| *** Guest166 is now known as diablo_rojo_phone | 01:47 | |
| *** pojadhav is now known as pojadhav|afk | 11:39 | |
| *** dasm|off is now known as dasm | 13:29 | |
| gmann | tc-members: meeting in 2 min from now | 14:58 |
|---|---|---|
| arne_wiebalck | gmann: I am still in another meeting, will join as soon as I can. | 14:58 |
| gmann | arne_wiebalck: ack, thanks | 14:58 |
| gmann | #startmeeting tc | 15:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Thu Sep 15 15:00:20 2022 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 15:00 |
| knikolla | o/ | 15:00 |
| gmann | #Roll call | 15:00 |
| gmann | o/ | 15:00 |
| gmann | #topic Roll call | 15:00 |
| gmann | o/ | 15:00 |
| slaweq | o/ | 15:00 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 15:00 |
| knikolla | o/ | 15:00 |
| dansmith | o/ | 15:00 |
| gmann | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 15:01 |
| gmann | today agenda ^^ | 15:01 |
| rosmaita | o/ | 15:02 |
| gmann | #topic Follow up on past action items | 15:02 |
| gmann | gmann to add community-wide goal productivity and how to make work fast in PTG etherpas | 15:03 |
| gmann | that is done | 15:03 |
| gmann | gmann to add and invite SIG I18 chair/members to TC+ Leader interaction session | 15:03 |
| gmann | I added the note but I will ping SIG chair during PTG | 15:03 |
| gmann | gmann to book operator hours slot and ask PTL to choose them | 15:03 |
| gmann | this is also done, we will discuss it in PTG topic | 15:03 |
| gmann | gmann to check with PTG organizer about 17-19 UTC slot booking | 15:03 |
| gmann | ditto | 15:03 |
| gmann | #topic Gate health check | 15:03 |
| gmann | any news on gate? | 15:04 |
| dansmith | I have no data, because I've been doing nothing fun lately :( | 15:04 |
| rosmaita | anecdotally, i have not done many rechecks recently ... though maybe i should not say that out loud | 15:04 |
| slaweq | in Neutron we still have some issues with oslo.db 12.1.0 | 15:04 |
| slaweq | but other than that seems like things are fine | 15:05 |
| slaweq | and rechecks are also good IMO | 15:05 |
| dansmith | sweet | 15:05 |
| gmann | nice, thanks | 15:05 |
| jungleboyj | Good news. | 15:06 |
| gmann | Bare 'recheck' state | 15:06 |
| gmann | slaweq: please go ahead | 15:06 |
| slaweq | it seems good still, not many rechecks in general in last week | 15:07 |
| slaweq | and many more active projects are I think more or less following guidance and have less bare rechecks recently | 15:07 |
| slaweq | there are still few smaller projects which I need to reach out to but I didn't had time :/ | 15:07 |
| jungleboyj | Will be interesting to see how things go as we get into the RC time frame. | 15:07 |
| slaweq | jungleboyj++ | 15:08 |
| gmann | slaweq: thanks | 15:09 |
| gmann | #topic 2023.1 cycle PTG Planning | 15:09 |
| gmann | TC + Leaders interaction sessions | 15:09 |
| gmann | slot is booked for this on Monday 15-17 UTC #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-leaders-interaction-2023-1 | 15:10 |
| gmann | TC PTG | 15:10 |
| gmann | etherpad #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-2023-1-ptg | 15:10 |
| gmann | please add the topic you would like to discuss | 15:10 |
| gmann | About TC slots | 15:11 |
| gmann | as discussed in last meeting, we want to book slot for Thursday Friday 15-19 UTC | 15:11 |
| gmann | I booked 15-17UTC slots on both day | 15:11 |
| gmann | and for 17-19 UTC, I pinged and sent email to PTG organizer Erin and diablo_rojo_phone | 15:12 |
| gmann | but no response yet | 15:12 |
| gmann | I will send another reminder and will update here whatever will be the decision, | 15:12 |
| gmann | we can discuss about alternate slots based on the discussion | 15:13 |
| gmann | for now let's wait | 15:13 |
| rosmaita | sounds good | 15:13 |
| gmann | Schedule 'operator hours' | 15:14 |
| gmann | #link https://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2022-September/030301.html | 15:14 |
