| noonedeadpunk | jonathanspw: hey! we've started trying to add Alma jobs to our CI and faced one thing with OVS packaging: https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-ansible/+/969021 | 08:54 |
|---|---|---|
| noonedeadpunk | it seems, that you have some different packaging variants for v2, and centos-release-nfv-openvswitch package has no tag, and dnf can't find candidate when run on x86-64-v2 hardware? | 08:55 |
| noonedeadpunk | I am not completely sure here, but that what it looks like.... | 08:56 |
| noonedeadpunk | maybe I am missing some trick? | 08:56 |
| opendevreview | Kees Meijs proposed openstack/governance master: Alter public cloud SIG chair https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/969371 | 09:42 |
| bauzas | gouthamr: I'm on a week-long pro-trip in Brno packed with meetings all days, can't attend today's TC meeting ;( | 10:15 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/election master: Update TC liaison for the 2026.2 election https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/election/+/964733 | 10:20 |
| clarkb | noonedeadpunk: I don't think alma is rebuilding all packages for -v2, but also centos-release-nfv-openvswitch implies the pacakge comes from centos which doesn't do v2 at all? | 15:03 |
| fungi | yeah, maybe alma isn't actually building ovs at all, so the request would be for them to add it (and any other important openstack dependencies)? | 15:04 |
| noonedeadpunk | yeah, it does not | 15:04 |
| noonedeadpunk | but I could misunderstand smth as well | 15:05 |
| * noonedeadpunk not running EL on production since CentOS 7 | 15:05 | |
| fungi | there's a proposed change ( https://review.opendev.org/970042 ) to switch to doing only v3 testing on alma, but that would basically eliminate most of the point of us testing on alma vs rocky | 15:05 |
| noonedeadpunk | right | 15:07 |
| noonedeadpunk | Being it able to deal with old hardware was a huge point to get it in | 15:08 |
| noonedeadpunk | and make Alma do most of heavy lifting... | 15:08 |
| clarkb | yes my personal preference at this point would be to avoid redundancy among all the EL variants people seemt o care about if we can. It results in overhead for the opendev team through the need to care and feed for more image builds, potentially more mirror content (though not currently for those iirc), more image builds (projects run 3x the number of jobs for example for very | 15:09 |
| clarkb | similar coverage). This seemed worthwhile if it gave us a platform that was more flexible on the hardware resources available to us, but if we're giving up on that approach then it would be good to articulate what the goal is now and determine what if anything we should change | 15:09 |
| clarkb | er that second more image builds was supposed to be more ci job builds | 15:10 |
| noonedeadpunk | Well, they are not really the same from what I've learned :D | 15:17 |
| noonedeadpunk | and totally not CentOS with Rocky / Alma | 15:17 |
| clarkb | yes, but is the delta sufficiently valuable to triple our workload (the number can actually be higher when you start thinking about different architectures) | 15:17 |
| noonedeadpunk | but indeed - it makes sense to have one distro running more jobs, while otheres maybe just reference or smth way more lightweight | 15:18 |
| fungi | we already dropped openeuler, which was somewhat redundant with those | 15:19 |
| clarkb | a semi constant battle I'm fighting is removing old test platforms. I basically get no help or assistance on that and the end result is OpenDev just rug pulls on projects because the projects aren't cleaning up after themselves | 15:19 |
| clarkb | but even then each one of these additional distros represents work that historically I am personally responsible for about 95% of | 15:19 |
| clarkb | we're currently going through that with bionic and its looking like we're just going to break a buncho f stuff when zuul drops support for python 3.6 | 15:20 |
| clarkb | so my request on the front end here is that we add things that we believe add intentional value. I was under the impression the intentional value Alma adds is support for older hardware | 15:21 |
| clarkb | looking at it from that angle couldn't you test alma with linux bridge? Then if you're using the same centos package on rocky that you would on alma isn't ovs coverage on rocky sufficient? | 15:26 |
| clarkb | alternatively, show up and take more of this burden off of the opendev team so that we don't have to push back out of fear that we're getting saddled with tech debt no one will care about in 2 years | 15:35 |
