| *** pojadhav- is now known as pojadhav | 06:33 | |
| wuchunyang | hi，team, Is there a PTL for Trove right now ？ | 08:24 |
|---|---|---|
| fungi | wuchunyang: not yet, no: https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/projects/trove.html | 11:37 |
| fungi | though since you volunteered on the mailing list i'm sure the tc members will discuss your offer | 11:38 |
| wuchunyang | thanks fungi | 11:38 |
| fungi | you're welcome | 11:39 |
| *** pojadhav is now known as pojadhav|afk | 12:46 | |
| *** pojadhav|afk is now known as pojadhav | 13:37 | |
| gmann | wuchunyang: thanks or volunteer, we will discuss in today meeting and let you know. | 14:26 |
| knikolla | i won't be able to attend the meeting today as I am out of office. | 14:45 |
| gmann | knikolla: ack, thanks for updates. | 14:45 |
| arne_wiebalck | gmann: I have the meeting clash we discussed. | 14:53 |
| gmann | tc-members: meeting in an 7 min from now in IRC | 14:53 |
| gmann | arne_wiebalck: ack. | 14:53 |
| jungleboyj | Ack | 14:59 |
| gmann | #startmeeting tc | 15:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Thu Mar 10 15:00:19 2022 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 15:00 |
| gmann | #topic Roll call | 15:00 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 15:00 |
| dansmith | o/ | 15:00 |
| rosmaita | o/ | 15:00 |
| slaweq | o/ | 15:00 |
| dmendiza[m] | 🙋 | 15:00 |
| gmann | o/ | 15:01 |
| spotz_ | o/ | 15:02 |
| arne_wiebalck | o/ | 15:02 |
| gmann | #topic Follow up on past action items | 15:02 |
| gmann | - gmann to add the FIPs testing direction in next meeting agenda | 15:03 |
| gmann | added in agenda and we will discuss in end of today meeting | 15:03 |
| gmann | - slaweq to send the ML to call for PTL for adjutant and trove project | 15:03 |
| gmann | slaweq: sent on ML | 15:03 |
| slaweq | I did :) | 15:03 |
| slaweq | and there are some volunteers potentially | 15:04 |
| gmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2022-March/027557.html | 15:04 |
| gmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2022-March/027558.html | 15:04 |
| slaweq | thx gmann for links | 15:04 |
| gmann | +1 yeah, let's discuss those in leaderless project topic | 15:04 |
| gmann | #topic Gate health check | 15:04 |
| gmann | there is more traffic yesterday and took more time to merge patches but not worst. | 15:04 |
| gmann | any other news | 15:05 |
| dansmith | ugh, I meant to do some digging, | 15:05 |
| dansmith | but I was chasing down what seemed like a common failure in some patches related to volume resize (I think) | 15:05 |
| dansmith | and it seemed like maybe it was a problem with the worker instead of any of our stuff, | 15:05 |
| dansmith | but then I applied updates and restarted my system and lost some state (like a noob) | 15:06 |
| jungleboyj | :-( | 15:06 |
| gmann | oh | 15:06 |
| dansmith | that was the only thing I was chasing at the time.. seemed like I've also seen a bunch of blind rechecks lately, have others? | 15:06 |
| gmann | slaweq: you have the script for recheck for neutorn. right? | 15:07 |
| gmann | can we extend that for all project and we can see how much we are doing? | 15:07 |
| gmann | script to count the recheck | 15:07 |
| slaweq | gmann: I have script which can count number of rechecks in every project | 15:07 |
| dansmith | ah, that'd be interesting | 15:08 |
| gmann | yeah and will be good to check here weekly | 15:08 |
| slaweq | I can prepare such data for patches from all projects | 15:08 |
| gmann | +1 | 15:08 |
| jungleboyj | slaweq: That is interesting. | 15:08 |
| slaweq | sure, I will prepare it for next week | 15:08 |
| gmann | perfect, thanks. | 15:09 |
| dansmith | agree, especially in light of losing some capacity, we might need to lead a charge to get people to actually look for the reasons before they recheck | 15:09 |
| gmann | I remember neutron CI meeting discuss/monitor sich data in very nice way. | 15:09 |
