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| ricolin | good afternoon all | 05:52 |
|---|---|---|
| ricolin | o/ | 05:52 |
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| evrardjp | I will miss the office hours today folks, sorry | 05:59 |
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| openstackgerrit | Tom Barron proposed openstack/governance master: Add Goal Champions investment opportunity for 2019 https://review.opendev.org/680985 | 09:41 |
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| ricolin | o/ | 13:47 |
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| jroll | may be a bit late for office hours, I've just realized I have another 2 hours of meetings after that so I should probably eat :) | 14:43 |
| asettle | o/ | 14:49 |
| asettle | I think I'll miss office hours today, I have some old friends arriving in town at 4pm | 14:49 |
| * mugsie is fighting terraform, so will be in and out of the meeting | 14:49 | |
| * asettle puts money on terraform | 14:50 | |
| asettle | Goooo terraform! | 14:50 |
| * mugsie puts money on terraform as well | 14:50 | |
| asettle | oof mate | 14:51 |
| jroll | made it. fastest sandwich maker on the TC. | 14:56 |
| asettle | Put that on your resume | 14:59 |
| jroll | you don't think it's there already? pft | 14:59 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 15:00 |
| asettle | jroll, my mistake :p | 15:00 |
| jroll | :P | 15:00 |
| mnaser | o/ | 15:00 |
| jroll | so given it's office hours, just a heads up: ttx and I completed archiving stale github mirrors this morning | 15:01 |
| ricolin | o/ | 15:01 |
| jungleboyj | That sounds like fun. | 15:02 |
| jroll | it was pretty cathartic :P | 15:03 |
| jungleboyj | Catharsis is a good thing. | 15:05 |
| ttx | o/ | 15:05 |
| ttx | so many non-openstack things | 15:05 |
| ttx | If you hear complaints, redirect them to http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2019-September/009615.html | 15:06 |
| mugsie | RIP kosmos :) | 15:06 |
| ttx | ailuropoda, we'll miss you | 15:07 |
| zaneb | o/ | 15:07 |
| ttx | So ni the news, we'll go ahead and organize some form of "Meet project leaders" event in Shanghai during the mixer on the first day and Wednesday lunch | 15:08 |
| ttx | It's not just the TC, we could have elected leadership from other projects, PTLs... | 15:09 |
| mugsie | ttx: ++ | 15:09 |
| ttx | Details will be coming but the idea would be to run it twice to give everyone a chance | 15:09 |
| ttx | (Monday marketplace mixer + Wednesday lunch) | 15:09 |
| jroll | nice! I like it | 15:10 |
| ttx | we are still thinking of a visible way to say "talk to me" | 15:10 |
| ttx | stickers on badges are likely not visible enough | 15:10 |
| mugsie | some sort of hat with a neon down arrow? | 15:10 |
| ttx | yeah that would be my preference | 15:10 |
| zaneb | ++ | 15:10 |
| ttx | Or some giant ribbon | 15:10 |
| ricolin | An arrow hat, that's fun:) | 15:11 |
| jungleboyj | ttx ++ | 15:11 |
| ttx | Also I'll make sure the location is mentioned on the schedule | 15:11 |
| ttx | so that we are easily found (hopefully) | 15:11 |
| jungleboyj | That sounds great. | 15:11 |
| ricolin | zaneb and mugsie are easily found, so maybe I can just stay nearby;) | 15:12 |
| mugsie | well, according to asettle we are the 2 loudest people on the TC :P | 15:12 |
| ricolin | len(rico+arrow)<len(zane) | 15:13 |
| ttx | did we decide on the October meeting day? | 15:13 |
| mugsie | i filled in a survey, but not seen any output | 15:13 |
| zaneb | mugsie: tc + board apparently | 15:13 |
| ttx | Our chair is traveling today | 15:13 |
| mugsie | and that was with mordred in the room | 15:13 |
| ttx | evrardjp: let us know asap | 15:13 |
| zaneb | I think whatever we choose should be as humiliating as possible, both to make us seem more approachable and also to piss off mnaser :P | 15:14 |
| * jungleboyj giggles | 15:14 | |
| ttx | zaneb: a dunk tank? | 15:14 |
| jungleboyj | Oh man! | 15:15 |
| * zaneb is gonna regret this | 15:15 | |
| mnaser | >:( | 15:15 |
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| mnaser | so uh, what came out of that name discussion? | 15:17 |
