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| apevec | mnaser, following up Dec 17 TC meeting: RDO (me, amoralej et al) would hold video AMA on Stream next Thu, I hope proposed slot after Thu TC will work | 11:43 |
|---|---|---|
| apevec | Thursday Jan 21 1600 UTC | 11:44 |
| apevec | are there any big known conflicts at that time slot? | 11:44 |
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| mnaser | i think that should be ok afaik apevec | 14:52 |
| knikolla | o/ | 14:54 |
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| mnaser | #startmeeting tc | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jan 14 15:00:11 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mnaser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| mnaser | #topic rollcall | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:00 | |
| gmann | o/ | 15:00 |
| belmoreira | o/ | 15:00 |
| ricolin | o/ | 15:01 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 15:02 |
| mnaser | hrm, i guess we can still meet and don't necessarily require a quorum? | 15:04 |
| jungleboyj | Ok with me. | 15:04 |
| fungi | technically it won't count as a "meeting" for purposes of satisfying the bylaws and charter requirements, but as long as it's not every time it's fine | 15:04 |
| gmann | 6 are here if knikolla is still here | 15:04 |
| knikolla | o/ | 15:05 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 15:05 |
| mnaser | fungi: we'll need 1/4 times a month to hit quorum ;P | 15:05 |
| mnaser | i'll take my chances ha | 15:05 |
| * knikolla lost track of time | 15:05 | |
| fungi | quorum is mostly important if binding decisions are going to be made *in* the meeting, which the tc doesn't do these days thanks to gerrit | 15:05 |
| mnaser | #topic Follow up on past action items | 15:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Follow up on past action items (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:05 | |
| mnaser | diablo_rojo complete retirement of karbor | 15:05 |
| mnaser | i think that's mostly been done, we just need https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-config/+/767057 rebased | 15:06 |
| mnaser | and then we can merge the governance patch | 15:06 |
| mnaser | i'll keep it on the list till next week to keep following up with it | 15:06 |
| mnaser | #action diablo_rojo complete retirement of karbor | 15:06 |
| mnaser | mnaser submit a patch to officially list no community goals for X cycle | 15:07 |
| mnaser | i submitted a patch and started getting feedback which is good :) | 15:07 |
| jungleboyj | ++ | 15:07 |
| jungleboyj | Thanks for doing that. | 15:07 |
| mnaser | dont think we need that as an action item to follow up anymore, this lives in gerrit now to continue | 15:07 |
| gmann | yeah, that works | 15:07 |
| mnaser | diablo_rojo reach out to SIGs/ML and start auditing states of SIGs | 15:07 |
| mnaser | we have a topic for this that we can re-add the action item to | 15:08 |
| mnaser | diablo_rojo update resolution for tc stance on osc -- that was done and looks like we're progressing on reviews, no need for an action item imho, as it's an open review / disucssion | 15:08 |
| mnaser | gmann continue to audit tags + outreach to community to apply for them <= we can keep that for the discussion later too imho | 15:09 |
| gmann | yeah close to merge once dansmith comments are resolved for CI things | 15:09 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:09 |
| mnaser | #topic Write a proposed goal for X about stabilization/cooldown (mnaser) | 15:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Write a proposed goal for X about stabilization/cooldown (mnaser) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:09 | |
| dansmith | o/ | 15:09 |
| mnaser | #action mnaser to remove proposed goal topic from agenda | 15:09 |
| mnaser | i think this mostly continues to live inside gerrit imho | 15:10 |
| mnaser | (going through those quickly to have more time for the later topics :]) | 15:10 |
| jungleboyj | Makes sense. | 15:10 |
| mnaser | #topic Audit SIG list and chairs (diablo_rojo) | 15:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Audit SIG list and chairs (diablo_rojo) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:10 | |
| mnaser | no progress update, we'll keep an action item to keep up with it | 15:11 |
| mnaser | #action diablo_rojo reach out to SIGs/ML and start auditing states of SIGs | 15:11 |
| jungleboyj | Kind of seems like we need diablo_rojo for all of this. :-) | 15:11 |
| mnaser | #topic Annual report suggestions (diablo_rojo) | 15:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Annual report suggestions (diablo_rojo) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:11 | |
| gmann | ricolin also mentioned to help on SIG audit in previous discussion, not sure if he has some updates to share | 15:11 |
| ricolin | diablo_rojo let me know if you need help on SIGs auditing | 15:11 |
| mnaser | #action mnaser remove annual report suggestions from agenda | 15:12 |
| mnaser | (its getting drafted so too late to make changes so we can close that out) | 15:12 |
| ricolin | gmann, I didn't get anything on that yet | 15:12 |
| mnaser | and ricolin that's awesome, i think it would be good to connect with kendall on that | 15:12 |
| gmann | ok | 15:12 |
| ricolin | mnaser, sure, or I can just take that action if diablo_rojo is not available for now | 15:12 |
