Friday, 2018-08-03

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ttxeumel8, mugsie: did you contact Dariusz already ? Otherwise I'll send him an email now.08:48
eumel8ttx: already sent but no answer yet08:49
ttxeumel8: if I send an email to encourage him to submit a openstack/governance change, will that look weird ?08:50
eumel8ttx: I'm not sure, maybe he feels a bit overwhelmed08:52
ttxhmm, ok, let's wait for his answer then. Or maybe you can forward me your email and I respond to it suggesting the change. Will look less like  parallel efforts08:53
ttxyour call08:54
eumel8ttx: I gave him already your e-mail address and invited him to this channel. So I think we have to wait09:02
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eumel8ttx: btw any reasons to prevent this merge: ?09:04
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ttxmissing one vote, I think09:21
cdenti'll look at it09:22
eumel8thx, team members are a little bit nervous to get ATC code before the ticket prize for the Summit goes higher09:26
eumel8ttx: you've got the e-mail10:11
ttxyes, replying now10:11
eumel8great, you stay in touch ;)10:11
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openstackgerritDariusz Krol proposed openstack/governance master: Adding Dariusz Krol candidacy for Trove PTL
openstackgerritDariusz Krol proposed openstack/governance master: Adding Dariusz Krol candidacy for Trove PTL
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openstackgerritIan Y. Choi proposed openstack/governance master: Update PTI around docs build with additional logics
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openstackgerritIan Y. Choi proposed openstack/governance master: Update PTI around project doc translation support
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: clarify wording of length of term for vice chair
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dhellmanntc-members: I've reviewed the topic list for the PTG and put together a proposed agenda. I don't feel like we're going to have time to cover everything, so I tried to pick representative topics. Please review the results over the next week and leave feedback here in channel. Especially note any topics with your name attached to be prepared to help lead the discussion.
EmilienMdhellmann: I like the fact we only have a few topics12:33
cdentthanks dhellmann12:33
EmilienMI believe it'll let us focus on fewer things but deeper I guess12:33
dhellmannEmilienM : yeah, if we finish with those in the time allotted we can always pull something off of the list at the bottom12:33
dhellmannrunning out of things to say has never really been our issue, though :-)12:34
dimsLOL +1 dhellmann12:35
dhellmannI couldn't tell who added "adjutant officialdom process retrospective" which turned into Sunday's "How we review and bring on new projects" so if that was you please add your name12:36
jrollsounds like a cdent12:37
cdentI would have thought my unique rhyme style was a giveaway12:37
dimsdhellmann : fyi, k8s folks are starting a "job board" using their discuss based website -
cdentdhellmann: maybe we can make "enhancing engagement with the foundation board and executive" a hallway thing. I really think we badly need to sit down with jbryce and work out ways to make it feel like we are working more in concert12:39
cdentso I guess perhaps at the piano12:39
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jrolldims: neat12:39
smcginnisAnd you shake your head at me cdent.12:40
dhellmanncdent : TBH, I wasn't sure what that item meant. I'm open to fleshing it out. Maybe we can arrange a meeting with him when we have that done.12:40
cdentI'm in the middle writing this weeks placemet update, so distracted, but I suspect smcginnis (tag!) can help explain that one12:41
smcginnisYeah. I think a few of us feel like there is a disconnect between the TC, the foundation, and maybe the board. Or at least sometimes it feels like we are too independent of each other where we could be working together more to make sure we are trying to drive to the same goals.12:42
smcginnisSo I think that topic suggestion was to look at ways where we can work together more, or how we can improve that feeling that we are all working towards a common goal.12:43
dhellmannlet's start with writing down some details about what is leading to that sentiment, and then we can see if we have specific ideas for change or if we're looking for advice12:43
smcginnisThat could be a good outcome of a discussion in Denver.12:43
dhellmannI'd like to have some more details in place before adding it to the agenda. We have a few weeks.12:44
dhellmannin Vancouver we had some rather open-ended conversations about this topic. Let's try to come up with something actionable and then arrange a meeting with the relevant folks.12:45
cdentI recognize that we have limited time for these things as a general rule, but we need to make time for open-ended/speculative conversation and brain sharing12:45
dimssmcginnis : agree, i am not looking forward to the next "surprise" move from foundation12:45
smcginnisWe've brought up a few times that we'd like more open communication between the TC and BoD/Foundation.12:46
smcginnisWe've pushed for having joint leadership meetings to mixed success.12:46
smcginnisI feel like we have been bringing up a few concrete actions at least a few of us would like to see for awhile now, so maybe we need some discussion time to socialize some of the ideas within the group.12:47
dhellmanncan we start by writing those ideas down in 1 place?12:47
smcginnisdims: And definitely, I would like to avoid more big surprises. ;)12:47
evrardjpdhellmann: good idea to write those down, it would be nice to share it so ppl can follow too.12:54
dhellmannevrardjp : good point; those may be of interest to folks outside of the TC, too12:56
