| opendevreview | Mauricio Harley proposed openstack/governance master: Add PQC Migration popup team https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/982062 | 09:48 |
|---|---|---|
| opendevreview | Francois Magimel proposed openstack/governance master: Fix numbered list syntax for migrate to privsep goal https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/986554 | 16:08 |
| gouthamr | tc-members: a gentle reminder that our weekly IRC meeting will be hosted here in ~50 minutes: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee#Agenda | 16:09 |
| gouthamr | #startmeeting tc | 17:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Tue Apr 28 17:00:29 2026 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gouthamr. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 17:00 |
| gouthamr | Welcome to the weekly meeting of the OpenStack Technical Committee. A reminder that this meeting is held under the OpenInfra Code of Conduct available at https://openinfra.dev/legal/code-of-conduct. | 17:00 |
| gouthamr | Today's meeting agenda can be found at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee#Agenda | 17:00 |
| gouthamr | #topic Roll Call | 17:00 |
| mnasiadka | o/ | 17:01 |
| gouthamr | *kaomoji stretches* | 17:02 |
| gouthamr | _silence_ | 17:02 |
| dansmith | o/ | 17:02 |
| frickler | \o | 17:02 |
| gouthamr | courtesy-ping: noonedeadpunk, spotz[m], cardoe, bauzas | 17:02 |
| cardoe | o/ | 17:03 |
| gouthamr | no clue on how tonyb is doing, but, i guess he's busy somewhere | 17:03 |
| bauzas | o/ | 17:04 |
| gouthamr | okay, let's get started.. | 17:05 |
| gouthamr | #topic Last Week's AIs | 17:05 |
| gouthamr | was two weeks ago at this point, because we're going to digest the PTG AIs across the board for a while | 17:05 |
| gouthamr | noonedeadpunk meant to send ML notifications for Venus retirement and Vitrage deprecation.. this was done, there have been no updates on the ML posts since | 17:05 |
| spotz[m] | o/ | 17:06 |
| gouthamr | #link https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/message/QS3TFDCMT5ZBSNFXUVYGLXTKPKIOQDOZ/ ([vitrage][tc] Deprecation of the Vitrage project) | 17:06 |
| gouthamr | #link https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/message/PGT5EUDSNEILHHA2GY6DOQ7FRFIXHTC7/ ([venus][tc] Retirement of the Venus project) | 17:06 |
| gouthamr | so i guess the next thing here is to make progress on the patches themselves to tear down test jobs, empty out the repositories, governance change to move deliverables out of projects.yaml etc | 17:07 |
| gouthamr | will let noonedeadpunk drive that, and we can use our tracking etherpad to catch up on the progress/updates | 17:08 |
| gouthamr | in a similar vein, an infra core still needs to help with the requestsexceptions retirement: | 17:09 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-config/+/979808 (Retire requestsexceptions) | 17:09 |
| mnasiadka | frickler, fungi: ^^ if you have a minute | 17:09 |
| gouthamr | ty, that'll help us with the governance change here: | 17:10 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/979815 (Retire requestsexceptions) | 17:10 |
| gouthamr | cardoe: noonedeadpunk: you had an AI regarding defining the MariaDB 11.8 collation changes goal.. any updates to share? | 17:11 |
| cardoe | We didn't sync up. | 17:12 |
| cardoe | I'm testing some settings out locally and will come back with some doc updates. | 17:12 |
| cardoe | During PTG there was a conversation about some of the centralized docs vs project docs. | 17:12 |
| gouthamr | ack ty, i can move this to the tracker too.. i think in case this would spawn a community goal, we'd need some heads up | 17:13 |
| cardoe | One thing I'm thinking is that there might be a chance for us to centralize the DB creation into 1 doc and have all the project docs point to that as the "official" place. | 17:13 |
| cardoe | Because some projects tell you "run this MySQL command to create your DB" and they've got the collation in the example command (which is wrong) | 17:13 |
| gouthamr | ack, like a db operations & best practices guide | 17:13 |
| gouthamr | that sounds useful | 17:14 |
| cardoe | It was just a thought and my patches to the various projects would then just be to link to that. | 17:14 |
| gouthamr | makes sense, ty for thinking about this.. will check back next week | 17:15 |
| cardoe | We've got one project that's got stuff about latin1 saying its the default. | 17:15 |
