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| evrardjp | timburke: sorry I paraphrased. | 07:34 |
|---|---|---|
| evrardjp | it's exactly what I thought though :) | 07:34 |
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| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: Update member roster based on Sept 2019 election https://review.opendev.org/680356 | 09:34 |
| gmann | timburke: and that is for U master also or until Train (stable) branch only? | 09:39 |
| gmann | because if we remove the py2.7 support in U cycle then we still keep the py2.7 support until stable/train for every project. | 09:40 |
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| tosky | and now that we have Extended Maintenance, that means a loooong time | 09:50 |
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| gmann | tosky: yeah but I do not expect much maintenance cost as it will be all stable branches only and less code flow there. | 10:36 |
| tosky | gmann: sure; it's just means more care when touching the code to not break it (even though the tempest jobs should catch issues) | 10:37 |
| gmann | yeah. Tempest need to keep all those py2.7 jobs until Train EM | 10:38 |
| gmann | on Tempest master | 10:38 |
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| openstackgerrit | Graham Hayes proposed openstack/governance master: Update Project Liasons for new TC roster https://review.opendev.org/680386 | 12:07 |
| mugsie | gmann: we never said we would force projects to drop 2.7 - just that they could | 12:12 |
| mugsie | the updates just removes the *requirement* to test on 2.7 | 12:12 |
| gmann | mugsie: if we remove the test on 2.7 then project needs to say no-support-for-py27 | 12:13 |
| gmann | i mean we have to do it when py2.7 is going to be removed in Jan 2020 | 12:13 |
| mugsie | sure, but us removing the 2.7 from the U PTI doesn't mean that tempest can remove 2.7 in U | 12:14 |
| mugsie | projects can start dropping it as they see fit, but we are not forcing them to drop it (yet) | 12:14 |
| gmann | Tempest case is different Tempest master is running on all stable branch so we need to tests 2.7 | 12:15 |
| mugsie | tempest will be stuck for a long time with 2.7 I think | 12:15 |
| gmann | yeah we are not forcing to remove now but when we will plan the same in U cycle then project can remove the py2.7 gate and also classifier from setup.cfg to remove the support of py2.7 | 12:16 |
| gmann | yes, Tempest might be able to remove in Y or Z :) | 12:17 |
| tosky | it's the same for the tempest plugins then; maybe worth highlighting this, as each project may accidentally remove py2 support from them | 12:21 |
| mugsie | yea, thats a good point | 12:22 |
| * mugsie has nearly done it with old API tests in the past | 12:22 | |
| gmann | tosky: yes. we are keeping py35 testing also on all tempest plugins so same plan we need to follow for py2.7 | 12:22 |
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| gmann | May be it will be good to mention the same in PTI runtime doc so that we do not miss | 12:24 |
| tosky | yes, that's the idea | 12:24 |
| Sundar | Hello, for the projects where no PTLs have been elected yet, it was said that TC will follow up. I had sent an email announcing candidacy for Cyborg PTL and subsequently filed https://review.opendev.org/679912 . What else should I do now? | 12:25 |
| gmann | Sundar: fungi or someone else will update the new PTL names in governance and on top of that you can propose the patch to add your name as cyborg PTL. then TC will approve that. | 12:30 |
| Sundar | gmann: Thanks. | 12:32 |
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| asettle | o/ | 12:54 |
| * mugsie will be a few minutes late to the meeting | 12:56 | |
| asettle | mnaser, do we need gif game?! | 12:58 |
| mnaser | wait, it's in another hour right? | 12:58 |
| * lbragstad is pretty sure it is in 2 minutes | 12:59 | |
| lbragstad | bah nevermind... | 12:59 |
| ttx | yes one more hour | 12:59 |
| lbragstad | i'm susceptible to off-by-one errors today | 12:59 |
| asettle | Damn I also got a notification it was now | 13:00 |
| asettle | I won't be able to make the meeting in an hour | 13:00 |
| asettle | We've got the SUSE all hands and I'm in the office for it so gotta look livey | 13:01 |
| asettle | lively* | 13:01 |
| ricolin | o/ | 13:03 |
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| mugsie | the invite shows 5 mins ago :/ | 13:08 |
| mugsie | I also have a conflict in an hour | 13:09 |
| ttx | Invite says 14utc? | 13:10 |
| gmann | yeah 1400 UTC | 13:10 |
| mugsie | oh. the ical file from eavesdrop is 1300 it seems | 13:11 |
| ttx | hmm | 13:12 |
| ttx | mugsie: blaming code I wrote will lead you nowhere good Graham! | 13:12 |
| asettle | HAHAHAHA | 13:13 |
| mugsie | ttx: DTSTART;VALUE=DATE-TIME:20181101T140000Z | 13:13 |
| mugsie | It seems I have to shout at outlook devs | 13:14 |
| ttx | \o/ | 13:14 |
| ttx | I'm starting to analyze/track solutions for the leaderless teams at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ussuri-leaderless | 13:15 |
| ttx | feel free to play along | 13:15 |
| openstackgerrit | Ghanshyam Mann proposed openstack/governance master: Add Tempest and Plugins req in Train tested Runtime https://review.opendev.org/680407 | 13:21 |
| dhellmann | did I miss the patch to confirm the new TC roster? or do we not have one, yet? | 13:41 |
| dhellmann | ah, I missed it https://review.opendev.org/#/c/680356/ | 13:41 |
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| openstackgerrit | Mohammed Naser proposed openstack/governance master: Add Mohammed Naser nomination as chair https://review.opendev.org/680414 | 13:47 |
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| dhellmann | mnaser : I think we'll want to land https://review.opendev.org/#/c/680356/, then have you update the gerrit group so the new members can vote on ^^ | 13:51 |
| dhellmann | IIRC, that's how we've done it in the past | 13:51 |
| dhellmann | tc-members : if you're going to miss the meeting it would be good to get your votes on https://review.opendev.org/#/c/680356/ in now | 13:52 |
| mnaser | dhellmann: my patch sits on top of that, but yes, fair enough | 13:52 |
| dhellmann | mnaser : yeah, that's right, but I'm thinking about who the right set of voters is for each. The outgoing TC confirms the incoming, and the incoming selects their chair. | 13:53 |
| mnaser | fair | 13:53 |
| mnaser | ill abandon | 13:53 |
| mnaser | and then restore then | 13:53 |
| dhellmann | mnaser : no, that's not what I'm suggesting | 13:53 |
| dhellmann | just don't approve it :-) | 13:53 |
| mnaser | right but there mgiht be a bunch of RC+1 for some non-tc members? | 13:53 |
| dhellmann | sorry if I wasn't clear; we just need to pause in between to update the gerrit group with the right voters | 13:53 |
| mnaser | i am not sure what happens with gerrit if yo uremove someone, if their RC gets removed or not | 13:54 |
| mugsie | it doesn't | 13:54 |
| dhellmann | it doesn't, but we can just count by hand | 13:54 |
| mnaser | doing math.. pfft | 13:54 |
| dhellmann | one benefit of shrinking the tc to 9 members is you could use your fingers ;-) | 13:54 |
| mnaser | ill just abandon and restore it later, it's easier for me tbh\ | 13:54 |
| dhellmann | ok, if that's easier, go for it | 13:54 |
