| opendevreview | Merged openstack/governance master: Add Ghanshyam nomination as chair https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/831129 | 07:31 |
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| jungleboyj | gmann: et. al. rosmaita Was just making me aware of the use of 'Z' as a symbol of support for Russia's war in Ukarine: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60644832 | 14:35 |
| jungleboyj | Makes the name 'Zed' seem unsavory right now. Any chance we can switch to one of the 'losing' names from the list? | 14:36 |
| jungleboyj | tc-members ^^ | 14:36 |
| slaweq | jungleboyj: but that means that every "Z" name will be not good now, right? | 14:36 |
| dansmith | seriously, let's not be crazy here | 14:36 |
| slaweq | dansmith++ | 14:37 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | slaweq: +1 | 14:37 |
| jungleboyj | :-) Well, it is more the fact that people use 'Zed' to indicate 'Z' | 14:37 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | I don't think changing to a different Z name is gonna help | 14:37 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | Since we will always be shortening to 'Z release' anyway | 14:38 |
| dansmith | diablo_rojo_phone: I'd go further and say I'm *quite* sure it won't help :) | 14:38 |
| slaweq | jungleboyj: ahh, so Your concern is due to phonetics of how word "Zed" and letter "Z" sounds, right? | 14:38 |
| rosmaita | well, it's that the name of release is the name of the letter Z | 14:39 |
| jungleboyj | More with the fact that a number of European countries use 'Zed' as 'Z'. | 14:39 |
| slaweq | still I agree with dansmith and diablo_rojo_phone that we shouldn't go that crazy probably | 14:39 |
| dansmith | more than just european countries... | 14:39 |
| jungleboyj | Not a problem with the letter 'Z' in general. | 14:39 |
| fungi | how is z pronounced by ukranians and russians? | 14:39 |
| dansmith | IIRC, there is no Z in cyrillic | 14:40 |
| rosmaita | probable 'zed', it's not a cyrillic letter | 14:40 |
| jungleboyj | They use something that looks like '3' for Z . | 14:40 |
| slaweq | according to https://translate.google.com/?sl=uk&tl=en&text=z&op=translate it's something like "zi" | 14:40 |
| fungi | okay, so sounds like they probably don't say "zed" | 14:41 |
| jungleboyj | fungi: Well, that helps. | 14:41 |
| slaweq | in russian it sounds more like "zied" https://translate.google.com/?sl=ru&tl=en&text=z&op=translate | 14:42 |
| slaweq | so closer to Zed | 14:42 |
| dansmith | how are ya'll just noticing this? the Z symbology has been around for weeks | 14:42 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | The Zed release isn't for 6+ months at this point? I suspect by the time we market that release we will be past all this? | 14:43 |
| dansmith | I was betting someome would bring this up (although not from this group) and suggest we skip straight to AA | 14:43 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | dansmith: I think there have been more articles in the last 48 hours. | 14:43 |
| dansmith | mkay | 14:43 |
| rosmaita | dansmith: that was my thought (skip to AA), but it might break glance database upgrades | 14:43 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | dansmith: you think we all need AA?!? ;) | 14:43 |
| dansmith | diablo_rojo_phone: maybe, if we're going to get into this .. :) | 14:44 |
| jungleboyj | I just saw it today. | 14:44 |
| jungleboyj | I mean, it is probably a no-win situation so we might as well leave it as it is. | 14:44 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | dansmith: my cup is still full of uppers at this point in the day. | 14:44 |
| dansmith | diablo_rojo_phone: mine too, all legal and black as night | 14:45 |
| * jungleboyj laughs | 14:45 | |
| diablo_rojo_phone | I think that by the time we get around to marketing and proclaiming the Z release we will be past most of this. | 14:45 |
| jungleboyj | diablo_rojo_phone: *Fingers crossed* | 14:45 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | dansmith: samesies. | 14:45 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | jungleboyj: the articles at the very least will be long past. | 14:45 |
| dansmith | diablo_rojo_phone: fwiw, I don't, but I also don't think changing our release name is going to matter in the scheme of things | 14:46 |