evrardjpmaybe if only 0.1% read it, it's probably worth it, if not now, 1 year from now.12:56
smcginnisStarting -
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dhellmannsmcginnis : thanks13:01
smcginnisI'll try to think more on it and add anything else later, but it's at least a start.13:01
smcginnisSlightly tangential, but with the length of the PTG topic suggestions and the small amount that we actually have time to discuss, it really does look like we have enough things to do an independent TC gathering to hash out some things.13:11
smcginnisI know ttx had suggested trying to see if OSS EU could potentially be a venue where some of us could get together. I had to change my plans and back out of ATO and will most likely be there, so if it's an option for others, maybe we should still think about that.13:12
scasmy ptg plans may be dashed, much to the cookbooks' dismay. oral surgery looms in my future13:13
scasi seem to have extraordinary luck when it comes to the in-person gatherings13:15
dhellmannscas : condolences13:24
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dhellmannsmcginnis : I'll be on PTO the week of OSS EU, but if some folks can attend then I say go for it13:26
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scasberlin is still tentative, luck excepting13:31
smcginnisMaybe we should start suggesting now that we at least have a full day Sunday before Berlin or something.13:32
dhellmannI'll ask Alan about the plans for a meeting there13:33
openstackgerritSean McGinnis proposed openstack/governance master: Add Stein goal for upgrade checkers
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scasafter the gerrit downtime, i'll probably be a bit less chatty while i resume work on stabilization and documentation. the despair has been unintended, but has given me some paths and perspective13:49
scasnine cores to two was... difficult. three or four on a good day to one is a lot more impactful13:51
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fungigerrit downtime should hopefully be extremely brief14:09
fungiwe really just run an ansible playbook that stops the service, runs a handful of very quick sql update queries, instantaneously moves some directories, and then starts the service again14:10
fungiit'll basically take ~ the same time a normal gerrit restart does14:10
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scascapital. i wanted to cross one of my frequently asked questions off the list, which led me to the hardest problem in cs. the #1 question has been 'why does it have repo in the name?'14:14
fungiugh. we probably need a job to validate extra-atcs are foundation individual members14:17
fungii'm running a simple shell for loop over the e-mail addresses in reference/projects.yaml and coming up with a lot which fail member lookup14:18
fungithough i guess we filter them out of electoral rolls anyway so it's not the end of the world14:19
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fungiand thinking about it more, it would be hard to test without risk of wedging proposed changes to that file14:31
fungisince memberships can go inactive at any time14:31
dhellmannfungi : it would be nice if we had a library we could use for that instead of copying code around to different places14:31
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openstackgerritDoug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: add soft validation of extra-atcs
dhellmannfungi : ^^14:41
fungii think it's something like...14:41
fungifrom openstack_election.utils import lookup_member14:42
dhellmannoh, is that published to pypi?14:42
fungigood question14:42
dhellmannI just copied some code I had in goal-tools to do it14:42
dhellmannin that patch ^^14:42
fungilooks like openstack_election isn't published to pypi (we've never tagged it for that matter) and odds are we'd want to break the utility source out to a separate repo from the data anyway14:43
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openstackgerritDoug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: remove expired atcs
dhellmannwe could do something similar with the governance repo for accessing the data there14:46
dhellmannI have some code in the releases repo that could be copied over14:46
smcginnisIt would be nice to centralize some of those things.14:47
dhellmannwe could put the foundation access stuff in either the election repo or the governance repo to avoid creating another library14:49
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fungiyeah, any of those seem fine to me15:05
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-openstackstatus- NOTICE: The infra team is renaming projects in Gerrit. There will be a short ~10 minute Gerrit downtime in a few minutes as a result.16:03
smcginnistc-members: FYI - - Freezer and searchlight did not meet our documented policy about having a minimum of two milestone releases to be included in rocky.16:04
mnasersearchlight (as mugsie posted in the etherpad) PTL does not seem to want to continue16:04
smcginnisAny word on freezer?16:05
ttxno response yet16:05
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fungiseems like a fairly consistent level of attention to those projects in that case (no releases, no ptl volunteers...)16:05
EmilienMfreezer looks frozen (sorry I had to)16:06
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openstackgerritDirk Mueller proposed openstack/governance master: Update PTL for OpenStack RPM Packaging
fungiEmilienM: are you going to go looking for the searchlight maintainers with a searchlight now? ;)16:36
* cdent looks to smcginnis for the cherry topping followup16:36
cdentc'mon dad16:36
smcginnisDang it, I missed it!16:37
