Tuesday, 2020-04-21

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openstackgerritJean-Philippe Evrard proposed openstack/governance master: Add nomination for TC chair  https://review.opendev.org/72054507:48
evrardjpmnaser: I have rebased your patch ^ . When someone else has a vote on this, I will merge it, and remove myself from the chair group.07:55
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ricolintc-members, as discussed in tacker meeting today, I will help tacker team to manage an election for PTL role with candidates Yasufumi Ogawa and Hyunsik Yang. And people contribute within an year will be invited in this election. The deadline will be Thursday 2359 UTC.08:32
evrardjpok so there were two candidates fighting over the seat of ptl08:37
evrardjpthat's interesting08:37
evrardjpricolin: can you vote on https://review.opendev.org/#/c/720545/ please?08:38
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ricolinevrardjp, done08:47
ricolinmnaser, congrats:)08:47
evrardjpMerged and removed myself from the group08:52
evrardjpI think we are set up08:52
ttxo/08:57
ttxmnaser: congrats!08:57
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Add nomination for TC chair  https://review.opendev.org/72054508:58
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evrardjpwhat's up everyone ?09:12
ttxI'll file the changes to migrate Infra team to SIG09:19
ricolinevrardjp, ttx is there tool I can get all emails who commit to Tacker project within an year?09:22
evrardjpbetter ask in the elections repo09:25
evrardjpI mean in the elections chan09:26
evrardjpand maybe it's in the elections repo09:26
ttxricolin: fungi might be able to extract that data for you, or you can try tools from the election repo09:27
ricolinthx for the hint09:52
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ttxhey tc-members, I'm preparing the infra sig changes... Any volunteer to [co-]chair that SIG? Ideally the TC-designated Opendev advisory council member would be one.11:42
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mnaserttx: i wouldn't want to volunteer someone but i think maybe we can ask andreas, i think he'd be an excellent person for this type of thing tbh.12:51
openstackgerritJean-Philippe Evrard proposed openstack/election master: Add extra-ATCs from sigs-repos into the electorate  https://review.opendev.org/72160412:55
ttxmnaser: I asked him in #openstack-infra12:56
mnasercool12:56
mnaseri have added chair emiratus (including evrardjp) back up to the group.  i think we trust them enough not to merge random things and i think it's nice to have them noted somewhere :)12:57
evrardjpok12:59
openstackgerritJean-Philippe Evrard proposed openstack/governance master: Move i18n into a SIG  https://review.opendev.org/72160513:02
openstackgerritJean-Philippe Evrard proposed openstack/election master: Add extra-ATCs from sigs-repos into the electorate  https://review.opendev.org/72160413:03
evrardjpo/13:03
evrardjpIIRC we were to meet today13:03
evrardjpfor ending up the things13:03
evrardjpwho is available?13:04
evrardjpoh I am probably two hours in advance13:11
mnaseri should be available13:16
evrardjpwe don't have many remaining to deal with13:25
gmannricolin: thanks. will you send the election notice to ML ?13:25
gmannevrardjp: i am here13:25
evrardjpwoot13:25
openstackgerritJean-Philippe Evrard proposed openstack/governance master: Move i18n into a SIG  https://review.opendev.org/72160513:26
evrardjpmnaser and other tc-members: we haven't yet a spot in the vPTG. We should probably figure that one out.13:28
ttxevrardjp: you should probably first submit the change to openstack/governance-sigs creating that SIG13:29
openstackgerritJean-Philippe Evrard proposed openstack/election master: Add extra-ATCs from sigs-repos into the electorate  https://review.opendev.org/72160413:30
knikollao/13:30
ttx(I'm holding on the Infra SIG until I can find who would co-lead it13:30
mnaserhow many slots y'all think we need?13:31
mnaseri guess it would also be good to start the etherpad to collect what we want to discuss in the first place13:31
mnaserand that'll give us a reasonable timeframe13:31
mnasertc-members: https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-victoria-ptg let's start filling this out13:37
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evrardjpttx: I am not yet creating the SIG, me thinks I am just pushing a PoC out there, for first reviews/feel13:41
ttxah ok13:41
ttxI might do so as well13:41
evrardjpwell, yours is not involving changes in elections, does it?13:41
evrardjp: p13:41
evrardjpthough, why not...13:42
