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| mnaser | #startmeeting tc | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Dec 17 15:00:00 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mnaser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 15:00 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 15:00 |
| mnaser | #topic rollcall | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:00 | |
| mnaser | o/ | 15:00 |
| belmoreira | o/ | 15:00 |
| gmann | o/ | 15:00 |
| diablo_rojo | o/ | 15:00 |
| mnaser | #topic skipping next meetings | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "skipping next meetings (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:01 | |
| mnaser | i forgot to update the wiki on this, but i assume we're all okay with skipping the 2 upcoming meetings? | 15:02 |
| belmoreira | +1 | 15:02 |
| mnaser | i'll gladly run it on the 24th and 31st if anyone really wants to be there ;) | 15:02 |
| mnaser | so i guess in that case, we're probably going to skip those and meet again on january 7th | 15:03 |
| gmann | I can but as most of us will not be available so I think skip is fine. | 15:03 |
| gmann | +1 | 15:03 |
| mnaser | cool cool cool | 15:03 |
| mnaser | #action mnaser send out email about skipping both upcoming meetings | 15:03 |
| jungleboyj | +1 | 15:04 |
| mnaser | #topic Follow up on past action items | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Follow up on past action items (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:04 | |
| mnaser | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2020/tc.2020-12-10-15.01.html | 15:04 |
| mnaser | mnaser send email to ML to find volunteers to help drive goal selection | 15:04 |
| mnaser | so i sent that email out | 15:05 |
| mnaser | abotu the idea of a stabilization cycle | 15:05 |
| mnaser | no one seems to be strongly opposing it :) | 15:05 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 15:05 |
| mnaser | #action mnaser write a proposed goal for X about stabilization/cooldown | 15:06 |
| mnaser | i'll push up something about that | 15:06 |
| gmann | +1 | 15:06 |
| diablo_rojo | Why would people oppose stabilization? :) | 15:06 |
| mnaser | diablo_rojo: mOvE fAsT aNd BrEaK tHiNgS | 15:06 |
| jungleboyj | I think we all need a bit of stability right now. | 15:06 |
| mnaser | :P | 15:06 |
| mnaser | next up, we had: gmann complete retirement of searchlight & qinling | 15:06 |
| diablo_rojo | jungleboyj, lol +2 | 15:06 |
| gmann | both are done, repo cleanup, project-config and governance patches are merged. few usage patches on kolla side etc are left because their CI is broken currently. they can be merged as soon as their CI is green. | 15:07 |
| mnaser | ok that's cool, so shall we keep this as an action item to keep following up or just consider it done? | 15:07 |
| mnaser | your call gmann :) | 15:07 |
| gmann | we can consider as done, I will follow on recheck those once CI is back | 15:08 |
| mnaser | cool cool, ty | 15:09 |
| mnaser | next up, diablo_rojo complete retirement of karbor | 15:09 |
| diablo_rojo | Getting there. I have the bulk of things done - just a couple kolla and kayobe patches left I think. | 15:09 |
| diablo_rojo | Things are starting to merge. | 15:09 |
| diablo_rojo | Definitely want to keep this action item lol | 15:10 |
| mnaser | haha, got it, sounds good | 15:10 |
| mnaser | #action diablo_rojo complete retirement of karbor | 15:10 |
| diablo_rojo | But waaaaay more progress than our last time touching base | 15:10 |
| mnaser | \o/ awesome, ping me if you need any project-config patches to land | 15:10 |
| mnaser | and finally, mnaser work to find time for community deployment projects + centos/rdo team | 15:10 |
| mnaser | i reached out to apevec and working on setting that up though most likely it'll be happening next year cause its too close to holidays now | 15:11 |
| diablo_rojo | mnaser, I think there are a couple. | 15:11 |
| mnaser | diablo_rojo: send em my way whenever :) | 15:11 |
| diablo_rojo | Sounds good. | 15:11 |
| diablo_rojo | will do. | 15:11 |
| mnaser | ok cool, so next up | 15:11 |
| mnaser | #topic Audit SIG list and chairs (diablo_rojo) | 15:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Audit SIG list and chairs (diablo_rojo) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:11 | |
| mnaser | #link https://governance.openstack.org/sigs/ | 15:11 |