| mnaser | i've been mostly watching from the sidelines but it seems like it has pretty much stalled out | 15:17 |
| * ricolin just filled the survey | 15:17 | |
| mugsie | V->Z ? | 15:17 |
| zaneb | we narrowed it down to one, but there's no consensus on whether we should merge. also it needs a rebase | 15:18 |
| zaneb | and ttx added another option for W->Z | 15:18 |
| mugsie | yeah, stalled. not enough of a majority to call it a win yet | 15:18 |
| zaneb | actually just W-> I think | 15:18 |
| ttx | V + W-> | 15:18 |
| * ricolin wish will be Vancouver too:) | 15:19 | |
| ttx | until it's replaced again | 15:19 |
| openstackgerrit | Mohammed Naser proposed openstack/governance master: check-review-status: update age calc https://review.opendev.org/684784 | 15:19 |
| ricolin | I mean for V | 15:19 |
| ttx | mnaser: https://review.opendev.org/#/c/684688/ | 15:19 |
| ttx | mnaser: we arrived to the conclusion that none of the proposed options seems to beat "keep it the same", so we need to come up with new things | 15:20 |
| mnaser | going back now i actually think the version number ain't so bad | 15:20 |
| ttx | mnaser: boo. That's because you don;t like fun | 15:20 |
| mugsie | we would have to renumber all the projects as well | 15:21 |
| mnaser | renumbering projects doesnt seem *that* crazy, and they really don't have to renumber if they dont want to | 15:21 |
| ttx | Also worth noting: Jonathan Bryce offered to run the naming process if we find it too painful | 15:21 |
| mugsie | or OpenStack 2 would have nova 28, designate 12, and trove 14 | 15:21 |
| * jungleboyj is laughing | 15:21 | |
| mnaser | who knows what version of cyborg ships in openstack newton? | 15:21 |
| jungleboyj | Movie quotes. That is creative. | 15:21 |
| ttx | so handling hate mail should not be the right reason to drop fun naming | 15:21 |
| mugsie | mnaser: no one, but we know that it is the newton version of cyborg | 15:21 |
| ttx | jungleboyj: I know right | 15:22 |
| mnaser | or heck what cinder version in newton? | 15:22 |
| ttx | cinder 9 | 15:22 |
| mnaser | i always pull up releases.openstack.org | 15:22 |
| mugsie | we don't use the numbers *becuase* we have an overall noame for the set of versions | 15:22 |
| mugsie | if you have 2 numbers that will be a complete crapshoot | 15:22 |
| mugsie | overall name* | 15:23 |
| ttx | well yes. But saying "Cinder version in Newton is 9" is better than "Cinder version in 8 is 2" | 15:23 |
| jungleboyj | That would be confusing. | 15:23 |
| jungleboyj | ttx: ++ | 15:23 |
| ttx | and also not fun at all | 15:23 |
| mugsie | super confusing | 15:23 |
| mnaser | so then lets bump em all and call it a day :> | 15:23 |
| ttx | mnaser: that ship has sailed... a looong time ago | 15:23 |
| mnaser | i didn't know ttx had that much fun running releaes name things | 15:23 |
| mnaser | :p | 15:23 |
| ttx | I don't, but I appreciate that others do | 15:23 |
| mugsie | and it was a vocal minority that had issues, and kicked all this off | 15:24 |
| ttx | I should try to find the old ML discussion when we stopped syncing release numbers between components | 15:24 |
| mugsie | it was when we moved from date to numbers right? | 15:24 |
| mnaser | alright well im happy for us to keep having fun as long as we don't hold the keys to what makes it to the poll and what doesn't | 15:25 |
| ttx | yes. All shared same date (except Swift, because Swift is... different) | 15:25 |
| mnaser | because that kills the fun for other people | 15:25 |
| mugsie | mnaser: I really don't see that as an issue wither | 15:25 |
| mugsie | either* | 15:25 |
| mnaser | "hey we're a community, please bring up your release name ideas!" | 15:25 |
| mnaser | "thanks for your suggestions but we're just going to poll on the ones we decide to put in" | 15:25 |
| ttx | we switched from 2015.1 to version numbers in Liberty | 15:25 |
| ttx | So Kilo was just an alias to 2015.1 really | 15:26 |
| mugsie | "hey we are a communty, please come with feature suggestions" "thats for those we are going to reduce the number we are going to consider for good reasons" | 15:26 |
| mugsie | thanks for those* | 15:26 |