ricolintc-members: as an action from yesterday TC meeting and Tacker meeting today, a poll for Tacker PTL will hold until Thursday within tacker team. http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-April/014311.html13:42
evrardjpthanks ricolin13:42
openstackgerritThierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance-sigs master: Creating the Testing and Collaboration Tools SIG  https://review.opendev.org/72161913:43
jungleboyjricolin: Thanks!13:43
openstackgerritThierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: Infrastructure project team is now the TaCT SIG  https://review.opendev.org/72162113:43
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openstackgerritJean-Philippe Evrard proposed openstack/governance-sigs master: Creating the i18n SIG  https://review.opendev.org/72162413:49
evrardjpttx: I followed your lead, and I proposed it in SIGs too :D13:53
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gmanno/15:00
evrardjpo/15:00
gmannmeeting time15:00
evrardjp#startmeeting tc15:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 21 15:01:24 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is evrardjp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"15:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'15:01
jungleboyjo/  Only kind of here.  In another important meeting.  Will try to follow along if I can.15:01
evrardjp#topic leaderless projects part 215:01
*** openstack changes topic to "leaderless projects part 2 (Meeting topic: tc)"15:01
njohnstono/15:01
evrardjpwho is available?15:01
gmanno/15:02
belmoreirao/15:02
evrardjpI have taken notes in the etherpad, based on last meeting15:03
evrardjp#link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/victoria-leaderless15:03
evrardjpso we covered infra yesterday, so the next one should be LOCI15:03
evrardjp#topic loci15:03
*** openstack changes topic to "loci (Meeting topic: tc)"15:03
* gmann 8 voted available on doodle :)15:03
njohnstontc-members leaderless projects meeting ping15:04
evrardjpthanks for the clarification gmann: Worth pinging them manually if they haven't shown up?15:04
knikollao/15:04
mnaserbonjour15:05
gmannmugsie: cloudnull ricolin ping for meeting15:05
evrardjpgood morning to you :)15:05
cloudnullo/15:06
evrardjpI think the first topic is quite easy to deal with, so maybe we should just get started15:06
evrardjp#link https://review.opendev.org/#/c/718933/15:06
evrardjpit doesnt' show up in code-review, because I had to rebase multiple times, but this was approved by the PTL of OSH. So I think we should go ahead there.15:07
njohnston+115:07
gmannmake sense.15:07
evrardjpif you haven't voted there please do :)15:07
evrardjpthe usual suspects have voted :D15:08
evrardjpnext topic then15:08
evrardjp#topic packaging-rpm15:08
*** openstack changes topic to "packaging-rpm (Meeting topic: tc)"15:08
evrardjpso for that it's an open question, IMO15:09
evrardjpI have pinged the folks in their channel15:09
evrardjpthey would be okay with a SIG, but also okay with a project without PTL15:09
evrardjpthey don't want to change much of their structure for now, as they don't know yet what the future will be made of15:09
evrardjpThey want to discuss that internally before coming up with a proposal15:10
evrardjpI intend to help them on the way, if necessary phase them out (option 5)15:10
gmannbut what is reason of not have PTL when they have maintainer ?15:10
evrardjpI think this project could be a good "tentative" of option 415:10
evrardjpbecause they don't really need one15:10
evrardjpif I understood correctly15:11
evrardjpthey are already very distributed, with people sharing the duties, but all equally15:11
evrardjpand all equally*15:11
evrardjpSo my question here: Can we have a deadline for their conversations and reconvene?15:11
evrardjpWould that be okay for you all?15:12
njohnstonAre there any downsides towards making them a SIG?15:12
gmannfor community goal and so we need at least point of contact. otherwise it is very difficult for champion15:12
evrardjpI think the downside is to move towards a new structure, if later they will just drop the project15:12
evrardjpthat's fair gmann15:12
evrardjpbut I am not sure how they map to future or recent community goals, due to their different nature15:13
gmannthere is no release form them right ?15:13
evrardjpthey do release some artifacts, but I think those are _independent15:13
gmanni see15:13
njohnstonthe thing is a PTL-less project is also a novel structure - even more so because we are still figuring out the rules for how a PTL-less project will work15:13
evrardjp(like pymod2pkg)15:14
evrardjprpm-packaging is untagged, but branched15:14
evrardjpnjohnston: yup15:15
evrardjphere I am merely asking if we are okay to give them a delay to rethink if they should exist too15:15
evrardjpI think it's a fair question15:15
