| mnasiadka | spotz[m]: There are questions in the Scientific SIG (and in the mail thread on ML) if the RDO community has enough contributors to maintain old releases like Caracal or Epoxy and should they expect there will be updated packages if a CVE is uncovered? I think a simple message on the RDO main page would be extremely helpful. Sorry to add to your plate :-) | 05:13 |
|---|---|---|
| opendevreview | Stephen Finucane proposed openstack/governance master: Retire requestsexceptions https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/979815 | 11:55 |
| spotz[m] | So some folks might be stepping up to help, I spoke with folks from both Alma and Rocky this weekend and they don't have the resources either. I'll see what I can do about getting an update added to the page. I sent the email out before I left for SCale and just got back and I leave next week for Kubecon. I think there will be an email from someone on the engineering side to answer some questions going out shortly as I honestly can't | 14:14 |
| spotz[m] | answer them. | 14:14 |
| spotz[m] | I'm doing everything I can to help, y'all know that | 14:16 |
| mnasiadka | spotz[m]: Thank you - I was just relying messages :) | 15:03 |
| spotz[m] | I know:) | 15:03 |
| gouthamr | tc-members: a gentle reminder that the weekly IRC meeting will be held here in ~50 minutes | 16:11 |
| gouthamr | the agenda is here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee#Next_Meeting | 16:12 |
| gouthamr | #startmeeting tc | 17:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Tue Mar 10 17:00:32 2026 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gouthamr. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 17:00 |
| gouthamr | Welcome to the weekly meeting of the OpenStack Technical Committee. A reminder that this meeting is held under the OpenInfra Code of Conduct available at https://openinfra.dev/legal/code-of-conduct. | 17:00 |
| gouthamr | Today's meeting agenda can be found at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 17:00 |
| gouthamr | #topic Roll Call | 17:00 |
| dansmith | o/ | 17:01 |
| frickler | \o | 17:01 |
| bauzas | o/ (fried but here) | 17:01 |
| gouthamr | courtesy-ping: noonedeadpunk, spotz[m], cardoe, mnasiadka | 17:02 |
| cardoe | o/ | 17:02 |
| gouthamr | noted absence: t o n y b | 17:02 |
| mnasiadka | O/ | 17:02 |
| noonedeadpunk | o/ | 17:02 |
| spotz[m] | o/ | 17:03 |
| gouthamr | great, that's everyone.. let's get started | 17:03 |
| gouthamr | #topic Last Week's AIs | 17:04 |
| gouthamr | we took an AI around process - we'll talk about chair/vice-chair/liaisons today | 17:04 |
| gouthamr | here's the poll to pick a time for this meeting: | 17:05 |
| gouthamr | #link https://rallly.co/invite/FCz849xYhriU (Poll for TC meeting - 2026.2) | 17:05 |
| gouthamr | this is somewhat suitable for the western hemisphere.. | 17:06 |
| noonedeadpunk | um... how to set the timezone to utc in there... | 17:06 |
| gouthamr | i enabled an option to see it in your timezone :D is that confusing? | 17:06 |
| noonedeadpunk | it really is | 17:06 |
| bauzas | oh, timings are in local TZ ? | 17:07 |
| noonedeadpunk | especially given that there's a saving time incoming | 17:07 |
| gouthamr | sigh, sorry - i can fix that | 17:07 |
| bauzas | so I need to calculate it correctly then (europeans have daylight savings only in 2 weeks) | 17:07 |
| noonedeadpunk | but also all other meetings I have I've converted to UTC, so some metal math is needed to acocunt for that and daylight saiving | 17:07 |
| gouthamr | good stuff, hold off from taking this, i'll fix it in a little bit | 17:08 |
| bauzas | I'm used to count in UTC, even sheeps at night | 17:08 |
| fungi | keeping my computer's time set to utc helps trick annoying applications like that into using utc as my "local" time | 17:08 |
| noonedeadpunk | hehe | 17:08 |
| gouthamr | i wanted to gauge interest in continuing our alternate meeting | 17:09 |
| noonedeadpunk | it's weird then I can't select UTC from the list explicitly | 17:09 |
| noonedeadpunk | neither gmt+0 | 17:09 |
| spotz[m] | I'll admit I went with the later times as my mornings are already booked. I could do later on Friday but there's always the possibility I'm traveling or PTO on a Friday | 17:09 |
| bauzas | I have a specific no-Friday afternoons meetings hard policy that I usually enforce :) | 17:10 |
| mnasiadka | On Friday evenings my brain melts :) | 17:11 |
| mnasiadka | And I support what bauzas said :) | 17:11 |
