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| openstackgerrit | Rico Lin proposed openstack/governance-sigs master: Add SIG guideline https://review.opendev.org/695366 | 03:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | Rico Lin proposed openstack/governance-sigs master: Tag advisory status for SIGs https://review.opendev.org/695625 | 04:22 |
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| openstackgerrit | Rico Lin proposed openstack/governance-sigs master: Add SIG guideline https://review.opendev.org/695366 | 04:56 |
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| openstackgerrit | Rico Lin proposed openstack/governance-sigs master: Tag advisory status for SIGs https://review.opendev.org/695625 | 07:38 |
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| evrardjp | o/ | 09:36 |
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| njohnston | o/ | 13:25 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/project-team-guide master: Elaborate on Extended Maintenance to EOL transition https://review.opendev.org/682381 | 14:10 |
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| rosmaita | anyone around who's familiar with the stable branch phases? cinder has ocata & pike in EM, and are interested in not maintaining them anymore | 15:35 |
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| rosmaita | do we announce that they are now 'Unmaintained' on the ML to start the 6 month clock? | 15:35 |
| rosmaita | i'm looking here to get my info: https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html | 15:39 |
| njohnston | y | 15:53 |
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| njohnston | sorry wrong window | 15:53 |
| mriedem | rosmaita: not really defined. the resolution mentions it but not the 6 month window thing that is in the link above. https://governance.openstack.org/tc/resolutions/20180301-stable-branch-eol.html | 15:59 |
| mriedem | i'm not sure how other projects have done eol after em was a thing, tonyb would know | 15:59 |
| mriedem | so ML is the bare minimum i think, | 16:00 |
| mriedem | it would probably not be terrible to throw something at the top of the cinder docs home page for ocata https://docs.openstack.org/cinder/ocata/ and pike https://docs.openstack.org/cinder/pike/ saying essentially the branch/release is unmaintained and will go end of life on whatever date | 16:01 |
| mriedem | rosmaita: also if you look at the releases doc for pike https://releases.openstack.org/pike/index.html#service-projects cinder is listed as in extended maintenance, so there is likely some way to change that to unmaintained? | 16:02 |
| mriedem | dhellmann: ^? | 16:02 |
| mriedem | my guess is that's based on the pike-em tag though | 16:02 |
| mriedem | and we don't have like a pike-unmaintained tag | 16:02 |
| rosmaita | mriedem: thanks for looking into this | 16:04 |
| rosmaita | i also had a question about how 'unmaintained' is described, it says basically EM but with no maintainers | 16:04 |
| rosmaita | i guess the real thing is no CI guarantee | 16:05 |
| mriedem | yeah i think the idea is it's like a final deprecation style period, more for signaling than anything, to move off it because it's going away | 16:05 |
| mriedem | no guarantees | 16:06 |
| mriedem | and if within that window some benevolent team shows up and kicks ass and wants to keep it alive and the project team is ok with that, then it can be put back into EM | 16:06 |
| gmann | o/ | 16:06 |
| mriedem | but that's likely not going to happen else it wouldn't be going to Unmaintained in the first place | 16:06 |
| rosmaita | right | 16:07 |
| rosmaita | also, if while it's Unmaintained, if some kind of security bug is found and the cinder team decided we should backport it as a public service, would that move it back to EM? | 16:07 |
| mriedem | no i don't think so | 16:08 |
| rosmaita | i guess the real issue is the CI | 16:08 |
| mriedem | we (nova) have lots of open backports sitting in ocata and pike that are there for people to use (suse has a couple they really want to land in pike) but that doesn't mean they'll ever merge | 16:08 |
| rosmaita | tosky thinks that ocata may start breaking all over the place soon | 16:08 |
| mriedem | b/c red hat is at queens now so they don't care about ocata or pike | 16:08 |
| gmann | yeah, moving unmaintained ->Em->unmaintained is confusing. I fell unmaintained window should be shrink to 1 or 2 month max instead if 6. | 16:09 |
| gmann | of 6 | 16:09 |
| tosky | the ocata branch of devstack lacks a few changes, because most of the zuul v3 work started in pike (or it was backported to pike), but ocata was left a bit on the edge of two worlds | 16:09 |
| rosmaita | i see, so if we remove the CI from o & p, that would make the backport patches not real useful, because they didn't run against the check | 16:09 |
| mriedem | unit tests are a possibility for unmaintained | 16:10 |
| tosky | so the more we go with native zuul v3 and we start to use "newer" functions, ocata may just break | 16:10 |
| mriedem | when we talked about this in whatever older summit, we said that tempest can move on once a branch hits EM and that could mean breakages in the EM branches and unit tests might be the only things we can run | 16:10 |
| mriedem | it's a sliding scale of support | 16:10 |
| rosmaita | gmann: yes, the 6 month window is why i am worried about this now | 16:10 |
| gmann | ocata CI should be ok with legacy jobs, all legacy jobs are kept for ocata | 16:11 |
| mriedem | the 6 month window is large, especially given there is a note for EM, i.e. skip EM and just go straight to jail (EOL) https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html#extended-maintenance | 16:11 |
| mriedem | so it's weird that you can skip EM and go to EOL but EM->Unmaintained->EOL is a 6 month window | 16:11 |
| mriedem | i think tonyb wrote the unmaintained phase docs so i blame him | 16:11 |
| tosky | gmann: but this means we can't clean openstack-zuul-jobs | 16:11 |