| mnaser | #topic Add Resolution of TC stance on the OpenStackClient (diablo_rojo) | 15:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add Resolution of TC stance on the OpenStackClient (diablo_rojo) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:12 | |
| mnaser | ricolin: i will leave it for you and diablo_rojo to figure out how you want to sort that out together :) | 15:13 |
| mnaser | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/759904 | 15:13 |
| mnaser | i know dansmith had some comments on having the CI / docs language in there | 15:13 |
| mnaser | which i think make sense to me | 15:14 |
| dansmith | yeah | 15:14 |
| dansmith | I think it just got lost in all the worddansmithing | 15:14 |
| mnaser | dansmith: do you think you could respin that with some of the wording ideas you had? i think kendall would probably appreciate that help | 15:14 |
| gmann | yeah, good to mention that too | 15:14 |
| mnaser | _if_ you can :) | 15:14 |
| dansmith | sure I can | 15:14 |
| mnaser | that would be great and helpful and then we can help land it | 15:14 |
| dansmith | I know diablo_rojo_phon is like super defensive of turf, so I didn't want to run afoul of any good neighbor rules | 15:15 |
| mnaser | ahaha , i don't think so =P | 15:15 |
| dansmith | hehe | 15:15 |
| mnaser | #action dansmith update osc change to include ci/docs commentary | 15:15 |
| mnaser | #topic Audit and clean-up tags (gmann) | 15:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Audit and clean-up tags (gmann) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:16 | |
| gmann | bumped the email with ptl tag for API interoperability tag | 15:16 |
| gmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2021-January/019814.html | 15:16 |
| gmann | let's see how many projects start applying it | 15:16 |
| gmann | nothing else to update on this. | 15:17 |
| mnaser | ok, thank you for following up on this | 15:17 |
| mnaser | i'll rename this topic | 15:17 |
| mnaser | #topic infra-core additions (was Farewell Andreas) (diablo_rojo) | 15:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "infra-core additions (was Farewell Andreas) (diablo_rojo) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:18 | |
| mnaser | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/project:openstack/project-config+is:open | 15:18 |
| mnaser | the repo seems to be quiet and there isn't really a backlog (yet) | 15:18 |
| fungi | i've been trying to pay a little more attention to changes in there | 15:19 |
| gmann | yeah few of them can be merged for label things which just lost somehow | 15:19 |
| fungi | mainly to make sure folks don't wait on simple requests like project creation or job shuffling | 15:19 |
| mnaser | thanks fungi -- i should try to make a bit of an effort, feel free to ping me for reviews anytime | 15:19 |
| gmann | I will also try to review those today | 15:19 |
| fungi | gladly, thanks! | 15:19 |
| fungi | we should also bring up this topic in the opendev infrastructure meeting, maybe get it on the agenda for next tuesday | 15:20 |
| mnaser | i don't know if there is anything actionable yet | 15:20 |
| mnaser | but maybe as we get more into the year things start picking up again | 15:21 |
| fungi | we can at least quickly mention that it's worth keeping an eye out for any frequent config reviewers who could help us merge stuff if they had +2 permissions | 15:21 |
| openstackgerrit | Dan Smith proposed openstack/governance master: Add Resolution of TC stance on the OpenStackClient https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/759904 | 15:21 |
| fungi | but i agree, that's probably not the case just yet | 15:21 |
| dansmith | ignore this ^ | 15:21 |
| mnaser | agreed | 15:21 |
| mnaser | #action mnaser add openstack/infra-core as discussion topic in opendev meeting | 15:22 |
| mnaser | i say we can drop the topic (for now).. and we can agree to work with opendev if we start to develop some sorts of a backlog | 15:22 |
| fungi | get it onto the agenda before monday if possible, because clarkb usually announces the agenda on the ml a day ahead | 15:23 |
| gmann | make sense | 15:23 |
| mnaser | ack, i'll try to get it done today | 15:23 |
| ricolin | +1 | 15:23 |
| fungi | thanks! | 15:23 |
| mnaser | i'll keep it here so i have a chance to update the tc on it next week | 15:23 |
| mnaser | #topic Dropping lower-constraints testing from all projects (gmann) | 15:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Dropping lower-constraints testing from all projects (gmann) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:23 | |
| gmann | yeah this is something projects asked to TC for consensus and direction for all proejcts | 15:24 |
| gmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2021-January/019672.html | 15:24 |
| gmann | this is ML with other ML thread link too | 15:24 |
| gmann | oslo, ironic, and i thin neutron already started dropping l-c job | 15:25 |
| gmann | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/topic:%22oslo_lc_drop%22+(status:open%20OR%20status:merged) | 15:25 |
| slaweq | gmann: neutron only for stable branches for now | 15:25 |
| gmann | slaweq: i see, thanks | 15:25 |
| slaweq | we discussed that in our team meeting and decided to go that way for now | 15:25 |
| gmann | nova also made them n-v for stable branch | 15:25 |
| mnaser | hrm | 15:27 |
