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| spotz | gmann just for clarification - the code for theHealth dashboard which is going to be merged is for tempest test failures, not the elastic recheck part. that's not actually part of the ode they worked on | 14:41 |
|---|---|---|
| spotz | And tripleo jobs vs devstack | 14:42 |
| gmann | spotz: no, health dashboard the one for tempest tests are no more (service is stopped as well repo is retired https://github.com/openstack-archive/openstack-health) | 14:45 |
| gmann | spotz: things needs to merge for e-r is these two 1. https://opendev.org/opendev/elastic-recheck 2. https://opendev.org/opendev/elastic-recheck/src/branch/rdo | 14:46 |
| spotz | Ok we need to meet with rlandy and her team I think and figure out what they've done and if it's really what we need | 14:46 |
| gmann | as discussed in TC last meeting, ananya understood the things and mentioned to proceed so may be good to syncup with her | 14:47 |
| spotz | She's part of the thread I'm on:) | 14:48 |
| gmann | spotz: and dpawlik also? | 14:48 |
| spotz | Actually he's not I'll ad him in | 14:49 |
| frenzy_friday | gmann, Hey, I will try to prepare a patch to merge rdo with master. But we made some changes so that elastic recheck is focused on tripleo jobs whereas the original elastic recheck on master wasfocused on devstack jobs. Whet should we do with this change? Can we keep ER tripleo focused on master branch? | 14:49 |
| gmann | yeah, dpawlik can syncup on this and the plan etc | 14:50 |
| spotz | Added:) | 14:50 |
| gmann | thanks | 14:50 |
| spotz | ^ | 14:50 |
| frenzy_friday | And we had worked only on Elastic recheck till now, we did not touch the Openstack health (the dashboard had two repos which goes into a single dashboard) | 14:51 |
| gmann | frenzy_friday: yes, that is completely fine to keep triploe focused things. how you do in separate folder or so that you and dpawlik can discuss. | 14:52 |
| frenzy_friday | openstack health is the part which tracks tempest tests | 14:52 |
| gmann | frenzy_friday: spotz dpawlik we will also discussed this topic in TC meeting today here starting in an 7 min from now | 14:53 |
| fungi | yeah, openstack-health relied on systems which collected subunit streams from jobs and loaded those into a rdbms. it was entirely unrelated to the job log indexing system | 14:53 |
| gmann | frenzy_friday: yeah, openstack-health is gone and retired. | 14:53 |
| frenzy_friday | gmann, ack. So we would focus on the ER part only. The next challenge would be hosting and maintaining (scaling when needed, upgrading etc) the ER and the logstash | 14:55 |
| gmann | frenzy_friday: yes, let's discuss it in TC meeting. I think for hosting part, dpawlik has some ideas | 14:56 |
| fungi | the logstash/elasticsearch (now opensearch) backend is already there | 14:57 |
| dpawlik | frenzy_friday, gmann: hey, yeah. We can add the e-r on the logscraper host and see how it will be running there | 14:57 |
| spotz | I let rlandy know we'd discuss it in the meeting if she wanted to join | 14:58 |
| gmann | spotz: +1 | 14:58 |
| spotz | She's in a meeting | 14:59 |
| frenzy_friday | rlandy, me and dasm have a sprint planning meeting right now :/ | 14:59 |
| fungi | and yeah, the suggestion was elastic-recheck running somewhere connecting to the existing opensearch backend at https://governance.openstack.org/sigs/tact-sig.html#opensearch | 14:59 |
| spotz | That meeting:) | 15:00 |
| gmann | #startmeeting tc | 15:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Thu May 12 15:00:16 2022 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 15:00 |
| gmann | #topic Roll call | 15:00 |
| spotz | Ha I couln't remember Darius's nick it'd been so long! | 15:00 |
| dansmith | o/ | 15:00 |
| spotz | o/ | 15:00 |
| gmann | tc-members meeting time | 15:00 |
| aprice | o/ | 15:00 |
| gmann | o/ | 15:00 |
| arne_wiebalck | o/ | 15:00 |
| dasm | o/ | 15:00 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 15:00 |
| frenzy_friday | o/ | 15:00 |
| dmendiza[m] | 🙋♂️ | 15:01 |
| rosmaita | o/ | 15:01 |
| gmann | knikolla: diablo_rojo_phone slaweq ping | 15:02 |
| slaweq | o/ | 15:02 |
| slaweq | sorry for being late | 15:02 |