| noonedeadpunk | ++ | 17:11 |
| spotz[m] | I save it for emergencies not scheduled regular meetings | 17:11 |
| gouthamr | we hosted an alternate meeting once every month at 0800 UTC.. | 17:11 |
| gouthamr | do we continue that? has it helped? | 17:12 |
| dansmith | any chance we could wait until after the DST chaos ends to pick a meeting time | 17:12 |
| spotz[m] | Oh true that, I already missed one meeting today | 17:12 |
| dansmith | because I've got a few others that conflict (like the one I'm on now) that might change during/after the DST flip | 17:12 |
| * noonedeadpunk constantly forget when the morning meeting actually happens | 17:13 | |
| gouthamr | dansmith: ^ we could; so i could move that poll to occur in the first week of April | 17:13 |
| bauzas | noonedeadpunk: if we don't change anything, next one will be next week | 17:13 |
| dansmith | gouthamr: just seems like the worst time to ask people what time is good for them :) (not your fault of course) | 17:14 |
| mnasiadka | gouthamr: I don’t believe it helps, and the person that we’ve done that for is mostly awol? | 17:14 |
| spotz[m] | He was in the board meeting this morning | 17:15 |
| gouthamr | i am unsure, i haven't attempted chatting with tonyb lately either.. i honestly hoped to pick up on reviews, chatter here and on the ML etc.. (hoping this ping will elicit a response during a decent time for him :D) | 17:15 |
| gouthamr | okay, any objections to keeping the Tuesday 1700 UTC meeting until April? this means that we meet next week at this time (NOT at 0800 UTC), and do the same on 24th and 31st of March | 17:17 |
| mnasiadka | And usually I have to remind everybody that this is the week we’re having a EU morning meeting :) | 17:17 |
| spotz[m] | +1 | 17:17 |
| mnasiadka | No objections from me and I’m happier because I don’t have to run the meeting :) | 17:17 |
| gouthamr | haha, easy questions | 17:18 |
| noonedeadpunk | +1 | 17:18 |
| dansmith | +1 | 17:18 |
| bauzas | let's keep the existing quorum for now | 17:18 |
| gouthamr | okay, hearing no objections, lets move to the next AIs | 17:18 |
| gouthamr | these were regarding leaderless teams | 17:18 |
| bauzas | (even if that means drinking beers during TC meetings after savings) | 17:19 |
| gouthamr | we can dive into them at detail in a bit, i've up-wip'ed most of the changes on gerrit | 17:19 |
| gouthamr | i'll guide them through merge conflicts when the election results are posted | 17:19 |
| gouthamr | the results are due in ~8 days 6 hours | 17:20 |
| gouthamr | #link https://governance.openstack.org/election/ | 17:20 |
| gouthamr | in the meantime, a reminder to review these open changes: | 17:21 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/hashtag:%222026.2-leaderless%22+(status:open%20OR%20status:merged) | 17:21 |
| gouthamr | barring any exceptions, these can merge after the results change merges - so please post any concerns you have on these patches | 17:22 |
| gouthamr | we have an AI from last week that needs a volunteer: initiating the retirement for venus, vitrage | 17:24 |
| gouthamr | would anyone like to take a shot at this? | 17:24 |
| noonedeadpunk | I can go with this process | 17:25 |
| gouthamr | ty noonedeadpunk | 17:25 |
| gouthamr | it's a careful song-and-dance, well documented | 17:26 |
| gouthamr | #link https://docs.opendev.org/opendev/infra-manual/latest/drivers.html#retiring-a-project | 17:26 |
| gouthamr | #undo | 17:26 |
| opendevmeet | Removing item from minutes: #link https://docs.opendev.org/opendev/infra-manual/latest/drivers.html#retiring-a-project | 17:26 |
| gouthamr | #link https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/repository.html (Retiring an OpenStack Repo) | 17:26 |
| noonedeadpunk | yup, thanks. I did that bunch of times already, but don't remember by heart | 17:27 |
| gouthamr | nice | 17:27 |
| gouthamr | some scope creep for you: fungi brought up additional pypi cleanup recently | 17:27 |
| noonedeadpunk | I think it's not automated? | 17:27 |
| gouthamr | they now have a way to tag packages as retired.. so that might be a good thing to follow for these | 17:27 |
| noonedeadpunk | and needs some manual archival process from ones who has an interactive access to pypi? | 17:28 |
| gouthamr | and take the learning to do that with all retired openstack packages from the past | 17:28 |
| gouthamr | yes | 17:28 |
| gouthamr | manual | 17:28 |