| jungleboyj | I think we need to keep something unique as it is very much part of OpenStack's identity. | 15:27 |
| mnaser | i'm just not comfortable holding some fancy super power that gets to decide what goes in and what doesn't, which was teh biggest issue last time | 15:27 |
| jungleboyj | Like Android using deserts. | 15:27 |
| ttx | mnaser: agree, taht's why I proposed an objective criteria | 15:27 |
| mnaser | right, yeah | 15:27 |
| ttx | but it can be fun AND have an objective criteria | 15:27 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 15:27 |
| ttx | just have to find a creative space, hence... movie quotes | 15:27 |
| mugsie | mnaser: again, from a vocal minority. 99% of the community couldn't care, and probably thing this whole escapde is a waste of time | 15:28 |
| jungleboyj | mugsie: This is why we can't have nice things. | 15:28 |
| mugsie | and don't care if we have a "super power" | 15:28 |
| * mnaser sighs | 15:29 | |
| mnaser | ok, so unless everyone complains, we ignore a vocal miniority, got it | 15:29 |
| ttx | People outside of my bubble assure me that having a naming contest is fun and a good thing | 15:29 |
| mugsie | mnaser: no, but we don';t take a small amount of push back as "the whole community" | 15:29 |
| ttx | Anyway, I think Vancouver gives us some time to get it right, so nu hurry | 15:30 |
| mugsie | ttx: ++ | 15:30 |
| mnaser | so | 15:30 |
| mnaser | in other subjects | 15:30 |
| mnaser | i've been thinking about how little weird the governance has become in terms of board/openstack/osf projects | 15:31 |
| jungleboyj | ttx ++ Good timing on Vancouver and I hope there won't be objections. | 15:31 |
| mnaser | the tc is defined to be there for the board, but really its made up of nothing but openstack-world members | 15:31 |
| mriedem | random butting in since jimmy isn't in -dev, is there a place to see the list of selected forum sessions? i don't see anything about forum filters in the schedule on the summit site. | 15:31 |
| ttx | jamesmcarthur: ^ | 15:32 |
| mriedem | oh nvm, i'll go to -dev | 15:32 |
| jamesmcarthur | mriedem: we haven't finalized that yet :) | 15:32 |
| jamesmcarthur | the Forum Selection Committee is still reviewing | 15:33 |
| mnaser | so i'm thinking we can redefine the openstack tc to be the "openstack foundation tc" which hopefully can provide actual technical things to the board, "formed" by a few members from each osf project | 15:33 |
| mnaser | and then each osf project continues to have their own governance | 15:33 |
| mnaser | so openstack/governance remains what it is, but osf/tc is kata+airship+openstack+zuul | 15:33 |
| ttx | mnaser: so we already have a "cross-leadership" group | 15:33 |
| mugsie | the board has clearly indicated they didn't want that in the past, but it could be interesting, depending on its scope | 15:33 |
| zaneb | mnaser: isn't it up to the board? they already considered something like that and decided not to | 15:34 |
| ttx | it is invited at the Board meeting | 15:34 |
| ttx | I'm not sure we need to do anything from our side | 15:34 |
| ttx | I advised them to not invite every TC member | 15:34 |
| mnaser | the board doesn't exactly control the tc, does it? | 15:34 |
| mriedem | jamesmcarthur: ack thanks | 15:34 |
| mnaser | the tc can stay the same thing it is | 15:34 |
| mnaser | *we* can redefine the current tc with its charter and form these subgroups within it | 15:34 |
| mugsie | the board indicated it wanted the osf projects to be goverened directly from the board | 15:35 |
| ttx | mnaser: I don;t know what authority we'd have to redefine governance for other projects | 15:35 |
| ttx | even if it is to include them | 15:35 |
| mnaser | thats the thing, we don't redefine the governance for other projects, nor do we want to govern them | 15:35 |
| ttx | The situation currently is: | 15:35 |
| mugsie | what do you see this TC doing that isn't being done? | 15:35 |
| ttx | Each OSF project has their own leadership. Only one of them happens to be mentioned in the bylaws | 15:35 |
| ttx | and that is fine | 15:35 |
| ttx | because bylaws changes are expensive enough | 15:36 |