| mnaser | so that way i can just continue to use check-review | 13:55 |
| mnaser | tc-members: meeting in 5! | 13:55 |
| * mnaser goes back to listing all countries ive traveled to since 2014 | 13:55 | |
| zaneb | mnaser: remember to write really small | 13:57 |
| mnaser | i'm finally getting nexus/global entry/$whatever_its_called | 13:57 |
| mnaser | the neat thing is for the visa applications for china, you have a code you can just put in and it puts in your previous application | 13:57 |
| mnaser | so that should be easy for shanghai | 13:58 |
| evrardjp | o/ | 13:58 |
| ttx | mnaser: at the end of the meeting it would be good to discuss https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ussuri-leaderless | 13:59 |
| ttx | and get volunteers for actions in there | 13:59 |
| mnaser | sure | 13:59 |
| mnaser | #startmeeting tc | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 5 14:00:09 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mnaser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| mnaser | #topic roll call | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:00 | |
| mnaser | \o/ | 14:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:00 | |
| ttx | o/ | 14:00 |
| ricolin | o/ | 14:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 14:00 |
| njohnston | o/ | 14:00 |
| gmann | o/ | 14:00 |
| fungi | thanks ttx for pushing the tc members update. do you know if there's one yet for the ptls? | 14:00 |
| ttx | fungi: no, that one is a bit more... complex to make | 14:00 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 14:01 |
| ttx | (and arguably slightly less urgent) | 14:01 |
| zaneb | o/ | 14:01 |
| fungi | sorry, will pick back up on discussion of election topics after the meeting | 14:01 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 14:01 |
| ttx | after teh 13-member TC, today we have... the 17-member TC | 14:01 |
| dhellmann | the new tc should confirm that one | 14:01 |
| * jungleboyj is starting early, though double booked. :-) | 14:01 | |
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| mnaser | a lot of math and counting but i think we have quroum | 14:02 |
| mugsie | o/ | 14:02 |
| evrardjp | ttx: :) | 14:02 |
| mnaser | lets get started i guess | 14:02 |
| dhellmann | mnaser : I count 10 | 14:02 |
| mnaser | #topic Follow up on past action items | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Follow up on past action items (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:02 | |
| mnaser | #info mnaser to contact Alan to mention that TC will have some presence at Shanghai leadership meeting | 14:03 |
| mnaser | i have done this and let them know we'll be around, but nothing more yet in terms of planning | 14:03 |
| mnaser | there is a confirmed time and date, so for those new TC members, please update https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PVG-TC-PTG | 14:03 |
| mnaser | i'll try to add more context because we have new members :) | 14:04 |
| gmann | done | 14:04 |
| mnaser | every time we have a summit, there is usually a 1 day meeting that involves OSF staff+board+TC+UC+(other OSF projects) | 14:05 |
| mugsie | mnaser: and the date / time of the leadership meeting would be helpful | 14:05 |
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| mnaser | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation#OpenStack_Board_of_Director_Meetings | 14:05 |
| mnaser | so it'll be at 3 november, a day before the summit starts, so just a heads up on that :) | 14:06 |
| mnaser | we can follow up more on that later, but that action item is done and we can remove it | 14:06 |
| mnaser | #info ricolin update SIG guidelines to simplify the process for new SIGs | 14:06 |
| ttx | it's a good way to catch up with jet lag | 14:06 |
| mnaser | hah | 14:06 |
| mnaser | ricolin: wanna update us on this? | 14:06 |
| jungleboyj | So it conflicts with Upstream Institute again. | 14:06 |
| ricolin | I'm currently working on etherpad for that, and will ask SIG chairs to join edit once I'm done with the draft version. https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/SIGs-guideline | 14:06 |
| gmann | jungleboyj: yeah but depends on place. if it is different then yes | 14:07 |
| ricolin | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/SIGs-guideline | 14:07 |
| ricolin | feedback welcome:) | 14:07 |
| ttx | fwiw we do not have to all be there | 14:07 |
| jungleboyj | OUI is going to be at the Lenovo Offices. So, will need to figure out how to work that out. | 14:07 |
| ttx | just to represent | 14:07 |
| dhellmann | jungleboyj : it always will | 14:07 |
| ttx | there is no room for everyone in every leadership body anyway | 14:07 |
| mnaser | +2 to what ttx mentioned, it is just an update so there's no decision making or anything, we just need representation :) | 14:07 |
| jungleboyj | ttx: Ok. | 14:07 |
| ttx | what's important is that whoever shows up knows what to say | 14:08 |
| mnaser | ricolin: thanks. that looks really good | 14:08 |
| ttx | so preparation is more important than being there really | 14:08 |
| mnaser | so next step is followingh up with SIG chairs to update/edit ? | 14:08 |
| ricolin | mnaser, I assume, need to know how each SIG feel about the current docs before we can simplify it | 14:09 |
| mnaser | ++ cool, i assume you'll be continuing to drive this forward yourself? | 14:09 |
| ricolin | yes | 14:09 |
| mnaser | awesome, thanks for driving all this SIG stuff :) | 14:09 |
| mnaser | #action ricolin Follow up with SIG chairs about guidelines https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/SIGs-guideline | 14:09 |
| ricolin | Hope that's any helpful for Ansible, container SIG and others | 14:10 |
| ttx | #siglife | 14:10 |
| ricolin | mnaser, evrardjp ^^^ | 14:10 |
| mnaser | yes we're a fresh little bunch :-) | 14:10 |
| mnaser | #info ttx contact interested parties in a new 'large scale' SIG (help with mnaser, jroll reaching out to Verizon Media) | 14:10 |
| ricolin | #siglife! :) | 14:10 |
| evrardjp | I will have a look ricolin | 14:10 |
| ttx | I'm a bit behind, as August was not really great for that. Will get it done over the next month | 14:11 |
| mnaser | i didn't help much with this unfortunately, jroll hasn't mentioned anything yet here but i remember him saying that verizon gave a "now now we are dealing with fires but it sounds good" | 14:11 |
| mnaser | ok ill readd it as an action item again but dropping the verizon part, we can follow on that later, i dont think its that pressing for time | 14:11 |
| ttx | ++ | 14:11 |
| mnaser | #action ttx contact interested parties in a new 'large scale' SIG (help with mnaser) | 14:11 |
| mnaser | #topic Active Initiatives | 14:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Active Initiatives (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:12 | |
| mnaser | #info mugsie to sync with dhellmann or release-team to resolve proposal bot for project-template patches | 14:12 |
| mnaser | i think smcginnis brought this up here a few days ago too | 14:12 |
| mnaser | we're starting to get train branch requests but i dont know if that code has landed or not | 14:12 |
| mugsie | I hav the code, I am in the process of testing it, should have something early next week | 14:12 |
| mnaser | awesome | 14:12 |
| mugsie | but, fair warning it will land in about 3 places | 14:13 |