| cardoe | keystone talks about when Ubuntu 16.04 is released the command should be X but for now use Y. | 17:16 |
| cardoe | So if centralizing sounds good, we can take an action on that. | 17:16 |
| gouthamr | ++ | 17:17 |
| gouthamr | our next AI was to make changes to the PQC pop up team proposal.. think mharley[m] updated it and you folks have been reviewing, ty for that: | 17:17 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/982062 (Add PQC Migration popup team) | 17:17 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/governance master: Retire requestsexceptions https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/979815 | 17:18 |
| gouthamr | finally, a bunch of other TODOs were related to the PTG | 17:18 |
| gouthamr | which was well attended, ty all for the great discussions there.. | 17:18 |
| gouthamr | the summary is here: | 17:18 |
| gouthamr | #link https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/thread/XYXFYV4GAVNHHDWFEBYFITZAAYPQQS6K/ ([tc][ptg] 2026.2 "Hibiscus" Technical Committee PTG Summary) | 17:18 |
| gouthamr | if you're like me and you would like to relive the whole thing in the copious amount of free time in your day, the discussions are also uploaded here: | 17:20 |
| gouthamr | #link https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhwOhbQKWT7VMSRlyvfJ1eBsl8BjPFNpp (Hibiscus PTG) | 17:20 |
| gouthamr | :D that's all i see for AIs, was anyone else working on anything to bring up here? | 17:20 |
| gouthamr | oh, missed one, we made a bulk transfer request on launchpad: | 17:21 |
| gouthamr | #link https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/824113 (Transfer ownership of 11 OpenStack driver teams to ~openstack-admins) | 17:21 |
| gouthamr | this was done as well.. | 17:21 |
| gouthamr | we have a lot more cruft though, a number of smaller teams - but these are without the security issues risk.. i will try and compile that data for us to opportunistically tackle sometime soon | 17:22 |
| gouthamr | the smaller teams are for managing repos/tasks that we don't ship, or support within the security bug proces - can share the list next week | 17:24 |
| gouthamr | let's move on.. | 17:24 |
| gouthamr | #topic ansible-collections-openstack releases and committers | 17:24 |
| gouthamr | cardoe: the next three topics are yours, ty for adding these.. what's going on? | 17:25 |
| cardoe | So folks want more releases. Folks want patches merged. There's no real traction with the project. | 17:26 |
| cardoe | When adding folks with more access gets brought up there's a flurry of merges (without a release) but it tapers off. | 17:26 |
| cardoe | We've hadd mnasiadka, noonedeadpunk and myself offer to get +2 and make releases since we've been authoring a lot of the changes lately without feedback from the existing +2's. | 17:27 |
| mnasiadka | Especially Kolla-Ansible and OSA use that deliverable in their code | 17:28 |
| cardoe | And releases don't happen with the normal OpenStack release cycle. | 17:28 |
| cardoe | And folks install it from Ansible Galaxy, which requires a release and not just patches sitting in a "stable" branch. So we need more frequent releases. | 17:28 |
| gouthamr | question: this is about this repo, correct? | 17:30 |
| gouthamr | #link https://opendev.org/openstack/ansible-collections-openstack | 17:30 |
| cardoe | Yes. | 17:30 |
| frickler | where did these talks about more access happen? iiuc gtema as sdk ptl is the main person to contact? | 17:30 |
| mnasiadka | I don’t know if it should be managed by the release team - but pushing tags is currently permitted for ansible-collections-openstack-release group - which has 4 members, from which I assume only gtema is active (but he expressed he doesn’t have a lot of interest in maintaining that) | 17:31 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/admin/groups/ansible-collections-openstack-core,members | 17:31 |
| gouthamr | yeah, probably gtema's the only "active" person here | 17:31 |
| cardoe | In #openstack-ansible-sig and #openstack-sdks I've brought it up | 17:31 |
| cardoe | Yeah gtema's the only active person. | 17:31 |
| cardoe | He's said to me to get the other folks to vote to give access. But they're non-responsive. | 17:32 |
| cardoe | I'll admin I stink at finding groups in review.opendev.org and didn't know Kevin Carter was on that list so I never contacted him. | 17:32 |
