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| klindgren | Hello - any ml2 dev's on here or anyone using ml2 and flat networking? I cannot get flat networking working under ml2 - following any configuration I can find on the web. The result is always the same: vif_type=binding failed. | 00:04 |
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| ade_b | hi guys, Im just following through the docs here http://docs.openstack.org/havana/install-guide/install/yum/content/glance-install.html | 11:42 |
| ade_b | and I need some help on step 5 | 11:42 |
| pacy_ | What is step 5 | 11:43 |
| ade_b | openstack-config --set /etc/glance/glance-api.conf keystone_authtoken auth_host controller | 11:43 |
| ade_b | the part Im not sure is | 11:43 |
| ade_b | keystone_authtoken | 11:43 |
| ade_b | is this the glance user password | 11:43 |
| ade_b | or the glance db password | 11:43 |
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| ade_b | or is it my keystone admin password? | 11:45 |
| ade_b | pr maybe its the literal word keystone_authtoken | 11:47 |
| ade_b | as its not in italics | 11:47 |
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| MichielHN | have you tried it? | 12:25 |
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| ade_b | MichielHN, me? | 12:28 |
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| MichielHN | yes | 12:29 |
| ade_b | MichielHN, I went with the string "keystone_authtoken" and it seemed to work thanks | 12:30 |
| MichielHN | tada :) | 12:30 |
| ade_b | :) | 12:30 |
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| chandankumar | http://ciypro.wordpress.com/2013/12/21/the-day-when-i-hunted-down-14-bugs-myself-on-openstack-doc-bugs-day/ | 14:17 |
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| jeid64 | Hey, everybody. Could someone possibly help me with some iptables/nova-network/nova-metadata-api problems? | 16:22 |
| jeid64 | I'm running a multiple compute node setup where I have nova-network, nova-metadata-api, and nova-compute running on every node | 16:23 |
| jeid64 | My VM's are unable to access the metadata service at 169.254.169.254. I can curl the metadata_host from the compute node, but not from inside the VM | 16:23 |
| jeid64 | For some reason, nova-metadata-api seems unable to add the DNAT rule. It doesn't come up anywhere in my iptables -t nat -L | 16:24 |
| jeid64 | And if I try to put in the DNAT rule by hand, it doesn't help at all. | 16:24 |
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| jeid64 | My fresh nat table http://pastebin.com/X0gnnajw | 16:25 |
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| * Sam-I-Am isnt familiar with nova-network :/ | 16:26 | |
| Qlawy | its easier than neutron | 16:26 |
| Qlawy | but multi-host environament is strange for me | 16:26 |
| Sam-I-Am | i think so too, but i havent actually installed it | 16:27 |
| Sam-I-Am | my project specifically called out neutron | 16:27 |
| Sam-I-Am | i need to try nova-net though | 16:27 |
| Qlawy | however its deprecated | 16:27 |
| Sam-I-Am | well, kind of | 16:27 |
| Sam-I-Am | i havent seen any specifics around it going away, even in ice house | 16:27 |
| Sam-I-Am | i think right now nova-net is more robust in some areas | 16:28 |
| Sam-I-Am | or the docs are better | 16:28 |
| jeid64 | Neutron was broken for what I wanted and no matter what amount of bashing I tried I could not get it to work. All I wanted to do is have my VM's use a bridged interface. | 16:28 |
| jeid64 | Now my VM's have networking over a bridged interface but can't contact the metadata-api server. | 16:28 |
| Qlawy | jeid64: show us iptables -t nat -S | 16:29 |
| Qlawy | -L is less readable | 16:29 |
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| jeid64 | Qlawy: You got it, http://pastebin.com/8sFpHwmZ | 16:30 |
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| jeid64 | This guy here at http://www.mirantis.com/blog/openstack-networking-single-host-flatdhcpmanager/ says -A nova-network-PREROUTING -d 169.254.169.254/32 -p tcp -m tcp --dport 80 -j DNAT --to-destination 192.168.56.200:8775 | 16:31 |
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| jeid64 | should be added automagically by nova-network or nova-metadata-api | 16:31 |
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| Qlawy | jeid64: it should be | 16:31 |
| jeid64 | It's not being added magically and doesn't actually work. | 16:31 |
| Qlawy | jeid64: but do you have mutli-host true? | 16:31 |
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| jeid64 | Yup, I can send over my nova.conf | 16:31 |
| Qlawy | jeid64: not needed at now | 16:31 |
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| Qlawy | jeid64: check logs | 16:33 |
| Qlawy | jeid64: but in debug mode | 16:34 |
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| jeid64 | Qlawy: http://pastebin.com/j5iyezp0 | 16:35 |
| jeid64 | Pasted relevant sections that aren't configs when running metadata-api in debug mode. | 16:35 |
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| jeid64 | If you need some of the config stuff above that, I can give it to you. | 16:36 |
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| Qlawy | hmm | 16:38 |
| Qlawy | no clue :( | 16:38 |
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| jeid64 | Hey, still having troubles with nova-metadata-api, if I'm using a bridge, shouldn't I be using ebtables instead of iptables because iptables doesn't work on a bridge interface? | 17:23 |
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| jeid64 | Okay, so I figured it out, if you're interested #openstack or Qlawy | 17:49 |
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| jeid64 | Tucked away deep in the documentation for FlatNetwork manager. No one else seems to write about this. Metadata forwarding must be handled by the gateway, and since nova does not do any setup in this mode, it must be done manually. Requests to 169.254.169.254 port 80 will need to be forwarded to the api server. | 17:49 |
| jeid64 | I had to get my router to DNAT to my api server. | 17:50 |
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| Andrei89 | looking for someone with good knowledge - DevStack/Openstack/localrc/VIRTUAL BOX/UBUNTU - I just want to deploy Openstack with Devstack and can't manage to have public and private network topology | Willing to pay for the help! | 18:03 |