| knikolla | o/ | 15:02 |
| rosmaita | nobody's late yet | 15:02 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:02 |
| slaweq | :) | 15:02 |
| gmann | as we need quorum for few items and we are 8 member present out of 9. +1 | 15:02 |
| gmann | let's start | 15:03 |
| gmann | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee#Agenda_Suggestions | 15:03 |
| gmann | today agenda ^^ | 15:03 |
| dpawlik | o/ | 15:03 |
| gmann | #topic Follow up on past action items | 15:03 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | O/ | 15:03 |
| gmann | none from last meeting | 15:03 |
| gmann | #topic Gate health check | 15:03 |
| gmann | any news on gate? | 15:03 |
| dansmith | so, I've been working on some perf gathering, which is related | 15:04 |
| dansmith | and I noticed an issue, which I raised with dmendiza[m] related to keystone | 15:04 |
| gmann | devstack-plugin-ceph-tempest-py3 seems failing consistently but victoria is debugging that, I will also check after meeting or so | 15:04 |
| dansmith | https://zuul.opendev.org/t/openstack/build/ca64a1330ad3445abcbefb280ca1d563/log/controller/logs/devstacklog.txt#22607 | 15:04 |
| dpawlik | dansmith: did you fix some issues related to wrong service name? | 15:04 |
| dansmith | (scroll down to that line) and keystone is doing 80k select requests against its DB by the end of just a devstack run | 15:05 |
| dansmith | dpawlik: the neutron issue you mean? | 15:05 |
| gmann | I think yes, it was v2.0 instead of network | 15:05 |
| rosmaita | i'm seeing a lot of failures on cinder-plugin-ceph-tempest | 15:05 |
| slaweq | Neutron gate is currently broken with new neutron-lib release, ralonsoh is working on fix for it (fullstack job is red) | 15:05 |
| dpawlik | not onlt neutron was affected - Aodh too | 15:06 |
| gmann | dpawlik: ah right | 15:06 |
| gmann | let's go one by one. perf thing first | 15:07 |
| gmann | dansmith: 80k is valid right as devstack does a lot of operation for account setup or so or they seems suspicious ? | 15:07 |
| dpawlik | dansmith: let me know when the performance.json will be ok. I will do next step with logsender and add the performance.json fields into the docs | 15:07 |
| dansmith | gmann: 80k is wayyyy too many for the number of accounts we create, IMHO | 15:07 |
| dpawlik | by saying docs, I mean elasticsearch doc* | 15:07 |
| dansmith | dpawlik: ack, waiting for a couple more patches to merge | 15:07 |
| gmann | dansmith: and that is before tempest run right | 15:08 |
| dansmith | gmann: yeah | 15:08 |
| gmann | because tempest create project/users/assisgn role for every test run | 15:08 |
| gmann | humm | 15:08 |
| dansmith | anyway, hoping to get a read from the keystone people at some point about that | 15:09 |
| gmann | +1 | 15:09 |
| dansmith | either "this is broken" or "this is so high because $reason" | 15:10 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:10 |
| gmann | anything else on perf things? patches are up for review #link https://review.opendev.org/q/topic:db-stats | 15:10 |
| gmann | slaweq: thanks for update on neutron-lib issue | 15:11 |
| gmann | rosmaita: is cinder-plugin-ceph-tempest failure related to devstack-plugin-ceph-tempest-py3 failure? | 15:11 |
| rosmaita | don't know | 15:11 |
| gmann | ok, let's discuss it in qa channel anyways | 15:12 |
| rosmaita | yeah, makes sense | 15:12 |
| gmann | anything else on gate things? | 15:12 |
| fungi | recently we've seen a few failures where test nodes can't do dns lookups. it seems like it may just be centos-based jobs and we've got a logging blind-spot for the resolver daemon on those platforms, but there are changes in progress to fix the log collection so we'll hopefully have a better idea of what's going wrong | 15:12 |
| gmann | ack, thanks | 15:12 |
| gmann | #topic Join leadership meeting with Board of Directors | 15:13 |
| gmann | as you saw in email, I have prepared a rough agenda for the meeting, #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-board-meeting-2022 | 15:13 |
| gmann | tc-members: please check this ^^ and add/comment before today EOD(CST) | 15:14 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | Looks like a good agenda to me. | 15:14 |
| jungleboyj | ++ | 15:14 |