| dansmith | glance said this morning they would be scheduling theirs | 15:14 |
| dansmith | I think nova is done | 15:14 |
| rosmaita | everyone i talk to is excited about these | 15:14 |
| gmann | yeah nova, cinder, horizon done | 15:14 |
| gmann | great | 15:14 |
| knikolla | :) | 15:15 |
| slaweq | I will ask lajoskatona about Neutron on our next team meeting | 15:15 |
| gmann | please encourage and communicate this to other PTL also in case they missed the email | 15:15 |
| gmann | slaweq: +1 thanks | 15:15 |
| knikolla | i'll ping the keystone ptl, once we appoint one. | 15:15 |
| gmann | knikolla: thanks | 15:16 |
| gmann | anything else on PTG things? | 15:17 |
| gmann | #topic 2023.1 cycle Technical Election & Leaderless projects | 15:17 |
| gmann | spotz: knikolla any update you would like to highlight | 15:18 |
| gmann | or jungleboyj | 15:18 |
| gmann | I think voting are open until 19 Sept? | 15:18 |
| knikolla | yes voting is ongoing for TC and Ironic | 15:19 |
| knikolla | until Monday | 15:19 |
| jungleboyj | ++ | 15:19 |
| knikolla | Polling is going smoothly, I haven't looked at the voting stats. One thing that we should have done better was send the notice for people to opt-in to CIVS emails much sooner. | 15:20 |
| jungleboyj | ++ | 15:20 |
| arne_wiebalck | how does the number of eligible voters compare to previous elections? | 15:20 |
| knikolla | We hadn't run an election in over a year, so between the officials there was little experience actually running one. ianychoi[m] did a great job uploading the rolls and kicking things off. | 15:20 |
| jungleboyj | It sounds, however, like if people where eligible they will see the poll pending when they opt-in | 15:21 |
| knikolla | I don't have that data yet. I can report back on the next meeting about it. | 15:21 |
| jungleboyj | knikolla: Yes. Thank you ianchoi[m] ! | 15:21 |
| gmann | +1, ianychoi[m] is always helpful in every election. | 15:21 |
| gmann | arne_wiebalck: I think actual votes might be less due to CIVS opt-in things | 15:22 |
| knikolla | 54 people have voted so far out of 395 eligible voters on the TC election. | 15:22 |
| dansmith | lol | 15:22 |
| gmann | many might have missed to opt-in and missed the poll email | 15:22 |
| slaweq | maybe we should send some reminder about it? | 15:23 |
| knikolla | and for ironic 10 out of 34. | 15:23 |
| gmann | knikolla: 395 eligible but do we know how many opt-in the CIVS email things? | 15:23 |
| rosmaita | slaweq: ++ | 15:23 |
| gmann | +1 on reminder | 15:23 |
| rosmaita | i think in the reminder, we can stress that if you opt-in, you can vote immediately | 15:23 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:23 |
| rosmaita | i had the impression from the earlier emails that if you didn't opt-in before the poll started, you were out of luck | 15:23 |
| jungleboyj | rosmaita: Good idea. | 15:24 |
| gmann | but if they have not opt-in then are we going to send poll email again? or they just missed it | 15:24 |
| arne_wiebalck | rosmaita: this was my understanding as well | 15:24 |
| gmann | rosmaita: we can resend the email. I did for TC election | 15:24 |
| jungleboyj | gmann: I don't think they then get the poll e-mail. | 15:24 |
| rosmaita | gmann: i think what happens is that when you opt-in it shows up as one of the polls you can take | 15:24 |
| fungi | i think we just never tested whether you get a ballot immediately after opting in or need to be re-added to the rolls | 15:24 |
| gmann | but TC voter were less and resneding were doable | 15:24 |
| gmann | fungi: I did in TC election and it worked | 15:24 |
| fungi | awesome! that's helpful | 15:25 |
| gmann | we need to add email again that is why I asked if that is doable in this election or not | 15:25 |
| fungi | this is the first time we've held a poll for a tc election since civs introduced their opt-in policy, so it's been a bit of an unknown | 15:25 |
| gmann | for TC internal election for something was just for 9 member | 15:25 |