| mugsie | at least 2 anyway | 14:13 |
| dhellmann | mugsie: that's surprising; maybe we can talk about the details after this? | 14:13 |
| mugsie | dhellmann: sure, np | 14:14 |
| evrardjp | mugsie: I wouldn't mind syncing with you, as I started to do a few things about it. | 14:14 |
| mugsie | I am popular today :) | 14:14 |
| evrardjp | agreed with dhellmann , happy to see that :) | 14:14 |
| mnaser | cool, this can be an office hour-y thing or discussed later, but sounds good | 14:14 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : you're popular every day, friend | 14:14 |
| mnaser | smcginnis: ^ just fyi if you want to go back and read scrollback :) | 14:14 |
| mnaser | #info Shanghai TC sessions: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PVG-TC-brainstorming | 14:15 |
| mnaser | we need to start adding forum session ideas for the TC | 14:15 |
| mnaser | also -- did we add our usual few (i see goals there which is good) | 14:15 |
| mnaser | (extended maintenance? bahaha) | 14:16 |
| evrardjp | dhellmann: :) | 14:16 |
| mugsie | based on the thread built off the election results, do we need a "where is OpenStack leadership going to come from in the long run"? | 14:16 |
| mnaser | any ideas can go in there and then we can trim them down and clear them up :) | 14:16 |
| dhellmann | the topic is good, but I would change the phrasing of the title :-) | 14:17 |
| ttx | "The future of stewardship in OpenStack"? | 14:17 |
| jungleboyj | ttx: ++ | 14:17 |
| dhellmann | yeah, something like that | 14:17 |
| gmann | on goal sessions: we will have single sessions for U (if not finished we have 2 entry for U cycle goal till now ) as well as V cycle goal discussions. | 14:17 |
| mugsie | ttx: ++ | 14:17 |
| njohnston | ttx: ++ | 14:18 |
| ttx | because it's not just the TC nominees. It's hard to get volunteers to run elections and other community processes | 14:18 |
| ttx | it's not purely a leadership issue | 14:18 |
| ricolin | gmann, +1 on separate those two topics | 14:18 |
| dhellmann | gmann : would it make sense to split those into 2 sessions so you have time to get into details? | 14:18 |
| jungleboyj | Yeah ... It's a whole new world. | 14:18 |
| gmann | ohk. I am wondering if we select the U cycle goal before that | 14:18 |
| ttx | it's a lack of time / interest / recognition for doing community janitorial tasks imho | 14:18 |
| ttx | but then that's already discussing it | 14:19 |
| fungi | right, you could consider the people doing those other tasks leaders of a sort i suppose, even if not elected leaders | 14:19 |
| mnaser | :) | 14:19 |
| gmann | in that case we can utilize it for V goal discussion ? | 14:19 |
| mnaser | i think we should take all those ideas and put them in that etherpad | 14:19 |
| mnaser | we can save discussion for office hours (or if we're done earlier) | 14:19 |
| ricolin | I think we need some more time to discuss about what we gonna early start(initial) V-cycle goals, I think that will need time | 14:20 |
| ttx | yes, good office hour topic for this week and the next | 14:20 |
| ttx | since we'll need to submit forum topics soon | 14:20 |
| mnaser | cool, yes i think i saw the email that its open now | 14:20 |
| ttx | it is | 14:20 |
| dhellmann | gmann : even if you have the U goals selected, it would be good to have time to discuss implementation. We skipped that for Train, IIRC, and it has caused issues. | 14:20 |
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| mugsie | yeah | 14:20 |
| gmann | dhellmann: nice idea. +1 | 14:21 |
| mugsie | and it allows teams to socialise ideas to do them, or co-ordinate work | 14:21 |
| mnaser | i think we can move onto next item and discuss the rest of this in office hours? :> | 14:21 |
| dhellmann | there should probably always be 2 goals sessions: "implementing goals for N" and "choosing goals for N+1" | 14:21 |
| mugsie | ++ | 14:21 |
| dhellmann | k | 14:21 |
| ricolin | I think so | 14:21 |
| gmann | done | 14:22 |
| mnaser | #info Forum selection commitee: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2019-August/008188.html | 14:22 |
| mnaser | i think we already have a few volunteers and we can close this one out right? | 14:22 |
| mugsie | yeah - I thought we had people | 14:22 |
| ttx | yes | 14:22 |
| ttx | there was a thread | 14:22 |
| mnaser | i just wanted to leave it there to confirm that we're all good | 14:23 |
| mnaser | so we can drop it for the next one | 14:23 |
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| mnaser | #info Make goal selection a two-step process (needs reviews at https://review.opendev.org/#/c/667932/ ) | 14:23 |
| mugsie | same as ^ | 14:23 |
| mnaser | this merged, thanks for the awesome work ttx | 14:23 |
| mugsie | ++ | 14:24 |
| ttx | well now it needs to be applied and see if it flies | 14:24 |
| gmann | ++ | 14:24 |
| ttx | just in time :) | 14:24 |
| mnaser | heh | 14:24 |
| mnaser | #topic leaderless projects | 14:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "leaderless projects (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:24 | |
| mnaser | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ussuri-leaderless | 14:25 |
| mnaser | ttx: started to do the work on figuring out "wat do" | 14:25 |
| ttx | yes, gives some situational awareness | 14:25 |
| ttx | cybord sounds like a no-brainer | 14:26 |
| mnaser | cyborg is easy, yep | 14:26 |
| ttx | we just need to propose that change | 14:26 |
| evrardjp | thanks for this ttx. I have the impression some names are reoccuring ? | 14:26 |
| mnaser | designate seems like it has potential so i'd trust mugsie to make that call | 14:26 |
| ttx | (don't forget the "appointed" key) | 14:26 |
| ttx | evrardjp: yes | 14:26 |
| mnaser | ttx: i think we're still waiting for the ptl change to happen.. or do we do that.. | 14:26 |
| ttx | designate: mugsie tooke (yet another) action | 14:26 |
| mugsie | mnaser: yeah, I am meeting the suse people after this meeting, and then the other person tomorrow I think | 14:27 |
| ttx | openstacksdk... I can reach out to mordred. Since he lives on a boat, he tends to miss things | 14:27 |
| ttx | The others are all more complicated | 14:27 |
| mnaser | i think reaching out to nova ptl (efried) if they're interested in managing placement too? | 14:27 |
| ttx | Re: I18n, I can reach to ianychoi... he did not run because he was an election official | 14:28 |
| ttx | so if that was the ONLY reason for not running, he might save it | 14:28 |
| fungi | yes, he seems willing to cover i18n | 14:28 |
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| fungi | i think he realized that only after volunteering to be an election official | 14:28 |
| ttx | fungi: did you talk to him already? | 14:28 |
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| mnaser | ok that's pretty good in that case | 14:28 |
| evrardjp | ttx: I thought mordred lived in a plane, surprised of this | 14:28 |
| fungi | he mentioned it in #openstack-election | 14:28 |
| ttx | ok | 14:29 |
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| mnaser | ok so that might be relatively easy too | 14:29 |
| fungi | evrardjp: well, more that mordred has been on vacation for a few weeks and likely forgot elections were coming up | 14:29 |
| evrardjp | so fir i18n there was a conversation about moving to sig already | 14:29 |