| aprice | also, if you are planning to attend the board meeting in person, please add your name and email address here: https://openinfrafoundation.formstack.com/forms/openinfra_summit_berlin_board_meeting_rsvp | 15:14 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | The cross community stuff is just kubernetes? Or am I missing something? | 15:14 |
| aprice | This will be required to access the meeting room | 15:14 |
| rosmaita | gmann: agenda looks good, what kind of comments do you want? | 15:15 |
| gmann | diablo_rojo_phone: there is more especially on NVF side too | 15:15 |
| gmann | aprice: +1, thanks | 15:15 |
| arne_wiebalck | gmann would you like tc members at the summit to attend? | 15:15 |
| spotz | *faints* aprice is back on IRC!:) | 15:15 |
| aprice | hahah I am :) | 15:15 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 15:15 |
| * jungleboyj usually has to go ask someone to get her on IRC. :-) | 15:16 | |
| gmann | rosmaita: if anything else you think we should and can be beneficial to board? | 15:16 |
| rosmaita | ok | 15:16 |
| spotz | Just to be clear this is the meeting TheJulia has been emailing about not part of the in-person board meeting | 15:16 |
| gmann | arne_wiebalck: no that is individual choice. this meeting can eb virtual I think zoom as discussed in board meeting | 15:16 |
| arne_wiebalck | spotz: gmann: oh, ok | 15:17 |
| gmann | anyways, we will get the meeting details soon | 15:18 |
| spotz | So agenda = thejulia Zoom invite to sit in the board meeting = aprice | 15:18 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:18 |
| gmann | moving next | 15:18 |
| gmann | #topic New ELK service dashboard: e-r service | 15:18 |
| gmann | frenzy_friday: dasm : I think most part if clear now on this | 15:19 |
| dpawlik | There was an issue that comes few times last week that Opensearch cluster does not have enough space. It was little bit odd, but it seems that few days there was pushed a lot of messages there | 15:19 |
| dpawlik | I'm monitoring that situation | 15:19 |
| gmann | dpawlik: ok, thanks | 15:19 |
| fungi | the volume of logs generated fluctuates wildly depending on what's going on the openstack development | 15:20 |
| clarkb | we found 7 days to be stable with 6TB of storage for 5TB effective with one replica on the old system | 15:20 |
| frenzy_friday | gmann, we will prepare the code so that it can be merged to master. It will still be tripleo focused but we might clean up some stuff | 15:20 |
| fungi | sometimes some projects/jobs end up with failure modes where massive log streams get generated. other times it's just that somebody is repeatedly rebasing a 50-change stack for a project which runs lots of jobs | 15:21 |
| gmann | frenzy_friday: and keeping master one also I mean openstack based queries etc? | 15:21 |
| dasm | gmann++n | 15:21 |
| gmann | ok | 15:21 |
| fungi | there's also no reason the e-r being run for the openstack community can't evaluate both tripleo and devstack job logs | 15:22 |
| frenzy_friday | gmann, we have decoupled the queries from ER repo: https://opendev.org/openstack/tripleo-ci-health-queries The syntax of the queries have also changed | 15:22 |
| dasm | do we have any ETA for bringing it up? or is it: when it's done, it's done? | 15:22 |
| dpawlik | clarkb, fungi: ack. If situation will be too much to handle, I will cut off some part of logs that are pushed temporary. | 15:22 |
| gmann | frenzy_friday: yeah, that is why we can keep them in separate folder or so in master branch supporitng both syntex | 15:23 |
| dpawlik | sometimes logs can have over 200MB.... | 15:23 |
| gmann | dasm: I think no ETA planned yet but as we are doing we should just get it done in this flow :) | 15:23 |
| dasm | gmann: ack | 15:24 |
| gmann | frenzy_friday: dasm and e-r we can discuss in separate call also if need or any query on merging. dpawlik will be here and on #openstack-infra for discussion. | 15:24 |
| * dasm is on #openstack-infra too -- just in case | 15:24 | |
| clarkb | dpawlik: the old system also filtered out all debug logs | 15:24 |
| gmann | cool thanks frenzy_friday dasm for joining and helping on this. really appreciate that | 15:24 |