| fungi | there is (very recently) now an api for doing some package management on pypi, but i'm not sure if archival is supported by the api yet | 17:28 |
| fungi | they did add the ability to query collaborator types though | 17:29 |
| fungi | which i know would have helped a lot in earlier cleanup | 17:29 |
| gouthamr | ty.. alright, no other AIs that i can spot | 17:30 |
| gouthamr | any others that you were working on? | 17:30 |
| gouthamr | #topic Chair/Vice Chair and Liaisons | 17:31 |
| gouthamr | in the past week, we took an AI to add TC chair nominations.. | 17:32 |
| gouthamr | there was just one, and so no election is necessary.. | 17:32 |
| gouthamr | unless there are any objections, dissents? :) | 17:33 |
| spotz[m] | I'm good:) | 17:33 |
| gouthamr | ty for your confidence, please note that i, like past Chairs, have no desire to do this in perpetuity... except that i've energy to pick up some more for now | 17:35 |
| gouthamr | would anyone like to be vice-chair? | 17:35 |
| mnasiadka | I can continue if nobody wants to relieve me from that duty | 17:36 |
| gouthamr | ty very much mnasiadka | 17:36 |
| gouthamr | alright, you're it! i'll push up a patch after the meeting | 17:38 |
| gouthamr | next order of business, need to refresh VMT, Election and DPL liaisons | 17:38 |
| bauzas | I can continue to run as a VMT liaison | 17:39 |
| fungi | thanks bauzas! gouthamr will you be continuing on that too? | 17:39 |
| gouthamr | is anyone interested in these? | 17:39 |
| gouthamr | bauzas and I were VMT liaisons, tonyb was the last election liaison, and DPL liaisons are here: | 17:39 |
| gouthamr | #link https://opendev.org/openstack/governance/src/commit/057c04eb426d8e1c57fc7b195f81d5aa2da8ad59/reference/projects.yaml | 17:39 |
| gouthamr | sure can do fungi, i'd like to actually join the VMT though.. so i was going to ping JayF and you in case you need assistance | 17:40 |
| spotz[m] | I can do election | 17:40 |
| gouthamr | ty spotz[m]! | 17:40 |
| gouthamr | ty for volunteering again for the VMT, bauzas | 17:40 |
| fungi | gouthamr: even better. hit me up any time | 17:40 |
| JayF | We'll have to see if we have decoder rings and smoking jackets in your size ;) | 17:40 |
| gouthamr | haha | 17:40 |
| gouthamr | perfect, if any more liaison interest exists, please do chime in.. | 17:41 |
| gouthamr | #topic 2026.2 Election | 17:42 |
| gouthamr | last little bit of governance to-dos for today | 17:42 |
| gouthamr | i'll update | 17:43 |
| gouthamr | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/2026.2-leaderless | 17:43 |
| gouthamr | we're converging on a solution for adjutant, mistral, skyline, requirements and oslo | 17:44 |
| gouthamr | noonedeadpunk will initiate the retirement process for venus and vitrage | 17:44 |
| gouthamr | frickler will propose a resolution/charter change regarding reviewers being credited as contributors in our election process | 17:44 |
| gouthamr | noonedeadpunk: has there been any update to share on masakari? | 17:45 |
| noonedeadpunk | no, not really, I think there was not a meeting this week as it's bi-weekly | 17:45 |
| spotz[m] | Reviewers being included as contributer is a great addition! | 17:45 |
| gouthamr | ack noonedeadpunk | 17:46 |
| fungi | yeah, i'm hoping to work on the implementation for that in the election tooling very soon | 17:46 |
| gouthamr | ++ nice, ty fungi | 17:46 |
| bauzas | provided reviews are not gamified :) | 17:46 |
| fungi | bauzas: it's maintainer review activity specifically | 17:47 |
| fungi | so code-review +/-2 and workflow +1 | 17:47 |
| fungi | for the rare cases we hit in some projects where some core reviewer can't run as ptl because they were only reviewing/approving changes and didn't have any of their own merge | 17:48 |
| spotz[m] | I know that's where I spend a lot of my time so it's appreciated | 17:48 |
| bauzas | fungi: I missed the point then, if that only includes already recognized maintainers | 17:48 |
| bauzas | then I'm supportive without concerns | 17:48 |
| fungi | that was my takeaway from the discussion in last week's meeting, at least | 17:48 |
| bauzas | my attention dropped obviously then ;) | 17:49 |
| gouthamr | you're correct, but a resolution and discussion will reflect what we'd land on.. | 17:49 |
| fungi | yeah, obviously i wouldn't finalize any implementation in tooling until there's a resolution approved | 17:49 |
| gouthamr | think we're okay with the leaderless teams then, a good thing to wrap this up alongside elections! | 17:50 |
