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| VW | hey aprice, lsell, mrhillsman - I just discovered there was a crossed wire somewhere that I didn't catch, so my flight home is actually scheduled for tomorrow - not Friday. Seeing if there are any options, but there is a change I won't actually be around tomorrow | 12:58 |
|---|---|---|
| VW | ok - all good. Thanks to the snow, no change fees for United :) | 13:15 |
| VW | I'm on the flight I expected to be on now | 13:15 |
| mrhillsman | ++ | 13:31 |
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| mrhillsman | dropping here for visibility | 14:22 |
| mrhillsman | Just spoke with Adam Spiers - self-healing SIG - he has a small set of questions for operators he would like to get before Tokyo attendees | 14:23 |
| mrhillsman | basically their focus is heavily operator centric but they are needing more feedback | 14:24 |
| VW | let's get some notes in their online doc | 14:24 |
| mrhillsman | he will draft etherpad summarizing ptg session and very simple 3/4 questions | 14:24 |
| mrhillsman | yep, will add | 14:25 |
| mrhillsman | I mentioned it would be good to make it usable at more than just the midcycle and he agreed | 14:27 |
| mrhillsman | i.e. OSD Nordic | 14:27 |
| VW | yeah - baby steps | 15:34 |
| VW | let's make useful things happen next week and then build from there | 15:35 |
| zioproto | meeting in 20 minutes ? | 15:43 |
| spotz | Wait what snow?!!! | 15:49 |
| zioproto | ?? | 15:50 |
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| VW | it's a bit of a winter wonderland in DUB, spotz | 15:56 |
| VW | :) | 15:57 |
| spotz | **sniffles** I'm missing snow too!!!!! | 15:57 |
| spotz | 71 here | 15:57 |
| * VW is missing those kinds of temperatures :) | 15:57 | |
| zioproto | it is -12 here :) | 15:58 |
| zioproto | maybe I got confused | 16:00 |
| zioproto | is the quick meeting now ? | 16:00 |
| VW | yes | 16:00 |
| VW | #startmeeting uc | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Feb 28 16:01:13 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is VW. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: uc)" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'uc' | 16:01 |
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| leong | o/ | 16:01 |
| VW | #chair zioproto spotz leong mrhillsman | 16:01 |
| openstack | Current chairs: VW leong mrhillsman spotz zioproto | 16:01 |
| aprice | o/ | 16:01 |
| spotz | \o/ | 16:02 |
| zioproto | welcome to the UC spotz :) | 16:02 |
| VW | fyi - mrhillsman and I are in a room where another conversation is going on, so he may be focused on that | 16:02 |
| spotz | thanks zioproto:) | 16:02 |
| VW | yes - first off, congrats to leong and spotz | 16:02 |
| leong | multitasking... mrhillsman | 16:02 |
| leong | thanks VW | 16:02 |
| spotz | Thanks VW:) | 16:02 |
| zioproto | welcome leong :) | 16:02 |
| VW | we'll do more of the formal welcomes, chair elections, etc on Monday | 16:02 |
| VW | but we did want to catch the whole team up on conversations to date | 16:03 |
| leong | VW: what's the agenda today? | 16:03 |
| VW | my thought was we could walk through https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/UC-Rocky-PTG | 16:03 |
| VW | at a high level of course | 16:04 |
| VW | part of why we set up the meeting was to have a place holder if we needed any votes | 16:04 |
| VW | doesn't look like we'll need that | 16:04 |
| VW | but we'd love to pass on some key items coming out of the strategic planning sessions | 16:04 |
| VW | which reminds me... | 16:05 |
| VW | #topic Review UC PTG discussions | 16:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review UC PTG discussions (Meeting topic: uc)" | 16:05 | |
| leong | i did read through the etherpad.. looks good to me from a high-level perspective | 16:05 |
| VW | cool | 16:05 |
| mrhillsman | sorry i'm here :) | 16:05 |
| leong | just a few nits when comes into detailed discussion | 16:06 |
| VW | so, I think one of the key summary items is that the UC needs to start channeling output from Ops and end users in to more tangible items in the dev process | 16:07 |