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-openstackstatus- NOTICE: Project renames and downtime are complete without any major issue.17:29
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mnaserfungi: is there an easy way to list the possible list of candidates for ptl for a team?18:17
fungimnaser: basically, run the same command the election officials do for roll generation and then look at the resulting project-specific file for a list of qualifying apcs18:19
mnaseri guess those are in the election repo18:20
fungiyeah, via tox:18:20
fungitox -e venv2 -- generate-rolls --tag aug-2018-elections --without-stable18:21
fungi(the --without-stable option will be removed soon since we can now rip out the convoluted process we had for generating the stable maint team electorate)18:22
fungiexpect it to take a while depending on your latency to and openstackid-resources.openstack.org18:23
mnaserno worries, i'm just looking for the list for searchlight18:23
fungicould be up to an hour18:23
fungii can just provide you with the structured data for the searchlight electorate18:24
mnaserfungi: that would be appreciated18:24
fungisince i ran a copy for the election18:24
fungibut the command above is how you could generate it yourself if needed18:24
mnaseri'll keep that with me18:24
* fungi digs it up18:24
mnaserfungi: thank you18:25
fungi21 apcs in all18:26
fungi(not many!)18:26
EmilienMfungi: searching light is my daily mission ;-)18:26
fungiproposal bot had the most changes, followed by release bot, and then dhellmann ;)18:27
dhellmannI say we put the bots in charge18:28
fungiclearly you haven't been paying attention ;)18:28
fungipretty obvious the bots are already in charge18:29
dhellmannthat settles that, then18:29
* fungi gets back to building out more overlords18:29
mnaserso what do we think would be the next best step for searchlight?18:32
fungiquick numbers say that the two bots are responsible for a majority of commits to all searchlight deliverables in the past year18:33
mnaseras of now, the current PTL is not able to spend much time in openstack18:33
mnasermost changes that were pushed upp are like typo fixes and stuff18:33
fungi57% of commits came from the proposal bot or release bot18:33
dhellmannsince they missed the release and the election, I wonder if there's really anyone actively doing much of anything with it18:33
dhellmannand if that's the case, then I think we should mark it as unmaintained and remove it from governance18:34
mnaserwhy not propose removing it from governance and sending an email to the mailing list asking for comments18:34
fungithere were a total of 40 non-bot-created commits across all searchlight repos for the past year18:34
dhellmannlow volume is less of a problem, since we thought searchlight was mostly feature-complete anyway18:35
dhellmannbut not participating in the release or the election is more of a concern to me18:35
fungithat's an average of <1 commit per month per deliverable repo18:35
dhellmannthat's pretty stable :-)18:36
fungiyep, just looking for actual perspective on change volume18:36
dhellmannyeah, the stats are helpful18:36
dhellmannif we had a lot of changes going into the project, we might work harder to find a new ptl18:36
mnaserdo we want to send an ML post?18:39
fungiwhat's funny is the ratio of code contributors to human-initiated commits. an average of <2 commits per contributor18:39
fungi23 presumed-human code contributors (two of whom don't qualify as apc due to lack of active foundation membership) to 40 changes18:40
fungi15 had only a single commit merged18:41
fungii wonder if that's out "typo correction" cosic background radiation at work18:41
fungiclearly my fingers start giving out at 3pm on a friday18:42
dhellmannmnaser : yeah, I had it on my list to do that for both searchlight and freezer18:43
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openstackgerritDoug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: remove searchlight from governance
openstackgerritDoug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: remove freezer from governance
cdentand so the real contraction begins19:15
dhellmannand the ML threads are : and
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fungithanks for getting those posted!21:28
fungiit's like posting a classified ad in the newspaper... found: one software project in fair condition, free to any interested maintainer who can give it a good home21:30
smcginnisIt will be nice if it ends up working that way.21:37
dhellmannwe should rename the attic portion of gerrit to "the curb"21:43
dhellmannmaybe that's more a thing in college towns though21:43
* dhellmann is bracing for the return of The Students21:43
clarkbdhellmann: the last house I lived in was near a small univeristy, the number of mattresses on the curb with things growing out of them (fungi and plants) was astounding21:47
clarkbotherwise it was often hard to tell we were next door to a university21:47
dhellmannwe get dressers, lamps, sofas, all sorts of furniture21:47
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fungiyou mostly don't want any of the furniture that winds up on the curbs here. residents buy all their furniture used to begin with because 90% of properties are furnished rentals and when they rotate our furniture they resell it to the used furniture stores here which are always flush with inventory in good condition22:06
fungier, rotate out furniture22:06
fungiso rather than waiting for students to return i'm waiting for tourists to recede22:08
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dhellmannoh, the stuff on the curbs here ends up out in the rain because the trash service won't pick it up so we have to wait for the property owner (vs. tenant) to do something about it22:16
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