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| kpepple | is anyone using opensource xen with nova ? having some issues with libvirt templates ... | 00:48 |
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| deepest | Hi everyone | 01:14 |
| deepest | I need some help from you guys | 01:14 |
| deepest | I installed openstack succesfully | 01:14 |
| deepest | and now I want to configure the VNC on Dashboard with the tutorial of HUGO POT like this way http://hugokuo-hugo.blogspot.com/2011/04/implement-instance-vnc-console-on.html#more | 01:15 |
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| deepest | I got failed in this way | 01:15 |
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| deepest | can any people help me to solved this problem? | 01:16 |
| deepest | I cannot find the NOVA-DIRECT-API to run up | 01:16 |
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| deepest | who know about it, please tell me | 01:17 |
| deepest | thank U in advance | 01:17 |
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| t9md | hi, I uploaded template os dis image via nova-api with qcow2 format. | 01:24 |
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| t9md | qcow2 format is thin-provisioned small disk image, but after-uploaded , nova save template disk image as raw format means, big-actual size disk image. | 01:25 |
| t9md | this cause nova-api hung, and copying compute node is time consuming. | 01:26 |
| uvirtbot` | New bug: #816194 in nova "Nova code coverage percentage unclear" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/816194 | 01:26 |
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| t9md | Is the any way to let nova-api save qcow2 as-is and copy hin-provisoned qcow2. to _base on compute-node. | 01:28 |
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| ike | anyone use H3C switch for openstack nova vlan mode? | 01:32 |
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| HugoKuo__ | deepest , how about the files in tar ball ? | 01:41 |
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| jason | g'day | 01:46 |
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| jasona | so, anyone awake enugh to want to discuss openstack storage ? | 01:47 |
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| kpepple | jasona: what kind of openstack storage ? block (nova-volume) or object (swift) ? | 01:49 |
| HugoKuo__ | interesting | 01:49 |
| HugoKuo__ | I wondering to know the I/O performance of diskless compute-node XD | 01:50 |
| jasona | kpepp: either, both. i'm still reading and trying to get a feel for the project and what it is really trying to do and/or what people are using it for | 01:51 |
| jasona | have a research focused archive storage project which is starting in the 0.2-1P area but eventually wants to scale into ~100-200P. | 01:51 |
| jasona | i'm trying to get a feel for how openstack hooks into the underlying physical storage - and it seemed easiest to talk to someone who has actually put it into use. | 01:52 |
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| kpepple | jasona: so we have Swift (the object storage) going into production for our public cloud later this week | 01:54 |
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| jasona | kpepp: and swift is probably what i am more interested in. how are you implementing it if you can talk about details ? | 01:55 |
| kpepple | jasona: we are based on the cactus codebase which came out in april. what kind of details do you want ? | 01:55 |
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| jasona | kpepp: whatever you're willing to talk about :) what hardware did you run on. what was your learning process with this etc | 01:57 |
| jasona | i assume cactus because diablo isn't actually 'out' yet ? | 01:58 |
| kpepple | jasona: correct | 01:59 |
| HugoKuo__ | kpepple , r u familiar with new Dashboard ,does keynote instance is required ? | 02:00 |
| jasona | kpepp: so, is openstack in your env being run with the other openstack components ? or can you mix and match openstack storage with other technologies ? | 02:00 |
| kpepple | HugoKuo__: haven't installed dashboard since they started "overhualing" it for OS API instead of EC2 API | 02:01 |
| kpepple | jasona: yes, we have a compute (nova) service also | 02:01 |
| HugoKuo__ | kpepple , ok .... I'll have a try with keynote first | 02:02 |
| kpepple | jasona: having said that, swift is an object store not a file server or volume service. it operates conceptually similar to ftp or webdav, not CIF or NFS. | 02:02 |
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| jasona | kpepp: so how do you envision integrating into people who want cifs/nfs etc ? run that as a layer on top ? | 02:05 |
| jasona | i'm trying to figure out whether it's more like samfs as an architecture, rather than a filesystem. | 02:05 |
| jasona | er, samqfs i should say | 02:06 |
| jasona | try to keep thinking in cloud terms instead of local environment terms is hard. sigh | 02:06 |
| kpepple | jasona: it's closer to samfs than nfs, but not really samfs either. basically, you can only put objects, get objects and delete objects. you can group objects into "containers" which emulate folders (but can't be nested). you can't edit objects/files in place -- you have to delete the old file and upload an entire new one. | 02:07 |
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| jasona | hmm. | 02:08 |
| kpepple | jasona: if you want to use it as a filesystems, you'll need something like Fuse ... | 02:08 |
| jasona | so how do you make a container available to.. | 02:08 |
| jasona | ok | 02:08 |
| jasona | i can conceptually deal with a container management system, just figuring out the interfaces into it | 02:08 |
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| jasona | and reading the swift manual is not as enlightening as i'd have hoped :) | 02:09 |
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| kpepple | jasona: it assumes a certain level of intimacy with the codebase ... | 02:09 |
| notmyname | jasona: what parts of swift are you struggling with? (that may not even be the right question, help me if it's not) | 02:10 |
| kpepple | notmyname: you are like a genie who appears when swift is mentioned three times :) | 02:11 |
| notmyname | heh | 02:11 |
| notmyname | actually I was watering the yard and talking to neighbors and just got back to see "swift" highlighted in IRC :-) | 02:12 |
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| notmyname | kpepple: re: "assumes a certain level of intimacy with the codebase" <-- in the highest tradition of man pages ;-) | 02:13 |
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| kpepple | notmyname: it was a compliment | 02:20 |
| kpepple | :0 | 02:20 |
| kpepple | :) | 02:20 |
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| notmyname | thanks. but I know there are improvements that can be made :-) | 02:22 |
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| notmyname | jasona: please don't be quite now. I'm working on a swift presentation right now and I'm sure these same questions will come up if I don't sufficiently cover them in my talk. I need your help too :-) | 02:30 |
| notmyname | s/quite/quiet | 02:30 |