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| aashish1 | I need help with login to VM. Using devstack. Anyone can help? | 18:17 |
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| Sam-I-Am | jeid64: cool, good to note. | 18:19 |
| aashish1 | I should mention that I am very new to openstack | 18:20 |
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| aashish1 | I am trying this command ssh cirros@172.24.4.3 | 18:21 |
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| aashish1 | And I get ssh: connect to host 172.24.4.3 port 22: No route to host | 18:22 |
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| aashish1 | Hello anyone? | 18:24 |
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| aashish1 | Anyone here can help me with the login issue? I am new to openstack and can use some guidance | 18:26 |
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| Andrei89 | aashish1 go to access and security | 18:34 |
| Andrei89 | edit security group rules | 18:34 |
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| Andrei89 | add rule - tcp, port 22 | 18:34 |
| Andrei89 | maybe that will help, I'm also very new to openstack | 18:34 |
| Andrei89 | ooh in your openstack dashboard | 18:35 |
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| aashish1 | Yes I did add that rule | 18:36 |
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| Andrei89 | look for something like this: sudo ovs-vsctl add-port br-ex eth1 | 18:38 |
| Andrei89 | on google | 18:38 |
| aashish1 | Sure.. so I am assuming that it solved your problem | 18:42 |
| Andrei89 | well my problem is different | 18:42 |
| Andrei89 | :) i can't manage to deploy openstack with public and private network topology | 18:42 |
| Andrei89 | I don't know what to write in my localrc file | 18:43 |
| aashish1 | I see. I am trying to learn openstack via devstack | 18:43 |
| aashish1 | on my personal laptop | 18:44 |
| Andrei89 | me 2 | 18:44 |
| Andrei89 | same here | 18:44 |
| aashish1 | so why you have to worry about public and private network topology | 18:44 |
| aashish1 | just curious, pardon my lack of knowledge here | 18:45 |
| Andrei89 | i have deployed openstack havana with devstack...well...that's what I want to do at the moment :) | 18:45 |
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| Andrei89 | I want external network and private network... | 18:47 |
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| aashish1 | I see. so that would be similar to what I am trying to do | 18:48 |
| aashish1 | I thikn | 18:48 |
| aashish1 | but you said yous and mine are different? | 18:48 |
| Andrei89 | I guess... I alwo want to communicate from my host machine with the VM | 18:48 |
| Andrei89 | what irc client do u use? | 18:49 |
| Andrei89 | i'll send u something that might help | 18:49 |
| aashish1 | cool.. I am using pidgin | 18:50 |
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| Qlawy | Anyone have same OS image but for vmware and kvm? | 20:25 |
| Qlawy | manual conversion does not work well | 20:25 |
| Qlawy | and I cant find exact same images for other hypervisors | 20:25 |
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| lbalbalba | what hypervisor are you using ? | 20:28 |
| Qlawy | I need to compare vmware, kvm and perhaps hyper-v | 20:28 |
| Qlawy | but most important for me is kvm and vmware | 20:28 |
| Qlawy | when kvm can use vmdks, vmware not really can handle with qcows | 20:29 |
| Qlawy | http://docs.openstack.org/image-guide/content/ch_converting.html this should work but it doesnt for me :/ | 20:30 |
| Qlawy | I got sth like "no bootable media found" in vmware after converting from qcow | 20:31 |
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| lbalbalba | yeah i think 'qemu-img convert' would be your best (only ?) bet | 20:31 |
| Qlawy | I know there is one tool from vmware which can be used for converting between formats but… its kinda magical | 20:32 |
| Qlawy | anyways I will try to use it ;) | 20:32 |
| lbalbalba | perhaps you should troubleshoot 'qemu-img convert' by asking for help on the #qemu channel ? | 20:33 |
| lbalbalba | or is it not a qemu tool | 20:33 |
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| lbalbalba | hrm. im having a network issue with neutron. i can launch an instance with a private ip of 10.0.0.3 and floating ip of 192.168.42.132, but i cannot ping them. | 20:39 |
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| Sam-I-Am | lbalbalba: security group problem? | 20:47 |
| lbalbalba | Sam-I-Am: dont think so: http://fpaste.org/63769/76588631/ | 20:48 |
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| Sam-I-Am | did you create those rules as the tenant running the instance? | 20:49 |
| lbalbalba | i created the rules and instance as the 'admin' user | 20:50 |
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| lbalbalba | for the 'demo' project / tenant (hope ive gotten the terminology right here) | 20:52 |
| Sam-I-Am | it just needs to be under the tenant running the instance... the username associated with the tenant doesnt matter as much | 20:53 |
| Sam-I-Am | do you see any iptables rules on the compute node associated with your instance? | 20:53 |
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| lbalbalba | http://fpaste.org/63770/13876593/ | 20:55 |
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| lbalbalba | this works though: sudo ip netns exec qdhcp-fc342f8f-0211-4e86-9a2f-ec64c719ba67 ping 10.0.0.3 | 20:56 |
| Sam-I-Am | this is more a concern about your floatingip | 20:57 |
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| Sam-I-Am | what's all the other chains here... like in_external | 20:57 |
| lbalbalba | and this one as well: sudo ip netns exec qrouter-4d26556c-9b29-4162-ba91-ce704b771fa6 ping 10.0.0.3 | 20:58 |
| lbalbalba | shouldnt i be able to ping both the private and the floating ip ? | 20:58 |
| Sam-I-Am | you can only ping the private from within that network namespace (qdhcp* or qrouter*) | 20:59 |
| Sam-I-Am | the security group affects the floatingip | 20:59 |
| lbalbalba | so i should only be worried about not having access to the floating ip 192.168.42.132. got it | 20:59 |