| VW | for example - can we help get topics at the Ops Mid-cycle translated into forum submissions at the next summit | 16:07 |
| leong | i assume that we also need to review UC 2018 Goals in alignment with Boards' strategic focus areas | 16:07 |
| VW | yes | 16:07 |
| VW | but there seems to be general agreement that the user space across all the SFA's is probably largely shared | 16:08 |
| spotz | Can OPs submit for forum sessions and if so do they know? | 16:08 |
| VW | so the UC as it is today probably needs to play a role across them all | 16:08 |
| VW | They can | 16:08 |
| VW | some do | 16:08 |
| VW | our hope is that we can help make it all more obvious and successful | 16:09 |
| VW | our realistic goals are looking to getting feedback from mid-cycles, OS days and regional meetups into Berlin as forum sessions | 16:09 |
| leong | spotz: VW: need to clarify with Foundation staff on how to structure the Ops and Forum session | 16:09 |
| spotz | Might be a good superuser article, A hey OPs did you know... and that could be one item | 16:09 |
| VW | not sure I follow, leong | 16:10 |
| leong | it used to have a Ops "summit" alongside with the normal summit | 16:10 |
| VW | ah yes - words are hard :) | 16:10 |
| VW | let me try and explain a bit | 16:10 |
| aprice | Jimmy is unable to join the meeting today, but I will pass along any notes from the meeting | 16:10 |
| VW | thanks aprice | 16:10 |
| spotz | Thanks aprice | 16:10 |
| VW | and it is being recorded | 16:10 |
| leong | let's put that an AR to follow up and clarify with Jimmy (they have been doing a great job!) | 16:11 |
| VW | anyway, beginning in Atlanta, we started having sessions co-located with the design summit for Operators | 16:11 |
| VW | however, the design summit, itself, changed to the forum in Boston | 16:12 |
| leong | VW: do you want to take that AR to follow up with Jimmy? :) | 16:12 |
| leong | or i can shoot an email now..:) | 16:12 |
| VW | sure - not sure what I'm following up on | 16:12 |
| aprice | yeah, im happy to follow up as well, but am confused about the action item | 16:13 |
| spotz | Criteria for submitting to the forum I think? | 16:13 |
| VW | ah - let me finish the brief history lesson and I think it will make more sense :) | 16:13 |
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| VW | back in the design summit days, the primary summit sessions were very much about HOW things would be implemented in software. The conversations in the room were very blueprint and code focused | 16:14 |
| VW | it was often hard to feel useful if you were an operator in the room that hadn't been involved in all the dev team work to that point | 16:14 |
| VW | with the shift to the Forum model, the focus on the sessions is now more about WHAT the software should do - high level feature/function conversations that aren't too deep in the code | 16:15 |
| VW | they should attract both dev and ops looking to discuss these items | 16:15 |
| VW | the "HOW" bit now takes place at the PTG | 16:16 |
| VW | anyway, to leong's point, it's really more that the old design summits and Ops sessions merged (or got replaced) by the new forum sessions | 16:16 |
| VW | there isn't a lot of risk of us driving submissions by Ops/Users colliding with other things | 16:17 |
| VW | does that make a little more sense? | 16:17 |
| zioproto | the all story you described makes sense to me | 16:18 |
| spotz | VW I think it's more of a communication issue of what can be submitted for the Forum and when | 16:18 |
| zioproto | it is a perfect summary of the current situation | 16:18 |
| VW | spotz: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Forum | 16:20 |
| spotz | At least from the OSA side of things we're following what you've described and the few others I've seen prepping for Forums have as well | 16:20 |
| VW | what we are trying to do is leverage Ops/user gatherings for the "Brainstorming" portion | 16:20 |
| leong | my assumption is that: anyone including ops can propose forum sessions. Today Forum sessions is focus around 3 areas: project-specific, cross-project, and strategic. | 16:21 |