| gmann | yeah, many or I will say most of community are unkown of it | 15:26 |
| rosmaita | fungi: ok, that explains it ... i had no memory of ever having to do this for previous elections | 15:26 |
| fungi | they put it into place ~1.5 years ago, i think | 15:26 |
| gmann | knikolla:jungleboyj I think sending reminder on ML is good option and then see how many had opt-in. | 15:26 |
| dansmith | but you don't have to opt in every time right? | 15:26 |
| dansmith | just once per address ever | 15:27 |
| gmann | and if anyone ask to resend poll after opt-in then you can see if that is doable | 15:27 |
| rosmaita | dansmith: i believe that's correct | 15:27 |
| fungi | dansmith: i think you remain opted in for that address indefinitely, at least that's how it's seemed | 15:27 |
| knikolla | i'll see if I can dig in information about how many people voted in prior TC elections percentage-wise. | 15:27 |
| gmann | dalees: yes, only one time | 15:27 |
| dansmith | I tried to opt-in this last time because I couldn't remember, and it told me I was already opted in | 15:27 |
| jungleboyj | fungi: ++ | 15:27 |
| dansmith | yeah | 15:27 |
| gmann | dansmith: yes. one time | 15:27 |
| jungleboyj | Yes, when I tried to opt-in it told me I already had for that e-mail. | 15:27 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:27 |
| jungleboyj | I can resend the reminder e-mail I sent earlier. | 15:28 |
| gmann | thansk | 15:28 |
| gmann | anything else on election? | 15:28 |
| gmann | from PTL nomination, 9 project were without nomination. good news is that we found leaders for all 9 #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/2023.1-leaderless | 15:29 |
| knikolla | wallaby TC election had 181 votes out of 619 | 15:29 |
| gmann | knikolla: yeah, that is usually trend. more then ~120 this time can be good number I think | 15:30 |
| rosmaita | so we're running about half that participation right now | 15:30 |
| knikolla | so proportionally, about half, yes | 15:30 |
| gmann | few of project like Zun, Swift who have same PTL for many cycle and we have to appoint PTL for them (Zun for many cycle). I think we should talk to them to move to DPL model. what you say? | 15:31 |
| fungi | also, in case anyone has questions about the number of eligible voters being lower this time, i looked into it and it seems like we have fewer and fewer contributors joining the foundation as individual members, or their memberships are lapsing because of not voting consistently in board of directors elections, or they're not keeping their e-mail addresses updated in their foundation | 15:31 |
| fungi | profiles whenever they change them in gerrit | 15:31 |
| gmann | that will avoid election cost for those such project | 15:32 |
| rosmaita | fungi: i was just going to ask that, thanks | 15:32 |
| gmann | and they can move back to PTL model anytime like keystone did | 15:32 |
| fungi | rosmaita: yeah, it was something like 918 contributors with valid contributions to qualify as voters, but only around 40% had matching foundation individual memberships | 15:33 |
| gmann | or one way is to ask all these 9 projects to mode to DPL model of they want or can check in their team | 15:33 |
| rosmaita | gmann: i don't know, DPL seems more problematic ... easier to strong-arm someone to be PTL | 15:33 |
| gmann | and see how many move to DPL model | 15:33 |
| jungleboyj | E-mail on opting in sent. | 15:33 |
| knikolla | thanks jungleboyj | 15:33 |
| slaweq | jungleboyj++ thx | 15:33 |
| gmann | rosmaita: agree but many of these projects miss PTL nomination in every election and we have appoint same PTL in every cycle | 15:34 |
| gmann | jungleboyj: thanks | 15:34 |
| gmann | that is unnecessary overhead for election official as well as on TC | 15:34 |
| slaweq | gmann I think that we can terll those projects that they can consider such switch in before next cycle but I don't think we should do that for all of them | 15:34 |