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| gmann | l-c testing is not part of PTI i think but we should provide some direction here for consistency testing and providing lower bound to package maintainer or so | 15:27 |
| knikolla | keystone has dropped l-c for now too. | 15:27 |
| gmann | ah did nt know about keystone, thanks knikolla for update | 15:28 |
| gmann | I do not have any package maintenance experience so do not know how much helpful current l-c file is for them | 15:28 |
| openstackgerrit | Dan Smith proposed openstack/governance master: Add Resolution of TC stance on the OpenStackClient https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/759904 | 15:29 |
| mnaser | honestly it sounds like our current l-c were not exactly testing in a valid way | 15:29 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:29 |
| fungi | i doubt any distro packagers directly rely on the lower-constraints.txt files in projects for anything, but they may indirectly rely on our lower bounds checking to ensure that our projects actually work with the minim versions of dependencies we list in our requirements.txt files | 15:30 |
| mnaser | maybe if apevec is around or can ping someone from the rdo team to answer ^ | 15:30 |
| fungi | so if someone can work out a consistent, deterministic means of testing lower bounds then it might be of some benefit to package maintainers | 15:30 |
| gmann | true | 15:30 |
| knikolla | an automated way to keep those up to date too, would be quite helpful. | 15:31 |
| fungi | but i doubt jobs which aren't actually testing our lower bounds (like the l-c jobs before pip's dep solver got smart enough to tell us) were doing anyone any good | 15:31 |
| mnaser | fungi: which further proves that they weren't being consumed by distros | 15:31 |
| mnaser | because otherwise they'd all be broken | 15:31 |
| mnaser | (a long time ago) | 15:31 |
| apevec | fungi, we don't rely on lower-constraints | 15:32 |
| fungi | htanks for confirming! | 15:32 |
| fungi | er, thanks | 15:32 |
| mnaser | so that rules out rdo, so does debian/ubuntu/opensuse rely on it is the remaining question | 15:33 |
| dansmith | well, whats-his-face chimed in right? | 15:33 |
| fungi | zigo was the only package maintainer i recall speaking up on the discuss ml asking us to keep testing our minimum versions | 15:33 |
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| dansmith | yar, zigo | 15:33 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:33 |
| mnaser | right, but i don't know if that was "we use it" or "it is something that's nice to have" | 15:34 |
| fungi | but didn't directly acknowledge that the jobs never actually tested what folks thought they were testing to begin with | 15:34 |
| rosmaita | another question is whether there would be a problem if we keep the minima in requirements as close to the upper-constraints as possible? | 15:34 |
| apevec | we track u-c and keep our deps on that upper end, doing period sync e.g. https://review.rdoproject.org/r/#/c/31545/ | 15:34 |
| rosmaita | my understanding of the l-c was that it gave packagers a wider range to choose from to satisfy several projects | 15:34 |
| mnaser | i just pinged jamespage in #openstack-charms to hear if they use it, i suspect they don't | 15:34 |
| mnaser | i think the only reason why debian is concerned is because it ships _as part of debian_ and not some extra repo so that might be useful | 15:35 |
| mnaser | uca/rdo all ship diffferent repos with all their own packaging | 15:35 |
| gmann | this one from zigo http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2021-January/019684.html | 15:35 |
| fungi | rosmaita: correct, or rather us keeping looser minimums gave them that option | 15:35 |
| mnaser | so they just ship with upper constraints | 15:35 |
| knikolla | also, the tests in the respective tox.ini files use upper contraints | 15:36 |
| mnaser | yup | 15:36 |
| gmann | knikolla: expect l-c tox env, rest all yes use u-c | 15:36 |
| rosmaita | yes, most testing (except for the l-c job) is being done with versions close to the upper-constraints | 15:36 |
| rosmaita | what gmann said | 15:36 |
| knikolla | but the l-c job also only tests that the dependencies are installed, and doesn't run the actual tests, right? | 15:37 |
| rosmaita | runs unit tests, i believe | 15:37 |
| fungi | django is the perennial example. horizon is only one of many bits of software in the broader ecosystem which relies on django. it's easier on distros if most projects can use a common version of django so that they don't have to carry multiple django releases in the distro. if we aggressively bump our django minimum in horizon, *that's* what makes their job harder (as does not aggressively raising our | 15:37 |
| fungi | max cap on django in horizon) | 15:37 |
| mnaser | getting a more detailed confirmation but from #openstack-charms: "<jamespage> mnaser: I don't think so - I believe we still focus on alignment with upper-constraints" | 15:37 |
| gmann | yes unit test does not actually test for exact lower bound and all | 15:37 |
| mnaser | so that's two packagers that don't care about them | 15:38 |
| mnaser | <coreycb> mnaser: thanks for checking, we try to align as best we can with upper-constraints. I don't think we ever look at lower-constraints. | 15:38 |
| mnaser | so that leaves debian and suse | 15:38 |
| mnaser | for suse we can discuss in the next point, and debian perhaps we can reach out to zigo and ask if that's actually used in some sort of job? | 15:39 |