| jungleboyj | Yeah, unfortunately I agree with dansmith on how long this may lst. | 14:47 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | Oh, I'm not thinking the tension will go away | 14:47 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | Or conflict | 14:47 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | Just all the 'Z' being the focus of the news. | 14:47 |
| jungleboyj | Well, I was surprised when someone asked me about the appropriateness of the name this morning. So, wanted to bring it up here. :-) So, now others will know too. :-) | 14:47 |
| rosmaita | it's just an unfortunate time to have the Z release coming out | 14:48 |
| rosmaita | if only we had known this in 2010 | 14:48 |
| jungleboyj | LOL. | 14:48 |
| slaweq | yeah, who could know | 14:48 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | jungleboyj: definitely good to note :) | 14:50 |
| jungleboyj | :-) There is going to be some sort of contention with any name. | 14:50 |
| fungi | specifically, on when we'll be issuing a press release about "zed" that's projected for october | 14:51 |
| dansmith | we seriously might want to reconsider just going to the new numbering scheme from belmiro and dropping the names and letters, as much as I like them, | 14:51 |
| dansmith | because there has been a lot of angst over this and recent names and I'm not sure it's worth our time | 14:51 |
| dansmith | we seriously might want to reconsider just going to the new numbering scheme from belmiro and dropping the names and letters, as much as I like them, | 14:51 |
| dansmith | because there has been a lot of angst over this and recent names and I'm not sure it's worth our time | 14:51 |
| fungi | remember, numbers can be controversial too! | 14:51 |
| dansmith | (I got dropped, not sure if those ^ came through) | 14:51 |
| jungleboyj | dansmith: They did. | 14:52 |
| jungleboyj | fungi: Thanks for that. ;-) | 14:52 |
| dansmith | fungi: sure, but if they're date based it'd be hard to argue for picking something else | 14:52 |
| dansmith | jungleboyj: ah, apologies | 14:52 |
| jungleboyj | dansmith: No need to apologize. I can spare the bandwidth. ;-) | 14:52 |
| fungi | dansmith: i'd have thought the same about letters, until someone raised a concern with a letter of the alphabet | 14:52 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 14:53 |
| dansmith | fungi: heh, well, let's just use git hashes then :) | 14:53 |
| gmann | tc-memebrs: read the log and I agree that we should avoid changing name and as slaweq mentioned any name from 'Z' letter can be issue | 14:59 |
| gmann | dansmith: not sure about removing the name/letter from release name (at least I too like them) but does every community like ubuntu etc has same issue with release name as we are having everytime:) | 15:00 |
| dansmith | gmann: do they? I guess they must, but it's just over my threshold for caring... :) | 15:01 |
| jungleboyj | I am sure that any community that uses names has issues. | 15:03 |
| dansmith | well, hence my suggestion to fix :) | 15:04 |
| jungleboyj | Anyway, I raised the question/concern. Fine with moving on. :-) | 15:04 |
| fungi | debian delegates release name choices to their release managers | 15:06 |
| gmann | dansmith: yeah, along with caring, for me it is always a good day for me if I see no issue raised on naming :) | 15:06 |
| fungi | (and chooses them 4+ years in advance) | 15:06 |
| dansmith | gmann: hah | 15:06 |
| gmann | fungi: it is not about who choose, it is just name always have issue especially where we need to consider whole world/culture. | 15:07 |
| gmann | release naming becoming more headache than fun now. | 15:09 |
| dansmith | right, that ^ :) | 15:14 |
| gmann | ok, let's update belmiro proposal to remove the name or we can add new one on top of it | 15:22 |
| dansmith | I think it's probably not fair to hijack his proposal, so I'd say let's propose as an amendment (if we think it's likely that people will agree) and keep discussion of that separate from his proposal | 15:23 |
| fungi | fwiw, there was a nearly identical proposal in the wake of the ussuri name choice which proposed just using numeric versions and dropping the use of release names completely | 15:24 |