| leong | and it is still more "dev-centric" | 16:21 |
| VW | and turning common issues, pain, concerns into forum submissions for fixes, features, functions | 16:21 |
| leong | i think there should have an area which is more "ops-centric" | 16:21 |
| VW | not really | 16:21 |
| spotz | leong I think that's a result of OPs not submitting things which goes back to us helping to drive it | 16:21 |
| VW | we aren't looking to make ops/distinctions here | 16:22 |
| zioproto | spotz: +1 | 16:22 |
| VW | we are looking to take the concerns of the users and turn them in to change/action | 16:22 |
| VW | yeah - +1 spotz | 16:22 |
| leong | that's what i am trying to say.. more forum sessions are driven by dev | 16:22 |
| VW | ah - yes | 16:22 |
| VW | got ya | 16:22 |
| VW | cool - so we all are in general agreement that anything we can do as a body to help get more session driven by Ops input, the better things will be | 16:23 |
| leong | we need a focus where users can express their needs/requirements and get these into the development priority | 16:23 |
| VW | plenty of details to figure out :) | 16:23 |
| leong | VW: +1 | 16:23 |
| spotz | VW +1 | 16:23 |
| zioproto | VW: +1 | 16:24 |
| VW | so, leong - that's where we want to really focus things like the mid-cycle and gatherings at the OS days and regional meetups | 16:24 |
| VW | these are places where OPs/Users are already gathering | 16:24 |
| leong | VW: +1 | 16:24 |
| VW | and to date, the discussions there don't turn into much tangible action | 16:24 |
| zioproto | VW: I would say that we tried to group in the same geo location PTG and Ops Mid-Cycle but Ops community refused the idea | 16:24 |
| leong | we have been trying to collect those data from mid-cycle / os days or meetups.. but haven't been very effective | 16:25 |
| spotz | zioproto: What was the reason? | 16:25 |
| VW | agreed leong | 16:25 |
| leong | mrhillsman and I were driving the "etherpad digging and summarized action items" | 16:25 |
| mrhillsman | personally i believe the process was too heavy | 16:26 |
| mrhillsman | we discussed very simple process during sessions | 16:26 |
| VW | let's be careful. co-locating the Ops-midcycle isn't the way to really push what I am describing above | 16:26 |
| zioproto | spotz: Ops felt their importance would be smaller merging their event into the PTG. Ops mid-cycle is a 2 days event. PTG is a full week. Putting the events together in the same place and the same week sounded scary to ops. They were afraid to be overwhelmed by the PTG | 16:26 |
| VW | there may be reasons to co-locate in the future for budget/facility reasons | 16:26 |
| VW | BUT the forum sessions are the discussions where Ops and Dev in the same room provides the most value | 16:27 |
| leong | for information: #link etherpad double-hashtag result: https://github.com/openstack/development-proposals/tree/master/forum/201705-bos | 16:27 |
| leong | VW: +1... co-locating is not a solution | 16:27 |
| VW | but it still might need to happen, but we'll table that discussion for now :D | 16:28 |
| mrhillsman | ++ | 16:28 |
| VW | we actually decided to do a little pilot test with the Tokyo meeting next week | 16:28 |
| VW | we have two simple goals | 16:28 |
| VW | 1. can we get a list of 3 or 4 key issues that are common to most of the attendess | 16:29 |
| spotz | Ok so we've got promoting OPs to submit forum sessions as an action everyone can agree on:) | 16:29 |
| VW | the hope is that we, as the UC, can circulate that back to the regional meetups and such to get more feedback and channel to forum sessions by Berlin | 16:29 |
| * leong unfortunately i won't be attending Tokyo Ops midcycle | 16:29 | |
| VW | 2. Since there are some specific tracks in Tokyo (NFV for example), we are going see if we "might" be able to get 1 or 2 direct forum submissions out of the conversations there | 16:30 |
| VW | #2 is a long shot | 16:30 |
| VW | but if the UC can show that kind of success, it would be a huge win | 16:31 |
| VW | none of us will be there leong | 16:31 |