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| dweimer | notmyname: Is your swift presentation targeted at users, developers, or admins? For users, I get a lot of questions about the use cases for swift since it isn't a traditional filesystem. Most of our users still see object storage as an archive replacement for our tape silos and aren't really sure what else it can be used for. | 02:45 |
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| notmyname | dweimer: honestly, I'm not sure who will be attending, so I've included a little of it all. I do have some info on use cases | 02:47 |
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| HugoKuo__ | does the security_group only controll by ec2 API ? | 02:53 |
| HugoKuo__ | I did not see any cmd for security_group in novaclient or nova-manage | 02:54 |
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| jasona | hmm | 03:10 |
| jasona | sorry notmyname, was just on phone to amazon consultant who was giving me his take on openstack :) | 03:11 |
| notmyname | cool | 03:11 |
| notmyname | I'd love to know what he said ;-) | 03:11 |
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| jasona | nothing very controversial - he's not that familiar with openstack. we were just working out what the points of similarity were based on his work with s3/ec2 and so on | 03:12 |
| jasona | but yes, use cases are of most interest | 03:12 |
| jasona | it's hard working out _why_ the people i'm talking to want openstack at this point | 03:13 |
| jasona | and they haven't been able to explain it to me other than waving hands and pointing at nasa | 03:13 |
| jasona | i can wave my hands and point to the shuttle as well, but i'm not sure either of us get anywhere in that process so.. | 03:13 |
| notmyname | swift is good for any use case that involves static (and unstructured) data that can potentially grow very large | 03:14 |
| jasona | how ? | 03:14 |
| jasona | (how is it good in that instance) | 03:14 |
| notmyname | backups, web content, document management, medical imaging, scientific data, disaster recovery, caching, storage appliances, ... | 03:14 |
| notmyname | it is good for these because it is designed to be very scalable across many connections (rather than optimizing one connection) and is designed to work around failures (and therefore can be used with very cheap storage) | 03:15 |
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| notmyname | so for example, when selecting hardware, the biggest concern becomes $/GB (more than CPU, RAM, IOPS) | 03:16 |
| notmyname | (well, assuming a general use case like Rackspace Cloud Files. a more specific use case may have more specific concerns) | 03:17 |
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| jasona | hmm. you've sort of said 'why' but not 'how' to me. | 03:17 |
| jasona | i'm trying to match up in my head the end use case on one end, openstack in the middle and the physical hardware at the other end | 03:18 |
| notmyname | heh. the "how" is much more complex, but it comes down to "it's designed that way" | 03:18 |
| notmyname | one "how" is that there is no central authority and no single point of failure | 03:18 |
| jasona | nono. i appreciate how is complex, but if you ask me to explain say 'dedupe in a filesystem' i can do that at a basic level without necessarily having to get into algorithms and code. | 03:18 |
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| notmyname | another "how" is that the system constantly checks the integrity of objects and repairs as needed | 03:19 |
| jasona | here i'm trying to work out what openstack is giving you over a standard enterprise architecture model , e.g physical boxes, operating system, filesystem, filesystem presentation (e.g cifs/nfs/ftp) | 03:19 |
| jasona | sorry if that seems pretty basic but i want to ensure i'm not missing anything obvious in how one thinks about this. | 03:20 |
| notmyname | no. like I said before, you're helping me too :-) | 03:21 |
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| notmyname | first, swift is not a filesystem. it's not RAID, it's not SAN/DAS/NAS | 03:21 |
| notmyname | swift offers an http rest-ful interface to blobs of data (ie files or objects) | 03:22 |
| notmyname | swift uses commodity hardware and normal filesystems to store the data (we recommend XFS) | 03:23 |
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| dweimer | Small aside on the commodity hardware. Do you know of swift clusters that have tried using desktop class disks rather than enterprise sata? | 03:26 |
| notmyname | dweimer: yes | 03:27 |
| notmyname | (most of them, I think) | 03:27 |
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| notmyname | jasona: another "how": updates can be done to a live, running system with no downtime and relatively little impact to the rest of the cluster | 03:27 |
| dweimer | That's very good to know. I've been in a bit of a battle on that front. | 03:29 |
| notmyname | the how is that swift has a map (called the "ring") that is used to determine where in the cluster an object lives (or should live). the ring can be updated with low impact to the system | 03:29 |
| notmyname | dweimer: we upgrade the code and add and replace servers all the time with cloud files. 0 downtime | 03:29 |
| notmyname | jasona: the ring has similar properties to a consistent hashing ring (where it gets its name), but that concept has been tweaked for our needs. we added the concept of zones within a ring. so we can store stuff in distinct availability zones | 03:33 |
| jasona | hmm | 03:34 |
| jasona | so for me, swift is basically another abstraction layer. | 03:35 |
| jasona | which leads to, does swift sit on top of a fs or under it ? (i have been assuming under it?) | 03:36 |
| notmyname | on top of it | 03:36 |
| jasona | huh. interesting | 03:36 |
| jasona | so you recommend xfs mainly for the scalability of the fs then ? | 03:36 |
| jasona | (e.g into petabytes) | 03:36 |
| notmyname | 1) buy cheap hardware 2) install linux and XFS 3) install swift and point it at the XFS drives 4) store stuff and profit | 03:37 |
| jasona | where can i fit a cifs/nfs/ftp layer in with using swift to access the data ? | 03:37 |
| notmyname | jasona: yes. well, each storage volume is only the size of the drive (so 2-3TB). it's more the sheer number of files. billions and billions | 03:37 |
| jasona | i'm used to thinking in terms of millions of files, but not billions so far. | 03:38 |
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| notmyname | well, I'm not actually sure that there would be billions of inodes on a single xfs drive, but however many there are, XFS handles them better than other file systems | 03:39 |
| jasona | so would you say that some of the things zfs does have been abstracted into swift then ? | 03:40 |
| notmyname | cifs/nfs/ftp are all block-level. swift isn't. so while you can write a translation layer, it will never be very efficient | 03:40 |
| jasona | huh, how would you say 'ftp' is block level ? to me it's file level.. | 03:41 |
| notmyname | perhaps so. it's been a while since I looked at the protocol :-) | 03:43 |
| jasona | ok, so what i am getting at is.. | 03:43 |