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| Sam-I-Am | yeah | 21:00 |
| Sam-I-Am | can you ping the router ip for that floatingip network? | 21:00 |
| Sam-I-Am | the virtual router... | 21:00 |
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| Sam-I-Am | its probably the lowest ip in the range you provided when you made the subnet | 21:00 |
| lbalbalba | uhm. whats the ip ? | 21:00 |
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| lbalbalba | ah. that would be 10.0.0.1. yes, i can ping that | 21:02 |
| Sam-I-Am | thats the router for the internal network | 21:02 |
| Sam-I-Am | i'm talking about the external network | 21:02 |
| Sam-I-Am | try 'neutron subnet-show <id of subnet on ext network>' | 21:04 |
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| Sam-I-Am | it should return a 'gateway_ip' | 21:04 |
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| lbalbalba | thanks for taking the time to explain all this, by the way. im grateful. | 21:05 |
| lbalbalba | http://fpaste.org/63771/59913138/ | 21:05 |
| lbalbalba | yeah. i can ping the gw | 21:06 |
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| Sam-I-Am | hmm i'm a bit confused, why is the gateway on a totally different network? | 21:07 |
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| Sam-I-Am | shouldn't it be a 192.168.42.something? | 21:07 |
| lbalbalba | well the only real answer to that would be: i dont know. im assuming its the devstack default value ?. oh, im running devstack, by the way | 21:07 |
| Sam-I-Am | hmm | 21:08 |
| Sam-I-Am | do you have a br-ex interface? | 21:08 |
| lbalbalba | yup | 21:08 |
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| Sam-I-Am | and it has what ip? | 21:08 |
| lbalbalba | 172.24.4.225 | 21:08 |
| Sam-I-Am | whats the router ip on the network that interface is on? | 21:09 |
| lbalbalba | maybe im feeding devstack illegal values in my local.conf ? : http://fpaste.org/63772/13876601/ | 21:09 |
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| Sam-I-Am | can you ping 192.168.42.129? | 21:11 |
| Sam-I-Am | do you have a 'real' router at 192.168.42.1 or somesuch? | 21:12 |
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| lbalbalba | i cannnot ping 192.168.42.129. uhm, no there's no real router. all is just running on a local box | 21:13 |
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| lbalbalba | i figured that wouldnt be an issue, as long as i run everything on the same box and only try to connect to/from stuff on that box | 21:14 |
| lbalbalba | thats a bad assumption, isnt it. i should have a real routeer.... :( | 21:15 |
| Sam-I-Am | can the instance see the outside world/internet? | 21:16 |
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| lbalbalba | yeah. im running devstack on a vmware vm running fedora. i can access the internet from the cmd line there | 21:17 |
| lbalbalba | this is my routing table : http://fpaste.org/63773/60305138/ | 21:18 |
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| Sam-I-Am | can you reach the internet from within the instance? | 21:19 |
| Sam-I-Am | the one with the 10.x ip | 21:19 |
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| Ryan_Lane | jaypipes: so, you need to auth for each region using keystone | 21:20 |
| Ryan_Lane | ? | 21:20 |
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| Ryan_Lane | I thought you can replicate the tokens and that would be unnecessary... | 21:21 |
| lbalbalba | Sam-I-Am: let me check, lets see if i can get to the console of that instance fom within the webui | 21:22 |
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| Sam-I-Am | lbalbalba: you can try 'nova get-vnc-console <instance> novnc' | 21:23 |
| Sam-I-Am | it'll return a url | 21:23 |
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| lbalbalba | Sam-I-Am: thanks, i already used the webui :) . no, i have no interrnet access from within the instance. it doesnt really surprise me though, it would be real funny if access in didnt work, and accesss out did right ? | 21:25 |
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| Sam-I-Am | well, no... because outbound access is a basic source nat | 21:27 |
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| lbalbalba | oh ... | 21:28 |
| Sam-I-Am | so you should at least be able to ping 192.168.42.something from within the instance | 21:28 |
| Sam-I-Am | where something is a valid ip there | 21:28 |
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| Sam-I-Am | btw, if you're running on vmware, did you set your vswitch to accept promisc mode? | 21:30 |
| lbalbalba | theres nothing else on 192.168.42.xxx except the openstack instance i started. | 21:33 |
| lbalbalba | im running vmware workstation. that cones with a 'vswitch' ? | 21:33 |
| lbalbalba | comes | 21:33 |
| Sam-I-Am | it has something like it | 21:33 |
| lbalbalba | hrm. i need to check | 21:33 |
| Sam-I-Am | so... one of your pastes had a routing table | 21:34 |
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| Sam-I-Am | there's a default gateway pointing to something | 21:34 |
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| lbalbalba | lets fire up the network editor. theree's a NAT-network through which the instances have internet access | 21:36 |
| lbalbalba | props say its 192.168.126.2 | 21:36 |
| Sam-I-Am | so if you have a single-interface box, it would make sense for the external network to use the same ip range as the physical interface | 21:37 |
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| Sam-I-Am | so br-ex would have an ip thats able to get out of the VM | 21:37 |
| lbalbalba | this ------------->>>>>>>>>>>>> if you have a single-interface box, it would make sense for the external network to use the same ip range as the physical interface | 21:37 |
| lbalbalba | all the docs i read state not to choose the same range | 21:38 |
| lbalbalba | :( | 21:38 |
| lbalbalba | i fgeel silly now | 21:38 |
| Sam-I-Am | what doc was this? | 21:38 |
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| lbalbalba | cant remember, prolly something over on docs.openstack.org. but then again, none of the docs i read assume a single nic | 21:39 |
