| opendevreview | Tony Breeds proposed openstack/election master: Add configuration for 2024.2/"D" elections https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/election/+/905152 | 00:29 |
|---|---|---|
| opendevreview | Tony Breeds proposed openstack/election master: [trivial] Remove addition whitespace in string https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/election/+/905153 | 00:29 |
| tonyb | JayF: Do you have sometime tomorrow to chat about comms for ^^^^ | 00:32 |
| JayF | 7am my time work for you? That's in ... 14 and a half hours if my math is right? 7am PST | 00:34 |
| gmann | election dates are correct and as per TC charter. though indentation need to be fixed, rest all looks good to me | 02:09 |
| tonyb | JayF: I'm back in Australia (UTC+11) so think that's like 2am. I'd prefer a little later :-P | 02:51 |
| opendevreview | Tony Breeds proposed openstack/election master: Add configuration for 2024.2/"D" elections https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/election/+/905152 | 04:13 |
| opendevreview | Tony Breeds proposed openstack/election master: [trivial] Remove addition whitespace in string https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/election/+/905153 | 04:13 |
| *** blarnath is now known as d34dh0r53 | 15:01 | |
| JayF | tonyb: is this a more reasonable time where you're at? | 20:14 |
| JayF | well, 7:15am if my math works, so depends on if he works early like me :D | 20:15 |
| fungi | i gather that depends heavily on caffeine availability | 20:25 |
| fungi | i, personally, am not even human until lunchtime | 20:25 |
| fungi | prior to that time, i'm more of a troglodyte who hisses at bright lights | 20:25 |
| JayF | I am kinda in reverse | 20:30 |
| JayF | I wake up and in like, 30 minutes, I'm the best Jay you're gonna get all day, it's all downhill from there | 20:30 |
| JayF | If you ever want to get the fire out of me and just have me agree to whatever crazy idea you have, schedule the meeting at 4:30pm ;) | 20:30 |
| fungi | i'm married to someone like that. i respect it, but will never truly understand it | 20:55 |
| JayF | Honestly, I was not that way *until* I married a teacher and basically adopted her sleep schedule, which replaced my "what's a sleep schedule?" sleep schedule :D | 21:01 |
| fungi | maybe that happened too late in life for me and i was already set in my ways | 21:01 |
| tonyb | JayF: I'm awake and have had one coffee. | 21:35 |
| tonyb | it's school holidays here so I've been sleeping a little later as there isn't a need to do a "school run" | 21:36 |
| clarkb | tonyb: reseting after our school holidays was really difficult | 21:37 |
| JayF | tonyb: What exactly was there for us to talk about? | 22:05 |
| fungi | "communications regarding upcoming elections" it seemed like | 22:21 |
| JayF | exactly is the operative word :) I have some idea of the things that entails but it's my first go-round as TC liason | 22:23 |
| JayF | I assume we're going to try and do a better job of reaching out this time than in the past, to reduce the incidences of PTLs signing up for re-election late | 22:23 |
| tonyb | JayF: there are a couple of things in that area | 22:24 |
| tonyb | 1) I'm getting a much later start than I intended, and there are potential issues with the timing and Chinese New Year. | 22:24 |
| tonyb | so I'd like to basically open the nomination period ASAP. | 22:25 |
| tonyb | IIRC that need TC approval, in the form of TC chair voting on the proposed change, once published | 22:26 |
| fungi | nb, china is not the only country to observe lunar new year </pedantic> | 22:26 |
| JayF | tonyb: how much earlier is this than usual/intended? | 22:27 |
| tonyb | 2) Are you okay to send email to all the PTLs and the community at large ASAP to encourage adding extra-atcs | 22:28 |
| JayF | I'll do #2 when we're done with our chat | 22:28 |
| fungi | on a related note, we're finalizing content for the january issue of the foundation newsletter. i could include a blurb urging people to consider running for leadership positions, but lack of finalized schedule means it would need to be vague for now | 22:28 |
| tonyb | JayF: 2 weeks, so nominations would be 4 weeks total. That is a long time and probably wont actually fix anything by itself but is an attempt | 22:28 |
| JayF | I am +1 to that, would probably ask for another one of the tc-members to sanity check | 22:29 |