| mnaser | and if no one uses it... | 15:39 |
| gmann | yeah, next topic is for suse testing support | 15:39 |
| fungi | what was previously happening with the l-c jobs and older pip is that it was installing the exact versions listed in lower-constraintx.txt, but not all the transitive dependency set was necessarily listed there, and pip was also potentially installing versions of packages which conflicted with minimum or max cap requirements in other dependencies (so could have been subject to subtle incompatibility | 15:39 |
| fungi | bugs not apparent in unit testing, for example) | 15:39 |
| mnaser | could someone reach out to the ML and check if zigo can confirm if its a "nice code quality thing" or "we actually have things that actively use them" ? | 15:40 |
| mnaser | for suse, we can leave that for the next point | 15:40 |
| rosmaita | fungi: exactly, that is my worry about having too wide a gap between the minima in requirements and upper-constraints | 15:40 |
| gmann | mnaser: sure, i can check that | 15:41 |
| mnaser | #action gmann follow-up with zigo if debian uses l-c | 15:41 |
| mnaser | IMHO, if no one uses it, we can drop it, one less thing for us to worry about that is of no benefit (other than mostly for packagers) | 15:41 |
| mnaser | and they don't care about it, we should invest our time elsewhere :) | 15:41 |
| mnaser | (and also, adding that it also wasn't reliable) | 15:42 |
| rosmaita | ok, so the advantage of the l-c job is that it (sort of) kept us honest about the minima in our requirements | 15:42 |
| mnaser | rosmaita: correct! | 15:42 |
| rosmaita | but if we are aggressive about keeping the requirements updated, that won't be a problem | 15:42 |
| mnaser | but most packagers don't seem to rely on it and ship upper-constraints anyways | 15:42 |
| rosmaita | so it sounds like updating requirements to pip freeze at milestone-3 is a good idea? | 15:43 |
| mnaser | so they're always shipping the upper-constraints (which makes sense, cause that's also what openstack upstream ci tests with, minimize any chances of incompatibilities) | 15:43 |
| mnaser | not necessarily, because we have no versions for the msot part in reqs, and upper-constraints is the upper boundary | 15:44 |
| rosmaita | i mean requirements.txt in each deliverable | 15:44 |
| mnaser | upper-constraints is mostly frozen | 15:44 |
| mnaser | and all packagers rely on those, so there's no point to freeze it twice | 15:44 |
| mnaser | so if glance relies on sqlalchemy, and u-c contains 'sqlalchemy==1.4.0' inside stable/victoria, then rdo will produce python-sqlalchemy-1.4.0 which will be a dependecny of glance package | 15:45 |
| mnaser | the same way that our CI would test glance with that version of sqlalchemy | 15:45 |
| mnaser | i think we can move onto the next topic with an action item of reaching out to debian and suse will be discussed next and follow up on the progress there | 15:47 |
| gmann | and we can remove (after Debian checks) it from master as well as from stable branch, | 15:47 |
| rosmaita | ok, so is the consensus that the minimum version of some dependency in requirements.txt for cinder does *not* mean that cinder can actually work with that version? | 15:47 |
| fungi | that makes sense when the package is only a dependency of an openstack project, it becomes harder when it's a common dependency of openstack projects and also a lot of non-openstack projects carried by the distro | 15:47 |
| rosmaita | so we only need to update minima "on demand", which could force a change to upper-constraints if necessary | 15:48 |
| fungi | just "follow our upper constraints" isn't always an option for large distros, unfortunately | 15:48 |
| rosmaita | right, so it does sound like some kind of lower bound is useful | 15:48 |
| gmann | yeah, follow u-c is much safe and reliable | 15:48 |
| mnaser | rosmaita: i would argue that cinder shouldnt pin versions and not worry about minimas and rely on upper constraints | 15:48 |
| mnaser | and fungi agreed, but it looks like most popular openstack distros are very much 'fully vendored distros' | 15:48 |
| rosmaita | mnaser: that's what happens in practice, my statement is about what expectations people should have in looking at requirements.txt | 15:49 |
| fungi | yeah, it's ultimately still up to the package maintainers in distros to solve the problem of getting openstack and gnome and kubernetes and anything else you can imagine co-installable | 15:49 |
| fungi | mnaser: i don't know what a "fully vendored distro" is, but you can explain it after the meeting | 15:50 |
| gmann | I think rosmaita has good point that if requirement.txt stats the lower bound then it is not so reliable so why having those? | 15:50 |
| mnaser | requirements.txt in most openstack projects are meaningless in my experience | 15:50 |
| mnaser | if you're not adding upper constraints, you're getting a broken install | 15:50 |
| fungi | it's been relied on as a means of triggering pip to upgrade dependencies in an existing environment when updating a package where the lower bound increases | 15:50 |
| rosmaita | well, we still need to know when to adjust upper constraints | 15:51 |
| mnaser | fungi: oh, i see your point, in case someone doesn't use -U | 15:51 |
| rosmaita | happens when cinder says foo>1.2 and u-c has foo==1.1 | 15:51 |
| fungi | well, even if they do use -U and the upgrade strategy is to only upgrade what's necessary | 15:51 |