| Sam-I-Am | not with neutron... and not with devstack either | 21:40 |
| Sam-I-Am | but it does work | 21:40 |
| Sam-I-Am | i have a devstack instance with neutron that works | 21:40 |
| lbalbalba | ok. so i need to set the FLOATING_RANGE in local.conf to the same range that the physical nic 192.168.126.142 is on | 21:41 |
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| Sam-I-Am | there's probably some underlying config to do to br-ex | 21:41 |
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| Sam-I-Am | but we'll see | 21:42 |
| lbalbalba | 192.168.126.0 subnet 255.255.255.0 | 21:42 |
| Sam-I-Am | can you paste what you're putting in that file? | 21:42 |
| lbalbalba | and then ill need to assign a static ip to my vmware linux instance, and tell vmware to stop running a dhcp server in that range | 21:43 |
| Sam-I-Am | sounds like an overly complex setup :) | 21:43 |
| Sam-I-Am | its a lot easier if you can bridge that vmware network to your real network | 21:44 |
| Sam-I-Am | one less thing in the way | 21:44 |
| lbalbalba | yeah you can bridge vms to the real netwoek. but i havent ever bothered with that setup, 'nat' seemed so much easier. ;) | 21:45 |
| lbalbalba | wait, let me hook up that vm to the briodge network, and reboot. restarting devstack will be slow though | 21:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | devstack is both good and bad | 21:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | i kind of wish there was an ubuntu/debian alternative to redhat RDO | 21:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | rdo provides a more permanent config with real config files | 21:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | devstack is a pain in the ass to debug | 21:47 |
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| lbalbalba | and a pain in the ass to restart. takes like 15 mins on my box | 21:48 |
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| Sam-I-Am | yeah because it runs all of the magic again | 21:48 |
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| Sam-I-Am | if you dont mind running a rhel-like OS (or fedora), you should try RDO for a proof-of-concept | 21:49 |
| lbalbalba | thanks for the tip. im running fedora, ill dowmnload rdo | 21:49 |
| ade_b | rdo is great - packstack is perfect | 21:50 |
| Sam-I-Am | lbalbalba: yeah if you already run fedora its a no-brainer | 21:50 |
| Sam-I-Am | there's still some extra config you'll need to do for neutron, but its not bad | 21:50 |
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| lbalbalba | silly me. i thought devstack would be a no-brainer. *wrong* ;) | 21:51 |
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| Sam-I-Am | well, it is... except when you need to configure extra things | 21:52 |
| lbalbalba | so on fedora, i should go for packstack | 21:52 |
| lbalbalba | got it | 21:52 |
| Sam-I-Am | rdo (which uses packstack) | 21:52 |
| ade_b | you will love packstack | 21:52 |
| lbalbalba | ah. got it | 21:52 |
| lbalbalba | im loving it already ;) | 21:53 |
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| Sam-I-Am | lbalbalba: you might want to read this https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1034476 | 21:53 |
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| Sam-I-Am | there's a doc somewhere outlining neutron in rdo, but the quick start guide has not been updated | 21:54 |
| Sam-I-Am | by default, rdo will use neutron | 21:55 |
| ade_b | ah zes, I ran into that, glad there is a bug | 21:55 |
| Sam-I-Am | its too bad no one has triaged it yet :/ | 21:55 |
| Sam-I-Am | seems no one at redhat pays attention to rdo | 21:55 |
| Sam-I-Am | which so far has only been the only downside to it | 21:55 |
| lbalbalba | thanks. now lets see if my bridged vm instace booted ok. | 21:56 |
| lbalbalba | cool. got a 192.168.178.22 ip now | 21:56 |
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| lbalbalba | and it still has internet access | 21:56 |
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| lbalbalba | hrm. not too sure what to make of that | 21:57 |
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| lbalbalba | right. the same range as my windows guest os it is. guess thats good, then | 21:58 |
| lbalbalba | i mean host os, of course | 21:58 |
| Sam-I-Am | seems fine | 21:59 |
| Sam-I-Am | its just pulling an ip off the dhcp server on that bridged network is my guess | 21:59 |
| lbalbalba | yeah, im just wondering who/what gave the vm guest its ip | 21:59 |
| lbalbalba | ah | 21:59 |
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| lbalbalba | but i told my wifi roputer to only allow certian mcs, and ... oh, wait. vmware prolly uses the same mac for the bridged guest | 22:00 |
| Sam-I-Am | it... should pass the mac through | 22:00 |
| lbalbalba | yeah. so there should now be 2 ips for the same mac on my real internet router | 22:00 |
| lbalbalba | ok, back to openstack | 22:01 |
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| lbalbalba | so i should really start wit hdownloading rdo now. yeah, lets do that and forget about devstack | 22:01 |
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| lbalbalba | oh, before i forget: is therea way to tell rdo to use qeu as its hypervisor ? cant use kvm, as the box doesnt have hardware virtualisation extesions. :( | 22:03 |
| lbalbalba | i need to type slower and make less mistakes ... | 22:04 |
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| lbalbalba | i mean qemu | 22:04 |
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| Sam-I-Am | it should automatically fix that for you | 22:04 |
| ade_b | it works it out and does it automatically | 22:04 |
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| mrproper | Sam-I-Am: Happy weekend | 22:05 |
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| Sam-I-Am | mrproper: yes, it is happy | 22:05 |
| lbalbalba | cool | 22:05 |
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| lbalbalba | well, here goes: packstack --allinone | 22:06 |
| * lbalbalba keeps fingers crossed | 22:06 | |
| mrproper | Sam-I-Am: I'm thinking I'm going to install Ceilometer next week so I can do quotas. | 22:08 |
| mrproper | Sam-I-Am: Does that even require quotas> | 22:08 |
| Sam-I-Am | dunno, havent used it | 22:08 |