| slaweq | dansmith: yeah, that's why I did it and we are checking it every week | 15:09 |
| dansmith | slaweq: ++ | 15:09 |
| slaweq | now it's good as we are below 1 recheck in averega | 15:09 |
| gmann | nice | 15:10 |
| slaweq | but we had weeks where we had e.g. 10 rechecks to get patch merge :) | 15:10 |
| slaweq | 10 in average | 15:10 |
| gmann | slaweq: let's add a etherpad where we can put weekly data there and check in meeting. | 15:10 |
| slaweq | gmann: sure, I will do that | 15:10 |
| gmann | thanks | 15:10 |
| gmann | for centos9-stream failure on detach. this can help but I have not debugged the failure on this yet #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/tempest/+/831608 | 15:11 |
| gmann | I thought of doing before rc-1 but could not finish. | 15:11 |
| gmann | anything else on gate things? | 15:12 |
| gmann | #topic Z cycle Leaderless projects | 15:13 |
| gmann | we are left with two project and slaweq got success to get the volunteer for trove | 15:13 |
| gmann | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/zed-leaderless | 15:13 |
| gmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2022-March/027654.html | 15:14 |
| gmann | wu.chunyang volunteer to maintain it as they are using it | 15:14 |
| gmann | checking their contribution in Trove or so | 15:16 |
| jungleboyj | ++ | 15:16 |
| gmann | I find these #link https://review.opendev.org/q/owner:wuchunyang%2540yovole.com+project:openstack/trove | 15:16 |
| slaweq | I looked here https://www.stackalytics.io/?release=all&user_id=wu.chunyang&metric=commits | 15:17 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:17 |
| gmann | I think we can go ahead and assign the PTL, any other opinion | 15:17 |
| slaweq | +1 | 15:17 |
| gmann | especially there is no maintainer in that project | 15:17 |
| gmann | if no objection here, I will propose the PTL assignment patch | 15:18 |
| jungleboyj | +1 | 15:18 |
| rosmaita | no objection | 15:18 |
| gmann | ok, I will propose patch after meeting | 15:19 |
| gmann | 1nd project Adjutant | 15:19 |
| gmann | Braden Albert asked to wait until March end #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2022-March/027626.html | 15:19 |
| gmann | which we can wait and we can check in PTG. based on situation that time we can take call. | 15:19 |
| gmann | that is all on leaderless projects, anything to discuss on this topic? | 15:20 |
| jungleboyj | Well, that isn't too bad. | 15:20 |
| gmann | yeah, more leaderless project this time but fastest to fill them. | 15:20 |
| jungleboyj | ++ Focus on the positive. | 15:21 |
| gmann | which indicates we need to adjust our election process or so. but anyways we will discuss it in PTG | 15:21 |
| gmann | #topic PTG Preparation | 15:22 |
| gmann | we selected the time slot of TC discussions #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2022-March/027584.html | 15:22 |
| gmann | Please plan accordingly. and topic wise schedule we will prepare later | 15:22 |
| gmann | keep adding the topics you would like to discuss this etherpad #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-zed-ptg | 15:23 |
| gmann | that is all for PTG for now, anything else? | 15:23 |
| gmann | and this etherpad for TC+PTL sessions https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-ptl-interaction-zed | 15:23 |
| gmann | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-ptl-interaction-zed | 15:23 |
| ade_lee_ | is there a specific time to give updates on community goals like fips? | 15:23 |
| ade_lee_ | or should I add to the above agenda? | 15:24 |
| gmann | ade_lee_: we have not prepared the exact topic wise schedule but please add your preference in etherpad and we can try for that L39 in #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-zed-ptg | 15:24 |
| gmann | arne_wiebalck: oh or you mean for today meeting? | 15:24 |
| gmann | ade_lee_: ^^ | 15:25 |
| ade_lee_ | ah gotcha -- I just saw that line | 15:25 |
