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leftist | good morning. i installed devstack and i passed out during the script run stack.sh and when i just woke up i saw a new user "stack" and i dont have a clue what the pw could be. i dont recall creating a pw. is there a default? | 07:44 |
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leftist | ha i blew this build completely, i am now looking at the instructions and i dont remember any of it now :D | 07:47 |
leftist | nevermind. so much for christmas parties | 07:47 |
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koolhead17 | ttx: ping | 08:09 |
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koolhead17 | leftist: still around? | 08:20 |
koolhead17 | check the localrc file it will give you all the creds | 08:21 |
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leftist | koolhead1 i changed the pw for the user ;) | 10:31 |
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leftist | koolhead17 | 10:31 |
leftist | thanks | 10:31 |
koolhead17 | leftist: your rockstar. cheers!! | 10:31 |
leftist | haha | 10:32 |
leftist | i decided i would rebuild it again and this time pay attenion to the process... | 10:33 |
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koolhead17 | hmm | 10:38 |
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leftist | uh? | 10:39 |
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hick0rd | hello, we have created all-in-one openstack environment ( controller + compute ), however we are unable to create a volume group within the same machine, we do not need to use cinder-volume for remote block storage, but it still complaning about missing cinder functionallites. | 12:17 |
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hick0rd | Any ideas? | 12:36 |
hick0rd | bump | 12:36 |
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hick0rd | Can anyone look into my issue? | 12:50 |
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hkumarmk | Hello Guys, I am trying to setup openstack havana with zeromq with flatdhcp multi-host setup | 12:56 |
hick0rd | hello, we have created all-in-one openstack environment ( controller + compute ), however we are unable to create a volume group within the same machine, we do not need to use cinder-volume for remote block storage, but it still complaning about missing cinder functionallites. | 12:56 |
hkumarmk | I am facing a problem on pinging between vms created on multiple hosts | 12:57 |
hkumarmk | vms on same nodes are accessible, but those on different nodes are not pingable/accessible between them | 12:57 |
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hkumarmk | say when I ping from vm1 on compute1 to vm2 on compute2, I see arp request is reaching compute2 bridge interface and is making arp reply, but it never reached compute1 interfaces | 12:59 |
hkumarmk | but if I ping from vm1 and vm3 both hosted on compute1, they work fine | 13:00 |
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hkumarmk | Could anybody please help....... | 13:01 |
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scsnow | hkumarmk, did you configured ports on your physical switch as trunk? | 13:09 |
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hkumarmk | Thanks very much for your help, btw, I am trying this setup in vmware workstation environment | 13:10 |
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hkumarmk | I setup three vms on vmware workstation, and setup one controller (cc1) and two computes (cc2, cc3) | 13:10 |
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hkumarmk | I have not checked setting up the workstation switch as trunk... I will see if there is an option... Btw scsnow, is trunking required for flatdhcp? | 13:12 |
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hick0rd | hello, we have created all-in-one openstack environment ( controller + compute ), however we are unable to create a volume group within the same machine. | 13:15 |
hick0rd | any ideas? | 13:15 |
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hkumarmk | hello, we are trying to setup openstack with zeromq, with flatdhcp multi-host networking with nova-network, with kvm hypervisor on ubuntu 12.04. | 13:24 |
hkumarmk | The problem we are facing is that the vms running on different compute hosts are not able to communicate between them; at the same time, vms on same host are able to communicate. | 13:24 |
hkumarmk | I see when I ping from vm1 running on compute1 to vm2 running on compute2, the arp request broadcast is reaching vm2 and is replying which is reaching compute2 bridge interface (br100 and corresponding eth interface), but the reply is not reaching to compute1 bridge interface. | 13:24 |
hkumarmk | Any help is greatly appreciated..... :) | 13:24 |
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AMike | hello all | 13:43 |
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trevorj | Hi guys, I've been thinking of starting a project to implement RAFT into OpenStack | 13:51 |
