| opendevreview | OpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/openstack-manuals master: Imported Translations from Zanata https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/939674 | 02:17 |
|---|---|---|
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/governance master: rework the eventlet-removal goal proposal https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/931254 | 04:00 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/governance master: Propose to select the eventlet-removal community goal https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/934936 | 04:00 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/openstack-manuals master: Imported Translations from Zanata https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/939674 | 06:22 |
| gouthamr | tc-members: a gentle reminder that the weekly TC meeting will be held here in ~56 minutes | 17:04 |
| spotz[m] | Thanks I keep getting to all my meetings late today. I'm blaming the snow | 17:19 |
| fungi | texas got white stuff too? | 17:22 |
| fungi | ours isn't due until overnight | 17:22 |
| fungi | i have relatives in nw fl and south al who are getting it now | 17:23 |
| spotz[m] | In places I'd say we were close to an inch and other no snow, right now in the shade of the house we still have snow but by the coop in the sun no snow:( | 17:37 |
| fungi | nws is telling us it'll be 6-8" overnight | 17:42 |
| spotz[m] | dang! | 17:44 |
| *** eandersson0 is now known as eandersson | 17:51 | |
| slaweq | hi gouthamr, sorry for the late notice but I won't be able to attend today's meeting | 17:54 |
| gouthamr | slaweq: ack | 18:00 |
| gouthamr | #startmeeting tc | 18:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Tue Jan 21 18:00:24 2025 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gouthamr. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 18:00 |
| gouthamr | Welcome to the weekly meeting of the OpenStack Technical Committee. A reminder that this meeting is held under the OpenInfra Code of Conduct available at https://openinfra.dev/legal/code-of-conduct | 18:00 |
| gouthamr | Today's meeting agenda can be found at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 18:00 |
| gouthamr | #topic Roll Call | 18:01 |
| cardoe | o/ | 18:01 |
| bauzas | \o | 18:01 |
| frickler | \o | 18:01 |
| cardoe | I'll probably miss next week. I'm on PTO and not sure where I'll be at the time of the meeting. | 18:01 |
| noonedeadpunk | o/ | 18:01 |
| gouthamr | cardoe: ack | 18:01 |
| gouthamr | noted absence: s l a w e q | 18:02 |
| gtema | o/ | 18:02 |
| gouthamr | courtesy-ping: gmann, spotz[m] | 18:02 |
| spotz[m] | o/ | 18:02 |
| gmann | o/ | 18:02 |
| gouthamr | that's everybody; thank you for joining.. lets get started.. | 18:03 |
| gouthamr | #topic Last Week's AIs | 18:03 |
| gouthamr | noonedeadpunk: many thanks for running last week's meeting :) | 18:03 |
| noonedeadpunk | sorry for not sending notes :( | 18:03 |
| noonedeadpunk | there was not much things though | 18:04 |
| gouthamr | no problem! i had the log and captured some AIs from there: | 18:04 |
| gouthamr | proposal on dealing with poorly maintained repositories that can't be deprecated/retired, case in point openstackdocstheme | 18:04 |
| gouthamr | ^ noonedeadpunk this was assigned to you.. would you like to move it to the TC tracker? don't think there's any urgency here.. right? | 18:05 |
| noonedeadpunk | yeah, so this scenario was kinda sorted out by providing gtema access | 18:05 |
| noonedeadpunk | so indeed no urgency should be so far | 18:06 |
| gtema | yeah, still w+ is missing on os-api-ref to proces dependencies | 18:06 |
| gtema | no, vice-versa, I have +2/+W on os-api-ref but not in openstackdocstheme | 18:07 |
| fungi | i think that needs help from the oslo team to add | 18:08 |
| gouthamr | ah; ty.. oslo-core is a pretty slim group | 18:08 |
| gouthamr | maybe we can ping tkajinam / stephenfin or hberaud to assist here | 18:09 |
