Monday, 2018-01-29

« Sunday, 2018-01-28 Index Tuesday, 2018-01-30 »
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-openstackstatus- NOTICE: Zuul is currently under heavy load. Do not *recheck* or *approve* any changes.11:04
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-openstackstatus- NOTICE: Zuul is currently under heavy load. Do not *recheck* or *approve* any changes until we give the go ahead.13:34
*** ChanServ changes topic to "Zuul is currently under heavy load. Do not *recheck* or *approve* any changes until we give the go ahead."13:34
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mrhillsman#startmeeting uc14:00
openstackMeeting started Mon Jan 29 14:00:38 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mrhillsman. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: uc)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'uc'14:00
shamail_Hi everyone14:00
mrhillsman#chair VW zioproto shamail_14:00
openstackCurrent chairs: VW mrhillsman shamail_ zioproto14:00
apricehello!14:01
mrhillsman#topic RollCall14:01
VWhola14:01
*** openstack changes topic to "RollCall (Meeting topic: uc)"14:01
VWo/14:01
apriceo/14:01
mrhillsmangood morning/evening/afternoon great people14:01
shamail_o/14:01
mrhillsmanany others here for uc meeting?14:02
mrhillsmanwill give it a few minutes14:02
mrhillsmanagenda is here #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/UserCommittee14:03
mrhillsmanplease modify should there be anything missing14:03
mrhillsmanalright14:05
mrhillsman#topic Update on election process14:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Update on election process (Meeting topic: uc)"14:06
VWyeah - was about to say it looked like no one had additions14:06
VWso we have election officials - yay!14:06
VWbut we need to get the call for candidates out today14:06
mrhillsman++14:06
mrhillsmanWe also need to approve #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/538311/14:06
mrhillsmanUnfortunately if anyone was waiting to see the update via the usual SUCCESS job link, infra is not storing success jobs for now14:07
VWreviewing patch now14:07
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jamesmcarthurHi o/14:08
mrhillsmanty sir14:08
VWhey jamesmcarthur14:08
mrhillsmanhey jimmy14:08
mrhillsmanis there anything we need to resolve re election?14:09
jamesmcarthurI’m working on the full list of the electorate14:09
jamesmcarthurHope to have put by EOD14:09
mrhillsmanawesome14:09
jamesmcarthurI’ve never run he actual election14:09
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jamesmcarthurSo I’m hoping someone else can provide some guidance on that front :)14:10
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mrhillsmanno worries, we have general notes from Tom #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nBNGel9aNVgPG0wBYZA36gfGzZedLPpO3YJy-EdWY2E/edit14:10
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mrhillsmanand some re the auc technical details #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1djJSA8reYSsNETpCRRhoFUTrnLiTDPW2r36ccqZZzSw/edit14:11
mrhillsmanplus i believe shilla and tim are officials are familiar, and edgar as well14:12
jamesmcarthurGot it14:12
mrhillsmanif you do run across anything you think should be documented, feel free to add to #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LLk_v3KAM_3cJGaYJyU3k2L9w1geP4ccv2cL3CtLOhc/edit14:13
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mrhillsmanwe hope to take as much from this election and give it a permanent home for posterity14:14
mrhillsmananything else on the election peeps?14:14
Shamailmrhillsman: +1, it should become a wiki page eventually14:14
mrhillsman++14:14
mrhillsman#chair Shamail14:14
openstackCurrent chairs: Shamail VW mrhillsman shamail_ zioproto14:14
mrhillsmanmoving on14:15
mrhillsman#topic Ops midcycle update14:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Ops midcycle update (Meeting topic: uc)"14:15
VWwait - did we task someone with getting a note out for nominations/candidates?14:16
VWonce the page is updated, of course14:16
mrhillsman#topic Update on election process14:17
ShamailVW: I think that is one of the function of the election officials, right?14:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Update on election process (Meeting topic: uc)"14:17
mrhillsmannot 100% sure, i do not remember who did the last time :(14:17
jamesmcarthurWe can dig back through the digest14:18
mrhillsmanyep, looking14:18
Shamailmrhillsman: I’ve seen Tony send them out for TC elections before... if it wasn’t an election official last time then I would recommend it be one this time. This gives people a clear path on who to communicate with.14:19