| jasona | how do you layer the actual presentation services if swift sits on top | 03:43 |
| jasona | does nfs/cifs etc somehow get access to the fs to access your data, or is there a translation layer (lpepp mentioned fuse) to do that | 03:44 |
| jasona | in plain terms | 03:44 |
| jasona | how does my researcher copy his 100T of data into swift | 03:44 |
| jasona | and then, how do his friends get access to it | 03:44 |
| notmyname | jasona: lots of http PUT requests. ACLs are supported in swift but heavily depend on your auth system. | 03:45 |
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| notmyname | at some level your researchers data will be loaded into swift with PUT requests. you could write a nice client app (or use existing ones like cyberduck) or translation layers (like cloudfuse) | 03:46 |
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| notmyname | jasona: an example might help: http://programmerthoughts.com/programming/quickly-uploading-data-to-cloud-files/ and http://programmerthoughts.com/programming/quickly-uploading-to-cloud-files-part-2/ | 03:51 |
| jasona | hmm | 03:54 |
| jasona | ok. that talks about uploading files | 03:54 |
| jasona | the bit i'm missing is how one actually 'uses' the data once it is in there | 03:55 |
| jasona | e.g there's 100T of say gene sequencing data which someone now wants to access.. | 03:55 |
| notmyname | similarly, use standard http verbs: "GET /v1/joe_researcher/human_dna/chromasome_21.dat HTTP/1.1" | 03:57 |
| jasona | hmm | 03:57 |
| jasona | ok, so the crunch point there is swift ends up being an intermediate repostitory | 03:57 |
| notmyname | how do you mean? | 03:58 |
| jasona | but you can't treat it (uness there's a translation layer) as an operation layer for data manipulation | 03:58 |
| notmyname | like for a distributed processing job? | 03:58 |
| jasona | i can't just point my HPC environment and say - there's 100T of data, you can crunch it in read only mode and output your results into another FS. | 03:58 |
| jasona | i have to say | 03:58 |
| jasona | GET data from swift. do_stuff. repeat | 03:59 |
| notmyname | in (my understanding of) normal HPC jobs, you run the processing where the data is. so if you have 100T sharded across 50 boxes, run 50 jobs and only process locally | 04:00 |
| jasona | sorta yeah. this was the basis for asking about data presentation layers because one attractive thing about that is you can give people access to data sets to do whatever without necessarily needing extra capacity anywhere. | 04:00 |
| jasona | hmm | 04:00 |
| jasona | well, that's not quite how i've been seeing things work in this instance | 04:00 |
| jasona | e.g i look at a traditional sgi hpx environment and it's a whole bunch of cores in one rack talking to a whole bunch of storage in another rack | 04:01 |
| jasona | (s/hpx/hpc) | 04:01 |
| notmyname | I concede ignorane | 04:01 |
| notmyname | ah ok | 04:01 |
| notmyname | so the data is pulled over the network? | 04:01 |
| jasona | i don't think you should concede just yet, i think i'm still picking your brains on this :) | 04:01 |
| jasona | yep, the data can be | 04:02 |
| jasona | here's a scenario for you which gives you what i am dealing with | 04:02 |
| notmyname | then in that case, I think swift could work very well :-) | 04:02 |
| jasona | there's a bunch of compute resource that is in in another state (geography) | 04:02 |
| jasona | say, 100000 cores worth of compute | 04:02 |
| jasona | there's a research data set that is ~1PB that lives here on basically X physical spindles (iops,capacity) with Y bandwidth. | 04:03 |
| jasona | bandwidth is defined as lowest available amount which in this case is 10GB ethernet and/or 40/100 GB ethernet available between storage and compute | 04:03 |
| jasona | does that sort of make sense to you ? i.e what i'm trying to explain | 04:04 |
| notmyname | I think so | 04:04 |
| jasona | so one way of doing this without abstraction layers is fairly simple | 04:04 |
| jasona | i have say a storage array. it does the raid etc. i present that storage to a server, it puts a FS on top. it then runs a web server or nfs or cifs or whatever. | 04:05 |
| jasona | and if i put the 1PB of research data onto that FS, the presentation layer makes it available to the compute by just mounting it over there. | 04:05 |
| jasona | i'm not saying this is a good way of doing it, just.. one way | 04:05 |
| notmyname | ok :-) | 04:05 |
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| jasona | ok, so the question then becomes 'if this is one way and its pretty clear to follow the workflow on access' i am trying to understand the workflows around using swift in addition to this | 04:06 |
| notmyname | give me just a couple of minutes. I need to go turn off the water in the yard | 04:06 |
| jasona | sure. and i have to go walk the dogs soon and give away some chicken eggs to neighbours :) | 04:08 |
| notmyname | back | 04:08 |
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| jasona | re. | 04:09 |
| jasona | so yeah, with filesystems like xfs that scale to billions of files | 04:09 |
| jasona | and with filesystems like zfs that do dedupe, crc checking and so on | 04:09 |
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| jasona | i'm still wrapping my head around what swift adds into this | 04:09 |
| dweimer | I think one advantage you would get from swift in your example is scalable aggregate bandwidth. For the NFS module you need to shard your data to hit 40/100gb right? Or are you using something like pnfs? | 04:12 |
| notmyname | storing 1PB of data with a single filesystem is hard. most filesystems break down. rebuild times for RAID gets really really long (zfs too? I've got a 3.5TB zfs server at home but nothing big). as dweimer points out, swift excels at aggregate throughput | 04:13 |
| notmyname | I'm assuming you aren't thinking this is one file (object in swift) that is 1PB, right? aggregate the data is 1PB, but it is actually many many smaller fileS? | 04:15 |
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| notmyname | swift would be much better with the many many smaller files (in fact, 1PB of data can be represented in swift as one object, but it mush be stored in smaller chunks) | 04:16 |
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| notmyname | jasona: this may be a horrible analogy, but swift is similar to zfs in that it exposes a storage pool made up of many discrete storage volumes. however, swift is not block-level and it stores distinct replicas of the data (rather than parity bits and/or striping) | 04:20 |
| jasona | hmm | 04:22 |
| jasona | well i wasn't really thinking about HOW swift did it but yes i see what you're saying | 04:23 |
| notmyname | swift can be seen as a key/value store (but isn't everything a key/value store at some level?). keys are the object name (URL) and values are the object data | 04:23 |
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| jasona | i'm still thinking about WHY you swift and HOW you do the things you are doing now, and figuring out where swift fits into it. | 04:23 |
| jasona | this is why i keep saying 'abstraction layer' because its fairly easy to think about this in layer format | 04:24 |