| noonedeadpunk | gtema: oh, I thought last week gmann said he grated you openstackdocstheme | 18:09 |
| gmann | I added it in the oslo team meeting agenda couple of week back but we can check if that has been discussed or not | 18:09 |
| noonedeadpunk | at least I was under this impression | 18:09 |
| spotz[m] | I think they're all in this channel though maybe not awake | 18:09 |
| gmann | noonedeadpunk: not yet I think, I left oslo core member to add it | 18:09 |
| noonedeadpunk | I see | 18:10 |
| gouthamr | gmann: i don't think they've met this year, yet? | 18:10 |
| gouthamr | gmann: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/oslo/ | 18:10 |
| gmann | here is discussion | 18:10 |
| gmann | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/epoxy-oslo-meeting-tracking#L95 | 18:10 |
| gouthamr | ah; no meeting yet by the looks of it. | 18:11 |
| gmann | I can check with damani and check the plan to discuss/add gtema in core list of openstackdocstheme | 18:11 |
| gouthamr | :) i'd hold off and ping someone else | 18:12 |
| gouthamr | he'd be afk for a few more weeks.. | 18:12 |
| gouthamr | i can follow up, gmann and gtema | 18:13 |
| gmann | just pinged in oslo channel | 18:13 |
| gmann | last time it was discussed, there was no objection but we wanted to discuss it with all core members mostly after holidays | 18:13 |
| gouthamr | ++ | 18:13 |
| gouthamr | ty gmann | 18:14 |
| gouthamr | anything else about this AI? | 18:14 |
| gouthamr | okay, moving on.. we discussed elections and allowing early nominations but i don't think we closed the loop on this | 18:16 |
| gouthamr | election officials have not completed the "kickoff" activities as yet - one of which is to setup the directories | 18:18 |
| fungi | there's no candidates/2025.2 directory in the election repo yet, so too soon for candidates to start proposing their nominations | 18:18 |
| bauzas | what else then ? | 18:18 |
| bauzas | do we have candidates that nominate themselves before the nominations start ? | 18:18 |
| gouthamr | bauzas: can i tack an AI on you to track this stuff? | 18:18 |
| * noonedeadpunk needs to propose resolution for late freezer release :( | 18:18 | |
| bauzas | gouthamr: shoot | 18:18 |
| gouthamr | noonedeadpunk: noted | 18:18 |
| bauzas | I'll doublecheck with the elections folks | 18:19 |
| fungi | i don't see any changes to add it proposed yet either | 18:19 |
| fungi | (the election candidates directory i mean_ | 18:20 |
| gouthamr | ack.. | 18:20 |
| bauzas | my point is, if anyone can propose themselves now, why do we need to wait until Feb 5 then ? | 18:20 |
| spotz[m] | I thought the directories were there, looking for the tab of my last pull | 18:20 |
| bauzas | if this is just for signaling that election officials will review your patches by that date, then that sounds a procedural detail | 18:20 |
| gmann | there is no restriction on candidate itself add dir with placeholder or candidacy | 18:20 |
| gouthamr | yes that's what it means.. | 18:20 |
| fungi | proposed nominations prior to the start of the nominations period have to be rechecked within the nominations window to get a passing ci result, i think (unless that has changed more recently), but otherwise there's nothing stopping someone from proposing their nomination once the directory structure for the election has been created | 18:21 |
| gmann | if we are expecting to nominate before nomination date then they can add dir along with candidacy | 18:21 |
| spotz[m] | Nop 2025.1 is the newest | 18:21 |
| gouthamr | gmann: sure, but they would probably find that unorthodox, and probably do it wrong.. we just need to run a tox command and submit a change | 18:21 |
| gouthamr | fungi: +1 | 18:21 |
| gmann | which is still ok as nomination before nomination is not a regular thing and it is not forced too right | 18:21 |
| bauzas | we're already running the election for a longer period this time, ie. 6 weeks | 18:22 |