VWseems reasonable14:20
mrhillsman++14:20
mrhillsmanVW you want to reach out to Shilla and Tim?14:20
VWyeah - I will ping them14:20
mrhillsmanit was actually Shilla last time14:20
mrhillsmanhttp://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2017-January/012530.html14:20
VWPS - I may be lacking all the right permissions for the UC project in code review.  Let's look at that after the meeting mrhillsman14:21
mrhillsmansure thing14:21
mrhillsmananything else on election?14:21
ShamailSame here (unless it only has +1 options).... I do see workflow -1/+1 as well.14:21
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance-uc master: Add election officials  https://review.openstack.org/53831114:22
VWnm - guess I had enough permissions ^14:22
VW:)14:23
mrhillsmanhrm...yeah, that is interesting, i do not see +214:23
VWOK - I can reach out to Tim and Shilla14:23
VWwith the slight change in process14:23
VWan no, no other election stuff here14:24
mrhillsman#action VW to reach out to Tim and Shilla to send nomination/candidacy announcement14:24
mrhillsmanok cool14:24
mrhillsmanShamail ?14:24
mrhillsmanjamesmcarthur:14:24
ShamailNothing from me either14:25
mrhillsmangood deal14:25
mrhillsman#topic Ops midcycle update14:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Ops midcycle update (Meeting topic: uc)"14:25
jamesmcarthurI’m good14:25
zioprotohello14:25
ShamailHi zioproto14:25
mrhillsmanunfortunately i missed last couple meetings but things appeared to be in order, zioproto or VW probably have a better bead on this one14:25
mrhillsmanhey zioproto14:25
VWyes - things look good for Tokyo14:26
VWno host for the August meeting yet14:26
VWBloomberg may be willing again, but not confirmed14:26
mrhillsmanlast note was getting the attendee list and discounts for sponsors14:26
jamesmcarthurHave y’all considered tying the next meetup into an OpenStack Day?14:27
mrhillsmandid amrith from verizon drop back in?14:27
VWI don't know14:27
VWbut I do recall hearing/seeing something about them being out as a sponsor14:27
mrhillsmanjamesmcarthur i do not recall when it was last brought up14:27
VWI think14:27
mrhillsmani think however it was discussed previously to do so after the next one since some folks, bloomberg verizon etc, had ok'd hosting14:28
jamesmcarthurGot it.14:28
mrhillsmanbut, may be good time to circle back around to that tomorrow14:28
VWyeah14:29
VWI'll be in the meeting tomorrow14:29
mrhillsmansince no host has been decided and tokyo seems to be in the books14:29
mrhillsman++14:29
VWthat seemed to be the general thoughts when I caught up with them at the tail end of last week's meeting14:29
mrhillsmanthe list of attendees has been curated and discount codes provided14:29
mrhillsmani should be there as well :)14:30
VWat the meetup? Nice!14:30
mrhillsmanthat 8am14:30
VWoh14:30
VWyeah14:30
mrhillsmannah, not going to make tokyo :(14:30
-openstackstatus- NOTICE: we've been able to restart zuul, and re-enqueue changes for gate. Please hold off on recheck or approves, we are still recovering. More info shortly.14:30
mrhillsmani bought a ticket in support though14:30
mrhillsmananything more on this topic?14:31
ShamailNot on my side14:31
VWnope - good here14:32
mrhillsmancool14:32
mrhillsman#topic UC planning session at PTG14:32
*** openstack changes topic to "UC planning session at PTG (Meeting topic: uc)"14:32
mrhillsmanwe have a doc for that hehe #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/19DhGbvO-WfQKG5MJEUqQ2xfVBFZYjOR8H7JvfQNHUA0/edit14:33
VWyes - and I have not done good at adding to it14:33
ShamailI haven’t heard back from the Travel Support Program yet. I’ll let all of you know once I find out anything from that end.14:33
VWI need to work on that14:33
mrhillsmanawesome, hope that you can make it Shamail14:33
ShamailI’ll add topics to the document later this week regardless of if I can make it or not.14:34
mrhillsmanwonderful14:34
mrhillsmanwe should probably consider some options for remote too14:34
Shamailmrhillsman: +114:35
zioprotoFor sure I will not be in person at the PTG. But I am available via Zoom14:35
mrhillsmanleong will probably not be able to make it for instance but wanted to participate14:35
mrhillsmanawesome zioproto14:35
VWwe should.  It's looking positive that I can make it but waiting on final confirmation14:35
mrhillsmani will take things to facilitate that14:35
ShamailReviewing the existing items on the list... have we made any contact with the Ambassadors yet? Do we know if will be present at PTG?14:35