| mnaser | i think for now lets focus our efforts on the tough ones if we have someone who has expressed interest | 14:29 |
| ttx | evrardjp: I've mixed feelings about that. They produce files that are shipped with most deliverables | 14:30 |
| mnaser | i think {powervm,win}stackers would probably have the same outcome. and figuring out what to do with placementc | 14:30 |
| ttx | so it's hard to object that they are on the projectteam side of the fence | 14:30 |
| openstackgerrit | Graham Hayes proposed openstack/governance master: Appoint Sundar Nadathur as Cyborg PTL https://review.opendev.org/680426 | 14:30 |
| dhellmann | ttx: is that still true? I thought they were focusing on translating documentation now | 14:30 |
| evrardjp | ttx: in any case, i18n can be first covered as a project then changed governance :) | 14:30 |
| ttx | dhellmann: someone changed openstack and did not warn me? | 14:31 |
| dhellmann | it's possible I'm wrong | 14:31 |
| ttx | dhellmann: if that is true... and no more zanata... | 14:31 |
| ttx | then yes, SIG all the way | 14:31 |
| ttx | or merge with docs | 14:31 |
| mnaser | i think its jsut docs cause we dropped the whole logging translation thing | 14:31 |
| dhellmann | they did API error messages at one point, too | 14:32 |
| dhellmann | that's the part I'm no longer sure of | 14:32 |
| zaneb | there are other things in code that get tranlated other than logs | 14:32 |
| mugsie | horizon? | 14:32 |
| ttx | hmm, ok so needs some checking | 14:32 |
| dhellmann | ah, yeah, horizon, too | 14:32 |
| gmann | contributors guide | 14:32 |
| mnaser | for now, we have someone who is expressed interest so we can figure out that stuff later | 14:32 |
| gmann | but those are one time things not so change frequently | 14:32 |
| evrardjp | zaneb: you mean there are still things in code that should be moved away ? ;) | 14:32 |
| mugsie | i got a zanata commit 7 weeks ago anyway for designate-dash | 14:32 |
| mnaser | placement and *stackers are the issue we should focus our time on | 14:33 |
| dhellmann | even if they're doing some code work, it could be a SIG because those are meant to be cross-project | 14:33 |
| ttx | yes | 14:33 |
| evrardjp | yeah we still have babel in most of the projects so I suppose there is a reason for this | 14:33 |
| dhellmann | mnaser : yeah | 14:33 |
| ttx | So.. *stackers first | 14:33 |
| ttx | My position is that they should be moved to SIGs | 14:33 |
| mugsie | ttx: ++ | 14:33 |
| dhellmann | if they aren't active enough to have a PTL, are they going to produce a SIG lead? | 14:33 |
| ttx | They are special interests, and currently outside of the scope of the projects they produce extras for | 14:33 |
| *** tiffanie has quit IRC | 14:34 | |
| mnaser | looks like the last change to nova-powervm is july 22 | 14:34 |
| ttx | dhellmann: maybe not, but I just want that variance out of the projectteam list | 14:34 |
| evrardjp | could we discuss about history of those in terms of missing deadlines? | 14:34 |
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| dhellmann | ttx : sure. What about removing them from the project team list and suggesting they apply to be a SIG if they want to. | 14:34 |
| dhellmann | rather than converting them automatically | 14:34 |
| evrardjp | dhellmann: I like this. | 14:34 |
| ttx | It's not a part of openstack, as long as their products are not adopted by the other project teams | 14:34 |
| mnaser | i agree with dhellmann on that. esp seeing the code activity.. | 14:34 |
| mnaser | https://review.opendev.org/#/q/project:openstack/nova-powervm | 14:35 |
| mnaser | review activity is dead too | 14:35 |
| ttx | and I'd argue that at this point it's very unlikely that they will ever be merged mainline | 14:35 |
| evrardjp | I would prefer ML call first, because it's quite a process to say we close something | 14:35 |
| mnaser | tbh, i'm inclined to take more of a strict action here | 14:35 |
| mnaser | we've been appointing it for a while | 14:35 |
| ricolin | evrardjp, +1 for ML | 14:35 |
| ttx | so I'd jump on the occasion that they missed elections twice in a row and remove them, If they want to continue as an official part of openstack they can, as a SIG | 14:35 |
| mnaser | and there's no activity and almost no review activity | 14:35 |
| gmann | +1 | 14:36 |
| dhellmann | ttx: +1 | 14:36 |
| mnaser | the last merged change was from someone who doesnt even work on the project anymore, 5 weeks ago | 14:36 |
| evrardjp | ttx: I would say yes: ML notification -> removal of offical | 14:36 |
| mnaser | https://review.opendev.org/#/q/project:openstack/nova-powervm+is:merged | 14:36 |
| ttx | Anyone volunteering to take one bullit for the team and proposing that? | 14:36 |
| mnaser | the project is quite obviously dead | 14:36 |
| jungleboyj | ttx: ++ | 14:36 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I'll do it, I'm a lame duck ;-) | 14:36 |
| ttx | Rico and I took the bullet of raising that thread 6 months ago :) | 14:37 |
| ttx | dhellmann: thx ! | 14:37 |
| zaneb | gate is broken as well by the looks of it | 14:37 |
| evrardjp | dhellmann: thanks :) | 14:37 |
| ricolin | dhellmann, cool! | 14:37 |
| mnaser | https://review.opendev.org/#/q/project:openstack/compute-hyperv+is:merged | 14:37 |
| ttx | That leaves placement | 14:37 |
| mnaser | the winstackers does seem to be active though | 14:37 |
| mnaser | so i dont think powervm and winstackers is in the same spot | 14:37 |
| evrardjp | dhellmann: can we assign you all the hard tasks? I might have a queue. | 14:37 |
| ttx | mnaser: sure, but they also did not oppose to transition to SIG | 14:37 |
| mnaser | fair enough, ok, so that will fit their interest | 14:38 |
| mnaser | sounds good to me | 14:38 |
| mnaser | ok, placement. | 14:38 |
| mugsie | winstackers is very active - but I am going to step back on anything to do with them | 14:38 |
| mnaser | cdent is unable to run bc employer, edleafe is not around, and cdent couldnt find anyone | 14:38 |
| dhellmann | evrardjp : no, only the "easy but unpleasant" tasks | 14:38 |
| ttx | To me it's a clear special interest - making sure openstack runs well on windows | 14:38 |
| jungleboyj | ++ | 14:38 |
| ttx | which is NOT something openstack teams otherwise guarantee | 14:39 |
| dhellmann | wait, I thought we were talking about winstackers before? which team did I just agree to deprecate? | 14:39 |
| mugsie | powerstacker | 14:39 |
| ttx | PowerVMstackers AND winstackers | 14:39 |
| evrardjp | powerstackers | 14:39 |
| dhellmann | ok, let's finish the conversation, and I'll make 2 patches if we're doing both | 14:39 |
| ttx | Everything I said applied to both | 14:39 |
| evrardjp | so they also missed the deadlines twice? | 14:39 |
| ttx | yes | 14:39 |
| ttx | both | 14:39 |
| evrardjp | that's fine for me then. | 14:40 |
| mnaser | so: placement | 14:40 |
| dhellmann | ok, 2 patches and 1 email thread coming up | 14:40 |
| mnaser | looks like nova meeting is happening right now | 14:41 |
| gmann | yeah | 14:41 |
| mugsie | mnaser: please lets not suggest merging before we ask people ar ethey interested | 14:41 |
| mnaser | maybe someone can bring it up in the open discussion part if someone from the nova team is interested in helping | 14:41 |
| gmann | on the perfect time of placement topic :) | 14:41 |
| mnaser | mugsie: i am not suggesting merging | 14:41 |