| gmann | cool | 15:25 |
| gmann | ade_lee_: if time conflict you can add the details in etherpad also but I can try to schedule as per your availability | 15:26 |
| ade_lee_ | gmann, ok great thanks | 15:26 |
| gmann | and yes, if anyone has preference on any topic to avoid conflict with any specific time/day please mention that in etherpad | 15:26 |
| gmann | I do not promise to avoid 100% conflict but we can try :) | 15:27 |
| gmann | moving to next topic... | 15:27 |
| gmann | #topic Check on Yoga Tracker progress | 15:27 |
| gmann | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-yoga-tracker | 15:28 |
| gmann | let's go by one by one as we are very close to Yoga cycle end | 15:28 |
| gmann | 1. Technical Guidelines: dansmith | 15:28 |
| dansmith | yeah I suck | 15:29 |
| gmann | dansmith: I think you are already doing lot of things, but just to know any plan for unified limit like next cycle? | 15:29 |
| dansmith | yeah, nova merged theirs now, | 15:29 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:29 |
| dansmith | so we have two examples to go by | 15:29 |
| dansmith | I still want to do this, it was just always the easiest thing to push aside | 15:29 |
| gmann | sure, no worry. if you have time but having nova completed is good progress overall | 15:30 |
| dansmith | ack | 15:30 |
| gmann | 3. TAG framework removal proposal | 15:30 |
| gmann | for this few tags are pending specially release script patch and VMT one which needs to wait for OpenStack website to be updated by foundation | 15:31 |
| gmann | so this is good progress and can be completed based on these deps | 15:31 |
| gmann | 4. Improvement in project governance - diablo_rojo_phone | 15:32 |
| gmann | for this we discussed to have a 'Tech pre-review' process proposal | 15:32 |
| gmann | but I did see anything up yet | 15:32 |
| gmann | 5. Release name process change -belmiro | 15:33 |
| gmann | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/829563 | 15:33 |
| gmann | Belmiro proposal is in good shape and with more +1 there | 15:33 |
| gmann | and as discussed in last or this week, we will discuss the release name-removal things separately in PTG as it need lot of discussion and deps | 15:33 |
| gmann | jungleboyj: diablo_rojo_phone arne_wiebalck spotz knikolla ^^ if you would like to review it as I am planning to merge it early tomorrow (early in CST) | 15:34 |
| * jungleboyj just opened a tab for it. :-) | 15:35 | |
| gmann | if no strong objection from yoru review or here | 15:35 |
| gmann | 6. Community-wide goals: ricolin gmann | 15:35 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | I can review today | 15:35 |
| gmann | jungleboyj: diablo_rojo_phone thanks | 15:35 |
| gmann | we have done the community restructure but left with the checklist | 15:36 |
| gmann | I will try if I can push something up next week | 15:36 |
| gmann | 7. User Survey Feedback Analysis/Responses - jungleboyj | 15:36 |
| jungleboyj | I too suck. :-) | 15:36 |
| jungleboyj | I have started on that. Will have things ready for the PTG. | 15:36 |
| gmann | jungleboyj: perfect, thanks. and before PTG is good time | 15:37 |
| dansmith | jungleboyj: suck buddies? wait, that.. nevermind :) | 15:37 |
| * jungleboyj laughs | 15:37 | |
| gmann | anything else on Yoga tracker items progress? | 15:37 |
| jungleboyj | Well, that was something I never expected from dansmith . :-) | 15:37 |
| slaweq | dansmith: You made my day with "suck buddies" :D | 15:38 |
| dansmith | slaweq: yw :P | 15:38 |
| gmann | :P | 15:38 |
| gmann | #topic Adding FIPs gate jobs and direction on how to run them in optimize way w.r.t. infra resource shortage. | 15:38 |
| gmann | ade_lee_: can you please brief about what is your plan about adding FIPs job in gate ? | 15:39 |
| gmann | and then we can discuss what best we can do to utilize the infra resource in best way | 15:39 |
| gmann | I remember you were trying to add as experimental in Tempest gate | 15:39 |