| gouthamr | anything else to note wrt $topic? | 17:50 |
| gouthamr | #topic A check on gate health | 17:51 |
| gouthamr | we're nearly at the RC1 deadline.. the theme at the tail end has been a bunch of fire fighting with breakages/regressions upstream of us.. | 17:53 |
| fungi | i think the latest disruption was the new tox release? | 17:53 |
| frickler | yes, we did some pinning https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-zuul-jobs/+/979118 | 17:53 |
| fungi | and then fixed the role that was using the old option to branch its behavior based on which tox version is in use (since old branches need the old syntax on tox v3) | 17:54 |
| frickler | also noonedeadpunk did https://review.opendev.org/c/zuul/zuul-jobs/+/979136 , still need to verify the pin can be reverted now | 17:55 |
| frickler | but in the longer run we might want to discuss moving away from tox | 17:56 |
| fungi | opendev's tools and upstream zuul happily switched to nox years ago, fwiw, instead of upgrading past tox v3 | 17:57 |
| fungi | but there was definitely a lot of work involved in making that switch, not wanting to downplay oit | 17:58 |
| fungi | it | 17:58 |
| clarkb | I think the primary benefit to that switch was that we continue to use standard packaging tools with nox. Whereas tox has reimplemented its own package build and install tooling | 17:58 |
| clarkb | (and some differences in interpretation of the spec have been found) | 17:58 |
| fungi | and nox vendors in a lot of the tools that it does reuse | 17:59 |
| fungi | er, tox i mean | 17:59 |
| fungi | which makes it harder to pin them | 17:59 |
| gouthamr | worth doing if we can coordinate it as a community goal perhaps | 18:00 |
| noonedeadpunk | from my humble usage of tox, I hardly faced real issues post 4 upgrade tbh | 18:00 |
| fungi | it would not be a painless transition | 18:00 |
| noonedeadpunk | but learning a new tool doing the same thing - not sure where it stands in list of priorities... | 18:01 |
| fungi | noonedeadpunk: right, in opendev and zuul we opted to put the effort into nox instead of tox v4, so there was some reduction in overall cost to the transition at that time | 18:01 |
| noonedeadpunk | we're running toxv4 in openstack everywhere now I guess | 18:01 |
| fungi | switching from current tox to nox is harder to justify | 18:01 |
| noonedeadpunk | to it's just cost | 18:01 |
| * gouthamr time check | 18:01 | |
| gouthamr | we're past the hour | 18:02 |
| gouthamr | do you want to note anything else in the minutes today? | 18:02 |
| bauzas | - | 18:03 |
| gouthamr | alright, lets wrap it up here.. ty all for participating | 18:03 |
| gouthamr | #endmeeting | 18:03 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Tue Mar 10 18:03:39 2026 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:03 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2026/tc.2026-03-10-17.00.html | 18:03 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2026/tc.2026-03-10-17.00.txt | 18:03 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2026/tc.2026-03-10-17.00.log.html | 18:03 |
| fungi | correcting myself wrt tox vendoring its dependencies, it doesn't seem to do that now but it does require and regularly bump the minimum version of a lot of things, particularly virtualenv which is where lots of problems tend to arise, but also libs like packaging, platformdirs, filelock, and the recently cursed chardet | 18:06 |
| fungi | and also fairly aggressively drops support for old python versions | 18:07 |
| mnasiadka | I’m not sure we can orchestrate a transition easily, it would need to be a community goal - or we can ,,just’’ sort of support both, if that’s an option. | 18:10 |
| noonedeadpunk | it kinda is, but that would bring quite some mess, imo | 18:13 |
| noonedeadpunk | and a headache for occasional contributors | 18:14 |
| clarkb | yes mixing things is probably worse because then you never know why something has broken | 18:18 |
| fungi | even just not fully cleaning up stale references to the old thing in random places is enough to confuse new contributors into trying to use the wrong now-broken thing | 18:21 |
| fungi | which wastes a lot of their time and can lead to an unpleasant turnoff experience | 18:22 |
| clarkb | that said I think it remains important to call out deficiencies in tools and that there are alternatives. It may be the case that tox (or nox or chardet or etc) make changes that are more painful to address than switching to the alternative | 18:22 |