| mnaser | i am suggesting that the ptl for nova or someoen from the nova team ptls it | 14:41 |
| ttx | I'm willing to give them an opportunity to find someone and step up, as I think it's better as a standalone team (to get adoption from other services) | 14:41 |
| gmann | i can bring there | 14:41 |
| ttx | But if they don't then yes, I'd +1 asking Nova if they would take it | 14:42 |
| mriedem | nova nearly didn't have a ptl nomination for U so asking for double duty is a stretch | 14:42 |
| evrardjp | I agree with the Frenchman again | 14:42 |
| mugsie | I would be very hesitent in agreeing to re-merge | 14:42 |
| ttx | mriedem: yes. Also it's a bit unfair after all the drama to dump it back on the Nova team, imho | 14:43 |
| ttx | should be the plan B | 14:43 |
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| mriedem | let's call it plan F | 14:43 |
| ttx | heh | 14:43 |
| zaneb | mriedem++ | 14:43 |
| ttx | I wish there was 6 options | 14:43 |
| mugsie | yeah, I see it as asking the neutron team to take octavia if there is no ptl | 14:43 |
| evrardjp | strong letter choice | 14:43 |
| jungleboyj | evrardjp: ++ | 14:44 |
| njohnston | mugsie: ++ | 14:44 |
| ricolin | mugsie, lol | 14:44 |
| johnsom | mugsie Hey now, we haven't been without a PTL since the project started..... | 14:44 |
| ttx | so plan A would be to find someone to volunteer. My discussion with gibi actually seeded my idea for multi-headed PTLs | 14:44 |
| johnsom | Just throwing that out there... | 14:44 |
| johnsom | And no, we can't take placement on either. grin | 14:45 |
| ttx | since gibi is still on placement, just not wanting all the dreaded PTL load | 14:45 |
| evrardjp | johnsom: hahaha | 14:45 |
| evrardjp | ttx: maybe that's something we should fix | 14:45 |
| zaneb | I think this highlights that we're still failing to explain the PTL role | 14:45 |
| evrardjp | but that will be a longer convo | 14:45 |
| mugsie | so, action it to reach out to people in both nova and placement to see who is interested, then we can circle back? | 14:45 |
| ttx | johnsom: mugsie is known for poor examples and misdirected blaming. He accused eavesdrop for being early to the meeting a few hours ago | 14:45 |
| zaneb | if a project has nobody working on it, that's one thing | 14:46 |
| evrardjp | mugsie: that sounds logical | 14:46 |
| mnaser | i think this highlgihts why we should kill the ptl role and just replace it by liaisons that dont have to be cycled unless they need to | 14:46 |
| ttx | johnsom: while everyone knows Outlook is to blame for everything | 14:46 |
| mnaser | but | 14:46 |
| mnaser | that's for another dicussion | 14:46 |
| zaneb | but if there are active cores, surely someone can put their name at the top | 14:46 |
| mnaser | all this is nice | 14:46 |
| mnaser | but it doesn't get us a placement ptl | 14:46 |
| johnsom | ttx So true | 14:46 |
| mugsie | mnaser: it gives us a process - lets start on the action I suggested, and go from there | 14:46 |
| mugsie | we aren't going to fix in the next 70 mins | 14:47 |
| mnaser | sorry, i missed that message | 14:47 |
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| ttx | 16:45 <mugsie> so, action it to reach out to people in both nova and placement to see who is interested, then we can circle back? | 14:47 |
| ttx | 16:45 <mugsie> so, action it to reach out to people in both nova and placement to see who is interested, then we can circle back? | 14:47 |
| ttx | oops | 14:47 |
| ttx | that works for me | 14:47 |
| mugsie | I had one item I added to the agenda - can we look at that quickly? I have to go talk to prospective PTLs in 10 mins | 14:47 |
| mugsie | (naming things) | 14:48 |
| mnaser | uh sure i was going over the email one, let me open th ewiki quick | 14:48 |
| mnaser | #topic release naming | 14:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "release naming (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:48 | |
| ttx | who takes the placement reachout action? | 14:48 |
| mnaser | mugsie: all yours | 14:48 |
| mugsie | #link https://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?num_winners=1&id=E_844843c6ddc940b7 | 14:49 |
| zaneb | mugsie: I admire your optimism to get that covered in 10 minutes | 14:49 |
| gmann | i have not checked but wondring if Tetsuro is interested for placement | 14:49 |
| mugsie | results are dependant on what algorithm we choose | 14:49 |
| mnaser | gmann / ttx / mugsie: nova and placmeent is largely the same core set so it'll probably be the same group of people answering that question | 14:49 |
| ttx | yes. | 14:49 |
| ricolin | zaneb, now be positive! | 14:49 |
| dhellmann | oh, good, so now we have to vote on how to count votes? | 14:49 |
| mugsie | it is one of : stay the same | Cites | ICAO alpha | 14:49 |
| mugsie | persia: suggested a run off election with those 3 | 14:50 |
| ttx | 5-4 | 14:50 |
| zaneb | ricolin: have you met me? | 14:50 |
| dhellmann | I think we have to say that geographic names are not working and drop that option, since we do not know where the next summits will be. | 14:50 |
| ttx | how would that change the result? | 14:50 |
| ttx | Condorcet needs no run-offs | 14:50 |
| ttx | (Not that I like this result) | 14:51 |
| dhellmann | right, that's the point of condorcet in the first place | 14:51 |
| dhellmann | this was "advisory" right? not binding? | 14:51 |
| mugsie | dhellmann: sure? | 14:51 |
| smcginnis | I like ICAO alpha, but that patch suggests changing it now, not when we wrap the alphabet. | 14:51 |
| mugsie | I honestely expected ICAO to win hands down | 14:51 |
| gmann | ttx: mnaser mugsie sorry i was typing on nova meeting too for API updates. if no one raised hand to reachout to placemrnt i can do ? | 14:51 |
| mnaser | gmann: please! :) | 14:51 |
| ttx | it is pretty tight | 14:51 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis : we need to change now because we need to decouple selection from the foundation site location process | 14:52 |
| gmann | sure. | 14:52 |
| ttx | We could do a re-run with our new membership | 14:52 |
| ricolin | gmann, sweet! | 14:52 |
| ttx | since they are the ones to live with it | 14:52 |
| njohnston | Do we need to have lawyer review of the ICAO names to make sure e.g. OpenStack Victor won't fall afoul? | 14:52 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yes, I like that | 14:52 |
| ttx | oh or.... | 14:52 |
| ricolin | ttx that's true | 14:52 |
| mnaser | njohnston: good call | 14:52 |
| smcginnis | dhellmann: In that case, I would choose cities until we wrap up Z, then ICAO names. | 14:52 |
| ttx | We propose ICAO, and we vote. If it does not pass... means we really stay | 14:52 |
| ttx | the same | 14:53 |
| ricolin | njohnston, I actually think we do | 14:53 |
| evrardjp | Is it brexit? How many times can we vote? | 14:53 |
| jungleboyj | Hmmm, I like W for ICAO. :-) | 14:53 |
| mnaser | ttx: we can either do that, or we abandon the ones that weren't popular and leave the voting to happen in Gerrit. | 14:53 |
| ttx | evrardjp: we'll need to vote on whatever change in Gerrit anyway | 14:53 |
| dhellmann | ttx: was there something about ICAO being not trademarkable, so we don't have to worry about njohnston's question? | 14:53 |
| smcginnis | To avoid end user confusion, I strongly recommend the TC votes for a new scheme for the next A-Z. | 14:53 |
