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| ttx | mnaser: re: next steps in TC/UC, the idea would be to hold until the change is effective (August 1) before pushing docs cleanups and running "the election" | 09:24 |
|---|---|---|
| ttx | I'll post an update soon | 09:27 |
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| mnaser | ttx: thank you! | 12:29 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Remove grace period on resolutions https://review.opendev.org/735361 | 12:32 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: tools: update check-review-status to drop grace period https://review.opendev.org/736737 | 12:33 |
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| fungi | tc-members: in case you missed it, Luzi posted this image encryption update in response to the request during the tc ptg session talking about getting occasional status updates from pop up teams: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-June/015536.html | 13:05 |
| fungi | does a great job of highlighting where the effort is at this point | 13:06 |
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| zaneb | fungi: try https://groups.google.com/a/kubernetes.io/forum/#!topic/steering/VGjECFmk-cQ | 13:49 |
| fungi | zaneb: yeah, that link is far better. can be read anonymously | 14:00 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Retire puppet-congress https://review.opendev.org/737145 | 14:13 |
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| mnaser | zaneb: how did you get that link? | 15:14 |
| zaneb | the hard way | 15:14 |
| zaneb | google around, try to find a link to the forum, then go into the thread from there | 15:14 |
| fungi | google clearly wants that to be hard | 15:16 |
| mnaser | ah okay, i thought it was a 'click to share' thing i had missed | 15:18 |
| zaneb | fwiw mnaser's link didn't work for me even when I was logged in (to corporate acct) | 15:19 |
| zaneb | you might have to be a member of the group to use that link | 15:19 |
| mugsie | It worked on one of my gsuite accounts, not the other for some reason :/ | 15:21 |
| fungi | pretty crazy | 15:24 |
| mnaser | zaneb: im not a member of it, so i'm not sure. *insert magic gif* | 15:26 |
| zaneb | I got nothin then :D | 15:27 |
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| tbarron | worked for me but i was in k8s storage sig, etc. | 16:04 |
| * tbarron highly recommends working in k8s community a bit to appreciate impact of openstack 4 opens | 16:04 | |
| tbarron | k8s community is very welcoming, but is arguably less open | 16:06 |
| tbarron | and my intent is not to cast stones, just to value what we have | 16:06 |
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| fungi | i had similar experiences getting to know the ansible community process. makes me appreciate our openness/transparency and community-driven efforts all the more | 16:20 |
| smcginnis | It really is easy to take the 4 opens for granted until you need to do some work in some of the other larger communities. It seems so ingrained in how we do things that it can be a little jarring at first when you realize not all open source communities operate in similar ways. | 16:23 |
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| fungi | i especially loved the opening session at my first ansiblefest, where the ansible core project developers made a surprise announcement letting the community know what product decisions red hat had made and where the community would be able to help achieve these goals | 16:30 |
| smcginnis | Ouch | 16:32 |
| evrardjp | "surprise!" | 16:33 |
| fungi | basically all the design work for the next version happens in secret among a set of project leaders who are all employees of one company, and are chosen by that company, and then once they've figured out what direction the project is definitely going to take, they let their community know with well-timed press releases and sneak preview announcements | 16:33 |
| fungi | and it's held up as one of the better examples of a large open source project... there are much worse | 16:34 |
| smcginnis | True, I have seen much worse than that. I'm more surprised by the company it's coming from. Hopefully that's not still the case. | 16:36 |
| evrardjp | I think in that example, the community did badly accept the message, and raise its voice, but maybe that's my PoV | 16:43 |
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| fungi | i do think us continuing to push transparency and community involvement in top-level decision-making and in choosing their own leadership does help apply a lot of pressure to other such projects to do the same, as well as demonstrates it's possible to do those things and still have a successful project | 16:54 |
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| tbarron | fungi: I *hope* that acquisition has been integrated more and the project is more open now but I will say that | 17:28 |
| tbarron | it is nice to be able to leverage the clear statement of 4 Opens, etc.when working downstream on OpenStack | 17:28 |
| tbarron | and to be able to maintain an upstream first commit/bug fix policy (modulo CVEs) | 17:29 |
| fungi | tbarron: well, this was just last year, but yeah maybe things have improved since | 17:31 |