| gmann | which is not merged yet | 15:40 |
| ade_lee_ | gmann, well - its been really project by porject at this point - and only in checks . | 15:40 |
| ade_lee_ | many projects have a fips gate | 15:40 |
| dansmith | I think the concern is more about us having to test it on centos, and that not going very well | 15:40 |
| ade_lee_ | and some (like cinder) are still working on getting gates in | 15:40 |
| dansmith | AFAICT, the centos jobs we've tried have been too unstable to keep voting | 15:41 |
| dansmith | so is there a plan to be able to test these on ubuntu at some point in the future? | 15:41 |
| gmann | so it has to be on centos and adding in project check pipeline as non voting? | 15:41 |
| ade_lee_ | understood, centos has been trying as of late | 15:41 |
| gmann | and is centos one passing and stable? | 15:41 |
| ade_lee_ | dansmith, I've contacted canonical about fips on ubuntu but there are issues | 15:41 |
| gmann | dansmith: if it is stable then we can add but again if stable which I doubt on any centos job | 15:42 |
| ade_lee_ | mainly because fips on ubuntu is a premium feautre -- ie. one that requires a subscription | 15:42 |
| dansmith | lol | 15:42 |
| gmann | :) | 15:42 |
| fungi | ubuntu doesn't provide fips support "for free" (it's a paid feature which requires obtaining and applying license keys) | 15:42 |
| ade_lee_ | if we figure a way around that we can switch to ubuntu | 15:42 |
| dansmith | maybe that's the problem with the centos jobs? we forgot to put quarters in the slot? | 15:42 |
| jungleboyj | Bwah ha ha! | 15:42 |
| ade_lee_ | dansmith, I've been trying to move the contos jobs to centos-9 which appears to be getting more stable | 15:43 |
| jungleboyj | Based on experience it would have to be a huge stack of quarters. | 15:43 |
| fungi | canonical seems like they might be willing to give us license keys, but we have no way to prevent people from accessing those in jobs | 15:43 |
| dansmith | really? that's surprising, but good if there's a horizon | 15:43 |
| dansmith | fungi: I would have thought the license would be for support and not "a license key to turn off a bunch of ciphers" | 15:43 |
| ade_lee_ | the latest problem there has been changes to openssl to disallow sha1 in signatures by default | 15:43 |
| ade_lee_ | and thats been causing all sorts of headaches, but we're finding them | 15:44 |
| gmann | but should we try them as periodic or experimental and on few projects and if they are stable then try to add in all other projects? | 15:44 |
| spotz_ | Is there anything the CentOS community can do to help? I’ve been promoting working with our neighbors | 15:44 |
| dansmith | spotz_: suck less? (/me continues today's theme) | 15:44 |
| fungi | dansmith: right, it's the customizations they're gating behind the license key, someone could certainly roll their own fips support for any distro if they have the time and interest | 15:44 |
| gmann | spotz: yeah, help in fixing the centos jobs, and for devstack support which is broken regularly and we do not have many centos people to help there | 15:44 |
| dansmith | spotz_: the problems seem to come from libvirt, qemu, and all over, so it's not really a single thing to fix AFAICT | 15:45 |
| clarkb | dansmith: to put it more diplomatically I would say putting mor eemphasis and reverting broken changes and/or fixing them. The whole ping sysctl perms thing was broken for like a month and was a trivial revert that could've been done instead | 15:45 |
| spotz_ | Ok | 15:45 |
| dansmith | clarkb: yeah I was just trying to say: it's not one bug we need fixed, it seems systemic | 15:45 |
| clarkb | they appear to be changing things aggressively via pulls from upstream rhel and when it breaks they don't fix centos they wait for rhel to fix | 15:45 |
| clarkb | dansmith: agreed | 15:45 |
| dansmith | which also makes me not really want to try to fix it and just work on being able to run it on something stable | 15:46 |