| clarkb | I think it also helps provide feedback to the upstream. THough in the case of tox they have been not super receptive to the feedback on issues like the package building discrepency | 18:23 |
| clarkb | in that particular case they felt that they were spec compliant and that was the end of the story and didn't care that a different spec compliant tool allowed for some different behavior that was activeily used in the wild | 18:24 |
| sean-k-mooney | clarkb: fungi for what its worth proting from tox to nox is soemthign ai woudl likely be very good at. | 19:20 |
| sean-k-mooney | it woudl still need a lot of effort to do that and review it but less then it once might have | 19:20 |
| sean-k-mooney | also i suspect in many cases it woudl be pretty forulaic | 19:20 |
| fungi | well, ai or sed | 19:20 |
| fungi | they're both very similar though | 19:20 |
| fungi | i'm personally more familiar with sed, fwiw | 19:21 |
| clarkb | yes I think it can be largely mechanical. The main issue is likely all the special targets | 19:21 |
| clarkb | where doing a straight up replacement might want a bit more intelligence | 19:21 |
| sean-k-mooney | ya we do use tox wehre just or make would prorbly be more approtiate | 19:22 |
| JayF | if we did such a thing we could make minor improvements | 19:22 |
| JayF | e.g. the fact that it feels like 50% of lint targets are "lint" and the other 50% are "pep8" | 19:22 |
| JayF | not sure it's worth it generally, but if we added in more consistency cross project | 19:22 |
| * JayF loves a good scope creep | 19:22 | |
| sean-k-mooney | JayF: i think linter is actully the althernitive target name but yes that partly inconsitent | 19:23 |
| sean-k-mooney | for what its worht i think we are usign tox v4 allready in most case | 19:23 |
| sean-k-mooney | we just have nto raised our min version | 19:23 |
| fungi | except we also do other static analysis in linter (and pep8/flake8) targets too ;) | 19:23 |
| sean-k-mooney | in the project i mean since we do not cap tox in any way | 19:23 |
| * fungi suggests new colors for the shed | 19:24 | |
| JayF | we are just tox, even 4.x, is breaky and generally doesn't always present stable apis or behavior... | 19:24 |
| JayF | claude suggested the best colors to use for the shed are periwinkle, razzmatazz, mauvelous, or goldenrod /s | 19:26 |
| fungi | the up side is we have the benefit of an amazing ci system that implements pre-merge testing for changes to test frameworks and even job definitions, with inheritence where needed, so such a transition could be end-to-end tested before it ever merges | 19:26 |
| sean-k-mooney | both can also be supproted for a tiem but the mucel memory will kill me if we ever to cahnge althogh i could alias tox=nox perhaps | 19:31 |
| fungi | replace tox.ini with one that runs an echo with a reminder to use nox ;) | 19:32 |
| clarkb | sean-k-mooney: the command syntax is different. nox is a lot more verbose which I don't like. But I do like that it is far more explicit about things like python versions which tox will silently run the wrong python version and report success in certain scenarios | 19:33 |
| clarkb | vs nox which can be forced to use a python version and if that isn't present will fail | 19:33 |
| JayF | I don't like how, e.g. unless we force basepython that docs jobs run with whatever py version tox is installed with. | 19:33 |
| JayF | I assume given the shape of nox's CLI that issue wouldn't exist there | 19:33 |
| sean-k-mooney | clarkb: i think that changed in tox 4 for what its worth | 19:33 |
| sean-k-mooney | the basepython stuff is gone | 19:33 |
| sean-k-mooney | or rather not required i think | 19:34 |
| sean-k-mooney | stephen told me it impoved but i dont recal the details | 19:34 |
| spotz[m] | REDACTED | 21:26 |
| JayF | spotz[m]: change your password :( | 21:59 |
| * JayF has done the exact same thing in another #openstack- channel before | 22:00 | |
| spotz[m] | yeah already done | 22:00 |
| fungi | i'll redact the public logs once they're rotated. editing them before utc midnight (in ~81 minutes) will cause the log to be truncated for the rest of the day | 22:39 |
| spotz[m] | Thanks | 23:04 |
| opendevreview | Goutham Pacha Ravi proposed openstack/governance master: Add TC chair and vice-chair for 2026.2 https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/979922 | 23:09 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 4.1.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!