| tonyb | fungi: fair point. I've only heard it referred to as Chinese New Year, which has irritated me everytime I've said it but I lacked the vocabulary you just gave me | 22:29 |
| fungi | and by "we're finalizing" i mean i'm drafting the openstack section now and need to have it done within the hour, so vague it shall be | 22:30 |
| fungi | now, i think china may be the only country to consistently observe lunar new year by eating moon cake, but i'd love to see that tradition expanded to somewhere nearer my house | 22:31 |
| fungi | that stuff is *tasty* | 22:31 |
| tonyb | fungi: You could just say "Feb". The campaining and voting times are outlined here: https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/election/+/905152/2//COMMIT_MSG | 22:31 |
| fungi | i'll take it, thanks | 22:32 |
| JayF | tonyb: there's no magic automation for "get all the PTL email addresses in a copy+pastable format for my mail client" that I'm unaware of, right? Just checking before I whip up a python script to parse projects.yaml :D | 22:32 |
| fungi | happy to link to a review in gerrit if that's what we have for the time being | 22:32 |
| tonyb | I'd also like to email the late candidates from last cycle directly to encourage early participation | 22:33 |
| JayF | tonyb: and to recap: (1) you want to open nomination period now (I am +1 to that and would like another tc member to sanity check that approval before I put it in gerrit, if it doesn't require a full resolution) | 22:33 |
| tonyb | JayF: There used to be in the release tooling, but not that I know of | 22:33 |
| JayF | and (2) I need to email the list (a) and the ptls (b) asking them to configure extra-atcs | 22:33 |
| fungi | JayF: to my knowledge, "make a python script" is the magic automation. luckily it's just a few lines thanks to pyyaml | 22:33 |
| JayF | fungi: that's sorta what I figured, such a low hanging fruit nobody decided to make a real one | 22:33 |
| JayF | fungi: I might change that, it's easy enough to make a `tox -e get-ptl-emails` | 22:33 |
| JayF | anything to lower friction is nice | 22:34 |
| tonyb | JayF: feel free to add to $repo ;P | 22:34 |
| JayF | governance :) | 22:34 |
| fungi | i had one for e-mailing summit discounts to contributors if you really want a python-based mailmerge, but that's likely overkill | 22:34 |
| JayF | tonyb: and I am +1 to emailing the late candidacies (and appointments, I'd do too) from this cycle to do earlier | 22:34 |
| JayF | tonyb: do you want to send those emails or should I? I'd prefer you just to keep my todo list shorter :D | 22:34 |
| tonyb | JayF: I'd also add that *anyone* can self propose as extra ATC and the TC gets the final say so while emailing the PTLs is great, a general openstack-discuss email is also needed | 22:35 |
| JayF | Yes, I am doing both | 22:35 |
| JayF | but will make a note that self-nomination is A-OK in the -discuss email | 22:35 |
| tonyb | JayF: I'm very willing to let you send those emails ;P | 22:36 |
| JayF | So I'm going to email openstack-discuss and PTLs about extra-atcs | 22:36 |
| JayF | I can do appointed/late PTL appointments but that won't get done today | 22:36 |
| JayF | just looking at the clock and my remaining todo today | 22:36 |
| tonyb | That's fine. "this week" is wonderful. Given 0 warning. | 22:39 |
| tonyb | JayF: I'll propose an alternate to https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/election/+/905152/ with a more verbose commit message and longer nomination period. TC members can +/-1 on that. | 22:40 |
| JayF | ack; thanks, please add me as reviewer on that so it'll be in my queue | 22:40 |
| fungi | "Election season is rapidly approaching! If you’re interested in serving the community as a member of the Technical Committee or as a Project Team Lead, now is the time to start thinking about your candidate platform. Our community prides itself on diverse representation from many organizations and professions, so consider how your insight and expertise might enrich and expand our | 22:42 |
| fungi | collective vision. Election activities will begin in February, so keep an eye on the openstack-discuss mailing list and election site for details." | 22:43 |
| fungi | does that cover it? | 22:43 |
| JayF | I almost think that's too passive tbh. | 22:43 |
| fungi | please reword! | 22:43 |
| fungi | we can hack something up on https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/newsletter-openstack-news | 22:44 |