AMike | can anyone tell, I can or not does switch in live from software VXLAN solution to hardware VXLAN solution (eg. using arista devices)? | 13:52 |
trevorj | I'm no expert on either, but I love hacking on consensus applications, and I think it would greatly benefit the community | 13:52 |
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user1929022 | hello - i was wondering what the best approach would be for a daemon of sorts that needs to make authenticated requests to open stack? Basically I want to send a request to a web server which will initiate some steps - one of the steps is provisioning a VM in open stack | 15:20 |
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user1929022 | so the web server would need to authenticate w/ keystone first - i would prefer to provide a username/password on startup or a token that can be renewed | 15:21 |
user1929022 | does keystone allow token renewal? | 15:21 |
user1929022 | and is the token a per tenant thing? | 15:21 |
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hkumarmk | hello, we are trying to setup openstack with zeromq, with flatdhcp multi-host networking with nova-network, with kvm hypervisor on ubuntu 12.04. | 16:14 |
hkumarmk | The problem we are facing is that the vms running on different compute hosts are not able to communicate between them; at the same time, vms on same host are able to communicate. | 16:14 |
hkumarmk | I see when I ping from vm1 running on compute1 to vm2 running on compute2, the arp request broadcast is reaching vm2 and is replying which is reaching compute2 bridge interface (br100 and corresponding eth interface), but the reply is not reaching to compute1 bridge interface. | 16:14 |
hkumarmk | Any help is greatly appreciated..... :) | 16:14 |
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mrproper | Sam-I-Am: Hey | 16:52 |
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srao | hi, noob using devstack for multimode needs help. Right forum? | 17:54 |
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Sam-I-Am | it can be | 17:59 |
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rsty1 | I am building a home NAS (SmartOS) and would like to install OpenStack as an alternative to a seperate ESXi box and have SmartOS + OpenStack on the same box and maybe expand a second openstack box as my budget allows. With SmartOS + KVM, I would just install a OpenStack VM using KVM on my SmartOS box? | 18:09 |
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TSCHAKMac | has anyone used Expandrive 3 with Swift? | 18:15 |
TSCHAKMac | I need to figure out what I need to do to get the Access ID and Secret Key that it refers to, to access my swift container. | 18:15 |
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koolhead17 | TSCHAKMac: i thought expand drive has GUI & doc explaining same | 18:35 |
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TSCHAKMac | it has GUI…not even sure where the docs are for explaining how to connect to swift | 18:36 |
TSCHAKMac | I really am not married to ExpandDrive, I just want a client that works! | 18:36 |
TSCHAKMac | :) | 18:36 |
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koolhead17 | TSCHAKMac: you can check cyberduck too :) | 18:36 |
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koolhead17 | TSCHAKMac: http://docs.openstack.org/grizzly/openstack-object-storage/admin/content/part-ii-configuring-cyberduck.html this helps :) | 18:39 |
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koolhead17 | ekarlso: around | 19:27 |
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lbalbalba | hi. anyone around with experience with setting up rdo/packstack on fedora ? im running into some issues | 20:20 |
lbalbalba | the (puppet ?) script / step '_mysql.pp' is faling, with the problem being failure to execute the command : " mysqladmin -u root password 'c41a355a674d401c' " | 20:21 |
mrproper | Do you have mysqladmn installed | 20:21 |
mrproper | If so, are you able to run those commands manually | 20:22 |
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lbalbalba | running the command myself results in this : error: 'Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost' (using password: NO)' | 20:22 |
mrproper | I'm not sure which levels of fedora RDO is made for | 20:22 |
mrproper | Did you do a mysqladmin -u root -p ? | 20:22 |
lbalbalba | its 'supposed' to run on fedora 19 accoridng to the web site | 20:23 |
lbalbalba | ' mysqladmin -u root -p ' results in a syntax error. | 20:23 |
mrproper | Oh i see, okay | 20:24 |
mrproper | How about mysql -u root -p | 20:24 |
mrproper | That will see if we have a password set yet | 20:24 |
lbalbalba | that asks me for a password. | 20:24 |
mrproper | And yet mysqladmin -u root password asdf doesn't work huh | 20:24 |
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mrproper | Have you previously set a password | 20:25 |