| notmyname | how the code works or how one uses swift to get your example workflow done? | 04:24 |
| jasona | the latter | 04:24 |
| jasona | i don't care that much about how the code works because i have an engineering background | 04:24 |
| jasona | if it works, great, and if it's broken, patch it ;) | 04:24 |
| jasona | (apologies to engineers who take offence) | 04:25 |
| notmyname | heh. patches _always_ welcome ;-) | 04:25 |
| jasona | so yeah, i'm working out swift in the workflow because i'm trying to see how that reflects on the layers underneath as well as above | 04:25 |
| notmyname | so let me "think out loud" about how I would do your example workflow | 04:26 |
| jasona | i'm dealing with storage vendors that don't seem to understand that you don't necessarily need 'features' in their storage engines (controllers/software) anymore | 04:26 |
| jasona | sure, thanks. | 04:27 |
| notmyname | first start with a large, empty swift cluster. many servers, many drives, well connected network (do you need more detail here?) | 04:27 |
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| notmyname | then load the dataset into the cluster. shard the data across objects (perhaps 1GB in size each). if needed, create a manifest file that allows you to access the complete dataset as one logical object | 04:29 |
| jasona | nope. except do you use drivs in servers ? | 04:29 |
| notmyname | yes | 04:29 |
| jasona | i.e is there any reason not to use storage arrays if they are cheap ? | 04:29 |
| jasona | (i.e equivalent cost) | 04:30 |
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| jasona | e.g think backblaze pods as one concept (even though its a server really..) | 04:30 |
| notmyname | servers could be head units with JBODs filled with consumer drives (whatever is cheapest) | 04:30 |
| jasona | ok. go on | 04:30 |
| jasona | lets assume many servers is ~100, many drives is approx 1200 and well connected network is 10Gb interfaces. | 04:31 |
| notmyname | backblaze is interesting...but that's another discussion | 04:31 |
| jasona | (if that's ok?) | 04:31 |
| notmyname | sure. sounds great | 04:31 |
| jasona | which is good because that's approx 2 racks. which is a nice unit of measurement :) | 04:31 |
| jasona | er, 5 racks i mean | 04:31 |
| jasona | so go on.. | 04:32 |
| notmyname | next, write the worker that will fetch a chunk and process it. fancy things like queueing or map/reduce or etc could be added here, but most simply the worker gets an object name to load, loads it, and processes it. it can even store the result in a separate account/container in the swift cluster | 04:33 |
| notmyname | fire up your fancy blaster, and send the workers to your 100K cores | 04:34 |
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| notmyname | fin | 04:37 |
| jasona | hmm | 04:39 |
| jasona | well i appreciate that but that's the ... bit before 'profit' isn't it :) | 04:40 |
| jasona | i.e someone has already written cifs or nfs.. but means someone has to create that worker interface before you can use the data in question ? | 04:40 |
| uvirtbot` | New bug: #816236 in nova "Initial 'nova db sync' migration failure on mysql due to foreign key reference" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/816236 | 04:42 |
| notmyname | I don't think that's the same | 04:42 |
| notmyname | someone has already written cifs is the same as someone has already written swift | 04:42 |
| notmyname | your worker shouldn't know or care about the underlying fs in the swift cluster | 04:42 |
| notmyname | so the worker talks "swift" rather than "cifs" | 04:43 |
| jasona | hmm | 04:43 |
| notmyname | for your layers: hardware -> os -> fs -> swift -> user | 04:43 |
| jasona | well you have given me stuff to think about so thanks for the time. i haven't yet resolved in my head exactly how to proceed yet but i may just need to do a lot more reading. | 04:44 |
| jasona | yeah. it's the swift -> user bit i'm thinking about | 04:44 |
| notmyname | jasona: if you by any chance are at oscon, I'll be giving a talk on swift on wednesday | 04:44 |
| jasona | especially since with the layers i may need to paritition up that a chunk of it is swift, a chunk of it is file and a chunk is traditional block (except i'd be looking at ip based block of course) | 04:45 |
| jasona | uhm, not at oscon sorry (not in the right country :-) is anyone broadcasting your talk on the net ? | 04:45 |
| notmyname | no idea. I didn't know I was going until last Thursday :-) | 04:45 |
| notmyname | I'll post my slides up somewhere, I know. I wouldn't be surprised if it will be filmed | 04:46 |
| jasona | if it's filmed and streamed, that'd be great. but getting your slides would be cool as well | 04:47 |
| jasona | are you working in the commercial side or the uni/research side of infrastructure ? | 04:47 |
| notmyname | commercial. I work for Rackspace on the Cloud Files product | 04:47 |
| jasona | ahh | 04:48 |
| jasona | one of my previous employers used rackspace. in a very very trivial way. had a single rackspace server instance used for monitoring :) | 04:48 |
| jasona | so you do the whole fanatical thing then ? | 04:48 |
| jasona | and in terms of cloud files, is that intended to scale upto (past?) aws/s3/ec2 ? | 04:49 |
| notmyname | cloud files is a direct competitor to s3 | 04:50 |
| adam_g | notmyname: wheres the swift talk? | 04:50 |
| jasona | yeah i figured, was just curious where you guys saw yourselves relative to s3. | 04:50 |
| jasona | <+notmyname> jasona: if you by any chance are at oscon, I'll be giving a talk on swift on wednesday | 04:50 |
| jasona | i think that's in oregon ? | 04:50 |
| adam_g | er | 04:51 |
| adam_g | i meant, where at OSCON? im attending but dont remember seeing that listed anywhere on the schedule | 04:51 |
| jasona | oh sorry :) | 04:51 |
| notmyname | adam_g: E141 at 4:10 it looks liek | 04:51 |
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| notmyname | http://www.oscon.com/oscon2011/public/schedule/detail/21287 | 04:52 |
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| notmyname | I didn't write the summary, so it will be (very slightly) different | 04:52 |
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| adam_g | oh, i think i passed over that as being an introductory session | 04:53 |
| notmyname | adam_g: np. like I said earlier, I'm not sure who the audience will be. I'm sure I'll have to adjust | 04:54 |
| notmyname | maybe an opening line of "This talk assumes a basic familiarity with the CAP theorem and the dynamo paper. You'll remember that in section 5 of the paper that...." | 04:55 |
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| jasona | heh | 04:56 |
| jasona | now, was that combar air patrol theory or columbia appletalk protocol ? | 04:56 |
| notmyname | yes :-) | 04:57 |
| dweimer | CAP is a good point actually. Some of our users they are thrown off by eventual consistency. Being used to filesystems, they don't expect it. | 04:57 |
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| jasona | dweimer: can you elaborate please ? | 04:59 |
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| notmyname | I've got a plane to catch tomorrow and I still need to pack. gotta run | 05:01 |
