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| Akshik | AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'load_backends' while trying to configure apache with httpd, im using ubuntu 14.04 with juno any help | 05:51 |
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| nullsign | once a VM's image has grown due to usage - is there a way to shrink it back down once you've deleted files in it that had caused the .img file to grow it? | 07:41 |
| nullsign | or do you have to start over? | 07:41 |
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| ANish_ | Hi Guys | 10:34 |
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| Billias | Hey Guys, is it possible to have Multiple neutron nodes to server different networks? on the same zone? | 11:48 |
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| Guest31169 | sir i want to know your username for gsco organisation | 12:26 |
| Guest31169 | gsoc* | 12:26 |
| Guest31169 | is there ny one? | 12:27 |
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| Billias | omg these bots | 12:37 |
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| larsks | Billias: I think that is possible, yes. In fact, prior to icehouse if you wanted multiple external networks you *needed* to run multiple l3 agents, which I think could run on different hosts. | 13:29 |
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| SamYaple | larsks: im sure glad we got all the craziness with external networks out of our systems by Icehouse.... | 13:46 |
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| Billias | Basically the concept of an active active network node setup would be nice., in order to increase the thoughput. | 14:40 |
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| Billias | If i setup 2 network nodes, with different pools, will the system choose the proper by itself? | 14:41 |
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| Billias | and manage the same GRE addresses? | 14:43 |
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| Sam-I-Am | there are schedulers you can choose | 14:46 |
| Billias | I think, this is the part I need to read on right? http://docs.openstack.org/high-availability-guide/content/ha-using-active-active.html | 14:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | you should probably look at DVR which eliminates the network node bottlenecks for the most part | 14:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | thats ancient | 14:47 |
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| Sam-I-Am | we're rewriting the HA guide for modern stuff | 14:47 |
| Billias | ok :) | 14:47 |
| Billias | I will check it | 14:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | juno has schedulers that mostly work, although you might want to augment it with the at&t script. | 14:47 |
| Billias | basically, I am setting up a new environment. | 14:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | here's dvr - https://github.com/ionosphere80/openstack-networking-guide/blob/master/scenario-dvr/scenario-dvr.md | 14:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | i wouldnt use dvr in prod until kilo, but if you're setting up a new environment and want to eliminate contention on the network node, its probably something to research | 14:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | there's also L3HA, but it merely enables fast failover of network nodes... not really addressing the performance problem | 14:49 |
| Billias | it is going to be our Demo env, so we can build POC projects on it (internal) | 14:49 |
| Billias | and I think I will go for kilo (even if it not released) | 14:49 |
| Sam-I-Am | long story short about DVR... for instances with floating IPs, traffic bypasses the network node. | 14:49 |
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| Billias | basically each compute node, serves directly instead of the tunneling net | 14:50 |
| Sam-I-Am | yep | 14:50 |
| Sam-I-Am | for floating IPs (external connectivity) and routing among tenant networks (on the same router) | 14:51 |
| Billias | yeap | 14:51 |
| Sam-I-Am | if you don't need the self-service aspect of networking, you could also use provider networks | 14:51 |
| Billias | which means? | 14:52 |
| Sam-I-Am | if you're familiar with vmware and its vswitches... its more or less the same concept | 14:52 |
| Sam-I-Am | self-service or provider networks? | 14:53 |
| Billias | provider networks.. will search about it | 14:53 |
| Billias | found it. | 14:54 |
| Sam-I-Am | so, this content isn't done yet, but it might help. | 14:54 |
| Sam-I-Am | https://github.com/ionosphere80/openstack-networking-guide/blob/master/scenario-providernet/scenario-providernet.md | 14:54 |
| Sam-I-Am | it depends on whether you want self-service networking or not | 14:54 |
| Sam-I-Am | if your tenants wont mess with networking, and you have a capable physical network, provider networks eliminate the network node. | 14:55 |
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| Billias | basically, The scenario is to release my self from hanging from 1 network node… in case it goes berserker for any reason. | 14:56 |
| Billias | in a production environment makes more sense the provider-networks | 14:56 |
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| Sam-I-Am | if its a reliability issue, you can use scheduling, L3HA, DVR, or provider networks. if you also want to eliminate the bottleneck, DVR or provider networks. | 14:57 |
| Billias | bottlenecks… my network nodes will have a 4*1GB bonds and the compute nodes 2*1GB bonds, i cannot find a bottleneck on an environment with not so network hungry vms. | 14:58 |
| Billias | for the tunneling network. | 14:58 |
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| Billias | I am just looking for HA, which scheduling seems to be one way | 14:59 |
| Sam-I-Am | L3HA is good for HA | 14:59 |
| Sam-I-Am | it basically adds vrrp to your network nodes | 15:00 |
| Billias | and balancing together | 15:00 |
| Sam-I-Am | an augmentation of scheduling, which is not fast and breaks connectivity. | 15:00 |
| Sam-I-Am | well, sort of. each router will get scheduled separately. | 15:00 |
| Sam-I-Am | if one router gets really busy, you get a bottleneck | 15:00 |
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| Billias | and if it dies, it moves to the other one. which even some seconds are acceptable for me. | 15:01 |
| Sam-I-Am | yes | 15:02 |
| Sam-I-Am | L3HA enables the quickness | 15:02 |
| Sam-I-Am | as quick as vrrp works, at least | 15:02 |
| Billias | is this: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/L3_High_Availability_VRRP old too? | 15:02 |