lbalbalba | no. but i *have* run 'packstack --allinone' before (it failed with another error on me before, and i havent gotten around to retrying before now) | 20:26 |
mrproper | I wonder if it set a password and cant access because of it | 20:26 |
mrproper | Check your mysql logs | 20:26 |
lbalbalba | seems likely | 20:26 |
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lbalbalba | but i dont know how to fix it | 20:26 |
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mrproper | http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/resetting-permissions.html | 20:27 |
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mrproper | There may be some reconfigure script as well, not sure. | 20:27 |
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lbalbalba | yeah that allows me to reset the password to a known value. but the script wont be using that by default, i guess | 20:30 |
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lbalbalba | i rteset the pass to ' ' | 20:30 |
mrproper | Ther'es probably a way to clear it altogether | 20:30 |
mrproper | Not sure how | 20:30 |
lbalbalba | lets see if that helps | 20:30 |
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lbalbalba | nope. same error again. sigh. looks like i have to do another fresh install of fedora 19 *again* to get past that. and stick with it until it completes successfully ;) | 20:34 |
mrproper | What if you remove mysql and reinstall | 20:34 |
mrproper | Make sure all the mysql cruft is gone | 20:34 |
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lbalbalba | yeah that could work, if only i knew what that 'mysql cruft' actually consists of ;) tried to just do a remove of ~/.my.cnf', but that didnt work | 20:36 |
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mrproper | You're more likely going to need to remove the database itself, but I don't know what goes along with that. | 20:36 |
mrproper | I think you can delete the database and reinstantiate it | 20:37 |
mrproper | It may cause a problem or two later, but it will get you started | 20:37 |
lbalbalba | ' rpm -qa | grep -i sql ' doenst give my any relevant hits. do you know wherer the database usually is located ? ' /var/mysql/db/ ' ? | 20:38 |
pix9 | hmm | 20:38 |
pix9 | lol | 20:38 |
pix9 | why are you removing it manyally? | 20:39 |
mrproper | pix9: Do you know how to remove the root password altogether? | 20:39 |
lbalbalba | because packstack isnt doing it automagically ;) | 20:39 |
pix9 | for mysql? | 20:39 |
mrproper | Yes | 20:39 |
pix9 | rune mysql_secure_install | 20:39 |
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pix9 | that allows you to reset roost's apssword | 20:40 |
lbalbalba | bash: mysql_secure_install: command not found... | 20:40 |
pix9 | umm wait let me give you exact command | 20:40 |
lbalbalba | no not 'just' reset it to a known value. i can do that. relove it altogether, so that the script can reset it to a value the script knows | 20:40 |
lbalbalba | remove | 20:41 |
pix9 | it is mysql_secure_installation | 20:41 |
lbalbalba | thanks. but that just asks me for the current password | 20:41 |
pix9 | run that command and follow instructions | 20:41 |
pix9 | enter | 20:41 |
pix9 | and get started | 20:41 |
pix9 | lol | 20:41 |
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pix9 | there waas other way of resetting root password | 20:42 |
pix9 | but i've forgotten | 20:42 |
pix9 | btw even I am settingup openstack on f19 | 20:42 |
lbalbalba | and youre not running into isses. ok sounds encouraging, at least | 20:42 |
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pix9 | not much but yeah | 20:44 |
pix9 | I don't expect smooth ride on first try | 20:44 |
pix9 | some silly errors and stuffs as on now | 20:45 |
pix9 | adding glance db was lil squickey | 20:45 |
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lbalbalba | im about to give up throw hand into air and just retry on centos 6.x | 20:46 |
pix9 | glad to see people still using this thing even in world of FB | 20:46 |
pix9 | err | 20:46 |
pix9 | 6.? | 20:46 |
pix9 | you need atlease 6.4 to try that | 20:47 |
lbalbalba | yeah, gonna go for 6.5 | 20:47 |
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pix9 | or you can try f19 of f20 | 20:47 |
lbalbalba | you mean *this* insteads of facebook ? im just oldfashioned that way ;) | 20:47 |
pix9 | i am working on f19 | 20:47 |
pix9 | actully i hate fb | 20:47 |
pix9 | I see a lots of romantic fools on FB | 20:48 |
pix9 | not that all of them are same, but I like these classic irc :D | 20:48 |
lbalbalba | fb was a nife way to get back in touch with people i havent seen for decades and would never ever have found back again otherwise | 20:49 |
pix9 | yeah | 20:49 |
pix9 | Tho it helps to keep relatives out of home | 20:50 |
pix9 | :P | 20:50 |
lbalbalba | lol | 20:50 |
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lbalbalba | kay, here goes my retry on centos 6.5 | 20:51 |