| clarkb | bionic cleanup needs to be done right now and is a great place to start | 15:35 |
| noonedeadpunk | > couldn't you test alma with linux bridge - linux bridge was dropped from Neutron for Epoxy | 15:37 |
| noonedeadpunk | so 2024.2 is the last release where linux bridge was available | 15:37 |
| clarkb | that seems unfortunate if the pacakging for ovs on EL is a random centos thing. But I guess that ship has sailed | 15:38 |
| noonedeadpunk | well, derrivatives may attempt to establish some SIGs to make it more compatible... | 15:39 |
| noonedeadpunk | But indeed, I'm not sure we can do anything about it | 15:39 |
| clarkb | https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-zuul-jobs/+/965402 this is where I hit a road block on bionic cleanup. Monasca is using a bunch of bionic so zuul won't let me delete things without force merging. Monasca is dead but was not cleaned up properly by openstack | 15:42 |
| clarkb | oh cool a recheck shows maybe monasca cleanup did finally happen | 15:43 |
| clarkb | now group based policy is the problem. Which isn't in openstack (anymore?). I think that is a symptom of a similar problem. We basically leave things to die on the vine and opendev has to clean up at some point in the future | 15:43 |
| fungi | yeah, i approved the monasca cleanup change late yesterday | 15:44 |
| fungi | ah, no i didn't, it still needs a second review on https://review.opendev.org/970193 | 15:45 |
| clarkb | how topical :) I've approved it | 15:46 |
| * gouthamr was late on that patch by a week, apologies | 15:46 | |
| clarkb | gouthamr: I think my concern is less about the delay in the specific changes and the delay in deciding to evict it and clean it up | 15:47 |
| clarkb | the longer we delay these actions the more the work falls on those of us working across the community rather than those directly involved in the specific item | 15:47 |
| clarkb | ideally they would hang up the closed sign and lock the doors on their way out so that we don't have to | 15:47 |
| fungi | we did, as a commnuity, give the people who kept saying they were going to work on it too many chances before giving up on hollow promises | 15:48 |
| fungi | it was a learning experience, hopefully | 15:48 |
| clarkb | to put 965402 in perspective these are jobs that were converted from zuulv2 | 15:56 |
| clarkb | you can probably draw a direct line from their zuul config today to jjb and jenkins | 15:56 |
| fungi | looks like the x/group-based-policy.* repos are still using legacy jobs | 15:59 |
| gouthamr | oh, actively maintained by the looks of this. it shouldn’t be terribly hard to port those jobs - lots of prior art to follow | 16:21 |
| gouthamr | but, because it’s not in the OpenStack namespace, we’d have to reach out to the maintainers directly | 16:22 |
| gouthamr | tc-members: a gentle reminder that this week’s meeting will happen here in ~38 minutes | 16:22 |
| gouthamr | the agenda is here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 16:23 |
| clarkb | ya at this point I'm not sure openstack is on the hook but I think group based policy was an openstack project when the zuul v2 -> v3 transition happened and could've been better about paying down the debt then | 16:25 |
| mnasiadka | clarkb: Alma in my opinion should instantiate something like the CentOS NFV SIG and rebuild RHEL FDP (or CentOS NFV SIG) packages with a v2 twist | 16:28 |
| mnasiadka | The whole idea behind Alma support in OpenDev was using it for v2 nodes | 16:29 |
| fungi | seems like we're all on the same page. some -1 votes on https://review.opendev.org/970042 would help | 16:32 |
| mnasiadka | fungi: just did that | 16:36 |
| mnasiadka | I’m just curious how devstack works on Alma 10 v2 - does it rebuild openvswitch? | 16:37 |
| mnasiadka | https://zuul.opendev.org/t/openstack/build/f94cc1d8952245fdab282ad071c0b2ea/log/job-output.txt#8902 | 16:40 |
| mnasiadka | Seems it’s getting installed from RDO | 16:40 |
| mnasiadka | Ah, that got booted in raxflex, maybe just pure luck | 16:42 |
| fungi | yeah, basically it's failing in some clouds, which prompted the proposed change to eliminate the failures by scoping the nodes to only providers where that job will succeed | 16:44 |
| fungi | seems to me like the job is working quite well. it's identified at least one missing piece for being able to run openstack on v2 hardware with alma | 16:45 |
| mnasiadka | In devstack we can force Alma job to compile OVS and OVN from source - which should do the trick | 16:46 |