| fungi | pip has multiple upgrade strategies | 15:51 |
| mnaser | right, yes, you'll have to bump u-c first and then 'pin' the newer version afterwards | 15:51 |
| mnaser | it sounds like requirements.txt might have been lower-constraints all along :) | 15:52 |
| fungi | and people sometimes have to mix distro-supplied python modules with some from pypi, so pip not touching the distro-supplied ones is helpful | 15:52 |
| rosmaita | mnaser: i am thinking so too | 15:52 |
| mnaser | but maybe not a lower-constraints as much as it is .. lower-requirements | 15:53 |
| mnaser | "you need to be newer than this but that's all i'm declaring" | 15:53 |
| mnaser | i'd like us to have time for the next subject | 15:53 |
| gmann | requirements.txt can match with u-c but not with exact lower bound | 15:53 |
| mnaser | so i think we should keep this as an open topic for next week | 15:53 |
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| rosmaita | sounds good, i think we are approaching some clarity | 15:53 |
| gmann | yeah, we will get debian check also meanwhile | 15:53 |
| mnaser | yep | 15:53 |
| mnaser | thanks for joining rosmaita and apevec, fungi for feedback | 15:54 |
| rosmaita | np | 15:54 |
| mnaser | #topic Decide on OpenSUSE in testing runtime (gmann) | 15:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Decide on OpenSUSE in testing runtime (gmann) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:54 | |
| mnaser | sad to see and say, but i'm for it | 15:55 |
| gmann | opensuse distro job is broken for a month and devstack team is approaching towards removing it #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/devstack/+/769884 | 15:55 |
| mnaser | there is no investment from the company (as we know this) and none from the community from what i see | 15:55 |
| gmann | if we have any maintainer we can add it back anytime | 15:55 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:55 |
| jungleboyj | They stated that they weren't going to be continuing to support it. | 15:56 |
| clarkb | is it broken on master or just stable? | 15:56 |
| clarkb | I had sort of been tending to it on master and I thought it was fine there (but also haven't had much time for it recently so maybe that changed) | 15:56 |
| gmann | master also | 15:57 |
| mnaser | https://zuul.opendev.org/t/openstack/builds?job_name=devstack-platform-opensuse-15 | 15:57 |
| gmann | https://zuul.openstack.org/builds?job_name=devstack-platform-opensuse-15+ | 15:57 |
| gmann | ah you are fast :) | 15:57 |
| mnaser | :P | 15:57 |
| mnaser | https://zuul.opendev.org/t/openstack/builds?job_name=devstack-platform-opensuse-15&result=SUCCESS | 15:57 |
| mnaser | the most recent pass was 3rd of december 2020 | 15:57 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:58 |
| clarkb | ah ok so it was working until recently. I wasn't compeltely crazy :) | 15:58 |
| mnaser | stable seems to be broken with WARNING: this script has not been tested on opensuse-15.2 | 15:58 |
| mnaser | master broken with ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'six' | 15:59 |
| mnaser | but i think it's just a matter of extra load on the devstack team | 15:59 |
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| gmann | yeah and team has really less bandwidth | 15:59 |
| mnaser | we will need a change on https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/project-testing-interface.html#linux-distributions | 16:00 |
| gmann | also in wallaby testing runtime if we remove testing now -https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/runtimes/wallaby.html | 16:00 |
| mnaser | and maybe for Xena we will drop it from the tested runtimes | 16:00 |
| mnaser | should we drop it from https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/runtimes/wallaby.html too? | 16:00 |
| gmann | I think so if we remove the testing now | 16:00 |
| ricolin | I think we should | 16:01 |
| mnaser | gmann: how about we make the governance change and if that goes through we merge the devstack one | 16:01 |
| ricolin | as it said `Tested` Runtimes for Wallaby | 16:01 |
| mnaser | (which it will, but just as part process and the suse job is quickly and quietly failing anyways) | 16:01 |
| gmann | sure, from testing runtime and /project-testing-interface.html#linux-distributions both? | 16:01 |
| mnaser | i think so | 16:01 |
| gmann | ok will do today | 16:02 |
| mnaser | any closing thoughts? :) | 16:02 |
| ricolin | do we care to have a ML out for this too? | 16:02 |
| gmann | before or after moving testing/governance change? | 16:03 |
| ricolin | after gov IMO | 16:03 |
| gmann | *removing | 16:03 |
| ricolin | fine to do it before/after testing | 16:03 |
| gmann | yeah i think that will helpful to notify wider people | 16:04 |
| fungi | as a wider person, i appreciate notification of things ;) | 16:04 |
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| gmann | I can put once we finish the changes | 16:05 |
| mnaser | thank you gmann | 16:05 |
| ricolin | gmann, thx, short notice will do IMO:) | 16:05 |
| gmann | sure | 16:05 |
| mnaser | #action gmann update supported distros to drop opensuse | 16:05 |
| mnaser | i think that's it? | 16:05 |
| gmann | yeah. | 16:05 |
| mnaser | thank you all :) | 16:06 |