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| notmyname | good talk though :-) | 05:01 |
| jasona | cyas NMN. good luck with talk | 05:01 |
| jasona | sorry i will miss it in person but.. can't see making the US in the next 24h :) | 05:02 |
| jasona | and yay, now following on g+ :) | 05:03 |
| dweimer | jasona: Swift has processes on the backend to synchronize the various replicas. This is useful for data reliability. If you have a node go offline or become unresponsive, it will be brought back up to date when it is restored. The drawback is that some changes aren't immediately reflected on all nodes. | 05:04 |
| jasona | ah. hmm | 05:04 |
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| dweimer | A recent example was a web interface we are trying to develop. You can delete a container and the bytes used for your account doesn't immediately decrease. | 05:05 |
| jasona | well i certainly understand the bit about being used to a 'filesystem' and updates seeming to go through 'immediately' in that instance | 05:05 |
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| dweimer | If you do decide to test with swift, I would be interested in your experiences. Our clusters aren't that large, but it sounds like our use cases are similar. | 05:10 |
| dweimer | We're also looking at using swift for archiving data after compute. Using lustre during the compute job and then migrating it to swift for archive and external access. | 05:10 |
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| jasona | hmm | 05:49 |
| jasona | are you using swift at sdsc dweimer ? | 05:49 |
| jasona | and i don't consider 100x servers or 1-2pb large anymore, not with cheap storage :) | 05:50 |
| jasona | and not when backblaze is pushing a model of ~200t < $10k nowadays! (different paradigms i know but still) | 05:50 |
| jasona | that said, takes me a while to wrap my head around 1000x servers or 100PB. | 05:51 |
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| mandela | hi,i add a nova-compute node ,but can not find it in the database | 07:08 |
| mandela | i wonder the compute node will connect to the controler | 07:09 |
| mandela | how can i find where the problem is | 07:09 |
| mandela | i have config the node with the ec2_host | 07:10 |
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| mandela | is there any can help me | 07:11 |
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| vishy | mandela: you need to set rabbit_host and sql_connection flags | 07:26 |
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| koolhead11 | hi all | 07:39 |
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| giany | hello | 07:47 |
| giany | when running swauth-prep -K key -A http://<AUTH_HOSTNAME>:8080/auth/ | 07:48 |
| giany | I get this message : http://paste.openstack.org/show/1944/ | 07:48 |
| giany | any idea why? | 07:48 |
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| Funnnny | Hello all | 08:03 |
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| Fu4ny | hi, i'm thinking about using swift to store photo in a photo gallery | 08:15 |
| Fu4ny | I heard that swift is more fit to a static object (like VM image, backup content) than dynamic content like photos | 08:15 |
| Fu4ny | will it fit in my use-case, and can I upgrade the system to store photos to store user conten (like DropBox) | 08:16 |
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| Fu4ny | I would be happy if anyone can answer even if I'm not here :) | 08:21 |
| Fu4ny | going to check in eavesdrop log | 08:21 |
| vishy | Fu4ny: why would you say photos are dynamic? | 08:22 |
| vishy | Fu4ny: seems like a perfectly reasonable use case for swift to me | 08:22 |
| Fu4ny | my application lets users to resize, apply image effect... | 08:23 |
| vishy | ah i see | 08:24 |
| Fu4ny | when an object changed, I have to delete the old and upload a completly new ones, right ? | 08:24 |
| vishy | yes you would need to store each version | 08:24 |
| Fu4ny | so I think my solution is somewhere else | 08:26 |
| vishy | perhaps | 08:27 |
| vishy | seems like any storage would have the same issue | 08:27 |
| vishy | seems like image effect and resizing is going to change the source enough that you will have to rewrite the file anyway | 08:28 |
| Fu4ny | if I wanna to change the service to store anything other than image | 08:29 |
| Fu4ny | I'm worrying if it fit | 08:30 |
| Fu4ny | something like Dropbox | 08:30 |
| reidrac | Fu4ny: ask yourself if you could Amazon S3 as storage service (dropbox uses S3) | 08:30 |
| reidrac | *could use | 08:31 |
| Fu4ny | okay, I'll take a look | 08:31 |
| Fu4ny | maybe it's a reasonable choice | 08:32 |
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| anhdungcha | Hey guys | 09:15 |
| anhdungcha | Do U know about VNC on Dashboard? | 09:15 |
| anhdungcha | Please help me | 09:15 |
| anhdungcha | I got some errors information like this http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/415/dashboard3.png | 09:16 |
| anhdungcha | the dashboard run ok like this http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/220/dashboard2c.jpg/ | 09:17 |
| anhdungcha | Do I need to do anything for this problem? | 09:18 |
| anhdungcha | how can I solve that error? | 09:18 |
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| BK_man | anhdungcha: please check that your host 172.18.15.35 is able to resolve (via hosts or DNS) your compute nodes (where nova-compute is running). that might be an issue | 09:29 |
| anhdungcha | in the recent | 09:30 |
| anhdungcha | 172.18.15.35 is cloud controler | 09:30 |
| anhdungcha | my computer worker is 172.18.15.37 | 09:31 |
| BK_man | anhdungcha: I see. check your output of nova-manage service list and try to reach your compute worker from CC by name (ping HOSTNAME). Don't use an IP address | 09:31 |
| anhdungcha | You want me to change to computer worker IP, right? | 09:31 |
| BK_man | anhdungcha: no. Please read my advice above | 09:32 |
| anhdungcha | just me a moment | 09:32 |
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| BK_man | anhdungcha: you can find a name of your compute worker in output of "nova-manage service list" command | 09:34 |
| anhdungcha | I tried to ping but I got the informatin is Unknown host | 09:36 |
| BK_man | fix that and your VNC console will be operational | 09:36 |
| BK_man | put '172.18.15.36 your_compute_worker_hostname" into /etc/hosts on cc | 09:37 |
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| anhdungcha | thank you so much | 09:38 |
| anhdungcha | I solved my problem | 09:38 |
| anhdungcha | :) | 09:38 |
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| ljl1 | hi,all. I have a problem. If one of storage nodes fails, such as network problem or power off, can swift automaticlly reassign patitions? | 09:44 |
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| reidrac | I won't use it if it's offline, but in order to reassign partitions I think you need to remove the missing drives from the ring and then rebalance the cluster | 09:45 |
| reidrac | *it won't use it | 09:45 |
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| ljl1 | Do i have to remove the missing driver manully? | 09:50 |
| reidrac | yes, you do | 09:50 |