| VW | but anne from the foundation is here and will be attending Tokyo | 16:31 |
| VW | jamesmcarthur, aprice, mrhillsman and myself have been working with her to try and do some of what I just described | 16:31 |
| spotz | VW if we can get the top 1-4 pain points, could the UC submit and drive the coversation? | 16:31 |
| leong | VW: i agree with the goal... the challenge is 'how' and 'who' to drive the 3-4 key issues (assuming that not all UC has the relevant domain knowledge in every issues) | 16:32 |
| VW | yes, spotz - exactly | 16:32 |
| VW | well, leong - that ties in to another part of the etherpad | 16:32 |
| VW | better use of regional ambassadors, regional meetups, etc | 16:32 |
| VW | We should get that top 4 things in their hands and get input from the users we may not hear from as often | 16:33 |
| leong | scratching the etherpad contents is a pain especially if you are not "in that" discussion | 16:33 |
| VW | agreed | 16:33 |
| VW | but if we can make the ambassadors or meetup leaders more active in the process... | 16:34 |
| aprice | we are also hoping that the organizers are going to send a summary as well so that digging through the etherpads are not as much of a pain | 16:34 |
| VW | maybe they can translate the conversations into some specifics for us | 16:34 |
| aprice | Anne is going to try and help them do that | 16:34 |
| aprice | (ops meetup organizers) | 16:34 |
| VW | or OpenStack Days organizers | 16:34 |
| VW | or meetup organziers | 16:35 |
| VW | etc | 16:35 |
| aprice | ++ | 16:35 |
| spotz | I'll try to hit the next Austin meetup, the last one I went to wasn't very OpenStack related | 16:35 |
| VW | that's fair | 16:35 |
| VW | but what if we had that top 4 list for you to float and get feedback ;) | 16:35 |
| leong | aprice: VW: +1 i think we should *kind of* put some guidelines in place and encourage coordinator/organizer to send a summary *with action items* | 16:36 |
| leong | when is the next Austin meetup? | 16:36 |
| VW | but yes - you guys are totally getting it | 16:36 |
| VW | and leong your question is exactly why we want to "test" some of the process with Tokyo | 16:37 |
| leong | VW: cool... let;s get that going and sync up with shintaro | 16:37 |
| VW | yeah - since he and Chris were online yesterday for the normal Ops Meetup team meeting, we did a preliminary dump of these ideas on them | 16:38 |
| VW | they were open to it | 16:38 |
| VW | and Anne will help drive things there | 16:38 |
| VW | there's a chance we got it all wrong, but we will just iterate on the process based on how things go | 16:39 |
| spotz | leong In the next week or 2 I think | 16:39 |
| leong | spotz: ok... got it.. you mean to regional meetup... i thought you refer to ops-midcycle :-) | 16:39 |
| spotz | leong: Oh no though it would be nice if there was one there:) | 16:40 |
| VW | #action spotz confirm next Austin regional meetup date | 16:40 |
| spotz | VM MArch 8:) | 16:40 |
| VW | #action VW add iterating on feedback loop via Austin meetup to agenda | 16:41 |
| VW | we'll try and revisit that on Monday, spotz | 16:41 |
| VW | so, the last big thing I wanted to touch on from the PTG etherpad is we may be looking at further defining/expanding the AUC designation | 16:42 |
| VW | jamesmcarthur, aprice, lsell, mrhillsman and myself don't know exactly what that looks like yet, but we discussed the need to make improvements | 16:44 |
| VW | that's likely to be a recurring topic in our regular meetings | 16:44 |
| leong | AUC needs to be reviewed and updated per cycle and published | 16:45 |
| VW | right | 16:46 |
| VW | we need to figure out to better catch ALL the right folks | 16:46 |
| aprice | ++ | 16:46 |
| VW | and do so as programmatically as possible | 16:46 |
| spotz | ++ | 16:46 |
| zioproto | sounds good | 16:46 |
| VW | so tl;dr - the work here has been good, and the UC has a pretty full plate for the next year | 16:47 |
| VW | but the foundation is all about helping us be successful in all of the stuff above | 16:47 |
| leong | also on how SIG to be included in AUC | 16:47 |