| rosmaita | well, i am thinking that there is more TC monitoring involved when a project goes to DPL | 15:35 |
| knikolla | i think in situations were the team doesn't express a desire to move to a DPL model, it's because their contributors don't have enough time to take on the responsibilities and a DPL model might exacerbate that by not having someone accountable. | 15:35 |
| gmann | slaweq: not for all of them. who all want to switch | 15:35 |
| rosmaita | knikolla: ++ | 15:35 |
| knikolla | In keystone we basically stopped running the weekly meeting | 15:35 |
| knikolla | Nobody felt accountable to do it. | 15:35 |
| slaweq | gmann: we can talk with teams abolut such possibility | 15:35 |
| gmann | knikolla: ohk, that is interesting data and feedback | 15:35 |
| rosmaita | slaweq: ++ good topic for the PTL/TC interaction meeting | 15:36 |
| gmann | ok let's talk to few of them like Zun | 15:36 |
| slaweq | during last summit in Berlin I was on the session about keystone and how it was "revived" | 15:36 |
| gmann | I will check and see if few of them like Zun or other are interested | 15:36 |
| jungleboyj | rosmaita: ++ | 15:36 |
| gmann | keystone is good example to consider DPL model | 15:37 |
| slaweq | and one interesting thing which they told me is that we should monitor how much of the contribution to the project comes from single company/person | 15:37 |
| gmann | rosmaita: +1, feel free to add in etherpad #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-leaders-interaction-2023-1 | 15:37 |
| knikolla | slaweq: yeah, by RH injecting 3 new people to it. | 15:37 |
| slaweq | as this can be one of the potential warning flags about project's health | 15:37 |
| fungi | keystone was using dpl and switched back in april | 15:37 |
| slaweq | so I have it on my todo to write some tool to check it but I didn't had time for it | 15:38 |
| slaweq | but I will get to it | 15:38 |
| gmann | slaweq: I feel company diversity is major issue in many projects | 15:38 |
| gmann | slaweq: thanks +1 | 15:38 |
| fungi | er, s/april/february/ | 15:38 |
| rosmaita | slaweq: was that keystone revival summit session recorded? | 15:38 |
| knikolla | rosmaita: yes, it's on youtube. | 15:38 |
| rosmaita | cool | 15:38 |
| fungi | so if the suggestion is for keystone to go from ptl back to dpl again, it would probably be a good idea to revisit why they stopped with the dpl model the first time | 15:39 |
| gmann | please paste link if you have handy | 15:39 |
| gmann | anything else on election or leaderless project? | 15:39 |
| knikolla | fungi: i'm happy to talk about that now, if this is the right time and meeting | 15:39 |
| slaweq | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujq8I8wPpng&list=PLKqaoAnDyfgqUDjoZhZnDKF5aJrLMnm9E&index=93 | 15:40 |
| gmann | we are not talking about keystone moving to DPL, discussion is for other project | 15:40 |
| gmann | slaweq: thanks | 15:40 |
| gmann | keystone found PTL model is more suitable than DPL | 15:40 |
| fungi | gmann: thanks, i guess i misunderstood what you meant by "keystone is good example to consider DPL model" | 15:40 |
| gmann | and that is good feedback for other projects moving to DPL | 15:40 |
| gmann | fungi: ohk :) | 15:41 |
| fungi | sounded like you were proposing to switch them to dpl again, sorry ;) | 15:41 |
| knikolla | perhaps a better phrasing "keystone is a good example of experiences with dpl model" | 15:41 |
| slaweq | gmann maybe we should also use https://github.com/openstack/governance/blob/master/tools/project_stats_check.py and check health of those 9 projects? | 15:41 |
| gmann | no, for other project missed nomination | 15:41 |
| *** pojadhav is now known as pojadhav|out | 15:41 | |
| slaweq | and then reach out to those teams maybe | 15:41 |
| gmann | but after seeing keystone feedback I agree that we should ask/force all those project to DPL | 15:41 |
| knikolla | I'm hesitant of using the word force. | 15:42 |