* lbalbalba keeps fingers crossed | 20:51 | |
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pix9 | wish you good luck | 20:54 |
pix9 | and I've royaly messed some commands | 20:54 |
pix9 | :D | 20:54 |
lbalbalba | yeah i really hope this will result in a working setup. ive been messing arounbd with devstack on fedora19, and things havent exactly going as i hoped until now. so i was hoping rdo/packstack would be a smoother experience | 20:56 |
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pix9 | hmmm | 20:56 |
pix9 | they work | 20:56 |
pix9 | on rhel it works smooth | 20:56 |
lbalbalba | devstack 'sortish' worked for me | 20:56 |
pix9 | hmm | 20:57 |
pix9 | i've tried it work packstack | 20:57 |
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pix9 | trying on f19 | 20:57 |
pix9 | it should work on f19 | 20:57 |
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lbalbalba | oh, great. failure. puppet script '_prescript.pp' fails. some thing about a package insdtalled badly. even 'yum update' failed. great. gonna run 'yum update --skip-broken', lets see if that leaves me in a good state | 21:00 |
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lbalbalba | maybe i should just invest in going with debian/ubuntu. most of the docs seem to be based on that | 21:03 |
pix9 | hmm | 21:04 |
pix9 | which docs are you using? | 21:04 |
pix9 | it works verry wel on rhel 6.4 | 21:05 |
pix9 | that means it should also work on centos 6.4 | 21:05 |
pix9 | and releases which came after that. | 21:06 |
lbalbalba | well lets see on centos 6.5 | 21:06 |
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lbalbalba | nope. '_prescript.pp' failed. | 21:07 |
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pix9 | hmm | 21:07 |
lbalbalba | Notice: /Stage[main]/Packstack::Netns/Exec[netns_dependecy_install]/returns: Error: Package: kernel-2.6.32-431.1.2.0.1.el6.i686 (updates) | 21:07 |
pix9 | looks like you are using packstack | 21:07 |
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pix9 | ahh | 21:07 |
lbalbalba | failed dependencies in the log file | 21:07 |
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pix9 | did you run yum update before starting with installation of openstack | 21:07 |
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pix9 | and yes you also need to add few repos on centos versions | 21:08 |
lbalbalba | yeah i tried that, it completed, i even rebooted. still the same results | 21:08 |
pix9 | even in fedora it is needed | 21:08 |
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lbalbalba | well the 'quick start' *could* mention that then | 21:08 |
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pix9 | heh few things are hidden under hood | 21:09 |
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pix9 | well even in rhel it failed for me when i did it without updating | 21:09 |
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pix9 | actully few packages are fetched from some other repos | 21:10 |
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pix9 | and packstack mostlikely fails for anything outside rhel :P | 21:10 |
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lbalbalba | sooo... what *would* you recommend for getting a working 'all-in-one-system' install, then ? | 21:11 |
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pix9 | follow manual install | 21:14 |
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pix9 | because openstack contains lots of bits and pieces floting all around | 21:14 |
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pix9 | in rhel that have taken efforsts to make them available in one place | 21:14 |
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lbalbalba | manual. ok. but what docs, what linux distribution tyo use ? | 21:15 |
pix9 | other option would be go with ubuntu | 21:15 |
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lbalbalba | im still very new to all things openstack | 21:15 |
pix9 | because they don't have things spreadout like few hidden | 21:15 |
pix9 | unlike in rhel based distros | 21:15 |
pix9 | it's sometimes painful that all repos are not configured | 21:16 |
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pix9 | i belive ubuntu would be easiest although i've not tried it on ubuntu. | 21:16 |
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lbalbalba | yeah this : --->>> <pix9> because openstack contains lots of bits and pieces floting all around | 21:16 |
lbalbalba | kay, guess my next try is gonna be ubuntu, then | 21:18 |
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lbalbalba | any recommendations on what release/version of ubuntu ? | 21:18 |
opie08 | hi, I trying to configure nova-network for havana using same configurations as grizzly but it doesnt seem to create the bridge needed when i create the VM, but on grizzly it wasnt a problem. any ides for fixing this? on a physical debian machine | 21:19 |
