 |
| dims | o/ | 12:15 |
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| dims | mugsie : need me or anyone else to get you started? ( i really don't think so! :) | 12:16 |
| jroll | congrats to the winners! \o/ for new people | 12:17 |
| mugsie | I think I am OK for now :) pretty much do what I was doing before, I just have an extra Roll Call Vote now :D | 12:17 |
| dims | exactly :) | 12:17 |
| dims | mnaser : zaneb : same question to you all too | 12:18 |
| mnaser | dims: i'll do my homework and ask questions, thank you! | 12:19 |
| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: Doug Hellmann nomination for Chair https://review.openstack.org/565488 | 12:19 |
| dims | dhellmann : w00t! | 12:19 |
| mugsie | dhellmann: nice and quick off the marks :) | 12:19 |
| dhellmann | mugsie, dims :-) | 12:19 |
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| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : I wonder if constellations would be more discoverable if they were on the docs site rather than the governance site | 13:09 |
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| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: good point, it probably should end up there, somehow linked via project navigator | 13:10 |
| dhellmann | I'm not sure the best way to add a new rst-based section to that site right now | 13:11 |
| dhellmann | the openstack-manuals repo is a bit of a kludge | 13:11 |
| dhellmann | maybe a new repo, published to docs.openstack.org/constellations? | 13:11 |
| dhellmann | and then we can link to it from $everywhere | 13:11 |
| zaneb | o/ | 13:12 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : I can help set up that repo, if you like | 13:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: docs.openstack.org/constellations with a new repo makes sense, help setting that up would be great | 13:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guess I worry about long term ownership, that would be the TC? | 13:15 |
| dhellmann | a new repo also lets us build a new team | 13:16 |
| dhellmann | I'll leave a comment about the fact that we're going to move this on the review for now and put that repo on my todo list | 13:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, sounds good | 13:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | it does make more sense as something TC helps start, rather than something the TC owns | 13:17 |
| dhellmann | right | 13:21 |
| dhellmann | maybe the docs team would "own" it? | 13:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | seems a good first choice, looking at their current list, although feels bad forcing it on them (they may want it) | 13:23 |
| dhellmann | yeah, we would ask first, of course | 13:31 |
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| dims | we can just create the repo unofficially and get started? once we have some stuff in there then we can figure out ownership? separate repo will give us many options down the line | 13:39 |
| mnaser | i agree; the repo can be adopted by governance later at anytime in it's early stages to help quickly iterate on it | 13:42 |
| dhellmann | dims, mnaser : yes, that's the plan I outlined in the commit message asking for the new repo | 13:45 |
| ttx | o/ | 13:48 |
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| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: Retire kolla-kubernetes project https://review.openstack.org/565385 | 13:51 |
| ttx | mnaser: OK I cleared the moderation bit on your openstack-tc subscription, you're clear to directly post there now | 13:52 |
| ttx | Everyone else I did earlier | 13:52 |
| mnaser | ttx: thank you | 13:52 |
| mugsie | ttx: thanks :) | 13:52 |
| dims | ++ dhellmann thanx | 13:53 |
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| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : it seems we have to sort out the repo ownership before we can add the publishing job | 13:57 |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: should the TC own it for now, and move it later? feels like a forum session | 13:58 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : maybe you can drive that? talk to pkovar and the docs team? a ML thread might be a good way to go, since we might find some other recruits for the review team | 13:58 |
| dhellmann | meh, let's just get a decision made | 13:58 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, we should try | 13:58 |
| dhellmann | I think it should either be the docs team or a completely separate team, either way including the TC in the reviewer list | 13:59 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, that makes sense I think | 13:59 |