| diablo_rojo | Oh yeah. So, this list is suuuuuper out of date so I was going to go and email the discuss list about each of them encouraging them to update details- specifically chairs. | 15:12 |
| diablo_rojo | I know a lot of these people aren't active anymore and so we should get new chairs in place or look at retiring the sig | 15:12 |
| diablo_rojo | or hibernating it or whatever | 15:12 |
| diablo_rojo | So I guess thats another action item for me | 15:13 |
| mnaser | i think that'll be really useful | 15:13 |
| jungleboyj | That is a good idea. | 15:13 |
| gmann | what all SIG ? | 15:13 |
| jungleboyj | This does look really old. | 15:13 |
| mnaser | gmann: a lot of sigs seem to not be so active and/or chairs arent around | 15:13 |
| gmann | if any SIG are complete their purpose then we move them to advisory state | 15:14 |
| gmann | otherwise close | 15:14 |
| diablo_rojo | gmann, most of them aside from like.. a handful- scientific, first cotnact, TaCT, Large Scale are all probably fine. | 15:14 |
| diablo_rojo | gmann, yeah I plan to start those conversations | 15:14 |
| gmann | +1, we can check and then move their state | 15:15 |
| mnaser | #action diablo_rojo reach out to SIGs/ML and start auditing states of SIGs | 15:15 |
| gmann | I think even we close them we keep them in doc for refence | 15:15 |
| diablo_rojo | gmann, I would agree | 15:15 |
| diablo_rojo | in case someone wants to revive it down the road | 15:15 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:15 |
| jungleboyj | That sounds good. | 15:15 |
| mnaser | cools | 15:16 |
| gmann | I cannot find such example in site now but I am sure we have in SIG repo code somewhere | 15:16 |
| mnaser | i think once we start hitting that problem, we can discuss on the best way of moving it/archiving it | 15:16 |
| diablo_rojo | +2 | 15:16 |
| mnaser | cool, next up | 15:17 |
| mnaser | #topic Annual report suggestions (diablo_rojo) | 15:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Annual report suggestions (diablo_rojo) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:17 | |
| diablo_rojo | Also me lol | 15:17 |
| diablo_rojo | its the diablo_rojo show today | 15:17 |
| diablo_rojo | So mnaser and I are working on the annual report for openstack. | 15:18 |
| diablo_rojo | If there are any specific ideas you think we should include, please send them our way | 15:18 |
| diablo_rojo | once its mostly written we will send around a draft before submitting it | 15:18 |
| gmann | diablo_rojo: mnaser this is process on retiring the SIG https://governance.openstack.org/sigs/reference/sig-guideline.html#retiring-a-sig | 15:19 |
| gmann | #link https://governance.openstack.org/sigs/reference/sig-guideline.html#retiring-a-sig | 15:19 |
| diablo_rojo | gmann, oh cool! thanks :) | 15:19 |
| mnaser | oh that's neat to add later | 15:19 |
| mnaser | also wrt to the annual report stuff, yeah, appreciate any info to tack onto it | 15:20 |
| mnaser | ok cool | 15:21 |
| mnaser | thats fiar | 15:21 |
| mnaser | well next | 15:21 |
| mnaser | #topic X cycle goal selection start | 15:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "X cycle goal selection start (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:21 | |
| * jungleboyj stabilized | 15:21 | |
| mnaser | i think that has to go with the action item that i had above | 15:21 |
| gmann | yeah this can be removed now | 15:21 |
| mnaser | cool, we can keep track of it in the AI | 15:21 |
| gmann | +1 that's better | 15:22 |
| mnaser | #action mnaser drop X cycle goal selection start from agenda | 15:22 |
| mnaser | #topic Audit and clean-up tags (gmann) | 15:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Audit and clean-up tags (gmann) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:22 | |
| gmann | I started ML on API tag | 15:22 |
| gmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-December/019505.html | 15:22 |
| gmann | let's see how many projects start that but it might be after holiday | 15:22 |
| gmann | I will continue on other tag audit in parallel | 15:23 |
| mnaser | ok cool, that seems reasonable | 15:23 |
| mnaser | should we remove those sub items in there in the meantime too? | 15:23 |
| gmann | yes those can be removed and I will update next tag for next meeting | 15:24 |
| mnaser | gmann: mind doing that when you update for next tag for next meeting? | 15:24 |
| gmann | sure | 15:24 |
| mnaser | #action gmann continue to audit tags + outreach to community to apply for them | 15:25 |