mrhillsmani know i have not14:36
mrhillsmanSonia is probably best person to reach out to14:36
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ShamailI can take that item...14:36
ShamailSonia at OpenStack dot org?14:37
mrhillsmansec14:37
apriceshamail: for ambassador outreach, can you please email me?14:37
ShamailAbsolutely aprice!14:37
mrhillsmanthx aprice!14:37
apricethat is Sonia's email address, so please keep her cc'd, but I think that other folks on our team are going to be taking on that role14:37
apriceno14:37
apricenp!*14:37
ShamailI can provide a summary of what we are trying to accomplish, ask if any will be at PTG, and invite them to a UC meeting.14:37
zioprotois there a mailing list to get in touch with all the ambassadors ?14:38
mrhillsmani was hoping you or jamesmcarthur would answer cause i was not sure she was still handling that14:38
apriceperfect14:38
mrhillsmanzioproto i was told before openstack ML14:38
Shamail#action Shamail will email aprice to connect with Ambassadors ahead of PTG14:38
apricethey primarily use the community ML14:38
mrhillsmanaprice got it thugh :)14:38
mrhillsmanthis is where zoom again can be good14:39
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Shamailmrhillsman: +114:39
Shamailor robots with screens on them, either one.14:40
mrhillsmannot sure how many will be at the ptg, but also Shamail maybe we could try to find a day/time best for as many ambassadors as possible14:40
Shamail:-)14:40
mrhillsmanhehe14:40
Shamailmrhillsman: agreed... we can find out. I think regardless of PTG that we should invite them to our weekly meeting (as often as they can make it) to increase collaboration between UC & Ambassadors14:41
mrhillsmanprobably having us all talk is a high priority and something we should do more frequently going forward?14:41
mrhillsman++14:41
mrhillsmanwe on the same page ;)14:41
ShamailYep yep14:41
mrhillsmanso i think we can all just take the action to update that document 'tween now and next meeting14:42
ShamailSounds good14:42
mrhillsmananything else on this topic?14:42
ShamailNo. Thanks.14:42
VWnone here14:42
zioprotonone here14:42
mrhillsman#info all uc members update #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/19DhGbvO-WfQKG5MJEUqQ2xfVBFZYjOR8H7JvfQNHUA0/edit for next meeting14:42
mrhillsmancool14:42
mrhillsman#topic Open Discussion14:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: uc)"14:43
mrhillsmanso we have ~17 minutes, anything we need to touch on?14:43
ShamailI’m good.14:43
VWme too14:43
mrhillsmanif not, we can get a few minutes back14:43
zioprotoShould we14:43
zioprotogather user feedback14:43
zioprotoon the new Release Cycle discussion14:43
zioproto??14:43
zioprotoI think at the PTG that will be an hot topic14:43
zioprotoand we dont really have a "what users want"14:44
zioprotoright ?14:44
mrhillsman++14:44
Shamailzioproto: ++14:44
zioprotoShould we agree on a common statement, of what users community wants ?14:44
zioprotocould be enough to make a summary of the long emails threads that were out there14:45
jamesmcarthur_I think we need to present something that shows a breadth of users.14:45
mrhillsmanso that thread was pretty long, was actually 2 of them hehe14:45
jamesmcarthur_Yes, those threads were insane.14:45
mrhillsmanmaybe we should start another hehe14:45
VWagree with jamesmcarthur_ - I don't think there is one common statement14:45
mrhillsmanyeah14:45
zioprotoThe problem is that there two topics that get always mixed. Release cycle, and upgrade skipping releases14:46
mrhillsmanthere were suggestions from one extreme to the other14:46
jamesmcarthur_Right. We've had a couple of users that are working off of master saying they see no reason to change the cycle. So that's the thing that the TC is clinging to.14:46
VWimo it's because we talk about the wrong thing.  We focus on release cycle, upgrade skips etc - when the thing people are worked about is the pain of upgrade14:46
jamesmcarthur_But users that are working off of master are not indicative of a larger sample set.14:46
VWfix that and a lot of this becomes moot14:46
mrhillsmanmaybe we should start with a problem statement and get feedback on just that14:47
jamesmcarthur_VW +114:47
zioprotoI think the all point here, is making Openstack able for Operations consume14:47
mrhillsmanwithout going directly to implementation which is where stuff gets convoluted14:47
ShamailIt would be great if we could summarize the user feedback (not one view but the various views offered) and highlight some trade offs to stir conversation14:48