| clarkb | basically when thing sgo wrong they are not addressed in a timely manner directly in centos and instead deferred to rhel if I read between the lines in the bug tracker properly | 15:46 |
| clarkb | and that leads to long periods of broken in centos | 15:46 |
| fungi | we've added rocky linux very recently, which is a rhel clone (currently rhel 8 as there's still no rhel 9) | 15:46 |
| dansmith | clarkb: yeah and I kinda think that's the "new way" we should expect from here on out | 15:46 |
| spotz_ | That is something being worked on | 15:46 |
| slaweq | maybe stupid question but what about fedora? Would it be better than centos maybe? | 15:46 |
| gmann | not sure if that is tried for FIPs | 15:47 |
| fungi | slaweq: not for long-term testing since we can't keep running it for stable branches | 15:47 |
| clarkb | ya rocky seems like a good option to look at if stablitiy is the issue | 15:47 |
| slaweq | k | 15:47 |
| fungi | our stable support lifetime is several times that of fedora support for a given release | 15:47 |
| gmann | back to FIPs jobs running: ade_lee_ do you have any rough list that how many projects run FIPs jobs in check or gate pipeline? | 15:47 |
| ade_lee_ | counting ... | 15:48 |
| ade_lee_ | keystone, barbican, glance, nova, cinder (in progress), ceilometer, tripleo , manila , neutron | 15:48 |
| ade_lee_ | horizon (in progress) | 15:49 |
| * ade_lee_ getting my spreadsheet | 15:49 | |
| slaweq | just to be clear: neutron has those jobs in periodic, not check nor gate pipelines | 15:49 |
| gmann | octavia, designate also | 15:49 |
| gmann | and in tempest experimental but that is not merged yet | 15:50 |
| gmann | slaweq: +1 | 15:50 |
| gmann | ade_lee_: can we add them as perioidic for all those projects and collect more data on stability and ion next cycle or so where we select this goal then we start adding in each pipeline | 15:51 |
| ade_lee_ | I think thats it , but I may have missed one or tow | 15:51 |
| johnsom | Yeah, Octavia and Designate are both on plan for FIPs jobs. Octavia even has FIPs enabled in the amphora instances today. | 15:51 |
| ade_lee_ | gmann, we can -- seems reasonable until centos is more stable | 15:52 |
| gmann | especially when infra resource shortage coming soon.. | 15:52 |
| ade_lee_ | how often do periodic jobs run? | 15:52 |
| gmann | ade_lee_: yeah or until anyone gift us ubuntu preimum :) | 15:52 |
| gmann | ade_lee_: you can configure, like weekly or month | 15:52 |
| clarkb | currently daily | 15:52 |
| dansmith | what about debian? do they have a fips knob? | 15:53 |
| gmann | weekly also you can configure | 15:53 |
| slaweq | in neutron periodic those jobs are pretty stable: https://zuul.openstack.org/builds?job_name=neutron-ovs-tempest-fips&job_name=neutron-ovn-tempest-ovs-release-fips&project=openstack%2Fneutron&pipeline=periodic&skip=0 :) | 15:53 |
| gmann | ade_lee_: like this https://github.com/openstack/placement/blob/master/.zuul.yaml#L64 | 15:53 |
| ade_lee_ | ok - that seems like a reasonable compromise -- and yeah, some of the jobs are quite stable ^^ see neutron/ cilometer | 15:53 |
| slaweq | of course it's just few days as we run them like that but seems pretty ok IMHO | 15:53 |
| gmann | ok | 15:54 |
| ade_lee_ | and barbican/keystone | 15:54 |
| fungi | the crypto-policies package on debian has a fips-mode-setup tool | 15:54 |
| gmann | but whatever you like daily weekly or depends on projects and how stable they are | 15:54 |
| ade_lee_ | sure thats fair | 15:54 |
| ade_lee_ | is it possible to trigger a periodic job manually in a review? | 15:55 |
| fungi | getting "ubuntu premium" isn't so much the problem, as i mentioned, it's securing the key when run against arbitrary code which has root access to the nodes | 15:55 |
| slaweq | ade_lee_: I think You can add same job to periodic and experimental pipelines | 15:55 |
| gmann | ade_lee_: for that you can add in experimental queue also | 15:55 |