| mnasiadka | But that’s not something the deployment projects should force on people | 16:46 |
| fungi | right | 16:46 |
| mnasiadka | jonathanspw: ^^ that thread might interest you | 16:47 |
| mnasiadka | fungi: But I assume since Alma community has been interested to be supported by OpenStack - now it’s time to throw the ball in their court | 16:48 |
| fungi | exactly. with whatever help and cooperation we can muster too, of course | 16:48 |
| gouthamr | ! | 17:02 |
| gouthamr | #startmeeting tc | 17:02 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Tue Dec 9 17:02:40 2025 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gouthamr. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:02 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:02 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 17:02 |
| gouthamr | Welcome to the weekly meeting of the OpenStack Technical Committee. A reminder that this meeting is held under the OpenInfra Code of Conduct available at https://openinfra.dev/legal/code-of-conduct. | 17:03 |
| gouthamr | Today's meeting agenda can be found at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 17:03 |
| gouthamr | #topic Roll Call | 17:03 |
| gtema | o/ | 17:03 |
| cardoe | o/ | 17:03 |
| mnasiadka | O/ | 17:03 |
| frickler | \o | 17:03 |
| spotz[m] | o/ | 17:03 |
| noonedeadpunk | o/ | 17:03 |
| gouthamr | noted absence: b a u z a s, t o n y b | 17:04 |
| gouthamr | perfect, lets get started | 17:04 |
| gouthamr | #topic Last Week's AIs | 17:04 |
| gouthamr | i had an AI regarding the FIPS goal proposal.. | 17:06 |
| gouthamr | i haven't gotten back to it, i was trying to reach out to folks downstream to get some attention on the change as well | 17:06 |
| gouthamr | and the only other AI i see is updating the Technical Vision doc - think we can discuss that some more during this meeting | 17:07 |
| gouthamr | besides this, i was continuing the cleanup for monasca repos - there was some work to be done in project-config, releases, openstack-manuals etc | 17:08 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/hashtag:%22monasca-retirement%22+status:open | 17:09 |
| gouthamr | ^ those are the patches that are left, if you have review privs, please do help with these | 17:09 |
| * gouthamr needs to do similar things for "governance-sigs" | 17:10 | |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/hashtag:%22gazpacho-sigs%22+(status:open%20OR%20status:merged) | 17:11 |
| gouthamr | this one has one open patch: | 17:12 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance-website/+/967239 | 17:12 |
| gouthamr | this governance-website is managed by the TC, so could you please look and merge if it makes sense? | 17:12 |
| gouthamr | oh wait, two open patches: this one too: | 17:13 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance-website/+/967238/ | 17:13 |
| gouthamr | that's all the AIs i was tracking.. anything else from anyone else? | 17:13 |
| gouthamr | lets move to the only non-regular topic we have today: | 17:16 |
| gouthamr | #topic Approaches to making big changes | 17:16 |
| gouthamr | #link https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/thread/ZBBNBDASNXQUS74LZRCSISYNANJR7A35/ | 17:16 |
| gouthamr | during the discussion last week, we took a note to update the Technical Vision and specifically incorporate how it is meant to evolve; i thought i could noodle on this a bit, and review this together with clarkb and the rest of the TC - would probably be a WIP until the holidays are past us.. | 17:18 |
| gouthamr | we haven't concluded the discussion on this though.. are there any other AIs we can take besides incorporating changes to the Technical Vision? | 17:19 |
| clarkb | seemed like the rough idea was to update the vision document first and let that guide any other potential updates | 17:20 |
| clarkb | (basically to say the vision isn't the only work item but the starting point) | 17:20 |
| gouthamr | trie | 17:20 |
| gouthamr | true* | 17:20 |
| mnasiadka | I’m sort of afraid to ask that - but do we have a volunteer to start that first patch to the vision document? ;-) | 17:22 |
| spotz[m] | You!:) | 17:24 |
| clarkb | I mentioned last week I'd be happy to help review and possibly even draft things but I dont' think I can drive it | 17:24 |
| gouthamr | i assigned myself as the default backup scribe - but, this should be a collective brainstorm on gerrit and elsewhere (mailing list, irc channel, meetings) | 17:25 |
| gouthamr | so i can "drive" it, but, know that i will be making it _our_ problem to land :) | 17:27 |