| JayF | working in there but gonna be in and out of it | 22:45 |
| fungi | no worries. i'll just be happy to have something to put in the openstack section that isn't "these 6 projects are now inactive, and by the time you read this it will be too late to get them included in the next release" | 22:47 |
| fungi | i was going to run a boilerplate plug for the user survey, which is basically my default for the rare month that's so slow there's nothing worth covering for the newsletter audience | 22:48 |
| JayF | I mean, what about a blurb on eventlet? | 22:48 |
| JayF | The OpenStack community, led by engineers from G-Research OSS, Red Hat, and some remaining members of the eventlet community basically took eventlet out of the ditch | 22:49 |
| fungi | that's true, we did adopt maintainership of eventlet since the last issue | 22:49 |
| JayF | I think we could write a paragraph on that and highlight some of the good being done | 22:49 |
| JayF | "we" being members of the openstack/oif community, not openstack directly | 22:50 |
| fungi | these are the things i wish people would put on that etherpad ;) | 22:50 |
| JayF | but it's still our impacts :D | 22:50 |
| JayF | well this one is tough b/c you don't wanna declare victory too early, but one paragraph in a newsletter is probably about the right amount | 22:50 |
| JayF | a blog post or conference talk is too much ;) | 22:50 |
| fungi | yep | 22:50 |
| fungi | i agree it's a good one to include. i'll dig up the announcement-ish message so i can link it | 22:51 |
| JayF | I put a small blurb in there | 22:51 |
| JayF | I will draft a thing | 22:52 |
| JayF | I've been very involved there so should be able to do something mostly off the top of my head | 22:52 |
| fungi | https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/message/5NYTYU6NZTL2JIPQ65IXFMR7KLU2UWOW/ is probably the best thing to link? | 22:54 |
| fungi | (about eventlet adoption) | 22:54 |
| JayF | fungi: potentially, I think there's more good that can be said | 23:00 |
| JayF | let me get to the bottom of these email things then I can draft that with full brain | 23:00 |
| JayF | btw -> https://opendev.org/openstack/governance/src/branch/master/tools/list_ptls.py score | 23:00 |
| fungi | JayF: yeah, i just try to have at least one thing to link out to for more information (be it a mailing list post, a change in gerrit, a document on one of the project websites...) | 23:01 |
| fungi | subtle reminder to readers that they can get involved | 23:01 |
| JayF | I think the issue in github where we basically go "Hey eventlet, can we have the keys?" may be just as good but I want to look first | 23:03 |
| fungi | wfm | 23:03 |
| JayF | I'd like to shine the light on "OpenStack contributors took action to help the larger python community" and less on "OpenStack was screwed and scratched their own back" | 23:03 |
| JayF | even though both are kinda true | 23:03 |
| fungi | yeah, outcomes is what i like to link when possible, but ones which show where or how the reader can potentially pitch in | 23:04 |
| fungi | for me at least, these newsletter entries are less about reporting and more about getting more people involved | 23:05 |
| fungi | because, at the end of the day, that's the one thing we need the most of | 23:06 |
| opendevreview | Brian Rosmaita proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Update repo deprecation instructions https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/905273 | 23:13 |
| JayF | tonyb: I cannot find a doc, anywhere, on how to name someone an extra_ac | 23:15 |
| JayF | tonyb: I'm 99.99% sure it is "put a extra_ac key under your project in projects.yaml and populate it" but I can't find evidence of that in git, either | 23:15 |
| gmann | JayF: tonyb if we change the dates of election other that what charter allow, then it needs to be proposed in governance as election exception and TC vote | 23:16 |
| JayF | https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/777871/1/reference/sigs-repos.yaml aha | 23:16 |
| JayF | gmann: I suspected something like that would be the case; that's part of why I called out for more review | 23:16 |
| gmann | yeah, from charter "Any exception to TC election schedule needs to be recorded in Election Exceptions" | 23:16 |
| JayF | tonyb: that means in practice, the earliest we could land such a resolution would be Jan 11 (US time, I suspect it's already Jan 11 there?) | 23:16 |
| tonyb | gmann: that's not how we've done it in the past. | 23:16 |