evrardjpand I understand why they need to think about it15:15
njohnstonI am fine with reconvening but if we talk to them and they don't have an opinion, then I think it would be good to have an idea of where we would take it, if it is left up to us15:15
evrardjpfine for me15:16
evrardjpeven though they don't like the answer15:16
gmann+115:16
evrardjpeven though they might not like the answer*15:16
njohnston+1 for waiting period for discussion and discernment15:16
evrardjpreconvene in a week?15:16
njohnstonmaybe we can handle it in next week's Thursday office hours?15:16
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evrardjpsounds good to me15:17
evrardjpgmann: opinion?15:17
gmann+115:17
njohnstontc office hours is right after their team meeting15:17
evrardjpI am pinging you because it seems only the 3 of us are really active here :p15:17
evrardjpnjohnston: oh that's perfect!15:17
gmannnice.15:17
evrardjpthough most of them are european, so it might be late15:18
evrardjpiirc15:18
evrardjpmeh15:18
gmannevrardjp: but we might need to check with release team or you can tell :) if that delay any of the release activity from their side ?15:18
evrardjpit's work from home pandemic time nowadays anyway15:18
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evrardjpI don't think we should change this for the current release15:18
evrardjpthough I don't expect a change for the coordinated release15:18
evrardjpbecause of the release model15:19
evrardjpI have to double check15:19
gmanni mean current release is all good from their side right or waiting for new PTL to do?15:19
gmannok.15:19
ricolino/15:19
ricolinsorry I'm late15:19
evrardjpgmann: what I meant is that they will have no need to tag, AFAIK, their main repos (only to branch), so no impact there. And the independent should also be no impact15:20
evrardjpbut I will double check15:20
evrardjpjust to make sure I didn't forget a deliverable or something15:20
gmannevrardjp: i see, thanks15:20
evrardjplet's reconvene next week Thursday at the office hours15:20
evrardjpmoving on then15:20
evrardjp#topic tricircle15:21
*** openstack changes topic to "tricircle (Meeting topic: tc)"15:21
evrardjpit seems we don't have any candidate interested, and the tc is pretty much pointing to option 5.15:21
evrardjpanyone wants to take this, like njohnston did?15:21
knikolla++15:21
gmannI was checking the ussuri activity and it is almost same as Congress. no project related work. just doc or py2 drop patches merged15:22
gmann#link https://www.stackalytics.com/?metric=commits&release=ussuri&module=tricircle-group15:22
gmannso it is clearly un-maintained15:22
evrardjpyeah15:22
gmannevrardjp: i can take15:22
gmannso we are going with same approach - ML + retire from openstack + import to x/15:22
evrardjpyeah let's keep it existing in current release and deprecate it to the next, like congress15:22
gmannto double check15:23
evrardjpyeah maybe no need to import to x15:23
evrardjpif necessary, they will re-import to x :p15:23
evrardjpor maybe I missed the thing?15:23
gmannyou mean keep in openstack/ namespace ?15:23
evrardjpoh wait, yeah that doesn't seem right15:23
evrardjpmy bad :p15:23
gmannthat is confusion for me too.15:23
ricolin:)15:23
evrardjpyeah15:23
evrardjplet's not have that confusion around15:23
gmannretire means it has to move away from openstack/ namepspace and we also do not want to remove the code for sometime if someone come back15:24
evrardjpif it's not official openstack it probably should move to x/15:24
evrardjpgmann: agreed15:24
ricolinagreed15:24
gmannok. we need to check x/ namespace criteria also as clarkb pointed out if no maintainer then difficult to keep it in x/ ? if i read the email correctly ?15:25
evrardjpI might have read this wrong too15:25
evrardjpthis wrong*15:25
gmannmay be clarkb or fungi can clarify if ok to keep under x/ without maintainer15:25
njohnstonyes I think clarkb's point is that there's no point in making it x/ without interest, so let's wait for interest to surface before creating x/15:25
njohnstonuntil then it can just lie dead-headed in openstack/15:26
clarkbnjohnston: yup exactly15:26
clarkbwe don't need an extra copy of the repo until people want to use it15:26
mnasernjohnston: agreed -- dead-headed meaning repo with empty commit, correct?15:26
mnaseror a commit to empty out the whole thing15:26
evrardjpbut how do you know it's retired then? just because of the HEAD of the master branch?15:26
clarkbevrardjp: yes15:26
gmannbut we will be removing it from openstack/ name space right15:26
clarkbgmann: no15:27
njohnstonempty in master yes, but we can keep the stable branches in case someone running an old release needs it15:27