| fungi | ade_lee_: if you want to trigger a job manually you put it in experimental, yeah | 15:55 |
| fungi | you can have the job in both pipelines | 15:55 |
| gmann | slaweq: +1 | 15:55 |
| slaweq | and then trigger it in review with "check experimental" | 15:55 |
| ade_lee_ | ok cool - I can do that | 15:55 |
| fungi | you can't "trigger" the periodic pipeline, that's what makes it periodic | 15:56 |
| fungi | it's triggered by a timer | 15:56 |
| dansmith | fungi: uh I disagree. "wait" is an action :P | 15:56 |
| gmann | ok, let's convert the existing FIPs job to run periodic/experimental for all projects they have been added or going to be added | 15:56 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 15:56 |
| gmann | ade_lee_: ^^ ok for you | 15:56 |
| ade_lee_ | suuL: advance time | 15:56 |
| ade_lee_ | works for me | 15:56 |
| gmann | perfect, any objection from anyone on above proposal | 15:57 |
| dansmith | to recap, | 15:57 |
| dansmith | it's fips jobs go in experimental or periodic? | 15:57 |
| ade_lee_ | fyi, on the tripleo side of things, things are progressing enough, that we make fips testing the default | 15:57 |
| gmann | dansmith: yes | 15:57 |
| ade_lee_ | as we're testing on centos 9 in any case | 15:57 |
| dansmith | no objection from me :) | 15:57 |
| gmann | ade_lee_: ack. and in PTG we will check the goal status and see if we can run more or so or other distro FIPs nobs | 15:58 |
| ade_lee_ | and we can exampine data on stability at the ptg | 15:58 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:58 |
| gmann | cool, thanks ade_lee_ for joining and discussion | 15:58 |
| gmann | #topic Open Reviews | 15:58 |
| gmann | 2 min left | 15:58 |
| ade_lee_ | and I'lltry sync again with canonical | 15:58 |
| rosmaita | is there a way you can see all the fips jobs builds in zuul? | 15:58 |
| gmann | ade_lee_: +1 | 15:58 |
| rosmaita | i can see this one for glance: https://zuul.openstack.org/builds?job_name=glance-multistore-cinder-import-fips&skip=0 | 15:59 |
| rosmaita | but if i wanted to look at all of them, is there a way to do that | 15:59 |
| fungi | if they have known names, you can add them all to a query yes | 15:59 |
| ade_lee_ | ack -- I was wondering about that too | 15:59 |
| fungi | i don't think you can regex that unfortunately | 15:59 |
| fungi | or glob | 15:59 |
| *** pojadhav is now known as pojadhav|dinner | 16:00 | |
| gmann | yeah by name, it does not work as regex https://zuul.openstack.org/builds?job_name=*fips&skip=0 | 16:00 |
| fungi | but if someone makes a list of them, we could make a query and link it somewhere | 16:00 |
| gmann | anyway we are out of time | 16:00 |
| rosmaita | fungi: ty | 16:00 |
| ade_lee_ | fungi, I can find the names and provide to you to help make a query? | 16:00 |
| gmann | we have discussed about open reivews, please check those | 16:00 |
| gmann | that is all for today meeting, anything else? | 16:00 |
| gmann | ok, thanks for joining everyone | 16:01 |
| gmann | #endmeeting | 16:01 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Thu Mar 10 16:01:27 2022 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:01 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2022/tc.2022-03-10-15.00.html | 16:01 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2022/tc.2022-03-10-15.00.txt | 16:01 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2022/tc.2022-03-10-15.00.log.html | 16:01 |
| slaweq | thx | 16:01 |
| slaweq | have a great rest of the day @all :) | 16:01 |
| rosmaita | you too | 16:01 |
| fungi | ade_lee_: sure, you can also just assemble the query on the builds page, or look at how it structures the url and do a quick bit of loop script to make it | 16:02 |
| jungleboyj | Thanks! | 16:03 |
| ade_lee_ | fungi, ok - I'll play around with it | 16:03 |
| rosmaita | gmann: i have a question about the status of translation in openstack ... for example, the french and italian .po files were deleted from cinder recently | 16:04 |