| dhellmann | I don't want your momentum to stall out by making you wait 3 weeks for a discussion over something that's easy to adjust as we go | 13:59 |
| johnthetubaguy | I can't push this right now, but should be able to push it forward soon | 13:59 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, totally | 13:59 |
| dhellmann | ok, I'll start that thread then | 14:00 |
| johnthetubaguy | thanks, I can pile in on there | 14:00 |
| dhellmann | actually, let me ping pkovar first | 14:00 |
| dhellmann | ah, he's not online, | 14:00 |
| dhellmann | probably may day | 14:00 |
| dhellmann | so thread it is | 14:00 |
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| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-May/130068.html | 14:08 |
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| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: awesome, thank you! | 14:56 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Members update following Apr 2018 election https://review.openstack.org/565432 | 15:18 |
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| openstackgerrit | Eric Brown proposed openstack/governance master: Remove Bandit from the Governance Repository https://review.openstack.org/565538 | 17:08 |
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| dhellmann | tc-members: I'm building some tools to collect some information about which companies are contributing to which initiatives by pulling data from gerrit and the foundation membership db. I have several sets of reviews I'm looking at based on our past goals and the "help wanted" list. Which other initiatives are you interested in finding out about? How are you interested in seeing the data sliced up? | 20:42 |
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| fungi | been struggling to come up with anything specific, but i'll keep noodling on it | 21:58 |
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| fungi | or more accurately, a lot of the effort we need put into battling tragedy-of-the-commons effect isn't easily quantifiable because it has a significant dimension of quality | 22:35 |
| fungi | filing _detailed_ bugs, following up on bug backlogs with _useful_ suggestions to move them along, fixing _legitimate_ issues rather than trivial stuff you filed a bug on or convinced someone else to file for you... | 22:38 |
| fungi | maybe cross-project liaisons? though it's hard to mechanically sort the ones who are engaged from the ones who aren't (especially when a team lists two, or three, or a dozen) | 22:40 |
| fungi | similarly, security reviewers... yes they're small sets of volunteers from each project, but too many of them list half a dozen (or more) people when only one or two are even still active on the project | 22:42 |
| fungi | sig meeting chairs? other people who chair meetings but aren't ptls? i assume we don't want to highlight elected positions anyway (or maybe we do?) | 22:44 |
| clarkb | if goal is to quantify member company contribution I don't think you want to leave out elected positions as many people elected are able to do their jobs due to their employers | 22:45 |
| fungi | people who write summaries (weekly for project teams or for the tc or working groups)... though i can probably count them on one hand if i had an extra finger or two | 22:45 |
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| fungi | i'm on the fence about elected positions mainly because companies competed on the "we have the most ptls" metric in the past so that may not need extra help | 22:46 |
| dhellmann | I was thinking a bit more narrowly than all of that | 22:47 |
| fungi | heh. leave it to me to cast the net wide | 22:48 |
| dhellmann | we had some people assert that certain companies were not contributing to community things, and so i wanted to see what the stats showed for things like goals | 22:48 |
| dhellmann | I came up with these queries: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/565606/ | 22:48 |
| dhellmann | which are, admittedly, not going to be entirely accurate | 22:49 |
| dhellmann | but the number of changes they match make me think that if we're missing a few, it's not really going to change the results too much | 22:49 |
| dhellmann | I'm still working on getting the output of the program into useful shape for sharing (the problem with letting folks specify their affiliation with an arbitrary string is that they will, and then your dataset is useless) | 22:50 |
| fungi | looks good. i'd be a little worried about the efficacy on bugs-or-stories since some (largeish) teams have a culture of filing a tracking bug for every change whether it's actually a bugfix or not | 22:50 |
| dhellmann | yeah, that one is also made harder by moving to storyboard for *everything* | 22:50 |
| dhellmann | I wanted a way to just find bugs, but don't have a good way | 22:50 |
