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| evrardjp | that's why I am just sending a reminder here :) | 07:18 |
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| ttx | o/ | 08:48 |
| belmoreira | o/ | 09:07 |
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| ricolin | o/ | 10:58 |
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| mnaser | evrardjp: and tc-members: i posted this numerous times and only 2 other members have contributed to it -- https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-victoria-ptg | 12:44 |
| mnaser | i didn't submit to request time yet because i absolutely don't know how much time we'll need based on the topics suggested | 12:44 |
| mnaser | *please* look into it, add your name if you're attending, throw in some suggested topics. | 12:44 |
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| mugsie | mnaser: sorry - didn't see the attendees bit at the top, added myself | 12:49 |
| mnaser | mugsie: all good, i noticed you threw some topics inthere so :) | 12:50 |
| ttx | mnaser: I just reorganized/regrouped topics | 12:56 |
| ttx | Like your TC liaison discussion and gmann's health check return should probably be discussed together | 12:56 |
| mnaser | ttx: agreed | 12:57 |
| mugsie | we haven't run the liason script for vicotria yet, have we? | 12:58 |
| ttx | same for pop up teams and goals, which are just two ways of fostering cross-project work | 12:58 |
| mnaser | mugsie: we have not. i thought perhaps waiting until we have that discussion didn't hurt too much | 12:59 |
| mugsie | yeah, if we are going to make a change that makes sense | 12:59 |
| mugsie | are you proposing changing that? | 12:59 |
| mnaser | mugsie: im thinking we should probably have the discussion about if the idea makes sense if we're not doing any out reach really | 13:00 |
| mugsie | OK - initally, liasons were supposed to be in addition to the health check (the health check was added on). I still do out reach to the teams I am assigned as a liason to say "hello, reach out if you need anything". but if we want to move away from that we shouldn't assign anyone | 13:04 |
| mugsie | part of the idea was just a less formal person for the team to ping instead of going to the TC | 13:04 |
| mnaser | mugsie: right, but i think the idea is to look back and see how effective it has been, have we been doing out reach? is maybe a signal from release team that things aren't released enough if we worry about a project "dying"? has anyone acutally been reached out to as a 'liaison'? all things to look back and decide if we should keep doing it or not | 13:06 |
| ttx | yeah it's not as if it has been effective in predicting leaderless projects or anything | 13:08 |
| ttx | Currently it's more of a way to pretend to have done our homework in keeping track of what's happening in the dark corners | 13:09 |
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| TheJulia | it is not like that takes a terrible amount of time | 13:47 |
| fungi | and takes incrementally less time the more teams get closed back down ;) | 13:51 |
| TheJulia | And without doing it, one can't know if that should happen. | 13:52 |
| gmann | o/ | 13:57 |
| knikolla | o/ | 13:58 |
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| gmann | idea on health check/Liaison topic was to have some mechanism for TC to do more interaction on project more frequently and detect no-active projects as early as possible. less-active is fine but no-active should not be required to wait for PTL election etc. | 14:01 |
| gmann | those consume horizontal teams bandwidth and infra resources for proposed patches but never get merge. | 14:01 |
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| jungleboyj | o/ | 14:29 |
| gmann | mnaser: if you are around, these two are ready to merge- https://review.opendev.org/#/c/718177/https://review.opendev.org/#/c/722924/ | 14:30 |
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| njohnston | o/ | 14:38 |
| TheJulia | gmann: Indeed, but many seek to avoid conflict at all costs. This results in the status quo being maintained even when it is untenable. Granted, this needs to be navigated at some level, but reality can be harsh, especially at this time with so many other things going on :( | 14:41 |
| TheJulia | Also, how does one penalize something where people have poured their heart and soul into their work. | 14:44 |
| TheJulia | It is a conundrum | 14:44 |
| gmann | yeah that is true. or somehow if we can reach out to them and they initiate the project retirement or something will be good. or some way to handle that so that we give enough respect to the work done. | 14:46 |
| gmann | one of my colleague worked in Congress project as her first open source project had same feeling when I sent the project retirement ML discussion. | 14:48 |
| TheJulia | I feel like the obsession to release is part of the conundrum here | 14:50 |
| TheJulia | We also don't have a real actual use idea. Which is discouraging that we base decisions on opt-in polling | 14:51 |
| * TheJulia might be raging some | 14:51 | |
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| gmann | actual use data can be much helpful if we somehow can get. At least, chances are (very less though :) ) that users step in when no one else maintain it. | 14:54 |
| TheJulia | Well, it is a conundrum with two sides to it | 14:54 |
| TheJulia | One is the actual corporate sponsorship and resource allocation. Now that I think about it there is also marketing aspects and support aspects that mix in with that. The other original idea was also "is this popular or does it solve my problem" switch in people's brains. If they think something is unused and discarded, they are going to use that to discount it, but actual use may be substantially more | 14:57 |
| TheJulia | as a community, we've falled down on broadcasting out. I keep bringing it up, I keep urging, but I think people have become so burnt out and numb to it. Also, changing formats doesn't help | 14:58 |
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| diablo_rojo_phon | mnaser: it might be a good idea to send the ptg planning etherpad and similar (in the future) to the ML to make sure everyone sees it since I somehow seemed to keep missing you posting the link in IRC and I don't think I'm the only one? | 15:39 |
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| mnaser | diablo_rojo_phon: done | 16:18 |
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| diablo_rojo | mnaser, is there a poll for figuring out the time we want to meet at the PTG yet? | 20:08 |
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