mrhillsmanwhat i remember about the threads is a constant "what are we trying to solve for exactly, what is the actual issue users have"14:48
zioprotothe problem statement is that is difficult to consume Openstack for the industry. In sydney the person from AT&T made a presentation about this.14:48
zioprotoI dont remeber his name14:48
zioprotohe explained why the delivery of openstack is slow14:48
mrhillsmanwas it the keynote?14:48
zioprotono no14:48
zioprotoat the Monday board meeting14:48
mrhillsmanah ok14:49
zioprotohttps://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/5Nov2017BoardMeeting14:50
mrhillsmanso what do we want to do here? what is the next step14:50
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mrhillsmanChris and Kandan?14:51
VWlet's add an agenda item for next week.  Sounds like we at least need to get agreement within the UC on how e can productively steer the process14:51
mrhillsman++14:51
Shamail_VW: ++14:51
jamesmcarthur_Can we target a set of operators from different industry size and type to see if we can get specific feedback around release cycles and upgrades?14:51
* VW edits wikis14:51
jamesmcarthur_A mini-survey?14:51
VWI think we can jamesmcarthur_14:51
mrhillsmansounds good to me jamesmcarthur_14:51
mrhillsman#info can we target a set of operators from different industry size and type to see if we can get specific feedback around release cycles and upgrades?14:52
zioprotomini survey looks like the right thing to do14:52
Shamail_Last time PWG had a discussion on this topic about 2 years ago... there was a big difference not based on just organization size but cloud type as well14:52
mrhillsman++14:53
Shamail_Public operators were much more comfortable with more frequent releases while end user operators didn’t want to go through change control that often14:53
Shamail_+1 for mini survey14:54
zioprotothe problem is the EOF of the releases that happens very soon now14:54
mrhillsmanso it sounds like we want to get just enough but not too much info via the survey14:54
Shamail_The survey should give data points for discussion and not an outcome/decision14:54
zioprotobut if from the survery it comes out that we need more devs for the stable releases, how we actually get those resources ?14:54
zioprotothis part of the solution of the problem is still not clear to me14:55
mrhillsmanSeems we have quite a bit of information already on this #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wu_tKwogCvirDV3kd4YkWa4bWb_UMT4j4llle6j5MRg/edit14:55
zioprotowe can identify the problem. but if the TC does not have resources to solve it... I dont see how the problem will be really fixed14:55
VWbecause we are jumping to a solution - i.e. "we need a stable release for x years"14:55
VWfigure out the problem first14:55
mrhillsmanWe can use the doc there to start capturing thoughts/info in prep for the mini-survey?14:55
jamesmcarthur_VW ++14:55
Shamail_VW: ++14:56
VWget a list of the 5 or 6 things that make upgrades painful for a wide range of operators14:56
mrhillsmanexactly14:56
VWthen use the survey to have folks "vote" on the consolidated list14:56
VW"here are 28 painful issues with upgrades. You have 5 dollars to spend on fixing them.  You can spend all 5 on one or 1 on 5 or something in between.  Ready - go!"14:57
VWsomething like that14:57
mrhillsmani think we could help with moving the needle by helping get those 5 or 6 things, and provide a plan of action and call to duty to completion14:57
VWyes sir14:57
mrhillsmanso it is not so much a TC thing but a UC thing14:57
mrhillsmanand maybe we can push for resources that way14:58
VWOk - I added it to next week's agenda14:58
mrhillsmanso we have a couple minutes14:58
zioprotoThanks for the meeting ! :)14:58
mrhillsmanwe have the doc and updated agenda14:58
mrhillsmanany other pressing items please update agenda :)14:58
mrhillsmanthx everyone for making it14:59
mrhillsman#endmeeting14:59
VWthanks for driving mrhillsman14:59
*** openstack changes topic to "Zuul is currently under heavy load. Do not *recheck* or *approve* any changes until we give the go ahead."14:59
openstackMeeting ended Mon Jan 29 14:59:18 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/uc/2018/uc.2018-01-29-14.00.html14:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/uc/2018/uc.2018-01-29-14.00.txt14:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/uc/2018/uc.2018-01-29-14.00.log.html14:59
mrhillsmanVW figured i would give you a break hehe14:59
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Shamail_See you later!15:01
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