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| ljl1 | And I found that if I manully modify the ring, add or remove a driver, then I have to scp /etc/swift/*.ring.gz to all the storage nodes. otherwise, the chageing doesn't effect. | 09:53 |
| ljl1 | Is thant right? | 09:54 |
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| reidrac | I think so, otherwise the other storage nodes won't know they have to manage new partitions | 10:00 |
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| ahale- | yeah you'd need to redistribute the ring to all the storage and proxy nodes | 10:05 |
| ljl1 | If it is true, then i don't think swift fits for huge storage clusters. Because It needs a adminstrator working in 24 hours | 10:06 |
| jahor | hello, anybody used opennebula and openstack and could share some experince and notes for using in production ? | 10:10 |
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| Fu4ny | opennebula has many sample in production, like CERN | 10:11 |
| ljl1 | Another question: how proxy server knows if a storage node fail? I cann't find any information about storage nodes in /etc/log/syslog on proxy server? | 10:11 |
| Fu4ny | openstack does not | 10:11 |
| Fu4ny | jahor: i'm talking about nova vs opennebula as it's more comparable | 10:12 |
| Fu4ny | opennebula doesn't have feature like swift | 10:12 |
| jahor | Fu4ny: thanx. from my wiew it looks like opennebula is not that complicated, but it's not AWS replica, have (too) simplistic ip address assignment and not complicated storage ... and that's what interrests me in openstack as more powerfull sollution | 10:20 |
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| Fu4ny | yeah, opennebula is a more simple (not that simple) than openstack if you just want to enable deploy VM | 10:22 |
| Fu4ny | openstack is more complicated but you can do more with it | 10:23 |
| jahor | Fu4ny: the problem is i want it for production enviroment not only testing environment, so some thins will be valuable | 10:23 |
| Fu4ny | both will fit production | 10:24 |
| Fu4ny | it's the matter of what you need :) | 10:24 |
| jahor | Fu4ny: interesting as you say is that openstack does not have so much production examples, because i see more hype about it | 10:24 |
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| Fu4ny | it doesn't have big production example | 10:25 |
| Fu4ny | it's still new ;) | 10:25 |
| jahor | Fu4ny: thanks for sharing. it looks like i must try booth ;o) | 10:25 |
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| kaigoh | hi there! | 10:36 |
| kaigoh | just looking for some help if possible? | 10:36 |
| kaigoh | I'm coming from a VMWare background...so bear with me! | 10:36 |
| kaigoh | At the minute, I am really confused with how networking and IP addressing works with clouds like openstack | 10:37 |
| kaigoh | I.e. under vmware, I can assign two NICs, one with a (real) public IP and another with an internal class c ip. Can I do the same with openstack, and if so, can you point me in the right direction for some more detail? | 10:38 |
| kaigoh | hello? | 10:42 |
| Fu4ny | someone will drop-by and answer you later | 10:43 |
| Fu4ny | you should mention the component you're asking | 10:43 |
| Fu4ny | like "nova-network" | 10:43 |
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| kaigoh | is there a really in depth getting started guide to openstack anywhere? | 10:44 |
| reidrac | ljl1: sorry, I'm kind of busy :( -- you should get logs when there's a problem communicating with a storage node | 10:44 |
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| reidrac | and these log entries will tell you which storage node is causing trouble | 10:46 |
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| giany | any idea why it shows this X-Storage-Url: http://127.0.0.1:8080/v1/AUTH_695230a4-bde8-4d0d-b665-b6e2c052d2d6 | 10:47 |
| giany | I need to access the storage from a different location.. | 10:47 |
| giany | where can I change that param? | 10:47 |
| reidrac | giany: which auth system are you using? | 10:49 |
| reidrac | the auth middleware is the one returning the URL of the proxy after the authentication | 10:49 |
| reidrac | I would check the auth service configuration | 10:49 |
| giany | reidrac: i'm using sawuth | 10:51 |
| giany | this is how my proxy file looks like | 10:52 |
| giany | http://paste.openstack.org/show/1945/ | 10:52 |
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| reidrac | giany: I've never used swauth, sorry | 10:54 |
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| jasona | g'day | 11:11 |
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| uvirtbot` | New bug: #816386 in glance "test_scrubber functional tests fail on package build" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/816386 | 12:16 |
| sandywalsh | o/ | 12:17 |
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| nagyz | hi there | 12:42 |
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| nagyz | I'm trying to get the diablo packages working from griddynamic's yum repository on RHEL6, without any luck | 12:43 |
| nagyz | in the past, nova-network used to automatically create the bridge, and set it up | 12:43 |
| nagyz | based on google, I've managed to figure out that I need to specify the bridge_interface to nova-manage when I add a network | 12:43 |
| nagyz | what else changed in this regard? | 12:43 |
| giany | any idea if there is any documentation related to S3 compatibility? | 12:44 |
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| nagyz | or should I just go back to theolder release.. | 12:46 |
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| brendan__ | Hi has anyone managed to get windows 7 running on openstack | 13:07 |
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| nagyz | huh/ | 13:11 |
| nagyz | ? | 13:11 |
| nagyz | what do they have to do with each other? | 13:11 |
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| sandywalsh | ttx, I don't think I'm getting enough emails from you. Could you send more please? :) | 13:15 |
| * ttx considers accepting even more money to refuse working | 13:16 | |
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| sandywalsh | haha | 13:19 |
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| uvirtbot` | New bug: #816406 in nova "Service stats needs to be unified across virt layer" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/816406 | 13:21 |
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| creiht | giany: you need to change the default storage url for swauth middleware | 13:38 |
| giany | creiht: i got it sorted | 13:38 |
| giany | same for the Q i asked on pm | 13:38 |
| creiht | ahh cool | 13:39 |
| giany | i tried to use an S3 tool | 13:39 |
| creiht | as to the s3 compatibility, we don't have a lot in the way of documentation yet | 13:39 |
| creiht | http://swift.openstack.org/misc.html#module-swift.common.middleware.swift3 | 13:39 |
| creiht | Is all that is available at the moment | 13:40 |
| giany | i found this Q | 13:40 |
| giany | https://answers.launchpad.net/swift/+question/154332 | 13:40 |
| giany | i was able to make that to work.. | 13:40 |
| creiht | k | 13:40 |
