| mnasiadka | tc-members: another small reminder that we have meeting here in ~20 minutes | 07:40 |
|---|---|---|
| mnasiadka | #startmeeting tc | 08:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Tue Dec 16 08:00:23 2025 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mnasiadka. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 08:00 |
| mnasiadka | Welcome to the weekly meeting of the OpenStack Technical Committee. A reminder that this meeting is held under the OpenInfra Code of Conduct available at https://openinfra.dev/legal/code-of-conduct. | 08:00 |
| mnasiadka | Today's meeting agenda can be found at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 08:00 |
| mnasiadka | #topic Roll Call | 08:00 |
| mnasiadka | O/ | 08:00 |
| gtema | o/ | 08:01 |
| mnasiadka | courtesy-ping: noonedeadpunk, tonyb, frickler, bauzas | 08:01 |
| gtema | Let's go back sleeping | 08:04 |
| mnasiadka | It seems like it’s the best approach | 08:04 |
| mnasiadka | I think we’re too deep in the xmas season :) | 08:04 |
| mnasiadka | And it makes no sense to run the meeting for just the two of us | 08:05 |
| gtema | not sure. Also last times it wasn't so much better | 08:05 |
| gtema | right, end the meeting and lets get back to real work | 08:05 |
| mnasiadka | #endmeeting | 08:05 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Tue Dec 16 08:05:48 2025 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:05 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2025/tc.2025-12-16-08.00.html | 08:05 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2025/tc.2025-12-16-08.00.txt | 08:05 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2025/tc.2025-12-16-08.00.log.html | 08:05 |
| mnasiadka | gtema: Thanks for showing up though :) | 08:05 |
| gtema | no problem | 08:06 |
| frickler | ah, I'm around, was just distracted. doesn't look like it would have mattered much, though :-/ | 08:10 |
| tonyb | gah, sorry I was finishing dinner | 08:12 |
| tonyb | oh well | 08:13 |
| bauzas | here, sorry | 08:50 |
| mnasiadka | Do we need to move the meeting one hour later? :D | 08:58 |
| noonedeadpunk | sorry :( | 09:01 |
| noonedeadpunk | Well, moving hour later jeopardize intent to be more friendly for our Asia community | 09:02 |
| noonedeadpunk | I _usually_ around at the time, but it's indeed quite xmass season... | 09:03 |
| ralonsoh | hi folks, I hope this is the correct place. We had plans to move neutron-dynamic-routing to x/ namespace. But I saw https://github.com/openstack/project-config/commit/9f75ef1ed62c2e1a75fd4d2270f339022b2a950d | 09:19 |
| ralonsoh | how do we move out a project that is not actively maintained? | 09:19 |
| ralonsoh | slaweq, ^ just as a heads-up | 09:26 |
| frickler | ralonsoh: it would need a new namespace, like maybe neutron-contrib/neutron-dynamic-routing. also I'm still trying to find time to keep n-d-r active like I did for the last >5 years | 10:18 |
| frickler | finally, I'm not sure whether "moving out of openstack" is still allowed. possibly the sequence would be retirement and setting up a fork | 10:19 |
| ralonsoh | frickler, I know, we are just being cautious about the status of the project, as commented in previous Neutron meetings | 10:20 |
| frickler | yes, the latter was more of a comment for fellow tc members | 10:21 |
| opendevreview | Stephen Finucane proposed openstack/governance master: Move keystoneauth under OpenStackSDK governance https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/971178 | 12:35 |
| frickler | it there a real reason we still keep severely outdated docs around like https://docs.openstack.org/mitaka/install-guide-obs/keystone-services.html (seen referenced in the keystone channel right now). I think it would be much more sensible to even have suchs URLs just return 404s | 13:12 |
| fungi | frickler: ralonsoh: regarding "moving out of openstack" the process is to retire the current repository and then fork it, per https://governance.openstack.org/tc/resolutions/20190711-mandatory-repository-retirement.html | 13:30 |
| ralonsoh | fungi, yeah, for now we don't want this | 13:32 |
| frickler | thx for refreshing my vague memory with the proper reference :) | 13:32 |
