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| openstackgerrit | Tuan Luong-Anh proposed openstack/governance master: Replace deprecated library function os.popen() with subprocess https://review.openstack.org/570093 | 02:08 |
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| openstackgerrit | Tuan Luong-Anh proposed openstack/governance master: Replace deprecated library function os.popen() with subprocess https://review.openstack.org/570093 | 02:30 |
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| openstackgerrit | melissaml proposed openstack/governance master: fix a typo in projects.yaml https://review.openstack.org/569465 | 15:47 |
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| * fungi thinks using "tc" to mean "titanium cloud" in this channel is confusing | 17:39 | |
| cmurphy | oh wow, I was wondering why the puppet was highly specific to the technical committee environment and didn't even make that connection | 17:40 |
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| fungi | that was me too, at least for a couple minutes | 17:41 |
| zaneb | lol | 17:41 |
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| * dtroyer slaps /me with a wet noodle | 17:58 | |
| dtroyer | I had that problem going the other way for a while | 17:59 |
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| cdent | My ongoing frustration with the starlingx stuff has little to do with the code (having code, any code, to farm for improvements is a net win). What is really getting to me is the way in which companies are now able to exercise the foundation for loads of "free" publicity that they wouldn't get if they were joining openstack (the project) itself | 18:30 |
| cdent | similarly, a small project from a smallish company, like adjutant, doesn't get starlingX level of marketing, because it _looks_ like if you are intel you can play whatever games you like | 18:32 |
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| cdent | but not if you are small (and wanting to play by some form of rules) | 18:33 |
| cdent | So, essentially, the foundation executive's power to incubate projects has created a complex, and fairly undefined, playing field | 18:33 |
| mugsie | honestly, I have no issue with stuff around openstack, the patch management / infra management etc. it is the forks that i have the issue with. | 18:33 |
| mugsie | I would say the tooling should go up, and be made to work with the openstack/(nova|cinder|glance|..) repos | 18:34 |
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| cdent | I'm semi-shruggy about forking. the larger openstack projects are sometimes pretty bad about velocity. I'm not sure that competition is a bad thing. That's not to say that the way this has been done is correct, but I do think it was inevitable | 18:35 |
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| dtroyer | mugsie: I did update https://review.openstack.org/#/c/569562/ last night to only include the non-forking repos (all of them, not just OpenStack) while we sort out what the right solution is | 18:44 |
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| mugsie | dtroyer: OK, that sounds like a good way forward. Thanks for the paitence on this | 19:24 |
| jbryce | cdent: we've given starlingx basically no marketing from the foundation (no logo, no press release, no interviews, no mention in our speaking) and my input to dtroyer and crew was to make code available asap and start discussions from there to figure out the right approach with it | 19:28 |
| jbryce | i personally have no interest in paper/marketing launches, but companies will talk about it on their own in ways that we don't always control | 19:31 |
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| jbryce | i also think we're still trying to figure out how to handle the chicken and egg thing of first steps for these things. in my view, i'd love to have something similar to the old stackforge space where we could put code to start with and then discuss if/where/how it fits in overall without implying a level off officialness or completeness that probably isn't accurate | 19:49 |
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| dtroyer | one of the knocks on stackforge was the pain in moving repos between namespaces. The upstream group of repos in STX would be a good fit for a temporary place to hold things until the final disposition is complete. By definition, nothing moves out, it is only retired. Of course there is the risk of a permanent temporary status (see Google's definition of 'beta'), I wouldn't mind having a lease-type of arrangement where after some period the continue | 20:33 |
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| jbryce | yeah i get the technical challenges around it. just talking more conceptually. with airship we actually set up the git vhost ( https://git.airshipit.org ) to use publicly to try to get a little separation from the openstack namespace at the start | 21:14 |
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| cdent | jbryce: yeah, I don't think there's bad intent by the foundation, but rather than companies are able to take advantage of the not fully formed situation to get a benefit that isn't ideal: at least some people are equating starlingx with kata or zuul as "top level project". That may be incorrect, but being able to say it so easily is problematic. | 22:14 |
| jbryce | yep | 22:16 |
| cdent | we've seen similar things enough times now it seems like we need to come up with some kind of "hey, you're at level 1 of whatever this multi-level process is you may not say $something" | 22:17 |
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| zaneb | dtroyer: question: is the StarlingX project planning to accept more patches on top of the forks, or is it just a case of publishing the existing code in advance of trying to get it upstreamed? | 22:23 |
| dtroyer | zaneb: I am assuming that additional patches may be required, but I think a really strong case needs to be made if that is the case. We need them to build and that is how adjustments, like a security backport, would be done. | 22:28 |
| dtroyer | BTW, we do need to fix the recent Nova CVE, that will be one of the first things we add. | 22:29 |
| zaneb | dtroyer: I think it's completely reasonable to continue to import stuff from upstream stable/pike | 22:30 |
| zaneb | and adjusting build stuff | 22:31 |
| zaneb | if more development was happening on that branch I'd be concerned | 22:31 |
| dtroyer | mee too | 22:32 |
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| zaneb | dtroyer: I do wonder if maintaining it as a repo containing patches to be applied to upstream stable/pike, like a distro might do (although in this case one that contains new features, which a distro generally wouldn't do) might help with the perception problem | 22:33 |
| zaneb | because that's really not a tempting way to do new feature development ;) | 22:34 |
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| dtroyer | the repo is going to exist, either in a visible shared place or privately in multiple developer places. I am not sure if the extra steps involved will have the intended effect. I do know, after this process, that reviewing patches of patch files is really painful and you need to unroll them to make proper sense of them. At least I do. | 22:37 |
| zaneb | :) | 22:38 |
| zaneb | dtroyer: fyi this is what we use: https://github.com/softwarefactory-project/rdopkg#rdopkg | 22:39 |
| dtroyer | thanks, added to our list… we need to re-visit much of the build process around StarlingX. The thing we have now has 5 years of tuning in a single static environment to un-do. | 22:41 |
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