| gmann | that is why nomination start date is so that election official can plan their work accordingly. if we ask election officials to add these extra things (plan pre-nomination) in their plate it might be extra expectation | 18:22 |
| gmann | especially considering that we have been struggling to attract more election officials since long | 18:23 |
| gmann | I feel adding more extra thing to them is not good idea | 18:23 |
| gouthamr | hmm, i'd hope not.. lets just throw in a bunch of directories at once | 18:23 |
| bauzas | accepting nominations earlier is OK to me but I would want to be sure that people shouldn't expect election official reviews *before* the official starting date | 18:23 |
| gouthamr | bauzas: yes, there's no such expectation | 18:23 |
| gouthamr | CI for instance, would fail because the dates are configured | 18:23 |
| bauzas | is this a written statement somewhere? | 18:23 |
| bauzas | aha I see | 18:24 |
| gmann | gouthamr: early nomination needs to be rechecked, reviewed, and maybe rebase so it is ofcourse more work than just preparing the dir | 18:24 |
| bauzas | yeah | 18:24 |
| gouthamr | hmmm, it sounds like you two are reneging on our earlier discussion that this was a good thing :) the aim here is to prevent leaderless projects because of long holiday weeks during the election cycle | 18:25 |
| bauzas | in the past, have we seen occurrences of nomination patches being open earlier ? | 18:25 |
| gmann | IMO, we should plan early-nomination things when we see there is cases who require it (anyong going on vacation during nominations 2 weeks or so). otherwise extending nomination period to 2 weeks is a wide window for them to add nomination on time | 18:25 |
| bauzas | gouthamr: haven't we considered that specific holiday period by extending the nomination period ? | 18:26 |
| gmann | my only concern here is it add some extra work on election officials | 18:26 |
| gouthamr | we haven't extended the nomination period - the voting period increased to 3 weeks | 18:26 |
| bauzas | gmann: that's my concern too | 18:26 |
| gmann | but is 2 weeks nomination period still short? | 18:27 |
| bauzas | gouthamr: my bad, you're right | 18:27 |
| bauzas | so, I see the problem now but my concern remains | 18:27 |
| fungi | though the nomination window is 2 weeks long | 18:27 |
| fungi | that wasn't an increase | 18:28 |
| bauzas | yup, pardon my misunderstanding, my maths were wrong | 18:28 |
| fungi | at least not in change 938782 | 18:28 |
| spotz[m] | In the past folks have missed nominations | 18:28 |
| gmann | here we are finalizing some dates for election officials to work on but asking them to do tasks before those dates. which might impact their plan | 18:28 |
| gmann | spotz[m]: after we extended it from 1 week to 2 weeks? | 18:28 |
| fungi | we still (and always wil, i think) have missed nominations | 18:29 |
| gmann | I know when it was 1 week, we had cases of missing nomination but after we extended it to 2 weeks I am not sure the example who missed because 2 weeks is short. reason of missing might be something other | 18:29 |
| bauzas | tbc, say we merge the directory patch now, this would avoid rebases but not rechecks for people nominating themselves, right? | 18:29 |
| gouthamr | yes | 18:30 |
| bauzas | this wouldn't be a problem as anyone can request a recheck | 18:30 |
| spotz[m] | People just forget:( How many late volunteers do we get every election? Voting I think tends to be more apathy then I forgot or needed longer | 18:30 |
| bauzas | for example, election officials could only start to review that nomination patch after they recheck the nomination patches on the day the nomination period starts | 18:31 |
| gouthamr | #link https://opendev.org/openstack/election#preparation (Election prep) | 18:32 |
| gouthamr | this thing states, "As early as possible but at least a month before election starts" ... don't think we'd be doing anything new | 18:32 |
| bauzas | OK, then I take the point to discuss that with the officials | 18:33 |