| mugsie | smcginnis: yeah, that was supposed to follow on from this | 14:54 |
| ttx | dhellmann: if it's expressedly tied to teh ICAO, then I'd argue it's not, but I can have a check | 14:54 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: ++ | 14:54 |
| jungleboyj | I think if we stop naming we lose some of our identity. That is my one bit of input. | 14:54 |
| mnaser | i think that's an obviously losing choice based on the voting | 14:54 |
| mnaser | so maybe we can just abandon the choices that lost | 14:54 |
| ttx | So... how about... we propose the most popular process change (ICAO) and then if it does not pass, that means we really keep the current process up to Z | 14:54 |
| mnaser | and leave the remaining ones as a vote | 14:54 |
| mugsie | well, stop naming things basically got 0 votes :) | 14:55 |
| ttx | then we start the discussion for post-Z era | 14:55 |
| zaneb | for elections we specify the Schulze/Beatpath method | 14:55 |
| ttx | indeed | 14:55 |
| mugsie | oh, then cities won | 14:55 |
| zaneb | in which major cities comes out on top | 14:55 |
| smcginnis | Should I propose an updated one that calls out cities until we reach Z, ICAO alpha starting with the next A? | 14:55 |
| ttx | heh we managed to create a cycle. Perfect | 14:55 |
| jungleboyj | ttx ++ | 14:55 |
| ttx | And yes Schulze is a superior method for breaking them | 14:56 |
| ricolin | so one more vote to clear all concerns and live with it till Z? | 14:56 |
| mugsie | smcginnis: I would have them as separate patches | 14:56 |
| zaneb | ICAO already lost to no change | 14:56 |
| mugsie | and I am not sure about having openstack alpha / beta :P | 14:56 |
| mnaser | i think we're entering discussion territory rather than action update | 14:56 |
| jungleboyj | mugsie: ++ | 14:56 |
| gmann | :) | 14:56 |
| smcginnis | mugsie: I'm just concerned that some have indicated the choice would need to be effective immediately. | 14:56 |
| mnaser | so maybe we should close out the meeting and leave this discussion to office hours? | 14:56 |
| zaneb | major cities beat no change (but lost to ICAO) | 14:56 |
| dhellmann | mnaser : ++ | 14:56 |
| gmann | yeah | 14:57 |
| ricolin | mnaser, yep | 14:57 |
| smcginnis | And no change would get my vote for now, but not after we reach A. | 14:57 |
| ttx | that means the top 3 are extremely close | 14:57 |
| gmann | and i sleep during that :) | 14:57 |
| zaneb | (I didn't vote for major cities, FWIW) | 14:57 |
| mnaser | cool, well, thanks for attending. :) | 14:57 |
| mnaser | #endmeeting | 14:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Technical Committee office hours: Tuesdays at 09:00 UTC, Wednesdays at 01:00 UTC, and Thursdays at 15:00 UTC | https://governance.openstack.org/tc/ | channel logs http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-tc/" | 14:57 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 5 14:57:32 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2019/tc.2019-09-05-14.00.html | 14:57 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 14:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2019/tc.2019-09-05-14.00.txt | 14:57 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2019/tc.2019-09-05-14.00.log.html | 14:57 |
| gmann | zaneb: :) | 14:57 |
| jungleboyj | Thanks! | 14:57 |
| gmann | mnaser: thanks for chair | 14:57 |
| ricolin | major cities still leave some potential issues IMO | 14:57 |
| mnaser | and office hours time | 14:57 |
| smcginnis | In 3 minutes. :) | 14:58 |
| ttx | smcginnis: we do whatever we want. But I'd argue it should be the just-chosen TC membership's choice | 14:58 |
| ttx | not the past membership choice | 14:58 |
| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: remove powervmstackers team https://review.opendev.org/680438 | 14:58 |
| smcginnis | ttx: I agree. Just giving the new TC my opinion. | 14:58 |
| ttx | so we could in theory do a re-run with the 3 tied top options | 14:58 |
| *** cmurphy|afk is now known as cmurphy | 14:58 | |
| jungleboyj | We will name them after things I find funny. ;-) | 14:58 |
| zaneb | smcginnis: right, the poll was explicitly for V-Z | 14:58 |
| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: remove winstackers team https://review.opendev.org/680439 | 14:58 |
| ttx | since they are so close that they would be affected by the change in TC membership | 14:58 |
| smcginnis | I'd just like it to be clear if folks are voting on V-Z or V-A-Z. | 14:59 |
| smcginnis | I don't think that was clear, and I have a feeling there would be some slightly different results if it was. | 14:59 |
| zaneb | smcginnis: "Rank the options for choosing the name of new OpenStack releases for releases between V and Z." | 14:59 |
| ttx | It was clearly mentioned it was ONLY FOR V-Z | 14:59 |
| smcginnis | Ah, OK. | 14:59 |
| ttx | otherwise I would have voted differently | 14:59 |
| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: remove winstackers team https://review.opendev.org/680439 | 14:59 |
| ttx | (I don;t like ICAO for V-A-Z | 14:59 |
| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: remove powervmstackers team https://review.opendev.org/680438 | 15:00 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: I think we should leave it as is for V-Z and then come up with a new process for the next A-Z. | 15:00 |
| smcginnis | jungleboyj: ++ | 15:00 |
| dhellmann | mnaser : the thread on removing winstackers and powervmstackers is at http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2019-September/009127.html | 15:00 |
| jungleboyj | I could be convinced to have it be ICAO for V-Z while we figure out something better for the next Alphbetical trip. | 15:00 |
| smcginnis | But if we can't do by Summit cities due to other changes, TC selecting city names would be a good backup. | 15:00 |
| ttx | jungleboyj: I just want the pain to go away. And as someone who ran that naming in the past, it just burns out people unnecessarily | 15:00 |
| jungleboyj | ttx: Understood. That is not a pain I have experienced. | 15:01 |
| ttx | so I want a thing for V-Z where we don;t run a subjective process | 15:01 |
| mugsie | ICAO then? | 15:01 |
| ttx | mugsie: that is why I voted it #1 in my vote yes | 15:01 |
| johnsom | Just an aside to the earlier conversation about the PTL roll. I created a list of "what I did as PTL" to help others considering or becoming Octavia PTL. It is a non-trivial list of things I did/do while PTL. It's also hard to delegate much of this with small teams. | 15:01 |
| johnsom | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/HjVOFPGq/ | 15:02 |
| ttx | it was arguably the most deterministic option | 15:02 |
| mriedem | johnsom: nova also has one https://docs.openstack.org/nova/latest/contributor/ptl-guide.html | 15:02 |
| johnsom | Yeah, I know some of the projects have something a bit more formal. | 15:02 |
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| dhellmann | johnsom : it would be great to add that to the project's documentation, too | 15:03 |
| ricolin | isn't we added a new PTL guideline now, or that's still under plan? | 15:03 |
| mriedem | the amount of cat herding in nova shouldn't be the same for placement either | 15:03 |
| ttx | johnsom: how much of this difficulty to delegate is the assumption that the PTL will do it if nobody else does ? | 15:03 |