| gouthamr | oh, from what i recall, we struggled to get gtema access | 17:32 |
| fungi | if the tc asks me or another gerrit admin, we can add someone | 17:33 |
| cardoe | But I'll go yell at Kevin right now. | 17:33 |
| gouthamr | wait | 17:33 |
| cardoe | I contacted the others via IRC and via email. | 17:33 |
| gouthamr | i think there's a bigger problem here.. is your intent to revive the Ansible SIG? | 17:33 |
| gtema | I can also add whomever you say me to, just again expressing the concern about nobody really commited to the project | 17:33 |
| cardoe | My intent is to not have OpenStack contributors pinging me to ask me if this project is dead. :-D | 17:34 |
| cardoe | However the TC wants to structure the maintainership of that project I'm happy to help. | 17:34 |
| gtema | and giving release right to somebody who do not understand all the relations is not cool | 17:34 |
| cardoe | I'd just like to make frequent releases to Ansible Galaxy to fix issues that users run into | 17:34 |
| gouthamr | yes.. i feel like adding people wouldn't solve the underlying issue that the repo was shepherded by a SIG and we'll just be sidestepping that | 17:34 |
| mnasiadka | Well, a-c-o is Ansible SIG deliverable, so we should keep the SIG healthy if we want to maintain a-c-o | 17:34 |
| gouthamr | yeah, perhaps.. i feel if we asked cloudnull, sshnaidm - they'd say they're no longer maintaining the SIG and would be happy to hand that over to people that are interested | 17:35 |
| gouthamr | maybe we use this opportunity to drive that? | 17:36 |
| frickler | according to the wiki, mnaser is also a chair still | 17:36 |
| frickler | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Ansible_SIG | 17:36 |
| mnasiadka | #link https://opendev.org/openstack/governance/src/commit/32999aa5b600354153c8000da076a8d27e1aeded/reference/sigs/sigs.yaml#L2 | 17:36 |
| mnasiadka | That’s probably more accurate, but that one points to cloud null and sshnaidm | 17:37 |
| gouthamr | yes, this should be the source of truth: | 17:37 |
| gouthamr | #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/sigs/index.html | 17:37 |
| cardoe | I've emailed Sagi a number of times asking about the state of the project. I never get back an answer. But usually within ~48 hours of me doing that any of my proposed changes get merged. | 17:38 |
| gouthamr | the release management for this has been external too? | 17:38 |
| mnasiadka | I assume Ansible Galaxy consumes tags | 17:39 |
| mnasiadka | #link https://opendev.org/openstack/ansible-collections-openstack/src/commit/885fadb31e71551087e242dde94985f5f0ba2ec5/.zuul.yaml#L369 | 17:39 |
| gtema | yes, releasing is manual | 17:39 |
| gouthamr | seems like there's some magic in-repo and tools that you run by hand to tag and push to galaxy | 17:39 |
| mnaser | ansible-galaxy gets a .tar.gz pushed over an api that it publishes | 17:39 |
| gtema | nope, it's automatic, but the tag pushing is semi-manual | 17:39 |
| gtema | https://opendev.org/openstack/ansible-collections-openstack/src/branch/master/docs/releasing.md describes the procedure | 17:39 |
| mnasiadka | You just push a signed tag from what I see, not something unusual for other repos in openstack namespace that are not handled by release team | 17:39 |
| gouthamr | ack.. makes sense for me to point sagi and kevin to this discussion and ask them if they'd be okay with handing the SIG's governance over to you folks.. | 17:40 |
| gouthamr | i mean, ask(again) about what their plans are.. if you don't hear back, make the proposal and the TC can help fix it up.. | 17:40 |
| gouthamr | if it helps, we've used a lazy consensus approach quite a lot, and here's another place it can help | 17:42 |
| mnasiadka | Should that another attempt be CCed to openstack-discuss, so it’s easier for TC to track if the answer happened? | 17:42 |
| gouthamr | you don't hear back within a reasonable amount of time, we can assume acceptance and move on.. | 17:42 |
| gouthamr | yes please | 17:42 |
| cardoe | mnasiadka: do you wanna send one? I'll reply? | 17:43 |
| mnasiadka | cardoe: I can send one, but next week - I’m off from Wed this week | 17:44 |
| gouthamr | okay, looks like we have next steps here.. | 17:45 |
| gouthamr | #topic pbr runtime vs importlib runtime | 17:45 |
| mnasiadka | gouthamr: looking at sigs.yaml that might require some cleanup in general… | 17:46 |