| mnaser | #topic X cycle release name vote recording (gmann) | 15:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "X cycle release name vote recording (gmann) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:25 | |
| gmann | should we close this as votes are recorded in ML but only 4 out of 6. | 15:26 |
| mnaser | yeah, i guess that's ok at this point | 15:26 |
| mnaser | #action mnaser drop X cycle release name vote recording | 15:26 |
| mnaser | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-December/019337.html | 15:27 |
| gmann | I thinks getting votes from all community members is easy process than getting from TC | 15:27 |
| jungleboyj | :-( | 15:27 |
| mnaser | i agree | 15:27 |
| mnaser | *shrug* | 15:27 |
| gmann | anyways something we can discuss later in next meeting or so when all members are here | 15:28 |
| mnaser | yeah | 15:28 |
| mnaser | #topic CentOS 8 releases are discontinued / switch to CentOS 8 Stream (gmann/yoctozepto) | 15:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CentOS 8 releases are discontinued / switch to CentOS 8 Stream (gmann/yoctozepto) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:28 | |
| mnaser | is there anything to discuss on this at this point from a tc level? | 15:28 |
| mnaser | we have an action item to get the community to get together and i trust that the QA team is donig the right hing | 15:29 |
| jungleboyj | Man, this has caused a lot of frustration in general. | 15:29 |
| gmann | I do not think so, in devstack we are trying to get centos stream job working | 15:29 |
| gmann | jungleboyj: yeah I agree | 15:29 |
| mnaser | yeah i think that's a whole another discussion we can have | 15:30 |
| mnaser | i dont particularly agree with the source of the frustration | 15:30 |
| mnaser | but that's another discussion to have :P | 15:30 |
| mnaser | we can probably drop this from our list? | 15:30 |
| jungleboyj | mnaser: Agree. | 15:30 |
| gmann | yeah. +1 on dropping from our list | 15:30 |
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| mnaser | coools | 15:31 |
| mnaser | #action mnaser remove centos 8 topic from upcoming agenda | 15:31 |
| mnaser | #topic open reviews | 15:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open reviews (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:31 | |
| mnaser | https://review.opendev.org/q/projects:openstack/governance+is:open | 15:31 |
| mnaser | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/projects:openstack/governance+is:open | 15:31 |
| mnaser | only main thing is | 15:33 |
| mnaser | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/759904 | 15:33 |
| mnaser | what can we do to help merge this? or maybe get it in a minimal merge state and then allowing us to amend thing to it later? | 15:33 |
| gmann | my -1 is mainly on python-*client stands where we create again confusion on what direction we should do | 15:33 |
| gmann | for OSC, projects side point sicne starting was what to do with existing python-*client which is still unclear in this resolution | 15:34 |
| gmann | that is why i think we should have some technical debt first and get agreement on that. | 15:35 |
| mnaser | i think the main point of the change at the time that projects SHOULDNT do things like remove osc usage and replace it by python-*client | 15:35 |
| mnaser | and more in general try to aim to make osc to have feature parity if not .. better? | 15:36 |
| gmann | yeah that we can make resolution saying these ^^ and leave technical details like 'remove the python-*client' | 15:37 |
| gmann | if resolution talk about these two part then I am good | 15:37 |
| gmann | * technical details like 'remove the python-*client which lead the discussion on how sdk python binding should be done | 15:38 |
| jungleboyj | I am ok with that. | 15:38 |
| fungi | this discussion also conflates openstackclient with openstacksdk, fwiw | 15:38 |
| gmann | because Tom raised good point on standalone service client | 15:39 |
| mnaser | standalone service clients can make sense if they somehow find a way to be 100% feature parity (i think ironic does something like this) | 15:40 |
| mnaser | but tbh when you enter the domain of two different implementations, that's just doing our users a disservice | 15:40 |
| jungleboyj | Dual maintenance. | 15:41 |
| jungleboyj | If there is parity then we don't have to have them removed but it leave room for confusion/mistakes. | 15:42 |
| belmoreira | what's the advantage to not remove them? | 15:43 |