| mnasiadka | Well, I’m with gouthamr on that - I can help driving it - but would prefer we have an etherpad with initial ideas and we collectively brainstorm on it | 17:28 |
| spotz[m] | That sounds like a good place to strart | 17:29 |
| gouthamr | sounds good mnasiadka | 17:29 |
| gouthamr | anything else regarding $topic? | 17:29 |
| gouthamr | #topic TC Tracker, PTG Follow up | 17:33 |
| gouthamr | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-2026.1-tracker (Technical Committee activity tracker - 2026.1) | 17:33 |
| gouthamr | the first item on this list coincidentally has an update posted in the past day: | 17:34 |
| gouthamr | #link https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/thread/GTPTFUPXXBDMWNQZGZDLM2IIX4FSTT5Y/ | 17:34 |
| gouthamr | ildikov sent that out to the ML, and there's a lot to digest there | 17:35 |
| gouthamr | i think we can pre-emptively schedule a follow up for this | 17:35 |
| gouthamr | we're actually past the deadline jimmymcarthur shared for the user survey - Dec 1st, sigh | 17:37 |
| gouthamr | for updating the user survey i think | 17:37 |
| spotz[m] | User Sruvey is open all the time, we might be able to still get a change in | 17:38 |
| gouthamr | ^ yes, possibly.. i don't know if project teams reached out either | 17:38 |
| gouthamr | i'll ask on the thread if we can push this out a couple of weeks past M-2, and have project teams and ourselves think about this | 17:39 |
| gouthamr | i guess the risk is the amount of time it takes to assemble the questions, response types etc | 17:39 |
| gouthamr | does any other topic on this tracker need to be discussed here today? | 17:41 |
| gouthamr | #topic A check on gate health | 17:43 |
| gouthamr | #link https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/thread/N24CYAJMLVJMAJMUE4RA5U7KOL7LABOW/ | 17:45 |
| gouthamr | ^ elodilles shared that unmaintained branches up until yoga will be eol'ed and deleted | 17:45 |
| fungi | i also suggested thinking hard about whether to keep zed around | 17:46 |
| spotz[m] | Do we specify it needs to be anywhere? | 17:47 |
| fungi | yoga was a "dress rehearsal" for slurp, so almost-slurp, making zed almost-not-slurp. we don't keep not-slurp branches around past end of maintenance | 17:47 |
| fungi | which makes a fairly strong case to drop zed when dropping yoga | 17:47 |
| spotz[m] | So I would lean towards not with you | 17:47 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/governance-website master: Fix link to SIGs https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance-website/+/967238 | 17:47 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/governance-website master: Rework the landing page https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance-website/+/967239 | 17:47 |
| JayF | So folks understanding of that email is that they planned to retire Yoga as well? I thought it was up to Yoga... | 17:48 |
| fungi | oh, maybe i misread, though my takeaway from the discussion in #openstack-release is that it's up through yoga, not up to but excluding yoga | 17:49 |
| spotz[m] | Sounds like we need clarification | 17:49 |
| frickler | well in general the question is still open, who volunteers to keep newer branches alive at all. afaict nobody is planning to ask that question yet or formalize the procedure for documenting it. formally when 2024.1 went eom, all older branches should have gotten retired unless someone cares for them | 17:50 |
| gouthamr | i am under the impression that elodilles (and others at his company) care, and so the recent transition of stable/2024.1 to unmaintained/2024.1 was done opt-in | 17:51 |
| gouthamr | or is that an incorrect assumption? | 17:52 |
| frickler | well it is an assumption, it would be good IMO if this would get documented somewhere. also which projects / repos are covered and which are not | 17:52 |
| gouthamr | hmm, i'll leave that question for elodilles to help with when he's around | 17:53 |
| gouthamr | its a concern yes, because even if we end up deleting these old branches, there's still ETOOMANY branches with uncertain purpose | 17:54 |
| gouthamr | any other gate concern to note? | 17:54 |
| gouthamr | a minor-ish one: | 17:55 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/devstack-plugin-ceph/+/965145 | 17:55 |
| gouthamr | ^ this is a routine update on the "default" version of ceph that's being tested with devstack jobs | 17:55 |
| gouthamr | ceph tentacle released last month, and we tested it with a bunch of openstack repos and pulled the trigger with this.. if you see issues, please let us know | 17:56 |