| cardoe | So I threw that one on there. We've got pbr as our build tool. But a lot of things also import it but not ALL in OpenStack and they use it for pbr.version.VersionInfo("mypackage") | 17:46 |
| gouthamr | yes, and tonyb offered to pitch in a while ago.. might need a new owner, and probably a piecemeal approach | 17:47 |
| cardoe | In the past there was a lot more that pbr did at runtime | 17:47 |
| cardoe | Now days that's a big wrapper around importlib.metadata.version("mypackage") | 17:48 |
| gouthamr | i see, is your ask to stop using pbr.version.VersionInfo at runtime and switch to importlib.metadata.version() | 17:48 |
| cardoe | Just wondering if we should take this as a chance to slim things down. | 17:48 |
| fungi | the one thing i know of you lose is the ability to report the git commit id info | 17:50 |
| fungi | which can sometimes be useful when installing a rando git checkout | 17:50 |
| clarkb | because that is loaded from a specific pbr metadata file in the package that importlib doesn't know about. | 17:50 |
| fungi | yeah, the pbr.json package metadata file holds that reference | 17:51 |
| fungi | (importlib could report it, you just need to know to tell it to load that, and would effectively be reimplementing pbr.version.VersionInfo yourself) | 17:51 |
| cardoe | Does it? | 17:53 |
| cardoe | Cause I see it calling pbr._compat.metadata.get_version() | 17:53 |
| cardoe | Which the plumbing if you follow it is using importlib.metadata.version if its available | 17:54 |
| gouthamr | time check, sorry.. this is probably a mailing list discussion, cardoe? you'll have other pbr maintainers pitch in as well.. | 17:54 |
| cardoe | works for me. | 17:54 |
| fungi | yes, we can follow up later | 17:54 |
| * fungi is in a conference session right now | 17:55 | |
| gouthamr | #topic Secure RBAC: manager role definition (keystone only or wider scope) | 17:55 |
| gouthamr | i think a bit of this discussion happened here on #openstack-tc yesterday | 17:55 |
| gouthamr | leading to gmaan sending this over | 17:55 |
| gouthamr | #link https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/thread/ZEKOWEMLY6F2RFFXVD37QRQPMB35H5PR/ ([policy][tc] RBAC global auditor (reader)) | 17:55 |
| cardoe | So I spoke with gmann a bit. My concern is that the docs say its a specific role for keystone to implement management of projects. | 17:55 |
| cardoe | But then other projects have started to adopt it as well. | 17:56 |
| cardoe | Should we not lift the wording restriction on it being special to keystone then? | 17:56 |
| gmaan | cardoe: it is for wider scope and i think its just doc bug which can be improved | 17:56 |
| cardoe | okay I can submit patches to that effect. | 17:56 |
| gmaan | ++, I can review that. thanks | 17:57 |
| gouthamr | ty for raising that.. project teams have been following this: | 17:57 |
| gouthamr | #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/goals/selected/consistent-and-secure-rbac.html#implement-support-for-project-manager-personas | 17:57 |
| cardoe | And my last item was that we had auditor but haven't had traction on it and as you posted gmann made a mailing list link. | 17:57 |
| gmaan | yeah, our goal doc says that but I agree to update the keystone doc also | 17:57 |
| gouthamr | ack | 17:57 |
| gouthamr | cardoe: yep! if you/someone you know can help, that sounds like a really nice improvement we want, but don't have someone driving the effort for | 17:58 |
| cardoe | Yep. Working on writing up the use cases for it. | 17:59 |
| gtema | I raised my hand on the ML on the topic | 18:00 |
| cardoe | So the one example I can think of that I've read that the Rackspace Flex team has wanted was to be able to see the hypervisor that a VM is on for example. | 18:00 |
| gouthamr | great stuff, ty! | 18:00 |
| cardoe | Right now that requires role:admin but they don't necessarily want to give that level of power to that account. | 18:00 |
| cardoe | So what we've been looking is a read only user that can see some of the privileged metadata. | 18:01 |
| gmaan | gtema: thanks, did not get chance to reply to that but I have marked it unread to respond sometime later today | 18:01 |
| gouthamr | we're past the hour | 18:01 |
| cardoe | Another example would be member/reader cannot see the VLAN assigned in neutron to a network only role:admin can see it. | 18:01 |
| gouthamr | let's wrap up here, we can continue the conversation though | 18:01 |
| gouthamr | does anyone want to note anything else for the minutes today? | 18:01 |