| zioproto | again, it looks like enough stuff to justify a Foundation person working in the UC, like there are already Foundation persons in the TC. This was also proposed in the past. | 16:48 |
| VW | so that is where jamesmcarthur comes in | 16:48 |
| aprice | jamesmcarthur from the Foundation is going to be working very closely with the UC | 16:48 |
| VW | the UC isn't the only thing he does | 16:48 |
| zioproto | great news ! :) thanks | 16:48 |
| VW | but he has been doing a lot for us | 16:48 |
| VW | and will continue to | 16:48 |
| zioproto | because it takes a lot of time to finalize all this things, and all of us are doing UC out of our core business | 16:49 |
| VW | but, zioproto - I can attest to the fact that a lot of the discussions that are in the etherpad included many many Foundation members | 16:49 |
| VW | and they are all very interested in helping us accomplish these things | 16:49 |
| mrhillsman | ++ | 16:49 |
| zioproto | VW: yes. But there are some steps that require a single person gathering the material, polish it, and perform an action step | 16:50 |
| spotz | I think SIGs and a lot of the ops/user/new folks facing groups should be included for UC. The trouble is weeding through to get the folks who are actually active | 16:50 |
| VW | agreed | 16:50 |
| VW | right spotz | 16:50 |
| VW | we'll talk about it though | 16:50 |
| VW | we spent some time on SIGs, but there is still lots of confusion and very mixed opinions about what they are, should they exist, how they should be governed, etc | 16:51 |
| zioproto | I mean that we can provide input with these meetings. We can do some actions, but we cannot work 20 or 30% of our time as community managers for the UC. This is why the help from jamesmcarthur is very welcome | 16:51 |
| VW | more stuff for us to spend time on :D | 16:51 |
| zioproto | I think this is the same vision also Edgar had in the past | 16:51 |
| VW | true zioproto, but we should expect to have to spend some time out side of the meetings, etc working on things | 16:52 |
| zioproto | to run the UC it is not enough to work on it 3 or 4 hours per week | 16:52 |
| zioproto | that is why it is important to have a person that can spend more time on this actions, finalizing the things, after we provide input and material to work on | 16:52 |
| VW | time check - this was supposed to be a quick update and we've gone almost an hour | 16:52 |
| VW | anything else we need to discuss today? | 16:53 |
| aprice | not from me | 16:53 |
| leong | thanks VW | 16:53 |
| zioproto | thanks VW | 16:54 |
| spotz | I think we covered alot:) | 16:54 |
| VW | awesome - thank you all for taking the time | 16:54 |
| VW | welcome again, leong and spotz | 16:54 |
| VW | will see you all on Monday at 1800 UTC!! | 16:54 |
| spotz | Thanks, take care all:) | 16:54 |
| leong | have a good day! | 16:54 |
| VW | #endmeeting | 16:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: uc)" | 16:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Feb 28 16:55:05 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/uc/2018/uc.2018-02-28-16.01.html | 16:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/uc/2018/uc.2018-02-28-16.01.txt | 16:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/uc/2018/uc.2018-02-28-16.01.log.html | 16:55 |
| *** leong has left #openstack-uc | 16:55 | |
| mrhillsman | thx for driving the meeting VW! | 16:55 |
| zioproto | bye bye | 16:56 |
| aprice | thanks everyone! | 16:57 |
| aprice | VW mrhillsman does 11am tomorrow work to discuss user survey & ops tagging? | 17:16 |
| VW | I am flexible. Just need to pin a time down so I can let someone else know when I'm available for a call | 17:18 |
| aprice | mrhillsman does that work for you? | 17:22 |
| mrhillsman | i think so :) | 17:39 |
| aprice | ok perfect :) ill see what room we can get and keep yall posted | 17:39 |
| mrhillsman | i think lauren wants to lock down a time tomorrow to talk cicd stuff more | 17:39 |
| mrhillsman | my schedule is open | 17:40 |
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| aprice | ok - ill ping her to get a time locked down | 17:42 |
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