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lbalbalba | well, downloading ubuntu 12.04.3 server. lets fire up a vm with that later, and lets see how far that gets me into the openstack installation ;) | 21:27 |
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pix91 | hmm | 21:32 |
pix91 | good | 21:32 |
pix91 | sorry had dc | 21:32 |
pix91 | hope I didn't missed any of your questions. | 21:32 |
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lbalbalba | no problem. ive had the cat jumping all up and down my keyboard on me too :P | 21:34 |
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pix91 | woh you've got kitty :D | 21:37 |
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pix91 | mine went out few hours back :P | 21:37 |
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lbalbalba | so, where were we ? ah, yes: the One True Way of installing openstack | 21:39 |
pix91 | lol | 21:40 |
pix91 | now my fingers have got tired typing those commands :P | 21:40 |
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mrproper | I'm wondering if Juniper is blocking traffic one way | 21:42 |
pix91 | sorry? | 21:43 |
lbalbalba | details, please :P | 21:43 |
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pix91 | @lbalbalba that is for whom? | 21:46 |
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lbalbalba | details on th Juniper blocking | 21:47 |
pix91 | hmm | 21:47 |
pix91 | i am now downloading image for glance ;D | 21:47 |
lbalbalba | still waiting on my ubuntu install to finish myself | 21:47 |
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pix91 | wondering where it will get stored :D | 21:48 |
pix91 | lol you've got it already? | 21:48 |
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lbalbalba | ? /var/lib/glance' ? | 21:48 |
pix91 | you seem to be having a really fast internet. | 21:48 |
lbalbalba | 50mb/sec. | 21:48 |
pix91 | that could be discovered after uploading it again to glance. | 21:49 |
lbalbalba | installing takes longer than donwloading the stuff | 21:49 |
pix91 | holy cow :O | 21:49 |
pix91 | and here I am using 512kbps *hides face* | 21:49 |
lbalbalba | oh no, youre still stuck with dial up phone/modem speeds ? | 21:50 |
lbalbalba | i got fiber to the home | 21:50 |
lbalbalba | could have gone with 100mb, but that was too costly for me | 21:50 |
pix91 | lol i am using adsl | 21:51 |
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pix91 | sadly internet connections costs a bomb in here :-/ | 21:51 |
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lbalbalba | that sucks. | 21:53 |
lbalbalba | this also sucks: installed ubuntu in a vmware workstation vm, and now i dont have the root password | 21:53 |
lbalbalba | was an 'easy install', it said | 21:53 |
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lbalbalba | yes ! sudo -s works | 21:53 |
pix91 | :D | 21:54 |
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lbalbalba | crap. id ont no shit about ubuntu. how do i install&enable sshd ? | 21:55 |
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pix91 | sudo apt-get install sshd | 21:56 |
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pix91 | to enable chkconfig sshd on should work | 21:57 |
pix91 | looks like glance worked for me | 21:57 |
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pix91 | atlast 2 services configured | 21:58 |
pix91 | now I am going to bed | 21:58 |
pix91 | good night | 21:58 |
pix91 | sweet dreams | 21:58 |
pix91 | take care | 21:58 |
lbalbalba | thanks. that installed the server. chkconfig sshd on gives me a unknown service error | 21:58 |
lbalbalba | good noght | 21:58 |
lbalbalba | sweet dreams | 21:58 |
pix91 | well you may google how to enable sshd on ubuntu | 21:59 |
pix91 | there is a huge forum support for ubuntu | 21:59 |
pix91 | that's why i recomended you that distro | 21:59 |
lbalbalba | thanks ! now go to bed you ! | 22:00 |
pix91 | you google for any thing you would definately get some or other things at their forums | 22:00 |
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lbalbalba | well looks like ive gotten a up n running ubuntu install at least for now. guess il be playing around with openstack on ubuntu tommorrow | 22:08 |
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Ryan_Lane | I'm using the glance command (folsom) and for some reason it is sending commands to the wrong region's endpoint | 22:31 |
Ryan_Lane | any ideas? | 22:32 |
Sam-I-Am | is the region specified incorrectly? | 22:32 |
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Ryan_Lane | no | 22:33 |
Ryan_Lane | it works properly for nova | 22:33 |
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Sam-I-Am | does the endpoint have the right region in keystone? | 22:33 |
Ryan_Lane | yes | 22:34 |
Ryan_Lane | and when I try via http directly it works fine | 22:34 |
Ryan_Lane | nova's endpoint command actually does return the incorrect endpoints | 22:35 |