| mnaser | #endmeeting | 16:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Technical Committee office hours: Tuesdays at 09:00 UTC, Wednesdays at 01:00 UTC, and Thursdays at 15:00 UTC | https://governance.openstack.org/tc/ | channel logs http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-tc/" | 16:06 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jan 14 16:06:06 2021 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:06 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-01-14-15.00.html | 16:06 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-01-14-15.00.txt | 16:06 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-01-14-15.00.log.html | 16:06 |
| jungleboyj | Thanks everyone. | 16:06 |
| gmann | thanks everyone | 16:08 |
| clarkb | I know the meeting has ended but my day only just started :) | 16:09 |
| clarkb | it is worth noting that openstack has a significant backlog in zuul right now | 16:10 |
| clarkb | like 24 hours for getting your nova or neutron changes tested | 16:10 |
| clarkb | I looked at it briefly yesterday before calling it a day and noticed that neutron changes in check run something like 36 jobs each. Some of which look like they never pass (something to do with loki and uwsgi) | 16:11 |
| dansmith | I was just asking about this in the nova meeting, yeah | 16:11 |
| dansmith | it's suuper bad | 16:11 |
| dansmith | is that just workload or is something failing? | 16:11 |
| gmann | yeah, even devstack too | 16:11 |
| clarkb | additionally neutron runs tripleo jobs which seem to run a job that builds all the tripleo images first then the long jobs and that whole process takes like 3-4 hours | 16:11 |
| clarkb | dansmith: its load as far as I can tell | 16:11 |
| dansmith | oof | 16:11 |
| clarkb | nodepool and zuul are going full steam ahead and yall are throwing more at it than it can handle | 16:12 |
| dansmith | but what about the neutron jobs that never pass? are they n-v? | 16:12 |
| clarkb | dansmith: they are, but they also take an hour and use at least one test node for that time | 16:12 |
| clarkb | really for throughput here what matters is cpu time consumed and every job adds to that | 16:12 |
| dansmith | ack, so.. we need to ask some neutron people to review things? | 16:12 |
| clarkb | yes and tripleo I think | 16:12 |
| slaweq | dansmith: I will take a look at those non-voting jobs | 16:12 |
| dansmith | slaweq: thanks | 16:13 |
| clarkb | neutron also had a gate reset caused by pylint | 16:13 |
| clarkb | yesterday when I looked gate resets didn't seem to be a major problem though | 16:13 |
| slaweq | clarkb: what You mean by "gate reset"? I'm not familiar with that | 16:14 |
| clarkb | slaweq: when a job fails in the gate all of the changes that come after the change that has a failuer have their jobs stopped and discarded. Zuul then removes the change that failed from their git history and reparents to the nearest non failing change. Then starts jobs over again with the new git state | 16:14 |
| slaweq | clarkb: ahh, ok | 16:15 |
| slaweq | thx | 16:15 |
| clarkb | slaweq: this is a common source of zuul backlog problems beacuse the gate gets priority and if you have a deep gate queue that is reset frequently you end up throwing away those priority resources and starting over and over and over | 16:15 |
| fungi | this is a significant part of how we are able to test changes in parallel while still being sure they don't break one another | 16:15 |
| clarkb | right now I think we're hitting that at times, but not over and over and over | 16:15 |
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| clarkb | the bigger issue seems to simply be significant demand for resources via direct demand | 16:17 |
| clarkb | on the tripleo side of things it seems like maybe images are being rebuilt for master, victoria, ussuri, and train on many (all?) changes but then there don't seem to be branch specific jobs that consume them | 16:18 |
| clarkb | also I think this was a response to docker hub rate limiting. quay.io claims to not rate limit image downloads and maybe that can be used as an alternative to rebuilding all the images all the time | 16:19 |
| clarkb | (and its possible I'm missing something here because those jobs are large and complicated) | 16:19 |
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| rlandy | clarkb: hi - apevec let us know you have some concerns about the length of the gate and the provider jobs building container images ... we (marios) has a bunch of patches out to address this ... https://review.opendev.org/q/topic:reduce-content-providers | 16:28 |
| rlandy | ie: unnecessary branches running | 16:28 |
| rlandy | was related to requirements for upgrades jobs | 16:29 |
| clarkb | rlandy: yes the extra branches was one concern. THe other is that maybe we can leverage something like quay.io to avoid rebuilding all the things all the time? | 16:29 |
| clarkb | supposedly they don't rate limit image downloads | 16:29 |
| clarkb | and I think tripleo looked into it at one time though I don't know if it was rejected for a specific reason | 16:29 |
| rlandy | we are using quay.io - but we have also experienced connection drops etc. there | 16:30 |
| clarkb | I see | 16:30 |
| rlandy | we only fall back to docker.io in rare cases | 16:30 |
| rlandy | I know that weshay was looking into various options with quay.io for better results | 16:30 |
| rlandy | he will be back tomorrow | 16:31 |
| clarkb | rlandy: it seems like the content-provider jobs take sigifnicant time though (I mean they pause while the other jobs run but before the other jobs runs the content provider jobs are not fast) | 16:31 |