| giany | though..it would be nice so instead of system:<account> to use an KEY similar to what S3 have | 13:40 |
| giany | but i guess its ok like that too | 13:41 |
| creiht | yeah that is more of a side effect of how our auth works | 13:41 |
| giany | anyway i was able to test this..and after a few days of playing arround..i was able to set it up and to run some tests | 13:43 |
| creiht | cool | 13:43 |
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| Flint | notmyname: Hi again, regarding our missing data in account_stats, I did a HEAD on the missing account and it came back with the expected data. Yesterday you mentioned that (continued) | 13:46 |
| Flint | notmyname: if the HEAD was accurate, but account_stats isn't, it means the "account updater" isn't running. We don't see anything in the Swift repository called "account updater". Is it also know by another name? | 13:48 |
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| creiht | Flint: it is actually the swift-container-updater | 13:49 |
| creiht | it makes sure that each container has reported the correct information up to the account | 13:49 |
| Flint | notmyname: ok, so that is something that we normally start (swift-init container-updater start) and I see it running on all 4 storage nodes. BTW, yesterday I switched over from our SAIO instance to our multi-node instance (continued | 13:53 |
| Flint | notmyname: to see if the same problems exist there (and they do). The account_stats is missing one or more users and container_stats is missing one or more containers for each user. | 13:54 |
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| creiht | Flint: the first thing I would do is check the logs on each storage server to make sure the updaters are not encountering any errors | 13:55 |
| Flint | creiht: Thanks! will do. | 13:57 |
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| creiht | The most common reason for this is usually a configuration error | 13:57 |
| creiht | Flint: you can also do HEAD requests to each account, just to see if those are correct | 13:58 |
| creiht | that should help you narrow down if the problem you are having is in the updators, or in the stats collection | 13:58 |
| Flint | creiht: yeah, the HEAD requests look good (they show all the expected values) | 13:59 |
| creiht | ok | 13:59 |
| creiht | then I will have to defer to notmyname for the stats stuff :) | 13:59 |
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| Flint | creiht: one more question please...I see we are getting some container-updater timeout errors. they say that the operation will be retried later, but I'm unsure how to verify that. (continued) | 14:02 |
| creiht | Flint: how big is your cluster? | 14:03 |
| primeministerp | creiht: that sounds personal | 14:03 |
| primeministerp | creiht: ;) | 14:03 |
| creiht | heh | 14:03 |
| Flint | creiht: Each storage node only has 1 partition, would it help to increas the partitions to minimize these timeouts. | 14:03 |
| creiht | oh | 14:03 |
| creiht | 1 drive partition, or 1 ring partition | 14:03 |
| creiht | ? | 14:03 |
| Flint | creiht: both (I believe) | 14:04 |
| creiht | Flint: when you initialized the ring, what partition power of 2 did you use? | 14:04 |
| nagyz | shouldnt nova-network (as of cactus) create br100 automatically? | 14:04 |
| creiht | or did you follow the default multi-node instructions? | 14:04 |
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| Flint | creiht: the default (I think). the numbers I see in our remakerings is 18, 3, 1 | 14:06 |
| creiht | Flint: ok, then you should be good there | 14:06 |
| uksysadmin | hello all. quick q on messaging... are there any changes to the messaging bus used or is it all still rabbitmq? | 14:07 |
| Flint | creiht: so the timeouts are a red herring to solve our problem? so are you saying that if the HEAD responses are correct, then the problem is likely to be in the stats gathering? | 14:07 |
| creiht | Flint: In general the timeout occurs because the account db on that node is too busy handling other requests to handle that one in time | 14:07 |
| creiht | Flint: my hunch is in stats gathering | 14:08 |
| creiht | Flint: There are a lot of things that can cause the timeout | 14:09 |
| Flint | creiht: ok, thanks. we'll try to catch notmyname later. Thanks again for all your help! (and by the way, I'm not ashamed of my cluster size...grin) | 14:09 |
| nagyz | so, uh, anyone using cactus on rhel6? | 14:10 |
| giany | nagyz: i used the openstack object storage on centos 6 | 14:11 |
| nagyz | I'd like to use compute and network | 14:11 |
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| creiht | Flint: It may be that if you have a small number accounts, the container updater is running through the containers so fast that it is overwhelming the accounts with the updates | 14:14 |
| creiht | if that is the case, you can help that a bit by adjusting slowdown and account_suppression_time under [container-updater] in the container-server.conf | 14:14 |
| creiht | and maybe lowering the concurrency | 14:15 |
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| creiht | of course once your cluster grows, you will want to adjust those back :) | 14:16 |
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| nagyz | what I'd like to know is why I don't see br100 created automatically upon starting network | 14:20 |
| creiht | nagyz: I don't have relevant experience in that area, but I'm sure if you wait around a bit someone will be able to answer your question | 14:21 |
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| nagyz | upon starting an instance, it created br100 | 14:33 |
| nagyz | however, the VM can't get an IP thru DHCP | 14:33 |
| nagyz | but dnsmasq is running | 14:33 |
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| huslage | nagyz: what's the error? | 15:30 |
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| kim0 | soren: Hi there, your openstack session should start in 30 mins .. Please ping me to confirm you'll be ready. Thanks a lot | 15:33 |
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| nagyz | huslage, it's working now. | 15:40 |
| nagyz | :) | 15:40 |
| nagyz | the problem was that the firewall blocked it | 15:40 |
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| soren | kim0: I'm ready now. | 15:42 |
| soren | kim0: Just needed to find some wifi coverage :) | 15:42 |
| kim0 | soren: phew great :) | 15:42 |
| kim0 | soren: thanks a lot | 15:42 |
| soren | kim0: Sorry about that. :) | 15:44 |
| kim0 | hehe no problemo | 15:44 |
| kim0 | @everyone .. Howdy folks, Ubuntu cloud days (day-2) starting in #ubuntu-classroom on the hour .. see you there | 15:45 |
| larissa | kim0: Error: "everyone" is not a valid command. | 15:45 |
| kim0 | oops | 15:45 |
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| koolhead17 | soren: hey | 17:22 |
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| uvirtbot` | New bug: #816555 in nova "Attach volume fails with NameError: global name 'vol' is not defined" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/816555 | 17:47 |
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| soren | koolhead17: hey | 18:05 |
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| koolhead17 | soren: long time. how have you been? | 18:07 |