| fungi | the biggest issue i see with early nominations is that it's not obvious when ci would later reject the change and the nominee isn't around to address feedback (fix their foundation profile, et cetera) | 18:33 |
| gmann | this is the election official planning for this election | 18:33 |
| gmann | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/TC_PTL_Elections2025.2F | 18:33 |
| spotz[m] | If I'm understanding what everyone is typing and with past EO knowledge, the only thing the EOs need to do early is create the directories and maybe send a single email? | 18:34 |
| gouthamr | gmann: thank you, lost that link myself :) | 18:34 |
| gmann | and I think early nomination will impact their plan or they need to change some tasks | 18:34 |
| gouthamr | i think the etherpad is missing the early election stuff | 18:35 |
| gmann | which is what my concern is. if we want early nomination then I will suggest to do it from next election with election official proper planning | 18:35 |
| bauzas | I can propose that directory patch if that helps | 18:35 |
| fungi | but in that case, if there's advance planning that makes early nominations desirable and communication will be done far enough in advance, the nomination period could also just be made officially longer | 18:36 |
| gouthamr | gmann: makes sense.. we're not requiring it - this is an earnest effort to avoid people missing the nomination window - lets see how it pans out after bauzas follows up.. | 18:36 |
| gmann | exactly, I will prefer that to extend nomination period for 3 or 4 weeks than unnoticed early-nomination practice | 18:36 |
| gmann | gouthamr: sure | 18:37 |
| bauzas | I'm just working on a patch, I'll follow up with slaweq and ianychoi | 18:37 |
| gouthamr | good stuff, thanks bauzas | 18:37 |
| gmann | but early-nomination is not just about dir, it is much more. communication/announcement etc | 18:37 |
| gouthamr | anything else about this AI? | 18:37 |
| bauzas | - | 18:38 |
| fungi | just a reminder that there's an alternative option for people who know they won't be around for nominations: ask someone else to push the patch on their behalg | 18:38 |
| fungi | behalf | 18:38 |
| gouthamr | not meaning to rush this, but, we've to get to the other topics on our agenda | 18:39 |
| fungi | (that's been done in the past) | 18:39 |
| gouthamr | i never knew that | 18:39 |
| * bauzas remembers when he had to run for the PTL election on August every year and organizing his life off the keyboard around the election dates | 18:39 | |
| gouthamr | always thought we required "self nomination" | 18:39 |
| fungi | that's why we stopped keying on the committer address in the change | 18:39 |
| spotz[m] | Yeah you don't have to self nominate but I assume you need to confirm the nomination | 18:39 |
| * bauzas would have appreciated to know he was able to propose his patch earlier than when he was on PTO | 18:39 | |
| fungi | we've had nominees post their nomination to the mailing list and arrange for someone else to push a patch for them | 18:39 |
| gmann | spotz[m]: ++ yeah | 18:40 |
| gouthamr | okay, #TIL | 18:40 |
| gouthamr | thanks for the discussion, and lets follow up outside this meeting | 18:40 |
| gouthamr | next AI: | 18:41 |
| gouthamr | mirroring DockerHub images to Quay to avoid rate limits | 18:41 |
| opendevreview | Sylvain Bauza proposed openstack/election master: Create candidates/2025.2 placeholder directories https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/election/+/939750 | 18:41 |
| gouthamr | fungi: clarkb: i think this was something you wanted to discuss at the opendev meeting | 18:41 |
| gouthamr | any updates regarding this? | 18:42 |
| fungi | we did, i don't think we reached any agreement on how we would evaluate proposals to add images to the opendevmirror org on quay, though clarkb can correct me if i'm wrong | 18:42 |
| fungi | though we did have a fair amount of luck switching some of our builds/jobs over to use things we've started auto-mirroring to quay | 18:42 |