| belmoreira | for a simple user that would be very confusing | 15:44 |
| belmoreira | like today | 15:44 |
| fungi | one advantage is stand-alone projects may not want to force users to install a heavyweight client/sdk to interact with just their service | 15:44 |
| gmann | standalone is one oint | 15:44 |
| gmann | point | 15:44 |
| gmann | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/759904/7/resolutions/20201028-openstackclient-tc-policy.rst#11 | 15:44 |
| belmoreira | fungi gmann true | 15:45 |
| fungi | but that's ultimately a tension between the view that openstack should be one big consistent system vs a federation of compatible but separate solutions | 15:45 |
| fungi | it's tough to reconcile those with a single approach to interfaces (for example would you use horizon as a webui for standalone swift?) | 15:46 |
| gmann | we also provide the standalone tag for services and operator to choose those #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/tags/assert_supports-standalone.html | 15:46 |
| gmann | so that point we should consider on removing the python-*client | 15:46 |
| fungi | one (very labor intensive so unlikely) solution could be to reimplement te individual clients on top of openstacksdk | 15:48 |
| fungi | at least the command-line part of them (so basically a compatibility shim to the standalone client syntax where possible) | 15:51 |
| ricolin | do we have stand along service who already said they prefer not doing anything to force users to install a heavyweight (which I don't think it's heavy:) ) client/sdk? | 15:52 |
| gmann | ricolin: that is the point from manila team #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/759904/7/resolutions/20201028-openstackclient-tc-policy.rst#11 | 15:53 |
| gmann | and other projects like ironic, have not opinioned on this yet | 15:54 |
| fungi | again, the situations with openstackclient and openstacksdk, while related, are a little different at the moment | 15:55 |
| ricolin | right, from gouthamr | 15:55 |
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| fungi | remember that for now openstackclient still relies on (almost?) all of the individual service client libraries along with depending on openstacksdk | 15:56 |
| fungi | that's not the end goal, but it's a present reality | 15:57 |
| jungleboyj | Reading over those comments it seems that the main concern is with us making a stance on removal. I am ok with softening out stance in the interest of making progress. | 15:57 |
| jungleboyj | Removal of the python-*client | 15:57 |
| fungi | so openstacksdk is remarkably lightweight, openstackclient is a massive grab-bag of dependencies | 15:58 |
| ricolin | jungleboyj, +1 as the first step in road to push/encourage projects start this task | 15:58 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 15:59 |
| gmann | yeah, if we talk on moving to osc and not updating doc etc not to use osc, basically two point mnaser mentioned above then it is ok. | 15:59 |
| jungleboyj | ++ | 16:00 |
| ricolin | ++ | 16:00 |
| gmann | and leave the implementation detail on python binding and removal or python-*client for sdk and projects team side | 16:01 |
| gmann | at least before TC decide any resolution on that part. | 16:02 |
| mnaser | i think we'll keep the discussion going.... | 16:02 |
| mnaser | #endmeeting | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Technical Committee office hours: Tuesdays at 09:00 UTC, Wednesdays at 01:00 UTC, and Thursdays at 15:00 UTC | https://governance.openstack.org/tc/ | channel logs http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-tc/" | 16:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Dec 17 16:02:32 2020 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2020/tc.2020-12-17-15.00.html | 16:02 |
| mnaser | but will end for now | 16:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2020/tc.2020-12-17-15.00.txt | 16:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2020/tc.2020-12-17-15.00.log.html | 16:02 |
| fungi | on the earlier topic of sig health, the security sig is probably also fine by the tc's definition. the chair is still around and engaged in the community and holds irc meetings almost weekly, though these days it's almost exclusively vmt-related discussion | 16:05 |
| ricolin | fungi, that's good to know | 16:06 |
| fungi | we've also fairly consistently had at least one security sig block at every ptg | 16:07 |