| jungleboyj | Cinder has been working on putting that together. | 15:03 |
| jungleboyj | Something like that at least. | 15:03 |
| johnsom | dhellmann Agreed, see list above lol | 15:03 |
| jungleboyj | dhellmann: ++ | 15:04 |
| johnsom | ttx Some, some degree it is "administrivia" that is "not in my wheelhouse", some is just that it's a small team doing a lot of work. | 15:04 |
| *** e0ne has quit IRC | 15:05 | |
| ttx | johnsom: was wondering if my recent "multi-headed PTL" suggestion would help or not | 15:05 |
| jungleboyj | We have been doing that informally for a while. | 15:05 |
| johnsom | A ray of hope for us is two new folks were interested in contributing to OpenStack for the first time this week. You can bet I jumped on helping them get started.... | 15:05 |
| jungleboyj | 'The Shadow PTL' | 15:05 |
| dhellmann | johnsom : if there is too much administrivia, maybe we need to take a look at whether those things are actually useful | 15:05 |
| ttx | jungleboyj: yes there is no barrier to doing that currently, but it's... comfortable for other team members to just let the PTL do it in some cases, which reinforces the fact that it's a lot of work | 15:06 |
| zaneb | johnsom: 3,4,23,30,31,33 look like the PTL's core responsibilities (and even some of those could be delegated). the rest are either everyone's responibility, or someone's responsibility regardless of whether they are PTL, or eminently delegatable | 15:06 |
| johnsom | ttx Basically Octavia is doing the multi-headed thing informally. I am still helping with a lot of those roles/tasks. | 15:06 |
| johnsom | dhellmann I agree. For example, I find ask.openstack.org to be frustrating in that it doesn't notify on specific topics, so questions show up there that don't get answered until you go look. It's also very restrictive in how you can reply, etc. Personally I would like to see that disappear. | 15:08 |
| smcginnis | johnsom: ++ | 15:08 |
| dhellmann | johnsom : oh, I never paid that any attention when I was oslo PTL. Bring questions to the mailing list. | 15:08 |
| evrardjp | zaneb: I agree on the delegation | 15:08 |
| dhellmann | or let the folks who want to use that site answer | 15:09 |
| evrardjp | johnsom: thanks for that list | 15:09 |
| evrardjp | I am diff-ing with brain right now | 15:09 |
| johnsom | Right, mailing list or even better IRC channels | 15:09 |
| njohnston | neutron has been doing the multi-headed PTL thing for a while in johnsom's list - 5, 15/16, 17, 18, 20, and 25 each have specific roles. I think that works well for a big project. I wonder if the big ones can help the small ones - instead of octavia etc. needing to have a neutron liaison, have someone from neutron check in to see if help is needed (for example) | 15:09 |
| zaneb | the notifications being broken on ask.openstack is annoying. I have reported it multiple times to no avail | 15:10 |
| ttx | johnsom: there is a group around cycle management, a group around event/meeting management, and a group around project health management | 15:10 |
| johnsom | Frankly I feel bad for the people posting there as the latency is pretty high | 15:10 |
| zaneb | (I get notifications, but about the wrong stuff. most people just started filtering them to spam) | 15:10 |
| fungi | johnsom: i get ask.o.o notifications on topics i've subscribed to (not that i'm going to defend that service as necessarily being a useful one) | 15:10 |
| ttx | zaneb: I'm trying to get it killed completely | 15:10 |
| johnsom | zaneb Same here | 15:10 |
| evrardjp | ttx: that would be nice | 15:11 |
| ttx | It generates google juice, but I'd argue that it's bad juice misdirecting people | 15:11 |
| ttx | I'd rather redirect people interested in that to answer openstack questions on serverfault | 15:11 |
| ttx | or wherever it is that openstack is covered in the SO universe | 15:12 |
| * zaneb takes a moment to mourn his ask.openstack karma | 15:12 | |
| smcginnis | Something SO based would be better IMO. | 15:12 |
| evrardjp | zaneb: :) | 15:12 |
| ttx | all the badges! | 15:12 |
| ttx | gamification is so 2008 | 15:12 |
| zaneb | my goal in life is to overtake jpichon | 15:13 |
| * ttx checks | 15:13 | |
| evrardjp | zaneb: you will be happy to finally win over those 38 downvotes. | 15:13 |
| fungi | yes, the argument in favor of ask.o.o in the past was that we needed a place to corral all the users who are disinclined to use e-mail and desire a web forum for such things | 15:13 |
| ttx | zaneb: wow you are indeed an ask master | 15:14 |
| fungi | but i question whether that's really a cross-section of the internet we need to spend our time coddling | 15:14 |
| mnaser | did we come to terms on a final decision for the release name? | 15:14 |
| ttx | mnaser: Ussuri? | 15:14 |
| ttx | (exit stage left) | 15:14 |
| mnaser | o | 15:14 |
| mnaser | no | 15:14 |
| mnaser | i meant moving forwards. | 15:14 |
| jungleboyj | *sad trombone.wav* | 15:15 |
| zaneb | ttx: I actually quite like it in principle. I help a lot more people this way than through IRC (no longer have global TZ coverage there) or mailing list (very few people post there) | 15:15 |
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| ttx | My suggestion is to bring up a new vote for the newly-chosen TC members with the 3 tied-to-the-top options | 15:15 |
| zaneb | however, notifications not working mean that latency and follow-up is poor | 15:15 |
| mnaser | that seems to be the only one actionable suggested item | 15:16 |
| ttx | (and say in advance which cycle-breaking method will be used to break things if need be :) | 15:16 |
| mnaser | anyone else has any other ideas? | 15:16 |
| johnsom | I will also throw in that storyboard has hurt more than helped. | 15:16 |
| jungleboyj | johnsom: ++ | 15:16 |
| zaneb | ttx: +1 for that suggestion. especially about specifying the cycle-breaking thing in advance ;) | 15:16 |
| zaneb | yeah, unfortunately I think that's true about storyboard | 15:17 |
| njohnston | ttx: +1 from me as well | 15:17 |
| evrardjp | johnsom: I would agree with you | 15:17 |
| ttx | but yeah, those options are so close in the current poll that the lines are sure to move once we introduce a couple of new voters | 15:17 |
| mnaser | ok, fair enough | 15:18 |
| ricolin | +1 on have a new poll with new TC voters | 15:19 |
| ttx | Also make it even clearer that it is V-Z we are talking about | 15:19 |
| jungleboyj | ricolin: ttx ++ | 15:20 |
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| evrardjp | johnsom: if you were to say that, in your list of things to do as PTL, you couldn't delegate an item, what would that one/those ones be? I think 24/25/30 | 15:22 |
| evrardjp | and 35. | 15:22 |
| evrardjp | (that would have been my case, not sure about yours) | 15:22 |
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| zaneb | 3 & 4 can't be delegated | 15:23 |
| ttx | hmm not sure | 15:23 |
| ttx | PTG things for example could be delegated to someone handling all meetings | 15:23 |
| johnsom | Yeah 4 really, since those are sent privately. Otherwise, I'm not sure any of it *can't* be delegated.... | 15:23 |
| ttx | we could send them to an "event liaison" | 15:24 |
| zaneb | ttx: well right now the foundation will send them (often off-list) to the contact point, and that's the PTL. I'm fine if that's the one thing that people are signing up for as PTL | 15:25 |