| gmann | slaweq: +1, I will put some data in etherpad and in next meeting or so we can discuss if any project can be in DPL | 15:42 |
| slaweq | gmann thx | 15:42 |
| gmann | anything else on this topic ? | 15:42 |
| gmann | sorry for my typo | 15:43 |
| gmann | * I agree that we should NOT ask all those project to DPL | 15:43 |
| fungi | the tc can't force people to volunteer, but it can remove projects if they fail to identify any leadership | 15:43 |
| gmann | I missed the NOT | 15:43 |
| dansmith | what? we can't? | 15:43 |
| rosmaita | ok, now i feel better | 15:44 |
| knikolla | ah :) | 15:44 |
| gmann | :) | 15:44 |
| jungleboyj | The power of one word in a sentence. | 15:44 |
| jungleboyj | Or punctuation. :-) | 15:44 |
| slaweq | :) | 15:44 |
| gmann | yeah and my most common mistake in english :) | 15:44 |
| fungi | mine too! | 15:45 |
| gmann | :) | 15:45 |
| gmann | moving to next topic | 15:45 |
| gmann | #topic Open Reviews | 15:45 |
| gmann | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/projects:openstack/governance+is:open | 15:45 |
| gmann | we have four open review | 15:45 |
| gmann | this is ready, #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/856927 | 15:45 |
| gmann | this too #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/857493 | 15:46 |
| gmann | elodilles: this WIP for long time, do you want to reiterate it? #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/850005 | 15:46 |
| gmann | jungleboyj: ditto, 2021 user survey things #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/836888 | 15:47 |
| jungleboyj | Yes I need to. | 15:47 |
| gmann | thanks | 15:47 |
| gmann | that is all for today from agenda. anything else to discuss? | 15:47 |
| jungleboyj | Nothing from me. | 15:48 |
| slaweq | nope | 15:48 |
| gmann | ok. thanks all for joining | 15:48 |
| gmann | #endmeeting | 15:48 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Thu Sep 15 15:48:55 2022 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:48 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2022/tc.2022-09-15-15.00.html | 15:48 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2022/tc.2022-09-15-15.00.txt | 15:48 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2022/tc.2022-09-15-15.00.log.html | 15:48 |
| slaweq | o/ | 15:48 |
| jungleboyj | Thank you! | 15:48 |
| arne_wiebalck | thanks! | 15:50 |
| opendevreview | Elod Illes proposed openstack/governance master: Mark panko projects as retired https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/850005 | 15:56 |
| elodilles | gmann: updated the patch ^^^ waited for the linked patch to fix the repo | 15:59 |
| gmann | elodilles: nice, thanks | 16:07 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/governance master: Add Keystone OpenID Connect charm to OpenStack charms https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/857493 | 16:19 |
| gmann | tc-members: need one review in this https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/850005 | 16:45 |
| dansmith | panko is the ssh thing right? | 16:45 |
| dansmith | I thought we used that still in a few places, am I wrong? | 16:46 |
| dansmith | (I RC+1 because if it's retired then fine) | 16:46 |
| dansmith | er, deprecated | 16:46 |
| slaweq | dansmith isn't pancosomething what was working together with ceilometer and gnocchi? | 16:47 |
| gmann | panko for store and query event | 16:48 |
| dansmith | I'm thinking of paramiko | 16:48 |
| fungi | paramiko is the ssh lib | 16:48 |
| fungi | yeah, that | 16:48 |
| gmann | yeah | 16:48 |
| slaweq | Ok. Just wanted to be sure 😊 | 16:48 |
| slaweq | gmann done | 16:49 |
| gmann | thanks | 16:50 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/governance master: Mark panko projects as retired https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/850005 | 16:59 |
| *** dasm is now known as dasm|off | 21:58 | |
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