| clarkb | ya I think we're trying to see how it grows organically. I'm happy to mirror things under that namespace that are generic enough to be widely applicable. | 18:42 |
| clarkb | and yes it seems to have helped quite a bit for things that have switched over | 18:43 |
| clarkb | basically we wouldn't mirror kolla images there. Kolla should set up their own mirror. But we are mirroring python and httpd and mariadb imges | 18:43 |
| clarkb | we have also seen image updates fail | 18:43 |
| clarkb | which isn't unexecpted due to the rate limits. But it is worth noting as a limitation of the system. If you need things to update quickly it may not be the best choice | 18:44 |
| fungi | for anything we're already mirroring to opendevmirror, i expect projects could choose to switch their jobs to use those rather than duplicating that effort | 18:44 |
| gouthamr | sounds reasonable.. maybe project teams need this information somewhere? or would they already know to contact #opendev to set this up | 18:44 |
| clarkb | I suspect most of the groups that have had these problems with docker hub have already reached out | 18:44 |
| fungi | for now definitely ask in #opendev or attend weekly meetings | 18:44 |
| clarkb | we've talked to an umber of people already | 18:44 |
| gouthamr | ++ | 18:44 |
| fungi | it's still definitely evolving | 18:45 |
| gouthamr | thank you for working on this; hoping the job instability subsides over time with this | 18:45 |
| gouthamr | anything else to share wrt this AI? | 18:45 |
| fungi | not from me | 18:46 |
| clarkb | nor me | 18:46 |
| gouthamr | ty | 18:46 |
| gouthamr | next one: Review/merge the eventlet goal proposal | 18:46 |
| gouthamr | this was done \o/ | 18:46 |
| * gouthamr hopes the actual migration is just as easy | 18:47 | |
| gouthamr | /jk | 18:47 |
| gouthamr | next one, next steps for reactivating the Freezer project | 18:47 |
| noonedeadpunk | so I'm having an issue with launchpad right now | 18:48 |
| gouthamr | noonedeadpunk: i'm looking for more reviews on the retirement of freezer-dr | 18:48 |
| noonedeadpunk | there was a ML some time ago https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/message/7PD7TVDLSHVXL7O7HFDVQXAZVW2EUV4G/ | 18:48 |
| noonedeadpunk | aha | 18:48 |
| noonedeadpunk | ok, that is needed as well | 18:48 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/938183 (Retire Freezer DR) | 18:48 |
| noonedeadpunk | but actually it's also realted | 18:48 |
| noonedeadpunk | as I wanted to move from storyboard to launchpad, which requires governance patch | 18:49 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/938938/ (Remove Freezer from inactive state) | 18:49 |
| gouthamr | ah, sure | 18:49 |
| noonedeadpunk | but was wondering if I should push governance patch before we recover access to launchpad, or we can do in parallel? | 18:49 |
| gmann | I think it was to allow freezer release for 2025.1 even it is inactive till m-2 of this release | 18:49 |
| noonedeadpunk | As I don't expect any reply to ML | 18:49 |
| gmann | and resolution to do that? | 18:49 |
| noonedeadpunk | that yes - I will push tomorrow morning first thing | 18:49 |
| gmann | noonedeadpunk: I think LP things can be setup in parallel | 18:50 |
| noonedeadpunk | as I guess we'd need LP admins to intervene | 18:50 |
| gmann | noonedeadpunk: I can do that. we can discuss after meeting | 18:50 |
| noonedeadpunk | ++ | 18:50 |
| fungi | unless you want to create a new openstack-freezer project on lp instead of reusing the old freezer project there | 18:51 |
| gouthamr | noonedeadpunk: this can be used as an example: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/819336 | 18:51 |
| noonedeadpunk | gouthamr: thanks! | 18:52 |
| fungi | but yes, the lp admins would be the next point of escalation if the old driver/maintainer group admins aren't responsive | 18:52 |
| gouthamr | and maybe Billy Olsen can put in a word again, to expedite | 18:52 |
| gouthamr | ty for working on this noonedeadpunk, anything else for this AI? | 18:53 |