| tosky | uhm, I wonder why the rule about moving back from unmaintained to EM was added; I personally think that unmaintained should be one way only, but ok | 16:12 |
| gmann | tosky: yes. but same case it will be for long time because many stable branches use legacy jobs like stable/train | 16:12 |
| tosky | gmann: that's why I added "make sure nothing prevents the new native jobs from being backportable" in the proposed goal | 16:12 |
| gmann | +1 | 16:13 |
| mriedem | tosky: likely because anytime we as a community have ever talked about EOLing a branch, someone like oracle would show up and be like "OH NO YOU CANNOT DO THIS TO US!!!" | 16:13 |
| mriedem | so it's like i said above, a last gasp signal that the branch is going away | 16:13 |
| tosky | as a QE, working downstream means I should be happy that an upstream branch is kept alive longer, but I think we went a bit too far in the other direction :) | 16:14 |
| mriedem | if you want to be locked in a room with the same vendors complaining about EOL every gd summit forever, be my guest | 16:15 |
| mriedem | rosmaita: this is the review that added the unmaintained wording https://review.opendev.org/#/c/552733/ | 16:15 |
| mriedem | if you want to try to glean discussion out of it | 16:15 |
| tosky | mriedem: I understand it could be extremely painful, I agree | 16:16 |
| rosmaita | mriedem: thanks | 16:16 |
| mriedem | https://review.opendev.org/#/c/682381/ came later | 16:16 |
| mriedem | rosmaita: based on that ^ there is a caveat where you can just skip unmaintained | 16:16 |
| mriedem | like skipping EM | 16:16 |
| mriedem | would be helpful if smcginnis or ttx could comment on those since there weren't a lot of people on the review discussing it (like myself or tonyb) | 16:17 |
| mriedem | so we clearly have a conflict here https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html#unmaintained since it says "Projects that remain in this state for 6 months will be transitioned to End of Life." and https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html#end-of-life says "or a team decides to explicitly end support for a branch," | 16:18 |
| mriedem | unless the former just means, unmaintained -> eol automatically after 6 months | 16:18 |
| mriedem | i'm assuming it does | 16:18 |
| rosmaita | that's how i was reading it | 16:18 |
| mriedem | though nothing about this is automatic :) a human still has to push the releases repo patch to eol the branch | 16:18 |
| tosky | I read it that way (one way is automatic, the other is a choice, both applies) | 16:18 |
| mriedem | ok, yeah so in that case rosmaita you can just push patches to the releases repo to eol the cinder deliverables for pike and ocata | 16:19 |
| mriedem | and probably a courtesy email to the ML | 16:19 |
| rosmaita | mriedem: i don't see that "or a team decides" language on https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html#end-of-life | 16:21 |
| gmann | does not that confusing from release site saying pike is EM and Ocata is UM but Cinder pike and Ocatca is actually EOL. should we add in release site too ? | 16:22 |
| mriedem | gmann: i think the release site docs are generated based on the tags per project | 16:26 |
| mriedem | rosmaita: refresh the cache? | 16:26 |
| mriedem | "After a project/branch exceeds the time allocation as Unmaintained, or a team decides to explicitly end support for a branch, it will become End of Life. The HEAD of the appropriate branch will be tagged as $series-eol and the branch deleted." | 16:26 |
| rosmaita | mriedem: yep, that's what i get for never closing my browser tabs | 16:27 |
| rosmaita | ok, so i read that language like matt does, as a team can decide to EOL a branch without going EM->Unmaintained first | 16:28 |
| gmann | yeah until people go into the cycle specific details. from top page it shows the single status. the overall status of cycle change when all projects move? half or most of them ? https://releases.openstack.org/ | 16:29 |
| mriedem | gmann: idk because we've not hit that yet | 16:30 |
| gmann | yeah. | 16:30 |
| mriedem | it probably becomes pretty serious though if devstack doesn't work on said branch | 16:30 |
| gmann | rosmaita: EM->EOL i read but where it is mentioned about directly go to EOL skipping EM and unmaintained ? | 16:31 |
| * gmann oh devstack still has newton branch | 16:31 | |
| mriedem | https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html#end-of-life is where i quoted above | 16:32 |
| mriedem | refresh your browser | 16:32 |
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| rosmaita | gmann: there's a "Note" in the EM section | 16:33 |
| gmann | i see | 16:33 |
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| openstackgerrit | Rico Lin proposed openstack/governance-sigs master: Tag advisory status for SIGs and update SIG chair https://review.opendev.org/695625 | 16:41 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance-sigs master: Add Elõd as co-chair of the Extended Maintenance SIG https://review.opendev.org/693766 | 16:45 |
| mriedem | there is an extended maintenance sig? | 16:49 |
| mriedem | seems that should be mentioned somewhere in https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html#stable-maintenance-teams | 16:50 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance-sigs master: Add linting for the sig.yaml https://review.opendev.org/693767 | 16:50 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance-sigs master: Cleanup basepython setting in tox.ini https://review.opendev.org/693832 | 16:50 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance-sigs master: Cleanup setup.cfg for unused settings https://review.opendev.org/693833 | 16:50 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance-sigs master: Update API SIG chairs https://review.opendev.org/691269 | 16:50 |
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| fungi | mriedem: yeah, that's what the old project team for stable maintenance transitioned to become | 17:03 |
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