| rosmaita | i am wondering if i missed some discussion on the ML, or whether we should talk about this at the PTG | 16:05 |
| gmann | rosmaita: ok, ianychoi[m] is and i think only maintainer for those | 16:05 |
| clarkb | rosmaita: I believe there were threshold rules in place as a decision was made that slightly translated projects were worse than just the default of english | 16:05 |
| clarkb | if it was the bot that removed the files that is likely why | 16:05 |
| rosmaita | clarkb: i think that's what happened | 16:05 |
| gmann | rosmaita: there were some discussion last month on overall translation status | 16:05 |
| clarkb | the translation tooling definitely needs some help | 16:06 |
| clarkb | zanata isn't really something we can keep relying on | 16:06 |
| gmann | this one http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2021-December/026244.html | 16:06 |
| rosmaita | gmann: ty | 16:06 |
| clarkb | but ya the threshold rules (I think 70% maybe?) are likely why it was removed if by the bot | 16:06 |
| gmann | rosmaita: is anyone complained about removal or you noticed it? | 16:07 |
| rosmaita | it came up in a discussion about logging messages vs. exception messages that end-users might see | 16:07 |
| rosmaita | no one complained | 16:07 |
| rosmaita | but everyone thought it was weird that some major languages were removed | 16:08 |
| dansmith | meh french? never heard of it. | 16:08 |
| clarkb | rosmaita: keep in mind that its the churn to the source strings that causes that ultimately | 16:08 |
| rosmaita | i guess the threshold is per-project? so we might have no french in cinder, but have frence in glance? | 16:08 |
| clarkb | rosmaita: like ya it was removed, but it was removed because your strings have updated and there isn't anyone to translate them (or they aren't translating them quickly enough to keep up) | 16:09 |
| clarkb | yes per project | 16:09 |
| rosmaita | ok, so we could address this ourselves by recruiting some appropriate people | 16:09 |
| jungleboyj | rosmaita: So, we just need to get ttx to help out then. ;-) | 16:10 |
| clarkb | rosmaita: and/or reduce string churn | 16:10 |
| clarkb | things were translated until you changed the source | 16:10 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 16:10 |
| gmann | we are struggling on more translator maintainer in i18 SIG and as per last check its ianychoi[m] continue to help but it is great if people need it can come and help | 16:10 |
| rosmaita | well, it's hard to prevent churn when people insist on correcting typos! | 16:11 |
| rosmaita | but maybe if we explain correcting english means no more french or italian, people will let those slide | 16:11 |
| gmann | rosmaita and i agree to discuss and find some solution if we can in PTG | 16:12 |
| gmann | rosmaita: can you please add it etherpad and we will try to ring ianychoi[m] also there | 16:12 |
| rosmaita | sure, will do | 16:13 |
| gmann | thanks | 16:13 |
| jungleboyj | rosmaita: Never! Typos must go! | 16:13 |
| *** gmann is now known as gmann_afk | 16:13 | |
| rosmaita | clarkb: your remark about zanata ... what's the problem with it? | 16:13 |
| clarkb | rosmaita: red hat killed it years ago and is no longer maintained | 16:13 |
| clarkb | Ideally someone would find time to plan and perform a migration to another tool | 16:14 |
| rosmaita | that was my next question! | 16:14 |
| clarkb | it is unfortunate because zanata worked really well and I think the translators enjoyed using it too | 16:14 |
| fungi | rosmaita: the last time we looked into options, weblate looked promising, and they have a hosted service we could rely on (like back when we used transifex) so opendev wouldn't have to run the service for it | 16:15 |
| rosmaita | hmmm ... zanata says there are 136394.92 hours remaining, i guess of stuff to be translated | 16:16 |
| rosmaita | that's kind of a lot | 16:16 |