| dpawlik | feel free to catch me there ;) | 15:24 |
| clarkb | dpawlik: for that reason | 15:25 |
| gmann | +1 | 15:25 |
| frenzy_friday | gmann, ack, that will be good. Once we have the code cleaned up a bit we can discuss if that can be merged to master. dasm what do you think? | 15:25 |
| dpawlik | clarkb: ack | 15:25 |
| * dasm is interested in bringing that up again. if infra allows for that | 15:25 | |
| dpawlik | what would be the subdomain name for it? | 15:25 |
| dasm | frenzy_friday: yes, let's start with making it used by both: rdo and master. | 15:25 |
| gmann | +1 | 15:26 |
| gmann | moving next (two bug topic coming next) | 15:26 |
| gmann | #topic 'tick', 'tock' release cadence | 15:26 |
| gmann | 1. Legal checks on using 'tick', 'tock' | 15:26 |
| gmann | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/840354 | 15:27 |
| gmann | as we discussed in last meeting, tick-tock naming is not so clear if that pass legal or how to use them to pass legal so we decided to go with other name | 15:27 |
| gmann | current proposal are 1. SLU (Skip level upgradable) 2. SLURP (Skip level upgrade release process) | 15:28 |
| gmann | before we start on these two, any other suggestion from anyone? | 15:28 |
| jungleboyj | Haven't come up with anything better. | 15:28 |
| gmann | we need to decide the name today as none of the name is perfect and can satisfy all the criteria so let's just complete this and focus on actual work :) | 15:29 |
| spotz | Me neither | 15:29 |
| rosmaita | good idea | 15:29 |
| jungleboyj | ++ | 15:29 |
| gmann | ok, then let's start voting on these two only and we will pick the one with majority vote | 15:30 |
| dansmith | ++ | 15:30 |
| gmann | #startvote new release cadence name ? SLU, SLURP | 15:30 |
| opendevmeet | Begin voting on: new release cadence name ? Valid vote options are SLU, SLURP. | 15:30 |
| opendevmeet | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 15:30 |
| gmann | #vote SLURP | 15:30 |
| spotz | #vote SLU | 15:30 |
| arne_wiebalck | #vote SLU | 15:30 |
| rosmaita | #vote SLURP | 15:30 |
| slaweq | #vote SLURP | 15:30 |
| dansmith | #vote SLURP | 15:30 |
| knikolla | #vote SLU | 15:30 |
| spotz | jungleboyj: vote:) | 15:31 |
| jungleboyj | #vote SLU | 15:31 |
| jungleboyj | :-) I was thinking. | 15:31 |
| spotz | diablo_rojo_phone: you're the tie breaker | 15:31 |
| rosmaita | slurp ... slurp ... slurp | 15:31 |
| fungi | (no pressure) | 15:31 |
| slaweq | :) | 15:32 |
| spotz | hehe | 15:32 |
| dpawlik | if you choose slurp... | 15:32 |
| * jungleboyj plays the Jeopardy theme | 15:32 | |
| gmann | diablo_rojo_phone: waiting for your vote | 15:32 |
| gmann | ? | 15:34 |
| gmann | I think she is not online here or may be in another place? | 15:34 |
| ttx | she is definitely traveling right now, but was around earlier... | 15:34 |
| spotz | aprice: Can you ping her? | 15:34 |
| ttx | i did | 15:35 |
| gmann | yeah, she messaged here just few min ago | 15:35 |
| arne_wiebalck | the tension is unbearable! :-D | 15:35 |
| spotz | heheh | 15:35 |
| dpawlik | maybe someone want to change own vote, so situation will be more clear | 15:35 |
| ttx | haha lol | 15:35 |
| spotz | SLU!!!!!! | 15:35 |
| gmann | yeah, anyone want to change and we will go with 8 vote | 15:35 |
| ttx | (narrator) each camp stayed on their position | 15:36 |
| gmann | anyone want to change to SLURP :P | 15:36 |
| rosmaita | i will say something in favor of SLURP ... maybe dansmith was already thinking this, but there's a concept of 'slurping' a file (that is, pull the whole thing into memory before processing it, instead of processing it by chunks), and that's sort of what we're doing here ... instead of upgrading as releases become available, you're waiting to have the whole thing before you upgrade | 15:36 |
| gmann | +1 | 15:36 |
| dansmith | rosmaita: yes, I said that and I agree, it has a nice connotation, IMHO | 15:36 |
| spotz | It just SOUNDS bad:( | 15:36 |
| ttx | If SLURP is skip-level upgrade release process... the skip-level upgrade release (every two releases) is called SLUR? | 15:37 |
| spotz | Oh that's worse ttx | 15:37 |
| jungleboyj | Oh boy ... | 15:37 |