| * mugsie has ideas, but needs to flesh them out a bit, and knows they would be rejected by the board | 15:36 | |
| ttx | I'm also against vanity governance groups | 15:36 |
| ttx | I'm not sure what a "OpenStack OSF TC" would do | 15:36 |
| ttx | Rules of governance is that you should have a governance body at levels where decisions need to be taken | 15:37 |
| mugsie | ttx: honestly. I think it would have osf projects to a higher standard for inclusion in the osf than the board will | 15:37 |
| mugsie | would hold* | 15:37 |
| mnaser | oh | 15:37 |
| mnaser | "The management of the technical matters relating to the OpenStack Project shall be managed by the Technical Committee." | 15:37 |
| mnaser | i didnt know it said "the OpenStack Project" there | 15:37 |
| ttx | mugsie: ah, ok, you'd like to create a governance body that vets OSF projects. That is different | 15:37 |
| ttx | mnaser: yes it is very specific | 15:38 |
| mugsie | like, and have thought about are two different things :) | 15:38 |
| mnaser | ttx: yes but the idea is to have a group (which is representative of the current groups) to help vet these things | 15:38 |
| ttx | we kind of have that with the current form. Project Leadership is invited by board and their input taken into account | 15:39 |
| ttx | But we could formalize it | 15:39 |
| mnaser | (not that i have anything against kata or zuul and keep me in check but i dont remember this happening) | 15:39 |
| ttx | That would likely end up with silly conflicts as to how many seats openstack should have vs. Kata | 15:39 |
| ttx | but why not | 15:39 |
| mnaser | i'm not stuck to the idea | 15:40 |
| ttx | That would be a board decision though. We've gone through a two-year long process to define how projects get added, piloted and confirmed. Not sure it wants to reopen that box so soon | 15:40 |
| mnaser | i'm not attached to it but i was curious what others thought of it | 15:41 |
| mugsie | I raised it in Denver - the feedback at the time was a solid no | 15:43 |
| mnaser | fair enough | 15:46 |
| mnaser | anyone else has any fun topics or did i burn out everyone already? :) | 15:46 |
| jungleboyj | *crickets* | 15:47 |
| ttx | mnaser: how is AnisbleFest? | 15:49 |
| mnaser | ttx: it was pretty interesting but i'd have to say like i mentioned earlier, we do things so differently (four opens) | 15:50 |
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| mnaser | the contributor summit was nice but it was very much like "this is what we're doing, and this is our roadmap, please align yourself" which REALLY felt weird compared to what we do | 15:50 |
| mugsie | yeah, open source driven by a company with an existing product is always a little weird :) | 15:51 |
| mugsie | unfortunately sometimes people think that is the way to do things when they see sucessful projects | 15:51 |
| mnaser | and in all transparency, this is fine, there's nothing wrong with it, it just really hit how different we do things :) | 15:52 |
| jungleboyj | Interesting. | 15:52 |
| mugsie | yeah, I forget sometimes when I go into other projects though :) | 15:53 |
| mnaser | people still use openstack believe it or not :) | 15:53 |
| mugsie | no way | 15:53 |
| mugsie | :P | 15:53 |
| ricolin | I was talking with aspiers about project liasons for self-healing SIG and he mention about got idea from TCs saying that project liasons for SIG is a common topic that we might need to solve for SIGs | 15:53 |
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| aspiers | Yes, not just for SIGs but potentially for every project and WG too | 15:54 |
| * mugsie keeps meaning to write a stats post about how we are not "dead" or a "telco only" project | 15:54 | |
| ricolin | Anyone got any background to share? | 15:54 |
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| mugsie | we sid we should look at it in Denver afaik | 15:54 |
| mugsie | said* | 15:54 |
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| * mnaser still has many customers that still very much come who needs openstack | 15:55 | |
| aspiers | ricolin: I started coding an IRC "profilebot" where you could attach #hashtags to your own IRC nick, and then people could search for overlapping hashtags | 15:55 |