| gmann | yeah, you can propose the exception here https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/election-exceptions.html | 23:17 |
| gmann | tonyb: we have done the same in past | 23:17 |
| gmann | this is mentioned in charter also in case - last line in this section https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/charter.html#election-for-tc-seats | 23:17 |
| tonyb | JayF: I think the only docs are in the TC charter and it says email the TC chair but technically adding data into the extra-acs key is "fine" | 23:18 |
| gmann | if election dates are not as per the charter criteria it is still possible to adjust the dates but it has to be proposed as exception in governance and approved by TC | 23:18 |
| * tonyb goes to the dentist because that's more "fun" | 23:19 | |
| JayF | tonyb: e.g. https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/777871/ looks like a good example | 23:19 |
| JayF | and I'm fairly sure projects.yaml has the same schema from reading governance.py | 23:19 |
| rosmaita | tonyb: i once missed a faculty meeting because i had to get a root canal ... it was a good trade-off, the root canal was way less painful | 23:19 |
| gmann | this is example for election dates exceptions https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/854624 | 23:19 |
| JayF | tonyb: interesting, you're right re: the charter saying emailing me is the process | 23:21 |
| JayF | tonyb: I love that process <.< >.> ask your dentist if you can take a +1 :| | 23:22 |
| gmann | JayF: yes, they can email to you or in openstack-discuss or anyone can propose and TC review those. | 23:22 |
| gmann | and for election schedule adjustment, change needs to be formal-vote so at least we need to wait is 7 days from the change is proposed | 23:26 |
| gmann | tonyb: not sure how far in past you are talking about different process but this is the process we are following since past 4 years | 23:28 |
| tonyb | shoot I think gmann is correct about the formal vote. I forgot last year we "redefined" "election to include the nomination period not just the voting | 23:29 |
| JayF | tonyb: rfr https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/2024.1-elections-email-extra-acs | 23:29 |
| tonyb | gmann: in the past train for example the process was to seek TC approval in the form of discussion in a meeting and the TC chair +1'ing the election config change | 23:30 |
| gmann | k, I think that was something we experienced in wallaby which was not covered in charter and that is we added this new process so that we follow charter and provide a way to adjust the dates as per different situation | 23:32 |
| JayF | I wonder if there's room for us to adjust the language so in the future we only have to get approval for pushing it up/making timelines shorter but we're always OK with making windows larger within reason | 23:34 |
| tonyb | JayF: my only nit with your etherpad is that the email to -discuss doesn't make it clear $person can self nominate | 23:34 |
| JayF | tonyb: > Self-nominating for extra-Active Contributor status is not only permitted; it's encouraged -- if you've contributed, we want to recognize you. | 23:35 |
| tonyb | but that could be a poor reading by me as I'm in a waiting room | 23:35 |
| JayF | I suspect it's that. I've tried to etherpad on mobile before and it's not a great experience :D | 23:35 |
| JayF | emails away | 23:40 |
| gmann | JayF: tc-members: in case you did not notice, I proposed the tripleO retirement change, if anyone concern about zed branch or keep it alive, please comment in gerrit. I am holding the other cleanup step for this week so that any objection on proposal can be known in advance https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/905145 | 23:42 |
| gmann | TripleO team is +1 on it | 23:42 |
| JayF | I will explicitly note, I had Ironic bifrost devs check, since we were at one point closely affiliated with tripleo | 23:43 |
| JayF | it looks clear from our perspective | 23:43 |
| gmann | perfect | 23:43 |
| JayF | fungi: some complete thoughts in that etherpad now | 23:50 |
| fungi | thanks JayF! | 23:53 |
| JayF | fungi: going to link that to my downstream devrel pros as well if that's okay | 23:54 |
| JayF | fungi: since I have resources who are experts are wordsmithing, going to let them do their magic so we don't have to :D | 23:55 |
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