| noonedeadpunk | I wonder if we should generaly go through launchpad projects and see if openstack-admins is present everywhere | 18:53 |
| gouthamr | YES | 18:53 |
| noonedeadpunk | as at scale this somehow becomes weird | 18:53 |
| gouthamr | i thought to do this in my copius free time, just slacking at the moment :/ | 18:53 |
| noonedeadpunk | we I had pretty same issue with OSA as well back in the days, except there were quite some active ppl around... | 18:54 |
| noonedeadpunk | (as admins) | 18:54 |
| fungi | the incubation workflow effectively created this problem, since project initiators were encouraged to set up things in lp and then would forget to switch maintainership over to openstack later once accepted | 18:54 |
| noonedeadpunk | (but not active as core reviewers anymore) | 18:55 |
| gouthamr | fungi: true, we required individuals to own the teams iirc | 18:55 |
| noonedeadpunk | maybe we can set our process to check for this | 18:55 |
| noonedeadpunk | (not sure if there's gonna be any more new projects though) | 18:55 |
| noonedeadpunk | but it is extremely fair note about root cause | 18:56 |
| * gouthamr woah we're at :56?! | 18:56 | |
| spotz[m] | good convos today! | 18:57 |
| gouthamr | this has been a great discussion so far - we're catching up on AIs, that's always productive | 18:57 |
| gouthamr | we have one other topic | 18:57 |
| gouthamr | besides the regular checks | 18:57 |
| gouthamr | lets get into that: | 18:57 |
| gouthamr | #topic DPL model reset (gmann) | 18:57 |
| gouthamr | #link https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/thread/SKLDVCTLO2UBGWXJTRB7VTJHBODJBPOB/ | 18:57 |
| gmann | not sure we have enough time to discuss it but | 18:58 |
| gmann | we have 5 project in DPL model and freezer already opted in for DPL so 4 remaining. | 18:58 |
| gmann | we need to take decision on those before election nomination start date which is Feb 5 | 18:58 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/hashtag:%22dpl-reset%22+(status:open%20OR%20status:merged) | 18:59 |
| gmann | as per process they need to move to PTL model and goes for election if project team does not opt-in explicitly to continue the DPL mdoel for next cycle | 18:59 |
| bauzas | do we have any feedback from the communities ? only watcher did afaicr | 18:59 |
| fungi | it occurs to me that there's no "governance liaison" in dpl, so it's unclear whose responsibility it is to propose the renewal change | 19:00 |
| gmann | yeah, freezer and watcher (not all liaison ) responded | 19:00 |
| bauzas | I quite appreciate the fact that DPL doesn't span over multiple releases | 19:00 |
| bauzas | every release, there is a need to opt into it | 19:00 |
| gmann | fungi: we have TC liaison there who will reset the leadership and all liaison can -1 there to continue iut | 19:00 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/hashtag:%22dpl-reset%22+(status:open+OR+status:merged+OR+status:abandoned) | 19:00 |
| gouthamr | we're at the hour.. gmann can we bump that email sometime this week? | 19:01 |
| gmann | bauzas: we discussed it to do every 2 cycle but we agreed to be every cycle | 19:01 |
| gmann | gouthamr: sure, i can do today | 19:01 |
| gouthamr | thank you.. | 19:01 |
| bauzas | ++ | 19:01 |
| gouthamr | we don't have time for open discussion today | 19:01 |
| gouthamr | but that's the after party post this meeting | 19:01 |
| gouthamr | thank you all for attending | 19:02 |
| gouthamr | and for the discussion! | 19:02 |
| gouthamr | #endmeeting | 19:02 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Tue Jan 21 19:02:17 2025 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:02 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2025/tc.2025-01-21-18.00.html | 19:02 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2025/tc.2025-01-21-18.00.txt | 19:02 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2025/tc.2025-01-21-18.00.log.html | 19:02 |
| spotz[m] | Thanks all! | 19:02 |
| gmann | thanks everyone | 19:02 |
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