| gmann | :) so SLURP is better see | 15:37 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | Catching back up sorry! | 15:37 |
| dansmith | there are a number of other things that can come after SLU that are more bad than RP :) | 15:37 |
| arne_wiebalck | gmann: better than SLUR, but worse that SLU | 15:37 |
| spotz | dansmith: hehe | 15:37 |
| dansmith | diablo_rojo_phone: just #vote SLURP and we're done :P | 15:38 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | #vote SLURP | 15:38 |
| gmann | #endvote | 15:38 |
| opendevmeet | Voted on "new release cadence name ?" Results are | 15:38 |
| opendevmeet | SLURP (5): slaweq, rosmaita, dansmith, diablo_rojo_phone, gmann | 15:38 |
| opendevmeet | SLU (4): knikolla, arne_wiebalck, jungleboyj, spotz | 15:38 |
| dansmith | YASS | 15:38 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 15:38 |
| gmann | ok so let's go with the SLURP | 15:38 |
| ttx | witness tampering! | 15:38 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | Only cause I worry SLU is also trademarked because of all the universities. | 15:38 |
| * dasm can't vote, but maybe SKIP? Skip K(c)urrent Integration Process? ^^ | 15:38 | |
| spotz | ohhh skip! | 15:39 |
| dansmith | diablo_rojo_phone: https://www.slu.edu/ | 15:39 |
| gmann | SKIP also trademark 'SKIP the dishes' | 15:39 |
| gmann | anyways we are done. I will update the patch | 15:39 |
| ttx | while no one took slurp.com, for some reason... | 15:39 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | dansmith: exactly | 15:39 |
| gmann | so we will name/designate 1 year release upgradable to SLURP and other one as no name/designate right? | 15:40 |
| rosmaita | that was my understanding | 15:41 |
| dansmith | yup | 15:41 |
| gmann | cool. just to make sure we all are on same page. | 15:41 |
| gmann | 2. release notes discussion | 15:41 |
| jungleboyj | Yeah, mine as well. | 15:41 |
| gmann | rosmaita: go ahead | 15:41 |
| rosmaita | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/cinder/+/840996 | 15:41 |
| rosmaita | i slapped up some samples to see what the proposals we've been discussing would look like | 15:42 |
| rosmaita | this is better, in html | 15:42 |
| rosmaita | https://5ef6aafd25cfae8cca59-26a37c9db08d9ed7f07a8ba593bf7773.ssl.cf5.rackcdn.com/840996/1/check/build-openstack-releasenotes/f9875aa/docs/index.html | 15:42 |
| rosmaita | i think the simple one is the best | 15:43 |
| rosmaita | mainly because trying to combine them is a PITA (for me, anyway) | 15:43 |
| dansmith | simple is the "just link" one? | 15:43 |
| rosmaita | yes | 15:43 |
| rosmaita | the link is added to the preface | 15:43 |
| dansmith | I left some comments in there | 15:44 |
| rosmaita | but i did the tick + tock just to see whether the release notes would be overwhelming or not | 15:44 |
| dansmith | I think manual had too much stuff brought across, which maybe is part of the PITA bits, but I definitely sympathize | 15:44 |
| gmann | rosmaita: what is difference frm tick-tock and manual? | 15:45 |
| dansmith | can we say "go with the simple approach, but if there's anything really critical for upgrade, you might want to add it in" ? | 15:45 |
| gmann | yeah, say 'cinder v1 gone' can be added in both | 15:45 |
| rosmaita | gmann: see the comment at the top of https://5ef6aafd25cfae8cca59-26a37c9db08d9ed7f07a8ba593bf7773.ssl.cf5.rackcdn.com/840996/1/check/build-openstack-releasenotes/f9875aa/docs/tick2-manual.html | 15:45 |
| gmann | rosmaita: i see | 15:45 |
| slaweq | so simple + manual in case of some really critical stuff, right? | 15:46 |
| gmann | yeah, that sounds good | 15:46 |
| dansmith | slaweq: IMHO, yeah | 15:46 |
| slaweq | I like that idea | 15:46 |
| gmann | ok, any objection on this approach ? | 15:47 |
| rosmaita | works for me ... all you need to do is add the link to the prelude of the SLURP notes | 15:47 |
| rosmaita | key thing is it needs to be in a standard location | 15:48 |
| gmann | seems none, let's document it and there we can discuss at the top or where | 15:48 |
| gmann | rosmaita: sure. | 15:48 |
| rosmaita | ok | 15:48 |
| jungleboyj | ++ | 15:49 |
| gmann | rosmaita: thanks for the possible approaches on that. | 15:49 |
| gmann | moving to next topic even we have less time for that but we will see how it goes | 15:49 |