| clarkb | I wouldn't expect that if you are fetching a cached minimal delta from quay | 16:31 |
| rlandy | we can pick up the discussion on how far he got with that | 16:31 |
| rlandy | clarkb: correct - the content provider jobs do take time - but it serves us better than multiple failing jobs because we get rate limited | 16:32 |
| rlandy | the theory was that we should only pull containers once per job testing | 16:33 |
| rlandy | that being said, they are not always stable | 16:33 |
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| rlandy | and there is work to do there | 16:33 |
| clarkb | ya thats all fine, more that I woudl expect that to be much faster | 16:33 |
| clarkb | but I haven't dug through the job logs much yet | 16:33 |
| rlandy | besides getting to a minimal set | 16:33 |
| rlandy | clarkb: we are actively looking at this | 16:33 |
| rlandy | and are opento your/infra ideas | 16:34 |
| clarkb | rlandy: I'll try to take a look at the content-provider logs today and see if anything jumps out to me | 16:34 |
| rlandy | clarkb: sure - again, we can review when weshay returns tomorrow - considering where he left off on the investigation | 16:35 |
| clarkb | sounds good | 16:35 |
| rlandy | but yes, have beetr quay.io performance would help a lot | 16:35 |
| rlandy | thanks for your interest here | 16:35 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | Sorry I wasn't around for the meeting today. Was exhausted from all the craziness yesterday (we lost power and internet and cell service) | 16:36 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | mnaser ricolin dansmith jungleboyj ^ | 16:37 |
| dansmith | diablo_rojo_phon: we had a blip during the day, and then last night woke to a screeching alarm as PGE turned off power for a few minutes while doing repairs | 16:38 |
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| dansmith | kinda like "enjoy your power today, see you tonight" | 16:39 |
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| clarkb | dansmith: we lost power briefly at 2:30am and I discovered that one of my UPSs has a bad battery in the process. It was very unahppy and made lots of noise and woke me up. New battery should be here tuesday so as long as we avoid wind and rain again I'm hoping to avoid this experience | 16:44 |
| apevec | looks like Powerwall would be good to have! | 16:44 |
| dansmith | heh | 16:44 |
| clarkb | also my bike route was closed yseterday due to high water. I had to improvise | 16:45 |
| dansmith | *gasp* | 16:52 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | We had the same problem clarkb. An alarm in the server closet woke us up too. | 16:58 |
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| openstackgerrit | Ghanshyam proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Document $series-last tag for Temepst to test EM branches https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/769821 | 17:08 |
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| dansmith | happy to work near people for which "the server closet" is a socially acceptable and unsurprising reference | 17:46 |
| jungleboyj | dansmith: :-) I have a server room. Was one of the things that excited me when I found this house. | 17:57 |
| jungleboyj | Unfortunately everything is on shelves right now. Really need to get a Rack. | 17:58 |
| dansmith | yeah, it was a requirement for the current house | 17:58 |
| dansmith | I'm racked. | 17:58 |
| * jungleboyj is jealous | 17:58 | |
| fungi | i divested myself of server racks and pretty much all my large equipment when i moved to the beach | 17:59 |
| * dansmith points at the door | 17:59 | |
| jungleboyj | fungi: Well, we all have to make sacrifices to be at the beach. | 17:59 |
| fungi | yep, i'm goin' ;) | 17:59 |
| dansmith | jungleboyj: https://imgur.com/a/HqnFy5h | 18:02 |
| dansmith | could be neater, but... | 18:02 |
| fungi | nice! my final iteration, which lasted years, was two 7' freestanding racks bolted to a shipping pallet with an array of heavy-duty swivel casters mounted underneath. worked out really well | 18:04 |
| dansmith | hah, yeah I've had that setup before | 18:04 |
| jungleboyj | Holy cow! That puts my setup to shame. | 18:05 |
| jungleboyj | Something to shoot for when I grow up. | 18:06 |
| dansmith | that's only half the networking for the house, I have a closet upstairs with two more 24pt switches, another 24pt injector, connected to the main stuff with 4x aggregated GigE fiber | 18:07 |
| jungleboyj | How many physically connected devices do you have? | 18:07 |
| dansmith | ;pts | 18:07 |
| dansmith | *lots* | 18:07 |
| jungleboyj | I just got Gig fiber this fall so my upgrade was the a 48 port PoE switch. Really liking Ubiquiti stuff. Now managing multiple networks from the controller I have here. | 18:09 |
| dansmith | Got 52 macs from switch3 | 18:09 |
| dansmith | Got 21 macs from switch2 | 18:09 |
| dansmith | Got 76 macs from switch1 | 18:09 |
| dansmith | Got 56 macs from switch4 | 18:09 |
| dansmith | just a quick count ^ | 18:09 |
| jungleboyj | Wow. | 18:09 |
| dansmith | maybe ten of those are wireless devices, and maybe another five are multihomed machines that count twice | 18:09 |
| dansmith | actually, that may double the number, come to think of it | 18:10 |
| dansmith | but yeah, I'm guessing probably 100 unique macs | 18:10 |