| fungi | making their planning discussions public would be a great start, even if they don't like outside input on the decisions they're making | 17:31 |
| fungi | but that likely flies in the face of product marketing strategy | 17:31 |
| mnaser | tc-members: we'e done an awesome job at clearing out our review list -- now it's time that we look at knikolla proposed change which has been sitting idle for 7 weeks. https://review.opendev.org/#/c/722399/ | 17:32 |
| mnaser | i would appreciate if folks took sometime to start commenting at it, i know we had some newer/more shiny/fun things to poke and discuss, but we should prioritize accordingly | 17:32 |
| tbarron | fungi: I honestly don't know one way or the other, but expressed my hope. Having clear upstream principles articulated helps us downstream in OpenStack. | 17:33 |
| fungi | i'm glad! | 17:34 |
| gmann | mnaser: ack. adding in my tomorrow review list after finishing the stable branch grenade failure today. | 17:34 |
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| fungi | just a heads up on project aliveness checks... i've reached out to trove's leadership in their irc channel on behalf of the vmt because their vulnerability management liaison and their core security reviewers group both appear to be years out of date | 18:05 |
| fungi | i'll keep you posted on any developments | 18:06 |
| fungi | at the moment the vmt is falling back to contacting the trove ptl because we suspect nobody beyond the vmt is aware of private reports of suspected vulnerabilities in trove | 18:07 |
| mnaser | fungi: where are vmt liaisons documented? | 18:49 |
| fungi | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CrossProjectLiaisons#Vulnerability_management | 18:51 |
| mnaser | fungi: i'm all for avoiding being a bottleneck but i wonder if it makes sense to add this inside reference/projects.yaml so we can note the day someone was assigned and make a keepalive check every X period of time | 18:55 |
| fungi | sure, i don't see why not | 18:55 |
| mnaser | fungi: or even reset those values at election time.. just to force a clean up / detecting stale info | 18:55 |
| mnaser | cause cdent being qa liaison for ceilometer says a lot ;P | 18:56 |
| mnaser | (the list is out of date) | 18:56 |
| fungi | also complicating the situation is that they started using storyboard but never closed down bug reporting in launchpad, so are continuing to get new bugs opened in lp i expect nobody's looking at | 18:56 |
| mnaser | fungi: i see the release team has the data in-repo, it would be interesting to hear some feedback on how they keep it fresh/non-stale | 18:57 |
| * mnaser looks at evrardjp, ttx & smcginnis | 18:58 | |
| fungi | a big part of it is that they require liaison/ptl votes on release requests, so without keeping that fresh projects may not be able to request releases | 18:59 |
| smcginnis | For the most part, we leave it to the teams to manage their liaison information. | 19:03 |
| smcginnis | I've submitted a few patches when I've noticed obvious stale information. | 19:03 |
| gmann | I think we also need to cleanup few of the liaison category if not applicable in current situation. like oslo, i18n, Inter-project, doc, Logging Working Group can be just replaced with complete core team. | 19:03 |
| gmann | and keep only active liaison categorIES | 19:05 |
| diablo_rojo | Having the liaisons (vmt and release) documented in projects.yaml would be nice. Also a step towards decentralizing the PTL role. | 19:05 |
| diablo_rojo | Also makes it easier to script automatic addition of reviewers. | 19:06 |
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| fungi | sure, i mostly just don't want the vmt to be responsible for maintaining lists of liaisons and security reviewer groups | 19:08 |
| diablo_rojo | Oh yeah I would agree. A group already stretched thin doesn't need *more* work. | 19:09 |
| diablo_rojo | Especially something fiddly like that. | 19:09 |
| diablo_rojo | The FC SIG has similar issues. | 19:09 |
| diablo_rojo | But we are.. to the passive observer..less important than the VMT. | 19:09 |
| fungi | we cover these needs in requirements 2 and 3 of the vulnerability:managed project tag: https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/tags/vulnerability_managed.html#requirements | 19:09 |
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| diablo_rojo | Easily updated to say document in project.yaml AND create/update the group in the deliverables task tracker. | 20:31 |
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| fungi | update on trove, lxkong got in touch, indicated that he's the only active maintainer for the project these days, and has updated their vmt liaison entry accordingly. i've also properly shut down the old bug reporting for them in launchpad since he did not have access to do so | 23:13 |
| lxkong | fungi: thanks for doing all of those, fungi | 23:13 |
| fungi | my pleasure | 23:16 |
| diablo_rojo | Awesome. | 23:20 |
| diablo_rojo | Thank you both! fungi and lxkong for everything :) | 23:20 |
| diablo_rojo | gmann, anything you need for the community meeting Thursday? Or are you good to go? | 23:49 |
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