| fungi | openstack is kind of a big project | 16:16 |
| rosmaita | and apparently a very verbose one | 16:17 |
| spotz_ | Hey all, if we can get a list of the centOS issues I’ll get a list of folks we can work with | 16:18 |
| fungi | spotz_: the anecdotes i heard seemed like they could be kernel layer or unfortunate hypervisor level interactions leading to things just dying in hard to diagnose ways, but hopefully someone has more details | 16:19 |
| clarkb | spotz_: the one I was aawre of was they updated ping to no longer be setuid and instead rely on a special sysctl setting to allow non root to ping. Except that sysctl (part of systemd) didn't get updated as part of that change (use case for zuul and depends-on). They then updated sysctl but found something about that update was broken. Eventually I believed this was fixed, but | 16:19 |
| clarkb | IMO the immediate reaction should've been to just revert the setuid removal. Then redeploy properly. | 16:19 |
| clarkb | The major issue being everything seeemed to flow through rhel, but since rhel isn't released continuously like centos they weren't catching the issues when landing stuff to rhel. Instead they were caught one at a time in centos as they pulled from rhel and it led to very long period of time before it was actually fixed | 16:20 |
| fungi | pulling from future-rhel-9 into centos stream 9 i guess? | 16:21 |
| clarkb | fungi: this was on stream-8 | 16:21 |
| clarkb | but ya future rhel 8 into stream-8 | 16:21 |
| fungi | oh, wow. why would they make that change in rhel 8? that itself is kinda insane | 16:21 |
| clarkb | rather than fixing stream-8 directly and/or reverting | 16:21 |
| fungi | "ping is no longer setuid" seems like the sort of thing you wouldn't backport to an already released major rhel version | 16:22 |
| spotz_ | It’s supposed to be changing with 9 so it’s more cent then rhel for most things. Ok 8 hasn’t moved to that flow yet so not surprised there | 16:23 |
| clarkb | ya if I could give any advice it would be to encourage reverts for problems that can be reverted then take another pass at it with more planning | 16:24 |
| clarkb | if you are going to continuously release your software this seems imperative | 16:24 |
| clarkb | then if I thought I'd get away with a sales pitch using a tool that enforced ordering of dependencies in changes (like zuul) would go a long way to avoiding these problems in a continuously released distribution | 16:25 |
| fungi | right, if centos stream is intended to be used in production, then taking care to provide a production level experience to its users (like they had in pre-stream) | 16:25 |
| clarkb | ultimately the issue was that the ping update depended on a systemd (sysctl) update. One landed before the other | 16:25 |
| spotz_ | Ok screenshotted this to del with next week when back at work. But hopefully we’re not seeing that order of things with 9:as it’s supposed to have a better workflow | 16:25 |
| fungi | and yes, zuul is great for testing interdependencies and enforcing correct ordering of changes | 16:27 |
| clarkb | Another thing I noticed whe nthe ping thing happened is that the centos imports from rhel lose almost all context from upstream | 16:27 |
| clarkb | this might be a feature, I'm not sure. But it makes it really difficult to see what is changing without reding the actual diffs | 16:28 |
| *** gmann_afk is now known as gmann | 16:29 | |
| opendevreview | Ghanshyam proposed openstack/governance master: Appoint Wu Chunyang as Trove PTL https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/833152 | 17:27 |
| gmann | wuchunyang ^^ need your +1 as ack. | 17:27 |
| *** pojadhav|dinner is now known as pojadhav | 17:48 | |
| opendevreview | Slawek Kaplonski proposed openstack/governance master: Add slaweq nomination as vice-chair https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/833171 | 20:05 |
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