| spotz | ++ | 15:49 |
| gmann | #topic OpenStack release naming after Zed | 15:49 |
| gmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2022-April/028354.html | 15:49 |
| aprice | i added this as a follow up to the ML thread about how the foundation can help take this on | 15:49 |
| gmann | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/839897 | 15:49 |
| slaweq | there's a lot of push back on dropping names in the review | 15:49 |
| gmann | yeah, I think everyone know the context of this | 15:49 |
| aprice | I'd also like to push back, but think that the Foundation can take the naming burden off the TC | 15:50 |
| gmann | aprice: what is foundation proposal ? | 15:50 |
| aprice | the proposal would be for the Foundation to couple the release naming process with the legal checks we are already doing | 15:50 |
| aprice | we can put together a framework on continuing to get interaction from the community as i know this is important for folks to help decide the name | 15:50 |
| gmann | aprice: if we go with the same process I am not sure how it solve the problem | 15:50 |
| dansmith | you had me at "take the burden off the TC" | 15:50 |
| rosmaita | :) | 15:50 |
| dansmith | after that I don't care about anything else | 15:50 |
| gmann | issue is not who is doing issue is process | 15:51 |
| aprice | well i think that the sensitivity piece is also something that we can take on as part of the process. | 15:51 |
| jungleboyj | aprice: ++ That would be good. | 15:51 |
| aprice | i think that we can do our best to ensure that the names are culturally appropriate, but I think that it would be a big loss to drop the process entirely | 15:51 |
| spotz | ++ aprice | 15:52 |
| jungleboyj | Agreed. | 15:52 |
| gmann | aprice: because if community object on the selected name by same process but selected by foundation then how we handle that? | 15:52 |
| aprice | we have ambassadors worldwide that we can work with to collect feedback from different geos | 15:52 |
| gmann | aprice: we did that in last two cycle and ask in community and objection comes after selection only | 15:52 |
| rosmaita | gmann: but the key thing is that it won't be the TC's problem | 15:53 |
| gmann | I think ambassadors things are slate and no more active but I might be wrong | 15:53 |
| aprice | i think that as long as we give folks the opportunity to voice concern (and a clear timeframe to do so), that should sufficient imo | 15:53 |
| dansmith | right | 15:53 |
| ttx | gmann: arguably people don;t even know the name is being selected in the current process | 15:53 |
| aprice | it's how we do other processes like venue selections and things like that. | 15:53 |
| gmann | rosmaita: yeah so we are shifting problem from TC to foundation? | 15:53 |
| dansmith | I'm more than okay with people being offended, if the target is the foundation and not us :) | 15:53 |
| rosmaita | gmann: yep | 15:53 |
| dansmith | gmann: yes | 15:53 |
| ttx | so they discovet teh choice late and complain | 15:53 |
| slaweq | gmann: I think it's because if we ask "community" then nobody really cares, and if foundation will ask some people personally, it may be different | 15:53 |
| aprice | i think that it is near impossible to appease everyone in the community on the finalized name, but what we can do is provide clear ways for them to voice concerns before selection to be taken into account | 15:54 |
| jungleboyj | I feel that the foundation leading the effort and the community helping is a good approach. | 15:54 |
| rosmaita | we can at least give it a try | 15:54 |
| slaweq | rosmaita++ | 15:54 |
| aprice | neither the community nor the tc will be cut out of the process. id like to just help take off all of the heat from you all | 15:54 |
| spotz | I think it's a good plan and the foundation can work closely with legal | 15:55 |
| gmann | I have no objection to that but I am not seeing 'current problem solution proposal' here instead just give it to foundation and we will see | 15:55 |
| jungleboyj | And the Foundation seems more appropriately powered to handle the situations. | 15:55 |
| dansmith | gmann: it will help the foundation understand why it's not worth the trouble | 15:55 |