| gmann | sure, and let's discuss in PTG too | 15:24 |
| gmann | so on Zed name, I see mixed opinion. and as cycle is not started, this is last chance for us to change it if we need to (though it need lot of work as most of the code directory/infra/documentation are prepared with Zed) | 15:24 |
| fungi | for bonus points, the abandoned proposal suggested dropping release names after the z release | 15:24 |
| fungi | if anyone wants to restore that proposal, it's probably already what you're suggesting be written | 15:25 |
| dansmith | gmann: I think we'd want to do it *after* z at this point, since we've already started digesting that name, and the end of the alphabet is a nice time to make a change | 15:27 |
| fungi | even if not, it's good to reread the arguments against the previous proposal to understand why it was rejected | 15:27 |
| dansmith | fungi: especially if those arguments are "this is the first time we've had a problem" and "I'm sure nobody would argue with, say, Zed" ;) | 15:28 |
| gmann | for Zed, it is different situation now. | 15:29 |
| fungi | https://review.opendev.org/675788 "Stop naming releases" | 15:29 |
| gmann | and also another argument can be "are we going to remove Z form this world as it is used in that way or any other letter/things ..." | 15:30 |
| rosmaita | yeah, i must say, of all the possible uncontroversial names, i would have said 'Zed' is the most uncontroversial ... shows what i know | 15:30 |
| gmann | and i became most controversial now :) | 15:31 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | rosmaita, I think that I literally thought that same thing as I was voting. | 15:37 |
| dtantsur | late (and only accidentally to the party): Z is not a thing in Russian, a similar sound is conveyed by З letter (yes, looks like a number), which is formally pronounced "ze" | 17:29 |
| gmann | dtantsur: I see, thanks for clarification. | 17:31 |
| dtantsur | sure thing, feel free to ping me (I'm not watching this channel all the time) | 17:32 |
| gmann | sure, ack. | 17:34 |
| gmann | dansmith: I added the release cadence topic (as discussed in nova channel) in TC+PTL etherpad topic L27, but we can adjust the time of that topic based on your availability during 14-16 UTC on Monday https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-ptl-interaction-zed | 17:37 |
| gmann | and if need more discussion then we can continue it in TC discussion slots on Thursday/Friday | 17:38 |
| dansmith | cool | 17:38 |
| dansmith | gmann: also reminder poke on: https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/832126/1/doc/source/deprecation.rst :) | 17:38 |
| gmann | tc-members ^^ good to spread it as it is good things to know by PTL/leaders etc | 17:38 |
| gmann | dansmith: yeah, I opened it yesterday, doing right now | 17:39 |
| dansmith | gmann: ack :) | 17:40 |
| *** odyssey4me is now known as Guest1620 | 17:47 | |
| jungleboyj | Just to be clear. I wasn't trying to create controversy over the 'Z' name. Just was asked about the whole Russian 'Z' thing and was throw off guard. I do think it is best to not change anything right now and to discuss what we do about naming in the future at the PTG. | 19:21 |
| fungi | and to reiterate, if there's a general consensus that release names are more hassle than they're worth, restoring https://review.opendev.org/675788 would be a quick way to move that discussion forward | 20:41 |
| jungleboyj | fungi: ++ | 20:42 |
| *** odyssey4me is now known as Guest1634 | 21:15 | |
| gmann | tc-members: call for the vice chair, please ping me if you are interested to help as vice chair. | 22:21 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/governance master: Update Arne email id https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/831847 | 22:30 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/governance master: Add sushy-oem-idrac as Hardware Vendor SIG owned https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/832264 | 22:34 |
| gmann | dansmith: left some comment on deprecation doc. let me know if I am misreading it or it is actually different form what we discussed in meeting. | 23:09 |
| dansmith | ack, but tomorrow | 23:10 |
| gmann | yeah sure, no urgency. | 23:10 |
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