| ralonsoh | we would maybe, after the future debugging to be done, to follow the "Deprecating a Repository" path (https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/repository.html#deprecating-a-repository) | 13:33 |
| sean-k-mooney | frickler: i think not alot of folks in the core team have op or rememebr how to use it | 15:22 |
| sean-k-mooney | frickler: so it could just eb a case fo no one updated the channel topic | 15:22 |
| sean-k-mooney | obs is that suse? | 15:22 |
| sean-k-mooney | the mitaka part is proably more problematic | 15:23 |
| sean-k-mooney | that docs is from before we moved the install gudies in tree | 15:24 |
| sean-k-mooney | https://docs.openstack.org/keystone/latest/install/ would be the correct new location although im not sure why you would want to link to that in the channle vs say https://docs.openstack.org/keystone/latest/contributor/index.html | 15:24 |
| frickler | sean-k-mooney: I was not talking about the channel topic, someone was asking a question and referenced that URL, seemingly not aware of how outdated that doc is | 15:39 |
| sean-k-mooney | oh ok | 15:40 |
| frickler | so sorry if I was not clear with my wording, I'm also not talking about that specific page, but I would want to delete all mitaka docs, likely at least everything older than victoria | 15:40 |
| clarkb | we haven't deleted docs because people run old clouds | 16:32 |
| clarkb | the problem is that we need to convince the search engines (and now the LLMs) to produce results from modern documetnation first | 16:32 |
| clarkb | there are tools to do that, but I'm not sure anyone has taken a look at implementing them for openstack docs | 16:33 |
| frickler | exactly, nobody has time or knowledge to implement a better solution, so my question is: do the benefits of providing severely outdated docs still outweigh the drawbacks? my answer is: no | 17:24 |
| frickler | we could also create a tarball archive of mitaka for anyone to download and browse locally if they are really so desperate | 17:24 |
| clarkb | I guess I'm indifferent, but wanted to call out there is a solution that doesn't involve deleting data if people want to add canonical ref tags to the up to date docs (and there are probably other approaches too) | 17:38 |
| sean-k-mooney | frickler: the fact we used to delete the docs and now dont was rasied as a good thing in the last operator sig meetup | 17:54 |
| sean-k-mooney | https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/openstack_ops_radiohour#L97 | 17:55 |
| sean-k-mooney | that dicsusion started at the very end of the ops radio hour https://youtu.be/xmWSQ_h3YAk?si=d-nwZVv4Gr4KaTmQ&t=2909 | 17:56 |
| sean-k-mooney | so yes ideally the SEO woudl point ot latest and we woudl ahve a banner on the old docs to notify folks that its an old release | 17:57 |
| frickler | all good ideas, but not new, and afaict nobody has actually implemented anything in that regard for years | 18:05 |
| sean-k-mooney | well that woudl be part of openstack docs theme | 18:05 |
| frickler | which is severely unmaintained | 18:06 |
| sean-k-mooney | i tought in newer releases we had the ablity to add a banner but i have not looked at it in any detail | 18:06 |
| sean-k-mooney | one thing we could do it move the older repos to a diffent subdomain | 18:09 |
| sean-k-mooney | i.e. archive.docs.openstack.org | 18:09 |
| sean-k-mooney | im not entirly sure if that would help with the SEO problem but it might | 18:10 |
| fungi | probably doesn't, no | 18:12 |
| clarkb | I think the reason old docs get bumped up is that they are linked to more heavily | 18:13 |
| frickler | https://severely-outdated-docs.openstack.org might at least give a slight indication to people who actually look at the URL ;) | 18:14 |
| fungi | adding something like <link rel="canonical" href="..."> might help persuade search engines to index the later versions, could be injected into headers by apache based on certain url pattern matches too | 18:17 |
| fungi | unfortunately, going back and re-building the old versions of docs to add anything could be a lot of work | 18:18 |
| fungi | so openstackdocstheme probably doesn't provide a good enough time machine for fixing past mistakes | 18:19 |
| sean-k-mooney | i assume https://insights.linuxfoundation.org/project/OpenStack? is going to get populated between now an january | 19:50 |