| jungleboyj | I am good with trying this. | 15:55 |
| rosmaita | gmann: your analysis of the situation is correct | 15:55 |
| fungi | some people also object to decisions like dropping support for api extensions, i think the difference is that the tc is more comfortable defending technical choices which some people object to than defending social choices which some people object to | 15:55 |
| rosmaita | somehow ubuntu seems to make this work ... or have any of their release names been controversial? | 15:56 |
| gmann | if foundation comes with 'solution' and how it can be solved the it sounds good but with the current process but trying in foundation than TC does not seems convincing to me | 15:56 |
| aprice | well i wanted to get tc buy-in before putting together a full process and proposal. i understand and dont want to minimize the issues that have come up with the naming. | 15:56 |
| gmann | aprice: +1, strongly feel that we need to change the process also here | 15:56 |
| aprice | i agree. | 15:57 |
| aprice | i just didnt want to skip steps | 15:57 |
| gmann | may be foundation just pick name and finalize. no community/TC involvement | 15:57 |
| dansmith | yes | 15:57 |
| dansmith | like debian | 15:57 |
| aprice | i would hate to take that away from the community though. | 15:57 |
| gmann | yeah, like debian | 15:57 |
| dansmith | I wish them luck :) | 15:57 |
| spotz | It is definitely worth the trouble to have names, we just need to work out the best way | 15:57 |
| gmann | aprice: that is main issue then, we thought of giving it to release team or other but than it is same problem there. | 15:58 |
| aprice | yeah, but the Foundation picks names / other decisions like event locations for the community (with community input). this wouldnt be the first thing of its kind | 15:58 |
| jungleboyj | I think it is important for the community to still be involved to feel a connection to the name. | 15:58 |
| ttx | i feel like Foundation is better equipped to receive early private complaints, than a team like TC or release team that does its work in public | 15:58 |
| jungleboyj | ttx: Agreed. | 15:58 |
| rosmaita | ttx: ++ | 15:58 |
| ttx | maybe we'll discover that it's a pain and drop it :) But I'm confident we can make it work | 15:59 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 15:59 |
| ttx | as a fun community activity again | 15:59 |
| spotz | ttx +2:) | 15:59 |
| gmann | ttx: may be. but community members raises concern in past so not sure if they do not want to speak to TC prior to selection | 15:59 |
| aprice | as a next step, i can work on a strawman proposal, but I think at least giving the foundation the chance to keep the naming release process is something I would very much like to try. | 16:00 |
| ttx | i think they have no idea names are being selected. The Foudnation is better equipped to tap into social channels and not surprise anyone | 16:00 |
| gmann | aprice: ttx sure | 16:00 |
| jungleboyj | That sounds reasonable to me. | 16:01 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | It was a fun community thing that's become a chore that can easily be handled by the foundation. | 16:01 |
| rosmaita | diablo_rojo_phone: good summary | 16:01 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | And it makes more sense given that it's a release marketing thing that the foundation handle it. | 16:01 |
| gmann | ok, so proposal is : "TC will not be involved in the name instead just ask foundation to give the final name before deadline (release team has). foundation will discuss and see what process they can do current or new which is all ok." | 16:02 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | Since it's not a fun community thing anymore. | 16:02 |
| spotz | Can we call a vote for letting the Foundatio take this task? It'll be up to them to put a plan together and make it work | 16:02 |
| ttx | gmann that works. With my release tam hat on, the name becomes one of the things we ask the Foundation (like events dates etc) | 16:02 |
| gmann | diablo_rojo_phone: indeed and I still not sure how it will be fun we are just changing the place to perfome it :) | 16:02 |