| fungi | and some activity in the #openstack-security irc channel (though again it's mostly public vulnerability management discussions) | 16:08 |
| gmann | I think we should re-iterate the active criteria for SIG current it is regular meeting etc | 16:08 |
| gmann | like some ML update or PTG gathering should be enough and as along as chair and co-chair is reachable | 16:08 |
| gmann | ricolin ^^ you are the right person on this | 16:09 |
| fungi | well, we previously said there just needed to be some regular activity reporting from each sig. that could be periodic irc meeting minutes, or quarterly summaries posted to the ml, ot update presentations at summit, et cetera | 16:09 |
| gmann | fungi: +1, much active than most of other SIG | 16:09 |
| fungi | yeah, so anyway i agree that the activity reporting expectations are sufficiently loose already | 16:10 |
| fungi | basically the tc should be able to look in a few places and quickly determine that the sig is alive | 16:10 |
| ricolin | fungi, we have work on renew the SIG status base on SIG's suggestion an year ago | 16:11 |
| ricolin | maybe we can do it again | 16:11 |
| fungi | are there recent meeting minutes on eavesdrop? alive. did someone post a summary to the ml in the past few months? alive. was there a presentaiton at the summit? alive... | 16:12 |
| gmann | yeah | 16:12 |
| fungi | ricolin: totally, it's good to look through the list and determine which ones have ceased to gather and collaborate on anything, and clean them from the list of sigs or at least update their status column to something like "defunct" | 16:14 |
| ricolin | I can help to reach out to SIGs on ML/private mail to check their current status, or are you suggest TC should step in and make the call? | 16:14 |
| ricolin | fungi, ^^^ | 16:14 |
| fungi | also some of the nascent sigs which were added to the list don't appear to have materialized | 16:14 |
| gmann | we can choose one of the defined status - https://governance.openstack.org/sigs/reference/sig-guideline.html#keeping-sig-status-up-to-date | 16:15 |
| fungi | ricolin: well, sigs are under the governance of the tc now (since absorbing the uc), so it's up to the tc or their delegates in the meta sig to decide which sigs are listed | 16:16 |
| fungi | presumably the tc would rely on the meta sig to take care of it | 16:16 |
| ricolin | fungi, there's no meta sig anymore FYI | 16:17 |
| fungi | but at this point the role of the meta sig is itself a little redundant because it's no longer a proxy for shared tc/uc oversight | 16:17 |
| gmann | we can consider the SIG status check or retirement same way as prjojects | 16:17 |
| fungi | aha, then yes the tc | 16:17 |
| ricolin | everything point to tc now | 16:17 |
| gmann | yeah | 16:18 |
| ricolin | gmann, +1 | 16:18 |
| ricolin | I probably to it tomorrow or early next week | 16:23 |
| ricolin | s/to/do/ | 16:24 |
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| smcginnis | tc-members: I have gotten word back from the Foundation on the vetting for the X release name. | 18:01 |
| fungi | *drumroll* | 18:02 |
| smcginnis | As brought up here, it did turn out there were issues with the top pick of Xanadu. | 18:02 |
| smcginnis | The second place name of Xena was good though. | 18:02 |
| smcginnis | Sorry Olivia Newton John. | 18:02 |
| fungi | oh, cool, for some reason i misheard wes and thought he was saying the first five or so selections all had problems | 18:02 |
| smcginnis | Before I sent any kind of announcement on this, since there were some... issues... with the polling, I wanted to get the OK from the TC before announcing anything. | 18:03 |
| smcginnis | fungi: This is what I received: "We've run the checks on our end and it looks like "Xena" is the best bet for this release." | 18:03 |
| fungi | cool, thanks for distilling it! | 18:11 |
| gmann | sounds good. +1 | 18:17 |
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| jungleboyj | smcginnis: THanks for the update! Sounds good to me. | 18:29 |
| jungleboyj | Thank goodness I don't have to have Xanadu going through my head for the next 6 months. | 18:30 |
| fungi | i can totally still make that happen you know | 18:30 |
| jungleboyj | Please sir. No. | 18:30 |
| fungi | granted it might contravene some international treaties | 18:31 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 18:31 |
| fungi | sounds like a challenge to up my rickrolling game | 18:32 |
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