| mnaser | dhellmann: what would you define as contributing to community things? as in, having contributors that push code only in their commercial interest but not things such as goals/help-wanted, etc? | 22:50 |
| dhellmann | mnaser : the program I wrote over in the goal-tools repo defines it as creating a review, uploading a new rev of the review if you were not the original author, reviewing +2, and approving | 22:51 |
| dhellmann | I have not addressed +1/-1 for now because they are so easy to game, and so obviously already a target of gaming | 22:52 |
| mnaser | dhellmann: i see, forgive me but isn't that a lot of what stackalytics allows us to see (when it works) | 22:52 |
| dhellmann | and then the queries are looking for those kinds of contributions across different sets of patches, like "anything that went into stable/ocata" or "anything tagged for $a_goal" | 22:52 |
| mnaser | oh okay, that little dive in is not something we can do with stackalytics | 22:53 |
| dhellmann | mnaser : stackalytics doesn't easily let us do that latter part, with targeted queries | 22:53 |
| dhellmann | right | 22:53 |
| mnaser | yup | 22:53 |
| dhellmann | I did start with the stackalytics organization name mapping data, but I tweaked it a bunch because it's pretty badly out of date | 22:53 |
| dhellmann | at this point, I'm looking for more questions we would like answered or discussed as part of preparing for the joint bod/tc meeting in vancouver | 22:54 |
| dhellmann | so if anyone has input, please share your ideas | 22:55 |
| mnaser | dhellmann: zuul file changes could be an interesting one as that's a very useful way to see whos keeping the gates moving | 22:55 |
| mnaser | by zuul file changes, i mean "zuul.yaml" etc | 22:55 |
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| dhellmann | hmm, ok, sure | 22:55 |
| dhellmann | let me see if I can come up with a good query for that one | 22:56 |
| mnaser | perhaps the migration to zuul v3 topics as well, i think in the docs we suggested using a topic | 22:56 |
| mnaser | nope we did not in infra docs | 22:56 |
| dhellmann | well, there were no zuul.d or .zuul.yaml files before then, so any changes to those files would be part of the transition, right? | 22:57 |
| dhellmann | I'm not sure how to check for those sorts of changes within the infra repos, though | 22:57 |
| mnaser | dhellmann: correct, so i guess any zuul.d or zuul.yaml changes to anything outside openstack-infra repos means either migration to zuulv3 or ci improvement/fixes/changes | 22:58 |
| dhellmann | right | 22:58 |
| dhellmann | mnaser : does this look right? path:^\.zuul\.yaml OR path:^zuul\.d/.* OR path:^\.zuul\.d/.* | 23:00 |
| mnaser | dhellmann: in simpler form and seems to be returning the same results is "file:.zuul.yaml OR file:zuul.d" | 23:01 |
| clarkb | dhellmann: zuul.yaml (without leading . is also valid) | 23:01 |
| mnaser | dhellmann: i hacked on the following | 23:01 |
| mnaser | projects:openstack/ (file:.zuul.yaml OR file:zuul.d) is:merged -topic:zuulv3-projects | 23:01 |
| mnaser | okay but the without leading . is missing | 23:01 |
| fungi | limiting it to projects:openstack/ is likely pointless | 23:01 |
| dhellmann | why the -topic? | 23:01 |
| fungi | since that's just our default namespace | 23:01 |
| dhellmann | I'm already filtering to only governed repos | 23:01 |
| mnaser | i had the -topic:zuulv3-projects because of the very very big change that corvus did removing the project name from zuul.yaml | 23:02 |
| mnaser | so it would have inflated your numbers | 23:02 |
| dhellmann | ah | 23:02 |
| dhellmann | I'm also not filtering on merged changes, because WIP changes are still being contributed and that's OK | 23:03 |
| mnaser | so perhaps this - (file:zuul.yaml OR file:.zuul.yaml OR file:zuul.d) -topic:zuulv3-projects | 23:03 |
| dhellmann | ok, that's what I have now | 23:03 |
| dhellmann | mnaser : on filtering out that topic, an argument could be made that a more sustainable way to make changes like that is to have several people do it, or even describe the change that each project needs to make. I realize that that specific change needed to be throttled to avoid overwhelming zuul, but I'm not sure the skew is actually "bad" in this case. | 23:06 |
| dhellmann | I suspect the work I did to add lower-constraints jobs is also "skewing" that data significantly in a similar way | 23:09 |
| fungi | it's good to remember that we had a devil of a time getting some teams to review/merge those in a timely fashion too | 23:09 |
| dhellmann | yeah, right now I'm only tracking actual work done, not delays. that will require some additional tooling. | 23:09 |
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