| gouthamr | us = devstack-qa, openstack storage project teams (cinder, manila, glance) - a whole bunch of people that jointly maintain that testing | 17:56 |
| noonedeadpunk | so there are ubuntu/debian repos already for it? | 17:57 |
| * noonedeadpunk needs to test it as well | 17:57 | |
| gouthamr | we don't use distro packages to setup ceph with devstack (except for components like nfs-ganesha) | 17:57 |
| fungi | and worth a quick mention, there's also the discussion in #openstack-tc earlier today about devstack jobs failing on alma nodes if they run in clouds without v3 processors, due to reusing existing rdo/centos packages for ovs | 17:58 |
| gouthamr | ^ ++ | 17:58 |
| gouthamr | the discussion headed towards seeking help from almalinux maintainers for this package? | 17:59 |
| fungi | yes, that was my take | 17:59 |
| gouthamr | ack, maybe spotz[m] can help bridge folks in case jonathanspw isn't actively watching.. ty for raising that! | 17:59 |
| gouthamr | we're at the hour.. | 18:00 |
| gouthamr | #topic Open Discussion | 18:00 |
| gouthamr | please add anything else you'd like to note in the minutes today | 18:00 |
| spotz[m] | I can poke, he might be out this week. | 18:00 |
| gouthamr | note that next week's meeting is at 0800 UTC | 18:00 |
| gouthamr | and will be chaired by mnasiadka | 18:00 |
| noonedeadpunk | ++ | 18:00 |
| gouthamr | ty spotz[m] | 18:00 |
| gouthamr | speaking of being out :) do folks anticipate being available on Dec 23rd and Dec 30th? | 18:01 |
| mnasiadka | Regarding devstack I raised https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/devstack/+/970281 that should help with the failing jobs, but won’t help with deployment projects AlmaLinux adoption :-) | 18:01 |
| gouthamr | that would work? o.O | 18:02 |
| mnasiadka | I don’t plan to be available on 23rd and 30th Dec - so I think it’s reasonable to cancel given the rest is already asleep ;-) | 18:02 |
| gouthamr | haha, okay.. any objections? | 18:03 |
| noonedeadpunk | ++ | 18:03 |
| noonedeadpunk | I can be around on 23rd, but 30th... eh. | 18:03 |
| gouthamr | i'll mail you some eggnog for 23rd | 18:03 |
| noonedeadpunk | but also I would not be expecting much progress or things to discuss for these... | 18:04 |
| gouthamr | #agreed the TC meetings on Dec 23rd and Dec 30th will be canceled, meetings will resume on Jan 6th 2026 | 18:04 |
| mnasiadka | gouthamr: It should work, devstack has code for building OVS and OVN from source | 18:04 |
| mnasiadka | Well the alma job is green already | 18:04 |
| gouthamr | neat mnasiadka, but hopefully the distro also packages so its consumable by end users and deployment projects | 18:05 |
| gouthamr | alright lets wrap it up here, | 18:05 |
| gouthamr | remember next week's meeting is at 0800 UTC, don't upset mnasiadka :P | 18:05 |
| gouthamr | #endmeeting | 18:05 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Tue Dec 9 18:05:46 2025 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:05 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2025/tc.2025-12-09-17.02.html | 18:05 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2025/tc.2025-12-09-17.02.txt | 18:05 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2025/tc.2025-12-09-17.02.log.html | 18:05 |
| spotz[m] | I'm out after this week, I'll be pingable just not guaranteeing an immediate response | 18:05 |
| gouthamr | ack, we're in lame-duck time of 2025 | 18:06 |
| fungi | i consider it the "i can actually get things done because nobody's interrupting me" time of the year | 18:07 |
| spotz[m] | hehe | 18:08 |
| opendevreview | Ivan Anfimov proposed openstack/openstack-manuals master: wip https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/970319 | 22:12 |
| opendevreview | Ivan Anfimov proposed openstack/openstack-manuals master: Installation Guide - Overview - add informaion supported releases https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/970319 | 22:17 |
| opendevreview | Ivan Anfimov proposed openstack/openstack-manuals master: Installation Guide - Overview and Environment - add informaion supported releases https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/970319 | 22:23 |
| opendevreview | Ivan Anfimov proposed openstack/openstack-manuals master: install-guide: Remove 2024.1 (Caracal) release https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/970324 | 22:26 |
| opendevreview | Ivan Anfimov proposed openstack/openstack-manuals master: install-guide: Remove 2024.1 (Caracal) release https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/970324 | 22:26 |
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