| jungleboyj | My house is a little less busy. | 18:11 |
| jungleboyj | https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/L6ULQugX/image.png | 18:11 |
| dansmith | still respectable | 18:12 |
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| jungleboyj | I also have the inverters for my solar Panels in the server room. It can get a bit toasty in there. | 18:14 |
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| dansmith | all dino juice for me, baby | 18:15 |
| dansmith | in portland, solar panels are called "expensive house hats" | 18:15 |
| clarkb | dansmith: pge will sell you electricity that is hand wavily provided by green sources though | 18:15 |
| dansmith | clarkb: uh huh.. I pay them enough :) | 18:16 |
| dansmith | I think I'm in the third rung of "you use too much so you pay more" | 18:16 |
| dansmith | and they tell me what percentage is already green anyway, so I think I'm good | 18:16 |
| jungleboyj | :-) my electric company is quite progressive. They were more than happy to pay me for the power I produce. 11 kw on a good day. | 18:17 |
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| dansmith | jungleboyj: right, we would too, but only for three months out the year where the sun is visible | 18:17 |
| jungleboyj | Ah, good point. I get good sun at least 8 months of the year. | 18:18 |
| dansmith | gmann: http://logstash.openstack.org/#dashboard/file/logstash.json?query=message%3A%5C%22tempest.api.image.v2.test_images.MultiStoresImportImagesTest.test_glance_direct_import_image_to_all_stores.*inprogress%5C%22 | 18:21 |
| dansmith | oops | 18:21 |
| dansmith | wrong window | 18:21 |
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| fungi | i desperately need to run twisted pair throughout my house. i bought 330m of good shielded plenum grade stuff, as well as a 2m flexible auger bit and self-lit usb snake scope for piloting holes for conduit inside finished walls, a long spool of fish-tape for pulling wire, et cetera but finding the | 18:38 |
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| fungi | time is the real challenge | 18:38 |
| jungleboyj | fungi: ++ I have the wire and I have a hole to follow to the attic where they ran the solar conduit. Waiting for my friend who is good at crawling through attics to come help pull the wire. | 18:39 |
| dansmith | fungi: sounds like "priorities" are the problem. No rack? No wire? c'mon :) | 18:40 |
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| fungi | fair | 18:41 |
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| jungleboyj | he he. | 18:48 |
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| apevec | dansmith, nice setup! I wonder about that acoustic isolation on the wall behind rack, does that isolate well? | 19:22 |
| dansmith | apevec: it helps a little, but the thing that helps the most is quiet machines.. the R710, R610 are pretty quiet and those optiplex boxes are basically silent | 19:23 |
| dansmith | that room is dedicated to that purpose, has a door, and more foam on the back side of the door :) | 19:23 |
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| gouthamr | dansmith diablo_rojo: o/ hey, there is one thing bothering me about the "Add Resolution of TC stance on the OpenStackClient" - is there any reason we couldn't make the stance a bit more inclusive? - i don't want to assume the intent to call out Compute, Identity, Image, Object and Block Storage APIs, and someone comes along and asks, hey where's Networking - can we include Networking because it's a main service | 20:03 |
| gouthamr | :D | 20:03 |
| gouthamr | i know that osc started out with a small set of projects before the plugin architecture began, and now all projects can just plug in - so why not call that out in the stance? | 20:04 |
| openstackgerrit | Ghanshyam proposed openstack/governance master: Drop openSUSE from commonly tested distro list https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/770855 | 20:04 |
| openstackgerrit | Dan Smith proposed openstack/governance master: Add Resolution of TC stance on the OpenStackClient https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/759904 | 20:05 |
| dansmith | gouthamr: how about that? ^ | 20:05 |
| gouthamr | dansmith++ | 20:05 |
| gouthamr | dansmith: amazing, thank you for listening to the rant - glad you cut me off there :) | 20:06 |
| dansmith | gouthamr: np, sorry for not remembering to fix that whilst revising it | 20:07 |
| gmann | +1 | 20:07 |
| gmann | gouthamr: as you are here, reminding you for this tag for manila http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2021-January/019814.html | 20:07 |
| gouthamr | gmann: o/ oh yessir - i have an unfinished commit from before the holidays; glad you reminded me :) | 20:08 |
| gmann | :) | 20:08 |
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| openstackgerrit | Goutham Pacha Ravi proposed openstack/governance master: [manila] add assert:supports-api-interoperability https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/770859 | 20:23 |
| openstackgerrit | Ghanshyam proposed openstack/governance master: Define Xena release testing runtime https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/770860 | 20:25 |
| openstackgerrit | Ghanshyam proposed openstack/governance master: Define Xena release testing runtime https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/770860 | 20:26 |
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