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| soren | koolhead17: disconnected, mostly. | 18:08 |
| soren | koolhead17: :) | 18:08 |
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| soren | koolhead17: and you? | 18:08 |
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| koolhead17 | soren: good. disconnected as well. openstack is changing like anything :) | 18:09 |
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| uvirtbot` | New bug: #816601 in nova "OSAPI: 500 error on bad server personality contents" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/816601 | 19:06 |
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| koolhead17 | annegentle: around | 19:19 |
| uvirtbot` | New bug: #816604 in nova "OSAPI: created and updated for /servers have incorrect time format" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/816604 | 19:22 |
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| uvirtbot` | New bug: #816612 in nova "add_fixed_ip_to_instance() now requires host for multi-host networks" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/816612 | 19:31 |
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| annegentle | koolhead17: yup, what's up? | 19:40 |
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| koolhead17 | annegentle: am good. i was wondering how is documentation handled currently, as every release say cactus/bexar/diablo has major change among them self. | 19:42 |
| koolhead17 | I don`t think a common documentation for openstack as whole is a great idea. :P | 19:42 |
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| mfischer | why not? | 19:44 |
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| koolhead17 | mfischer: because the documentation should cater everyone and every release IMHO | 19:46 |
| mfischer | not sure I follow... | 19:46 |
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| annegentle | koolhead17, mfischer: yes it's a tough spot. So the docs.openstack.org site has bexar/ cactus/ trunk/ directories now. | 19:52 |
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| annegentle | but there's a lot of churn as you can imagine. | 19:52 |
| koolhead17 | annegentle: yay!! :) | 19:53 |
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| koolhead17 | annegentle: cool. | 19:53 |
| annegentle | and I'm being asked to put together an /api/ sub directory as well - because the 1.1 API will work against cactus and diablo and so on. So an API doesn't need to track with an OpenStack release. | 19:53 |
| _et | annegentle: the new arch dia is waaaay better than the earlier one | 19:53 |
| annegentle | currently I update cactus manually, and trunk updates are automated | 19:53 |
| annegentle | _et: ah, good. Yes, incremental improvements, absolutely. | 19:54 |
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| koolhead17 | annegentle: indeed :) | 19:54 |
| annegentle | what's awkward about the openstack-manuals doc project is that I'm the bottleneck for fixes to the Cactus docs | 19:54 |
| annegentle | so I should try to figure out with the CI team if we can automate cactus builds separately from trunk builds. I know we can, just have to set it up. | 19:55 |
| _et | annegentle: we are here to help | 19:55 |
| koolhead17 | _et: +1 | 19:55 |
| annegentle | _et: love the contributions already, definitely supporting more people in getting started with the Image Management chapter. | 19:56 |
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| _et | annegentle: +ttx shed some light on the arch and control flow... will trouble you if I need more help.. :) | 19:57 |
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| _et | annegentle: btw what tz are you on? | 19:58 |
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| parkerro | question about stats configuration on multi-node? There appears to be a gz file for each storage node? In our 4 node cluster all the entries are triplets and most have the same numeric data. I assume this shows the replication. Is this correct? | 20:05 |
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| annegentle | I'm in Austin TX so GMT -6 I guess? | 20:12 |
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| murkk | I cannot seem to to migrate the glance registry database | 20:17 |
| murkk | sqlalchemy.exc.OperationalError: (OperationalError) unable to open database file None None | 20:17 |
| murkk | the command I use is: glance-manage --config-file=/etc/glance/glance-registry.conf --sql-connection="sqlite:///var/lib/glance/glance.sqlite" db_sync | 20:18 |
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| murkk | the sqlite file does exist | 20:18 |
| parkerro | notmyname: working with Flint, we are trying to verify that there are indeed supposed to be "duplicate" data for containers in the container_stats for a given hour? | 20:19 |
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| uvirtbot` | New bug: #816630 in nova "broadcast ip is being assigned out as IP address" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/816630 | 20:36 |
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| mwhooker | Hello. I got a 404 for http://nova.openstack.org/Twisted-10.0.0Nova.tar.gz when running python ./tools/install_venv.py in Nova | 20:41 |
| mwhooker | is Twisted still a dependency? | 20:41 |
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| kpepple | mwhooker: i think it is still used for nova-objectstore ... | 20:54 |
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| mwhooker | kpepple: okay, thanks. Any idea if the link has moved? | 21:01 |
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| kpepple | mwhooker: my guess is that the version we are using is no longer offered and has been pulled from pypi. twisted is still at http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ | 21:02 |
| mwhooker | the version the venv script uses was hosted at http://nova.openstack.org/Twisted-10.0.0Nova.tar.gz | 21:03 |
| kpepple | mwhooker: ohhh ... didn't realize we had our own version | 21:04 |
| mwhooker | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~hudson-openstack/nova/trunk/view/head:/tools/install_venv.py#L33 | 21:04 |
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| creiht | kpepple: yeah at one time I think they had some special patches? | 21:05 |
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| mwhooker | anyway, I'm looking for that file if anyone knows where it went | 21:14 |
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| uvirtbot` | New bug: #816699 in nova "skipped tests need to be reenabled" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/816699 | 23:01 |
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| dijenerate | so... where do I get started? | 23:10 |
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| uvirtbot` | New bug: #816713 in nova "instance launching broken when using nova-api generated imageRefs through osapi" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/816713 | 23:31 |
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| uvirtbot` | New bug: #816725 in nova "pep8 failures" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/816725 | 23:42 |
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