| dansmith | gmann: it will be fun in a schadenfreude sort of way now :) | 16:03 |
| rosmaita | the best kind of fun! | 16:03 |
| gmann | ttx: cool so that can be direct release team to ask foundation and no TC involvement? | 16:03 |
| gmann | spotz: I think most of us are ok to give it to foundation so do not think we need vote here? but I will call for any objection for sure | 16:03 |
| fungi | i think it's also, separately, a good idea to continue with the currently published versioning plan to use release numbers as primary identifiers in our scheduling and automated processes,leaving the cycle names as more of a marketing feature which isn't integral to most of the schedule | 16:04 |
| ttx | gmann: I think we can add it to the release process yes | 16:04 |
| dansmith | gmann: I'm not hearing any dissenting voices, so no need for a vote, IMHO | 16:04 |
| gmann | ttx: cool. | 16:04 |
| gmann | any objection on giving the name process to foundation? | 16:04 |
| gmann | dansmith: yeah | 16:04 |
| dansmith | fungi: agree | 16:04 |
| jungleboyj | No objections from me. | 16:04 |
| aprice | fungi: ++ | 16:04 |
| rosmaita | me neither, sounds like a good idea | 16:04 |
| gmann | fungi: ++ good point | 16:04 |
| slaweq | no objections from me | 16:04 |
| spotz | Sweet names go to the foundation! | 16:05 |
| aprice | thanks for chatting through it everyone | 16:05 |
| gmann | ok, I will propose it in gerrit to update the release name process in TC and then we will be good to go. | 16:05 |
| rosmaita | aprice: thanks for taking this on! | 16:05 |
| aprice | i will work on a proposal with out team and then move forward from here | 16:05 |
| jungleboyj | aprice: Yes, thank you. | 16:05 |
| spotz | Thanks aprice!!!! | 16:05 |
| aprice | no problem! | 16:06 |
| gmann | aprice: ttx thanks for joining and taking it. it has been too noisy for TC for many cycle. not name but also the discussion on what to do:) | 16:06 |
| aprice | for sure, im glad that you brought it to the ML so we could take that off yalls list. | 16:06 |
| gmann | +1, thanks again | 16:07 |
| ttx | definitely not the best use of TC's limited time | 16:07 |
| gmann | yeah | 16:07 |
| gmann | we are out of time, and closing the meeting | 16:07 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 16:07 |
| spotz | Thanks ttx! | 16:07 |
| jungleboyj | Thank you everyone! | 16:07 |
| arne_wiebalck | Thanks! | 16:07 |
| gmann | thanks everyone for joining, very productive meeting today, we figured the two big things | 16:07 |
| jungleboyj | \o/ | 16:07 |
| gmann | #endmeeting | 16:08 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Thu May 12 16:08:06 2022 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:08 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2022/tc.2022-05-12-15.00.html | 16:08 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2022/tc.2022-05-12-15.00.txt | 16:08 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2022/tc.2022-05-12-15.00.log.html | 16:08 |
| slaweq | o/ | 16:08 |
| spotz | Congrats everyone! Thanks as well | 16:08 |
| slaweq | gmann: do You want me to follow up with https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/839897 and change it accordingly to the today's discussion? | 16:08 |
| gmann | slaweq: may be I will propose new patch and we can abandon it so that can be used as history ? | 16:09 |
| slaweq | sure, sounds good | 16:10 |
| slaweq | thx | 16:10 |
| gmann | rosmaita: do you want to add the release notes things? | 16:27 |
| gmann | rosmaita: dansmith I think we can add it in p-t-g https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/release-management.html#managing-release-notes | 16:28 |
| dansmith | yar | 16:28 |
| rosmaita | gmann: dansmith: (was at lunch) ack, i'll put up a patch | 17:05 |
| gmann | rosmaita: thanks | 17:11 |
| mnaser | do we have a metric inside openstack right now that checks on things like "time to land a change" ? | 17:30 |
| dansmith | the tool to compute it is still waiting for review | 17:31 |
| * dansmith cracks himself up | 17:31 | |
| jungleboyj | He he. | 17:41 |
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| *** prometheanfire is now known as Guest0 | 22:26 | |
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