clarkbopenstack/congress stays with an empty master commit with a readme15:27
mnaseri think the repo will exist, it wont' be deleted, but just have an empty repo (git history is still there)15:27
clarkbthatreadme can say "this is how we can help you fork"15:27
ricolinonce we cut ussuri, master will be dead15:27
njohnstonit's still a valid choice for someone to want to run congress with their stable/rocky cloud, we should not break that15:28
gmannand if anyone want to maintain it it can be from last available stable version ..15:28
evrardjpIt's consistent with what we've done for other things15:28
evrardjpsee for example: https://opendev.org/openstack/astara15:28
ricolingmann, njohnston that sounds right to me15:28
gmannyeah.15:28
gmannI agree not to have extra copy in x/15:29
evrardjpso yeah, ML + deprecations of master, and if necessary, people will fork in x/ when they want to15:29
gmannthanks clarkb for clarification.15:29
gmannevrardjp: yeah.15:29
gmannevrardjp: i will ping you on release channel to have ussuri release for its deliverable.15:30
evrardjpand yeah that didn't seem right to keep the project up in openstack/ open, but that's right for existing branches, and for HEAD of master, IMO, so let's continue the way it is :)15:30
evrardjpgmann: lgtm15:30
evrardjpI think we have something pending by smcginnis15:30
evrardjpalready15:30
gmann#link https://review.opendev.org/#/c/721468/15:31
gmannnice ^^15:31
evrardjpyeah I don't expect the PTL to vote on this. We might need to work to fix the CI :/15:31
evrardjp(not sure why validate is broken, whether it's from releases or from tricircle)15:32
evrardjp(but I doubt it's from releases :p )15:32
fungigmann: sorry, like yesterday, this is falling in the middle of another meeting clarkb and i are both in15:32
evrardjpgmann: let's sync over this in the release channel15:32
evrardjpfungi: don't worry, we got it! :)15:33
gmannfungi: np!. clarkb clarified now. all good.15:33
evrardjpand sorry for the interruption15:33
evrardjpwe wanted to be double sure :)15:33
smcginnisevrardjp: Looks like the repo has issues.15:33
* evrardjp considers that he should work on his memory issues :p 15:34
smcginnisProblem with the README file and can't build an sdist.15:34
evrardjpclassic15:34
evrardjp:D15:34
evrardjplet's deal with it in release15:34
gmannyeah15:34
evrardjpI think that's all for today15:35
evrardjpam I correct?15:35
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njohnstonagreed15:35
gmannyeah.15:35
njohnstongood job all15:35
ricolinnice job evrardjp :)15:35
evrardjpplease note that I have started to work on the i18n15:35
evrardjpso if you could have a look at my patch in governance that would be awesome15:36
evrardjp#link https://review.opendev.org/#/c/721605/15:36
evrardjpanyway15:36
evrardjpthanks everyone for working on this15:36
evrardjplet's reconvene in the office hours for progress updates15:36
gmannthanks all and evrardjp for chair.15:37
evrardjp:)15:37
evrardjp#endmeeting15:37
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Technical Committee office hours: Tuesdays at 09:00 UTC, Wednesdays at 01:00 UTC, and Thursdays at 15:00 UTC | https://governance.openstack.org/tc/ | channel logs http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-tc/"15:37
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 21 15:37:13 2020 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:37
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2020/tc.2020-04-21-15.01.html15:37
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2020/tc.2020-04-21-15.01.txt15:37
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2020/tc.2020-04-21-15.01.log.html15:37
evrardjpdamn I did my job poorly again15:37
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evrardjpthis time I forgot the actions15:37
evrardjpyesterday I forgot to start meeting15:37
evrardjpomg15:37
gmann:) np!15:38
evrardjpthanks for dealing with my pebkacs15:38
evrardjp:D15:38
njohnston:)15:38
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Fold LOCI into OpenStack-Helm  https://review.opendev.org/71893315:43
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* jungleboyj goes back to catch up on what I missed. 15:54
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openstackgerritIan Y. Choi proposed openstack/governance-sigs master: Creating the i18n SIG  https://review.opendev.org/72162419:38
openstackgerritAndreas Jaeger proposed openstack/governance master: Retire i18n-specs  https://review.opendev.org/72172320:13
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openstackgerritAndreas Jaeger proposed openstack/governance master: Retire i18n-specs  https://review.opendev.org/72172320:31
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