| Sam-I-Am | i kind of thought heat did that | 22:09 |
| mrproper | Actually it looks like quotas are handled by Nova? | 22:09 |
| mrproper | http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/openstack-ops/content/quotas.html | 22:09 |
| Sam-I-Am | well, yeah | 22:09 |
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| lbalbalba | crap. mysql problems. now what : http://fpaste.org/63781/87664025/ | 22:14 |
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| lbalbalba | oh well, guess ill be looking at that tommorrow. time for bed. | 22:16 |
| lbalbalba | Sam-I-Am: thanks for all the great helpo | 22:16 |
| Sam-I-Am | lbalbalba: sure | 22:17 |
| Sam-I-Am | could be some leftover from devstack | 22:17 |
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| lbalbalba | prolly. devstack may install a mysql package and configure that. maybe i shouyld just restart on a clean gueat vm instead | 22:18 |
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| Sam-I-Am | probably a good idea | 22:18 |
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| lbalbalba | yeah. anyway, ill be off now, thanks again ! bye ! | 22:19 |
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| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: we do not replicate tokens, no... the write volume is horrendous and does not fit well with sync-replicated databases, especially across a WAN. Users work with endpoints in a specific region, and don't even notice that tokens are handled separately by the keystone service running in each region. All identity information is replicated, but not token informaiton. | 22:26 |
| Ryan_Lane | heh. I was about to reply | 22:26 |
| morganfainberg | jaypipes, oh that would be insane with high-volume of tokens | 22:27 |
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| Ryan_Lane | if you don't replicate the tokens it's necessary to authenticate a user to each keystone | 22:27 |
| Ryan_Lane | and track the unscoped and scoped tokens for each region | 22:27 |
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| Ryan_Lane | (in a web interface) | 22:27 |
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| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, afaik yes | 22:27 |
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| Ryan_Lane | that's so unbelievably shitty | 22:27 |
| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: our users that frequently use multiple regions simply have multiple rcfiles that they source when wanting to switch between regions... | 22:27 |
| Ryan_Lane | and again. totally shitty | 22:28 |
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| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, what would be the approach to solve it? replication of data at high volume is very hard. | 22:28 |
| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: sorry man, it's not something that our users have complained about at all :( | 22:28 |
| Ryan_Lane | openstack's implementation of regions/zones/etc is just poot | 22:28 |
| Ryan_Lane | *poor | 22:28 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, and i'm actually being serious, input to help would be good. help us :) | 22:28 |
| Ryan_Lane | yeah | 22:29 |
| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: I know, it's something I'm actively working on improving: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/63570/ | 22:29 |
| Ryan_Lane | I'm only using regions because there's no other implementation that actually works across the WAN | 22:29 |
| Ryan_Lane | every other abstraction assumes the same network | 22:30 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, jaypipes, fwiw, we're working on making tokens totally emphemeral. so in theory as long as it is securely validated and data is "sane" we should be able to drop the need to track tokens | 22:30 |
| morganfainberg | in a stable store | 22:30 |
| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: not sure I follow you on that... | 22:30 |
| Ryan_Lane | but the authentication assumes everything is totally separate with that | 22:30 |
| Ryan_Lane | availability zones don't work properly if the network fails | 22:30 |
| Ryan_Lane | between the zones | 22:30 |
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| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: ah... availabilty zone != region. | 22:30 |
| Ryan_Lane | also, they only exist in nova | 22:31 |
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| Ryan_Lane | I have two datacenters | 22:31 |
| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: right... AZ is a nova concept. | 22:31 |
| morganfainberg | jaypipes, oh let me star that review and look at it early next week. | 22:31 |
| Ryan_Lane | the only difference is that they are different datacenters | 22:31 |
| Ryan_Lane | ideally you authenticate to one and you should be authenticated to the other | 22:31 |
| Ryan_Lane | forcing users to understand that concept sucks | 22:31 |
| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: I don't really get that use case... | 22:31 |
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| Ryan_Lane | well, a web interface would need to track the regions separately | 22:32 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, hm, if you used the same cert for PKI tokens auth_token middleware should do what you want (even if token data isn't directly replicated). | 22:32 |
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| Ryan_Lane | ah. true | 22:32 |
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| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: users aren't force to understand anything... they don't even know about token authentication. all they know is "if I want to perform an action in region A, then I source my rcfile that contains the authurl of region A" | 22:32 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, you can't "validate" the token directly in the non-auth'd keystone if you don't replicate the data though | 22:32 |
| Ryan_Lane | jaypipes: assuming their password is stored on the filesystem | 22:33 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, but it seems like from a web construct it might make sense to abstract a keystone token out from the "session" | 22:33 |
| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: no, like I said, the identity information is replicated across regions. | 22:33 |
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| Ryan_Lane | but the unscoped token is not | 22:33 |
| Ryan_Lane | so they need to get an unscoped token per region | 22:33 |
| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: identity/tenant/passwords don't change... they just point to the region's keystone endpoitn. | 22:33 |
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| Ryan_Lane | let's take the use case of a web interface | 22:34 |
| Ryan_Lane | you log in to the web interface | 22:34 |
| Ryan_Lane | it logs into keystone on your behalf and holds your unscoped token | 22:34 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, SSO is what you're looking for between keystone instances. | 22:34 |
| Ryan_Lane | morganfainberg: yes | 22:34 |
| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: I don't get what you mean by "a user needs to get an unscoped token per region"... the user doesn't think about any of that. all they do is point their nova/cinder/neutron CLI authurl to the keystone endpoint of the region they are working with. | 22:34 |
| Ryan_Lane | yes, the tool abstracts this for them | 22:35 |
| Ryan_Lane | I'm writing a tool that needs to do this | 22:35 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, unscoped tokens are ... well not "needed" in most cases. | 22:35 |
| Ryan_Lane | and needing to authenticate to multiple endpoints is unreliable at best | 22:35 |
| Ryan_Lane | how are they not? you can only get a scoped token with an unscoped one | 22:35 |
| jaypipes | morganfainberg, Ryan_Lane: we have single sign on... in that there's only one set of credentials for all regions... but we don't support a user logging in to the Horizon dashboard in region A and then magically being logged in to the Horizon dashboard in region B, no. | 22:36 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, not true, you can get a direct scoped token. | 22:36 |
| Ryan_Lane | jaypipes: and that's exactly what I want | 22:36 |
| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: ok.. :) | 22:36 |
| Ryan_Lane | I don't want a user to need to re-enter their password to switch regions | 22:36 |
| Ryan_Lane | it's absurd | 22:36 |
| Ryan_Lane | and confusing | 22:36 |
| MichielHN | true | 22:36 |
| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: it's not somethng that's come up for us, frankly... the user has their password in their rcfile and simply sources it when they work with a region. | 22:36 |
| Ryan_Lane | and my web interface doesn't even let users choose between regions, because that's also relatively absurd | 22:37 |
| Ryan_Lane | it shows them all regions in the same interface | 22:37 |
| morganfainberg | jaypipes, most people are fine with that workflow in my experience | 22:37 |
| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: so AWS's web interface is absurd I guess... | 22:37 |
| Ryan_Lane | yes. most cloud control interfaces are | 22:37 |
| Ryan_Lane | when you apply them to private clouds | 22:37 |
| Ryan_Lane | ;) | 22:37 |
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| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, ok, well like i said, PKI tokens + same signing cert should "help" but i think the right answer would be to make the session not a keystone token. | 22:38 |
| Ryan_Lane | well, oauth would help there | 22:38 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, web session does the token get/etc stuff behind the scenes | 22:38 |
| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: for the record, we've had plans to support a "global dashboard" like you propose... but the fact that Keystone has not understood relatinoships between regions has been a limiting factor for us. | 22:38 |
| Ryan_Lane | jaypipes: that's what I'm saying :) | 22:38 |
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| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: ok, I understand you. | 22:38 |
| Ryan_Lane | oauth does actually solve part of this | 22:38 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, and jaypipes has that review ^ that is starting to put the pieces together | 22:38 |
| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: and I can see the use case clearly now. I'm just saying it's not been a super high priority item from our tenants. | 22:39 |
| morganfainberg | for the region relationships that is | 22:39 |
| Ryan_Lane | the web interface would keep an oauth token for the user and would use that as an unscoped token | 22:39 |
| Ryan_Lane | yeah. it is for my use case | 22:39 |
| jaypipes | understood. :) | 22:39 |
| Ryan_Lane | in my use case the web interface is used for all kinds of shit | 22:39 |
| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: I am definitely not trying to argue with you, man :) | 22:39 |
| Ryan_Lane | documentation, managing nova, puppet, etc. etc. :) | 22:39 |
| Ryan_Lane | I know. I'm just trying to explain our case | 22:39 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, jaypipes, wonder if you could use v3 credentials to pull this off in havana-release code | 22:40 |
| Ryan_Lane | my users are all relatively non-technical, so the whole region thing itself is confusing | 22:40 |
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| morganfainberg | since "auth" data would be replicated | 22:40 |
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| jaypipes | yeah, and I appreciate it. I was just a little confused by the whole "unscoped token" reference.. | 22:40 |
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| * Ryan_Lane nods | 22:40 | |
| jaypipes | morganfainberg: perhaps. have not deployed Havana yet, though. | 22:40 |
| morganfainberg | jaypipes, ah that would be a sticking point! | 22:40 |
| morganfainberg | jaypipes, darn | 22:40 |
| jaypipes | we're in the process of trying it out. | 22:40 |
| Ryan_Lane | I do have a question, though... :) | 22:40 |
| morganfainberg | jaypipes, hehe ;) | 22:41 |
| Ryan_Lane | if I replicate the tokens, will things work, or will they break? | 22:41 |
| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: oh, it will work. | 22:41 |