| mugsie | we could update the tooling to show it, but need a good way of getting the info into the governance repo to map tc<->sig | 15:55 |
| mnaser | and its not out of historical context, its a "well we need some infra and there's no other solution for it" | 15:55 |
| * jungleboyj still has many customers wanting OpenStack | 15:55 | |
| aspiers | ricolin: I talked to ttx / fungi / maybe others about it, and IIRC fungi / ttx made the good point that maybe this data belongs somewhere better than an IRC bot | 15:56 |
| aspiers | e.g. it could form part of people's OpenStack profile | 15:56 |
| mugsie | mnaser: yeap. even the hyper scale providers solutions for on prem / disconnected are in their nacent forms | 15:56 |
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| aspiers | ricolin: e.g. it could be updated via REST API from a web app or IRC bot or CLI or ... | 15:57 |
| mugsie | aspiers: oh, so people with interests in #designate #self-healing and #apis could tag that on the profile page ? | 15:57 |
| aspiers | "<aspiers> profilebot: search #self-healing #designate" | 15:58 |
| mugsie | thats interesting | 15:58 |
| aspiers | "<profilebot> aspiers: these people have those hashtags: mugsie" | 15:58 |
| aspiers | plenty of scope for hashtags here, e.g. #ptl, #core, #suse, #foundation, #operator etc. etc. | 15:59 |
| aspiers | of course this would be opt-in, but I imagine many people would be happy to opt in | 15:59 |
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| ricolin | aspiers, I actually like that idea, the problem will be how can we make people to use it:) | 15:59 |
| aspiers | now we just need fungi to remind me how difficult that might be to host within the OpenStack profiles db :) | 15:59 |
| aspiers | ricolin: I don't think it would be too hard, e.g. I found a lot of people started using the new ptgbot features immediately | 16:00 |
| aspiers | ricolin: if it delivers real value, people will come | 16:00 |
| aspiers | if not, oh well - we built the wrong thing ;-) | 16:00 |
| evrardjp | hey. reading log. On top of my travel, my laptop crashed I had to reset it. I can't reach my work environment yet. | 16:02 |
| evrardjp | glad I have irc on my phone for once. | 16:02 |
| aspiers | evrardjp: Yeah, my cat ate my workstation which is why I can't do any work | 16:02 |
| ricolin | aspiers, I mean I don't think we reveal those functionality enough like a dictionary doc that people can just go and find it, also do we have any doc for new joiner? | 16:02 |
| aspiers | ricolin: we could certainly include it in our on-boarding docs and training, yes | 16:02 |
| jungleboyj | Seems like a good idea. | 16:02 |
| evrardjp | aspiers too soon for that joke. | 16:03 |
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| aspiers | evrardjp: sorry :-o X-D | 16:03 |
| jungleboyj | aspiers: ++ | 16:03 |
| ricolin | aspiers, and I got three cats.... | 16:03 |
| aspiers | ricolin: and n-3 workstations? ;-p | 16:04 |
| ricolin | hahaha | 16:04 |
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| jungleboyj | Must be big cats. :-) | 16:10 |
| aspiers | At least they will be after eating workstations ;-) | 16:10 |
| jungleboyj | *Laughing* | 16:12 |
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| aspiers | ricolin: ah, I found a tiny remnant of the previous conversation with fungi: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-ptg/%23openstack-ptg.2019-04-29.log.html#t2019-04-29T04:18:29 | 16:39 |
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| mugsie | looking at the amount of work the volunteers who do k8s releases just had to do for a security release, I am glad we decided not to ship / support openstack binaries from the community | 16:50 |
| mugsie | also make me really glad for the work the release team have done to make all of this so frictonless (for the projects at least) | 16:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Appointing Nicolas Bock as Designate PTL https://review.opendev.org/682878 | 21:48 |
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