Ryan_Lane | but its commands work properly | 22:35 |
Ryan_Lane | I'm assuming it's displaying them incorrectly | 22:35 |
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Sam-I-Am | thats odd | 22:39 |
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Ryan_Lane | yep | 22:39 |
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Sam-I-Am | can you see if glance is setting the correct region in its request? | 22:42 |
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Ryan_Lane | well, as usual keystone logs basically nothing | 22:44 |
Ryan_Lane | even with it set to debug | 22:44 |
Sam-I-Am | does it show the rest stuff? | 22:45 |
Ryan_Lane | nope | 22:45 |
Ryan_Lane | it logs nothing except for errors | 22:45 |
Ryan_Lane | and warnings | 22:45 |
Sam-I-Am | tcpdump might show the headers go by | 22:45 |
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Ryan_Lane | ah, I needed to change keystone's logging.conf | 22:46 |
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Ryan_Lane | heh, and now it just shows what it's doing via ldap | 22:47 |
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Sam-I-Am | heh | 22:47 |
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Ryan_Lane | who needs to debug ever? not anyone in production. nosiree | 22:48 |
Sam-I-Am | lol | 22:48 |
Sam-I-Am | i'm trying to update some install docs and getting backed into a corner by the xml :/ | 22:49 |
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Ryan_Lane | heh | 22:49 |
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Sam-I-Am | not doing exactly what i want | 22:50 |
Sam-I-Am | but i guess for now it'll do and we can make it look better for the icehouse release | 22:50 |
Sam-I-Am | or someone will suggest better code | 22:50 |
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johnsterdotcom | anyone seen a senario where the second interface on a grizzly/quantum VM is unusable (cannot ping gateway, etc)? | 23:23 |
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morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, there is another logging option that (I think) needs to be set. | 23:52 |
Ryan_Lane | man, multi-region just seems to be broken in folsom | 23:52 |
Ryan_Lane | so many things just don't work right | 23:52 |
morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, you're running Folsom? | 23:52 |
Ryan_Lane | well, we're going to add a havana zone, migrate to it, then decommission the folsom one | 23:53 |
Ryan_Lane | (we're moving datacenters) | 23:53 |
Ryan_Lane | (otherwise we'd just upgrade) | 23:53 |
morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, ah. I can't help much with Folsom, I skipped it. went essex -> Grizzly | 23:53 |
Ryan_Lane | well, until now folsom worked pretty well | 23:53 |
Ryan_Lane | this seems to be pretty broken | 23:53 |
morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, the logging issue, that in Folsom or Havana? | 23:54 |
Ryan_Lane | that's just keystone :) | 23:54 |
Ryan_Lane | kidding | 23:54 |
Ryan_Lane | folsom | 23:54 |
Ryan_Lane | I haven't tried havana yet. colleague is doing that | 23:54 |
morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, ah, bleh, nvm, my "fix" is havana related. | 23:54 |
Ryan_Lane | I'm working on multi-region support | 23:54 |
morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, there is a "default_logging_levels" (or similarly named option) that might need to be changed to get full output from keystone in havana | 23:55 |
Ryan_Lane | yep. I changed that. it didn't seem to help much | 23:55 |
morganfainberg | s/full output/debug output | 23:55 |
morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, in folsom, not sure | 23:55 |
Ryan_Lane | I think keystone is working fine | 23:56 |
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Ryan_Lane | I think it's just that the nova and glance client don't properly support regions | 23:56 |
morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, ah, that might be it | 23:57 |
Ryan_Lane | my web interface works perfectly with the regions/endpoints/services from keystone | 23:57 |
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Ryan_Lane | nova client at least sends commands to the right places. it just lists the endpoints incorrectly | 23:57 |
morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, Regions are getting some love in Icehouse. | 23:57 |
morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, hopefully they get better. not that it helps you in this migration | 23:58 |
Ryan_Lane | heh | 23:58 |
Ryan_Lane | yeah. I'm just keeping a list of workarounds we need | 23:58 |
Ryan_Lane | thankfully none of them are showstoppers so far | 23:58 |
morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane, nod. well i hope you don't run into any show stoppers. | 23:59 |
Ryan_Lane | well, I've gotten far enough that I'm pretty sure I won't | 23:59 |
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