| Ryan_Lane | because I'm in the middle of setting up a second region and that's how I was doing it | 22:41 |
| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: will just be incredibly slow, in my experience. | 22:41 |
| Ryan_Lane | we have a relatively small number of users | 22:41 |
| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: same for us ;) | 22:41 |
| Ryan_Lane | 2k or so. only 200-300 who use it actively | 22:41 |
| Ryan_Lane | and we don't currently allow api access | 22:42 |
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| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, SQL backed tokens? it will be unfortunately painful still (most likely) | 22:42 |
| Ryan_Lane | I was planning on redis | 22:42 |
| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: LOL, we had less than that when we tried out the SQL driver for tokens, and the tokens table had 100M records in it within a month. | 22:42 |
| morganfainberg | there are a number of things that generate a ton of tokens for no good reason | 22:42 |
| Ryan_Lane | :D | 22:42 |
| jaypipes | morganfainberg: zactly. | 22:42 |
| Ryan_Lane | yep. I avoid those with the web interface | 22:42 |
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| Ryan_Lane | I reuse tokens | 22:42 |
| morganfainberg | jaypipes, i think i fixed the worst novaclient offender | 22:42 |
| morganfainberg | but. | 22:42 |
| jaypipes | morganfainberg: and PKI *definitely* helps out with that, but still not ideal. | 22:42 |
| morganfainberg | it is still rough | 22:42 |
| Ryan_Lane | I cache them in memcache, including the unscoped token | 22:43 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, nod. | 22:43 |
| Ryan_Lane | and I save the unscoped token across logins | 22:43 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, bearer tokens are a bad approach. but... | 22:43 |
| morganfainberg | there is no good alternative | 22:43 |
| morganfainberg | yet | 22:44 |
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| Ryan_Lane | bearer tokens? | 22:44 |
| jaypipes | Ryan_Lane: beer tokens :) | 22:45 |
| Ryan_Lane | heh | 22:45 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, long-lived tokens | 22:45 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, that are used over-and-over | 22:45 |
| Ryan_Lane | is this the "on my behalf" tokens? | 22:45 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, basically, in an ideal world you'd be able to throw away tokens after a single use | 22:45 |
| Ryan_Lane | yeah, but that isn't possible with web interfaces | 22:46 |
| morganfainberg | and there would be no need to "store" the token data. | 22:46 |
| Ryan_Lane | since they need to act on behalf of a user | 22:46 |
| Ryan_Lane | (this is what oauth is designed for) | 22:46 |
| jaypipes | man, the gate is taking >1.5 hours... even on a weekend. | 22:46 |
| morganfainberg | keystone tokens should _not_ be tied to the session specifically | 22:46 |
| morganfainberg | jaypipes, =( sucky | 22:46 |
| Ryan_Lane | morganfainberg: right, but how do you deal with web interfaces in that situation? | 22:46 |
| Ryan_Lane | continuously make the user reauth? | 22:46 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, use another mechanism to perform "auth" that can be handled behind the scenes. the keystone token is meant to perform actions in the environment | 22:47 |
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| Ryan_Lane | right, that's oauth :) | 22:47 |
| Ryan_Lane | which is basically a long-lived token | 22:47 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, or EC2-credentials style. | 22:48 |
| Ryan_Lane | that's unscoped | 22:48 |
| morganfainberg | except unscoped tokens give more access than you want | 22:48 |
| Ryan_Lane | oauth is better than ec2 style | 22:48 |
| morganfainberg | the token you're speaking about should really _only_ be a authn item | 22:48 |
| morganfainberg | no authz | 22:48 |
| morganfainberg | even unscoped tokens have authz capabilities | 22:48 |
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| morganfainberg | (esp. when layering in domains in some cases) | 22:48 |
| Ryan_Lane | since it's per-application and you can revoke them separately | 22:48 |
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| Ryan_Lane | yes. auth only | 22:48 |
| Ryan_Lane | you'd need to use that token to get a temporary token than can do more | 22:49 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, I can assure you this issue isn't lost on a few of us devs. | 22:49 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, we want to make that all doable | 22:49 |
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| Ryan_Lane | well, oauth is already implemented for havana | 22:49 |
| Ryan_Lane | I don't know how usable it is | 22:49 |
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| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, it solves some issues | 22:51 |
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| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, but icehouse stuff will be better. | 22:51 |
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| Ryan_Lane | if I can store an oauth token in the web interface, and have it get scoped (or unscoped) tokens, I'll be happy :) | 22:52 |
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| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, i _think_ that is doable in havana | 22:55 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, though i'd have to 2x check, it's been... a bit since i've dug into that code | 22:56 |
| Ryan_Lane | cool. I'll see if it is. that would solve a lot of problems for me | 22:56 |
| Ryan_Lane | if not, I can wait till icehouse and replicate tokens for now | 22:56 |
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| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, look at the oauth1 auth plugin (keystone.auth.plugins.oauth i think) | 22:56 |
| Ryan_Lane | in a year I've had < 100k tokens | 22:56 |
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| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, oh. thats not bad. i've had an environmnet that hit 1.2mil tokens in ~8mo | 22:57 |
| morganfainberg | with probably less users than you have. | 22:57 |