| gouthamr | sorry we didn't get to the standing topics.. but, cognitive overload from the last week is real. I'll make changes to the meetings repo to officially drop the APAC friendly meeting | 18:02 |
| gouthamr | slot | 18:02 |
| gouthamr | and we've finalized this time for at least until 2026.2 wraps up | 18:03 |
| gouthamr | thank you all for participating | 18:03 |
| gouthamr | #endmeeting | 18:03 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Tue Apr 28 18:03:27 2026 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:03 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2026/tc.2026-04-28-17.00.html | 18:03 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2026/tc.2026-04-28-17.00.txt | 18:03 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2026/tc.2026-04-28-17.00.log.html | 18:03 |
| dansmith | gouthamr: I'm sorry for even saying this, but could I convince you that "AI" is longer an allowable acronym for "Action Item"? | 18:04 |
| bauzas | gouthamr: do I need to specifically add a topic for https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/984958 ? | 18:04 |
| dansmith | every time you use it it shocks me to my sou | 18:04 |
| gouthamr | :( | 18:04 |
| * dansmith wonders who that frowny face was for | 18:05 | |
| gouthamr | i know, noonedeadpunk said that once too.. i'll stop saying AI.. at this point we need a physical thingy that we can "nail down to the wall" and keep yelling at (/me invokes sean-k-mooney) | 18:05 |
| gouthamr | doesn't take me more time to type "Action Items" :P ty for noting it, dansmith | 18:06 |
| dansmith | ah, okay glad I'm not the only one.. "item" is only two more characters than "AI" and I think it's plenty descriptive in most contexts :) | 18:06 |
| gouthamr | bauzas: yes.. i think you've bootstrapped the project and people asked questions on it being in the "openstack" namespace on the ML | 18:07 |
| gouthamr | i need to revisit the thread if we noted the specifics.. we lack a namespace for "unofficial but related" work i think | 18:07 |
| gouthamr | and we can't abuse "x/" as fungi and clarkb told us.. | 18:07 |
| bauzas | gouthamr: this is why we have a note in the README | 18:08 |
| gouthamr | that's an excessive burden on you though to define before you make progress | 18:08 |
| gouthamr | if anything, let's discuss taht bit further? | 18:08 |
| gouthamr | the readme in the repo | 18:08 |
| gouthamr | ? | 18:08 |
| bauzas | but hopefully, we could accept https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/984958 and then this souldn't be a problem | 18:08 |
| JayF | leaningtowerofstack/some-unofficial-repo when :D | 18:09 |
| sean-k-mooney | o/ | 18:09 |
| bauzas | gouthamr: see https://sbauza.github.io/ai/openstack/agentic-workflows-week-one/#finding-a-home | 18:10 |
| gouthamr | i don't know what the "stackforge" story was, but i'm afraid to ask now and be reprimanded | 18:10 |
| sean-k-mooney | it was a place to build unoffical project | 18:10 |
| bauzas | gouthamr: and see https://opendev.org/openstack/agentic-workflows#openstack-agentic-workflows | 18:10 |
| sean-k-mooney | before the big tent | 18:10 |
| bauzas | "This repo is not an official OpenStack deliverable" | 18:10 |
| sean-k-mooney | where thign could incubate and graducate | 18:10 |
| * sean-k-mooney is refing to stackforge | 18:10 | |
| bauzas | anyway, this is too late for me | 18:11 |
| bauzas | 20pm here | 18:11 |
| bauzas | 8pm sorry | 18:11 |
| bauzas | (for discussing) | 18:11 |
| gouthamr | yes, please, we can indeed add a topic to next week, bauzas | 18:11 |
| * bauzas stops | 18:11 | |
| mnasiadka | this would be an interesting clock system that would have 20pm | 18:11 |
| JayF | stackforge lasted long enough for it to be seen as semi-official | 18:11 |
| bauzas | gouthamr: noted, will add | 18:11 |
| JayF | which I think is part of the problem :D | 18:11 |
| JayF | (any unofficial collection of things becomes official if it sticks around too long) | 18:12 |
| gouthamr | yes.. we had a concept of "experimental" apis in manila, where APIs sat flushed out for a decade and the team treats them like any other part of the API.. so, users are like, wth, this is just official, isn't it.. why the weird naming | 18:13 |
| gouthamr | so i get that | 18:13 |
| spotz[m] | I know OSA started in Stackforge and then graduated | 18:44 |
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