| sean-k-mooney | do we know if it will have the historical data or just new contibutions? | 19:50 |
| clarkb | sean-k-mooney: if you look at zuul and starlingx (which also use opendev's gerrit) they pulled in historical data | 19:51 |
| clarkb | I believe the expectation is that they will do the same for openstack | 19:51 |
| sean-k-mooney | looks empty to me https://insights.linuxfoundation.org/project/zuul | 19:51 |
| sean-k-mooney | do we ned to log in | 19:51 |
| clarkb | oh huh did they unset zuul for some reason? | 19:52 |
| sean-k-mooney | it also loosk liek we cant use our openinfra openid account and ned an linux foundaiton account | 19:53 |
| clarkb | I don't think you need to log in to see data generally. And yes if you do login the account is an lf account | 19:53 |
| fungi | sean-k-mooney: the e-mail was supposed to say that it's still a work in progress and incomplete for the moment | 19:54 |
| sean-k-mooney | ack, which is seperate form joining the foundation again after the openstack foundaiton became a sub foundation fo the linux foundation | 19:57 |
| fungi | for now, affiliation information will need to be entered separately into lfx (for insights contributor activity tracking) and openinfra.org (for elections and such) | 19:58 |
| fungi | the two aren't linked in any way | 19:58 |
| sean-k-mooney | right im jsut makign rue i dint miss anytring i made sure that i was an "OIF Individual Member" | 19:58 |
| sean-k-mooney | as part of the change but i doent recall havign to create a linux foudnaiton acocount at the time | 19:58 |
| sean-k-mooney | so just confirmting that we have not previously needed to do that for anyting like the elections | 19:59 |
| sean-k-mooney | but cool i was just wondering what the dash boards looksed like | 19:59 |
| sean-k-mooney | i can add "create an lfid" to my todolist for next year | 20:00 |
| clarkb | you may already have one if you've submitted to any lf conferences | 20:00 |
| clarkb | I think the cfp system uses the same account (but I'm not certain of that) | 20:00 |
| sean-k-mooney | i dont think i have btu i can check | 20:01 |
| sean-k-mooney | if i do the login will either be in bitwarden or lost to the sands of time | 20:01 |
| ildikov | sean-k-mooney: the LFX Insights team is still working on the dashboard for OpenStack and the other projects | 20:02 |
| sean-k-mooney | ildikov: no rush i was just nosey | 20:03 |
| sean-k-mooney | i assume it will be something like https://insights.linuxfoundation.org/project/k8s | 20:03 |
| ildikov | sean-k-mooney: the main reason is that majority of the project dashboards on the platform are displaying data that is coming primarily from GitHub, and therefore they have some more work to better accommodate projects with Gerrit as a data source | 20:04 |
| sean-k-mooney | right i imagin getting the review stats and such will be new for them on the gerrit side | 20:05 |
| ildikov | sean-k-mooney: yes, it should be similar to the Kubernetes dashboard, depending on the availability of certain data points. For example, the K8s dashboards lists GH stars, which will not be a data point for OpenStack due the source of data being Gerrit and git. | 20:05 |
| sean-k-mooney | ya the mirros do have stars but its not really a data souce that i think applies sinc ehta tis more for project to tack adoption outside of there ecosystem | 20:06 |
| ildikov | sean-k-mooney: yes, they will add review stats, and will also not rely on the 'pull request' terminology | 20:07 |
| ildikov | in an early iteration they did pull in data from GitHub, but it made the data set rather confusing in many areas | 20:08 |
| ildikov | so we're working with them to have the Gerrit stats available | 20:09 |
| sean-k-mooney | i wonder where we will land in the "Codebase size" leader board | 20:09 |
| sean-k-mooney | well ill be sure to check back in the new year its looks pretty responsive over all | 20:13 |
| fungi | to be fair, it's something we get for ~free vs something the foundation needed to pay for | 20:13 |
| sean-k-mooney | yep thats also a plus | 20:14 |
| ildikov | sean-k-mooney: thank you for checking out the dashboard! | 20:42 |
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