| Ryan_Lane | yeah. my web interface goes to great lengths to ensure tokens are well used | 22:57 |
| morganfainberg | if you regularly flushed the tokens... you might be able to repicate them | 22:57 |
| morganfainberg | at that volume that is | 22:57 |
| Ryan_Lane | well, if I use redis I don't need to flush :) | 22:57 |
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| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, ah so custom token backend | 22:58 |
| Ryan_Lane | redis is available in havana | 22:58 |
| morganfainberg | not as a token backend in-tree | 22:58 |
| morganfainberg | as a cache for some of the backend logic, yes | 22:58 |
| Ryan_Lane | via dogpile | 22:58 |
| Ryan_Lane | oh | 22:58 |
| Ryan_Lane | ugh | 22:58 |
| Ryan_Lane | really? | 22:58 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, sorry, in icehouse redis will be available | 22:59 |
| Ryan_Lane | the tokens are still stored in sql? | 22:59 |
| Ryan_Lane | rawr | 22:59 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, yes, i wrote the dogpile code in keystone | 22:59 |
| Ryan_Lane | well, that's a pain in the ass | 22:59 |
| Ryan_Lane | heh | 22:59 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, i've got outstanding reviews to make dogpile a generic kvs store we can use for things like token backends | 22:59 |
| * Ryan_Lane nods | 22:59 | |
| morganfainberg | it's... a lot of work and moving slow. | 22:59 |
| Ryan_Lane | this makes things relatively hard. I guess I can just authenticate to each keystone | 23:00 |
| Ryan_Lane | and store the tokens. that's going to complicate my web interface logic | 23:00 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/60742/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/60743/ and following that i have some work to make any dogpile backend "work" | 23:00 |
| * Ryan_Lane nods | 23:00 | |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, you could implement a _very_ simple redis token backend and use it | 23:00 |
| Ryan_Lane | well, I'm wondering which will be more work at this point. | 23:01 |
| morganfainberg | implementing a driver is likley a lot of work | 23:01 |
| morganfainberg | let me see | 23:01 |
| Ryan_Lane | yeah. my abstraction in my web interface probably won't take a lot of changes | 23:01 |
| Ryan_Lane | I can enumerate the identity services, and authenticate against them separately | 23:02 |
| Ryan_Lane | the only issue is, what do I do if one isn't available? do I disallow auth? | 23:02 |
| Ryan_Lane | probably the best approach, but its another SPOD | 23:02 |
| Ryan_Lane | *SPOF | 23:02 |
| Ryan_Lane | and it's one that grows with each region I add | 23:03 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/stable/havana/keystone/token/core.py#L194 the methods that raise NotImplemented are the required interfaces to make a driver work | 23:03 |
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| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, and "flush tokens" is not really needed. | 23:03 |
| Ryan_Lane | yep | 23:03 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, so about 7 methods and some scafolding to make the driver "work" | 23:04 |
| Ryan_Lane | list_tokens can also be ignored, right? | 23:04 |
| morganfainberg | no. | 23:04 |
| Ryan_Lane | well, it's easy enough to implement | 23:04 |
| morganfainberg | deleting the users or trusts etc | 23:04 |
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| Ryan_Lane | heh. I don't allow any of that :D | 23:04 |
| Ryan_Lane | (ldap backend) | 23:04 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, if you delete a project same thing | 23:05 |
| morganfainberg | or grant | 23:05 |
| morganfainberg | (assignment backend) | 23:05 |
| Ryan_Lane | true. I'd want to wipe out the tokens associated with a project | 23:05 |
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| morganfainberg | delete_tokens relies on list_tokens at the moment | 23:05 |
| Ryan_Lane | I see | 23:05 |
| Ryan_Lane | well, not if I reimplement it :) | 23:06 |
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| Ryan_Lane | but yeah, this may be doable | 23:06 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, glad i lurk in this channel every now and again | 23:06 |
| Ryan_Lane | yeah, me too :) | 23:07 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, i have been working on making tokens better and with the new revocation events in icehouse we're def. on the right path | 23:07 |
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| Ryan_Lane | cool | 23:07 |
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| * morganfainberg can't take alll the credit, ayoung and other keystone devs are doing a lot of the work | 23:07 | |
| Ryan_Lane | I'd definitely like some form of SSO :) | 23:07 |
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| Ryan_Lane | or openstack to have a better abstraction than regions currently are | 23:08 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, we are aiming to support "federated identity providers" so identity can be provided from SAML, OpenIDConnect, etc | 23:08 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, with that, it becomes easier to do SSO for tokens. | 23:08 |
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| * Ryan_Lane nods | 23:08 | |
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| Ryan_Lane | OpenIDConnect would be ideal | 23:08 |
| Ryan_Lane | (for my situation) | 23:08 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, talk to stevemar (#openstack-dev) he's working on that stuff | 23:09 |
| Ryan_Lane | sweet | 23:09 |
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| morganfainberg | or i heard he was | 23:09 |
| morganfainberg | ;) | 23:09 |
| morganfainberg | i need to go run errands... and eat food... and | 23:10 |
| morganfainberg | uhm | 23:10 |
| morganfainberg | not lay in bed and talk about openstack on IRC when i'm on vacation | 23:10 |
| morganfainberg | :P | 23:10 |
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| ersi | sgran: Do I need to attach an floating IP to it though? It already got an IP allocated, which it gets automatically when booting/creating | 23:38 |
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