| johnsom | ttx There would be value in formalized mailing lists. We also get left out of a bunch or foundation e-mail. Survey questions for example. | 15:25 |
| ttx | As long as we have an email, we should be fine | 15:25 |
| ttx | but yes, by default it would land on PTL | 15:25 |
| ttx | we had cases in the past where PTL could not be at PTG and delegated all contacts | 15:26 |
| fungi | the main reasons those are sent to the ptls are: 1. many ptls are not so good about paying attention to general announcements on mailing lists, and 2. the risk that more than one person on a large team takes it upon themselves to duplicate that work and submit extra/conflicting information to the event organizers | 15:26 |
| fungi | so long as there's a clear single point of contact *or* some means of coordinating to ensure correct and timely responses, then i'm sure it could be someone other than ptls | 15:27 |
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| njohnston | Point of personal curiosity: do we know if there is a timeline for the announcement for the V summit location? Will it be in Shanghai? | 15:32 |
| ttx | still very much in flux. But yes i certainly hope that by Shanghai we can present the event plan for 2020 | 15:33 |
| njohnston | ttx: Thanks! | 15:33 |
| ttx | there should be some discussion about that at next week Board meeting fwiw | 15:34 |
| jungleboyj | ttx: ++ I know that would be helpful for me and my company to know that plan. | 15:41 |
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| evrardjp | johnsom: very valuable input, because you are basically crystallizing what I have been thinking and living for a while. | 15:50 |
| johnsom | evrardjp Cool. Happy to throw my $0.02 in | 15:51 |
| evrardjp | it's worth more than that | 15:55 |
| evrardjp | mugsie: so for the sync | 15:59 |
| evrardjp | we have one minute remaining | 15:59 |
| evrardjp | https://review.opendev.org/#/c/673019/3 | 15:59 |
| mugsie | ah - that looks good | 16:00 |
| evrardjp | We are missing all the things to arrive to that patch, not sure what you are addressing, I assume 5 | 16:00 |
| evrardjp | (on the commend from smcginnis) | 16:00 |
| evrardjp | comment* | 16:00 |
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| mugsie | I was doing a lot of ^ in the releases repo, so it had the releases.yaml file to get the name from | 16:01 |
| mugsie | but - I think we can work somethign into ^ (maybe adding the releases repo as a job requirement, so it is cloned by zuul | 16:02 |
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| evrardjp | mugsie: I can't fully remember, but I think this was runned on the releases repo, so you had immediately the things | 16:06 |
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| dhellmann | the release tools need to stay in project-config because they run with special privileges, but that job can clone the releases repo to get data | 16:08 |
| mugsie | yeah, so the job that runs the "make_branch" job, would need to have requried-projects: openstack/releases to get the series_status.yaml file | 16:14 |
| dhellmann | it may already clone that repo; I don't remember | 16:17 |
| mugsie | yeah, I am having trouble tracking down the job ... I had it book marked, but I can;t find it now | 16:17 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : we're currently discussing evrardjp's patch in #openstack-release | 16:18 |
| evrardjp | I think the job is running on releases anyway, so files are available .. but yeah, to another channel! | 16:19 |
| evrardjp | thanks dhellmann for the reminder of the channel switch :) | 16:20 |
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| cdent | gmann: I feel like you jumped a gun the bit on the placement ptl message, so I've responded on the list | 16:21 |
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| mriedem | fyi on the whole closing osc gaps thing, | 16:43 |
| mriedem | the mass open cloud NU/BU mentor project thing i submitted has a draft available https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Punt4597VtAndhkwDbG-XrfBQUcXJE-Jmzg2vMIW8Ws/edit | 16:43 |
| mriedem | please don't edit, should be read-only and formal by tomorrow, | 16:43 |
| mriedem | but point for the tc is (1) they want to support up to 5 mentees, which would effectively make this a pop-up team, | 16:44 |
| mriedem | and (2) it's focused on just the identified compute api gaps in osc but with 5 people contributing thats probably more than what those compute api gaps give them to work on, so might need help from other teams, like cinder | 16:44 |
| mriedem | iow, i'm hedging my bets on this | 16:44 |
| mriedem | the real struggle is going to be an influx of patches with like me and dtroyer only doing reviews and these students sitting twiiddling their thumbs waiting for reviews | 16:45 |
| cdent | the struggle is real | 16:46 |
| mriedem | the threat is real https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_8:_The_Threat_Is_Real | 16:46 |
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| dtroyer | mriedem: careful or you'll be on another core team… :) | 16:55 |
| mriedem | that just means ignoring reviews as a core rather than not a core :) | 16:56 |
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| openstackgerrit | Jeremy Stanley proposed openstack/governance master: Update projects.yaml for Ussuri PTLs https://review.opendev.org/680507 | 20:34 |
| fungi | mugsie: ^ | 20:34 |
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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Gerrit is being restarted to pick up configuration changes. Should be quick. Sorry for the interruption. | 21:15 | |
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| claudiub | Hello. Regarding the winstackers team removal. Sorry for missing the PTL nomination, I was under the impression that the deadline was this week. :( To be fair, my focus has shifted more towards Kubernetes at the moment, which would explain my lack of activity and being out of sync with the release schedule. If it is possible, Lucian Petrut could possibly take over in my stead. | 22:16 |
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| claudiub | He's been a core in most Windows / Hyper-V related things alongside me, and he's at least as knowledgeable as me, and best of all, he's still active. | 22:16 |
| fungi | claudiub: do you think winstackers would be more appropriate as a sig producing openstack-related support software for using openstack on/with windows, rather than as a team producing deliverable components of openstack? | 22:18 |
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| claudiub | hm, we do indeed deliver OpenStack support on Windows, but we also deliver os-win, which is a library which is currently being consumed by quite a few projects, including nova, os-brick, cinder, glance, ceilometer, designate, and networking_hyperv (which is in the Winstackers governance), so technically, it is a deliverable component, IMO, which requires maintenance, updates, bugfixes, etc. | 22:25 |
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| fungi | i agree, that does make the sig proposition tricky | 22:26 |
| claudiub | once again, I apologise for my negligence. :) | 22:28 |
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