| Sam-I-Am | thats the spec for L3HA. i'm currently working on the docs for configuring it with openvswitch... the docs for configuring it with linuxbridge are almost ready here: | 15:04 |
| Sam-I-Am | https://github.com/phil-hopkins-a/openstack-networking-guide | 15:04 |
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| Sam-I-Am | all of this content is in staging for the networking guide that will be on docs.openstack.org in a few months | 15:05 |
| Sam-I-Am | lots to do and not a lot of writers :/ | 15:05 |
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| Billias | well, let me see what I can do, and I will talk to you, for writing some stuf | 15:10 |
| Billias | cause I start a new job, and the IT is a mess… and working even sundays | 15:11 |
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| Sam-I-Am | heh | 15:14 |
| Sam-I-Am | sounds typical :) | 15:14 |
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| Billias | i mean… we have production servers with Pickup service | 15:26 |
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| Billias | instead of on site support... | 15:26 |
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| Sam-I-Am | oh my | 15:27 |
| Billias | yeap… and when I realised this i was like WT Fung | 15:27 |
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| Sam-I-Am | that practice was pretty common when i worked at universities and small businesses | 15:30 |
| Sam-I-Am | it'd be easier to keep one machine on the shelf, but it didnt help the downtime aspect. | 15:30 |
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| Billias | you are right but | 15:33 |
| Billias | in the end the cost difference of having spare systems is again high | 15:33 |
| Billias | rephrasing it: in the end the cost of having a good service plan and spare systems is almost the same. | 15:34 |
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| Sam-I-Am | but people dont see it that way | 15:40 |
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| Sam-I-Am | there's capital expenditure "i do this once" vs "i have to pay what every year for things that depreciate?" | 15:40 |
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| Sam-I-Am | at least that was the story i got | 15:40 |
| Billias | well in that case | 15:41 |
| Sam-I-Am | it often ended up being a combination of cheapest support possible + spare machine to reduce downtime | 15:41 |
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| Billias | I always replied: you will receive my written report, of the possible consequences of your choice, and I have 0 responsibility for that. :) | 15:42 |
| Sam-I-Am | haha | 15:42 |
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| Sam-I-Am | people dont often realize the cost of downtime | 15:42 |
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| Sam-I-Am | the cloud concept, if your app is written for the cloud, greatly reduces or eliminates reliance on specific hardware | 15:43 |
| Sam-I-Am | you should be able to lose a box and no one notices because the instance spins up again automatically somewhere else | 15:44 |
| Sam-I-Am | and the app should be stateless, or managed by a load balancer | 15:44 |
| Sam-I-Am | gone are the days of installing an OS by hand... and then having to rebuild from a backup if the box pukes. | 15:44 |
| Billias | they still do it | 15:45 |
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| Billias | now i introduce an pxe server with an one time boot script and a Machine DB | 15:45 |
| Billias | for the cloud instances! | 15:45 |
| Billias | I have a question… does Heat support provisioning at AWS? | 15:45 |
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| Sam-I-Am | which is sort of why i chuckle at people wanting live migration a la vmware in openstack... because "cloudy" apps dont need or benefit from live migration | 15:45 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i think it does, at least i've seen EC2 stuff in it | 15:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | but i'm not a heat expert | 15:46 |
| Billias | oh | 15:46 |
| Billias | well The app is a java app which connects on a DB server | 15:46 |
| Billias | so, the DB cluster is separate | 15:46 |
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| Billias | the java apps are cloudy like! cause they just provide a tcp port and db queries! | 15:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | does the java app have a http-like front-end? | 15:47 |
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| Billias | no it is internal api calls, through tcp | 15:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | so what happens if an instance dies? | 15:47 |
| Billias | the HA proxy in front of it | 15:47 |
| Billias | removes it from the stack | 15:47 |
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| Sam-I-Am | does it nuke existing connections? | 15:47 |
| Billias | and if the HA proxy dies, vrrp switches to the secondary | 15:47 |
| Billias | yes | 15:48 |
| Billias | but the device which sends the data | 15:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | so... corosync/pacemaker + haproxy? | 15:48 |
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| Billias | doesn't care, case if the app doesn't get confirmation, resends the data to our system | 15:48 |
| Billias | yeap | 15:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | so its mostly cloudy then | 15:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | guess you dont need on-site support :) | 15:48 |
| Billias | i need for the compute nodes | 15:48 |
| Billias | and for my easy going evenings | 15:49 |
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| Billias | i want my guys to work on more creative stuff than moving a dead server | 15:49 |
| Sam-I-Am | nothing breaks during the evening, it waits for 3am | 15:49 |
| Sam-I-Am | sundays, too. | 15:49 |
| Billias | i know | 15:49 |
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| Billias | it is always the worst moment. | 15:49 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i dont miss the days of managing prod stuff and being on-call | 15:50 |
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| Billias | I hate them :) | 15:50 |
| Billias | but | 15:50 |
| Billias | i want my on-call guys to be more relaxed… and you know | 15:50 |
| Billias | more creative than moving boxes (as I said) | 15:50 |
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| Sam-I-Am | sure | 15:51 |
| Billias | I prefer to learn some puppet/chef or what ever they like and help me improve the Infra instead of plugging cables, and blah blah | 15:51 |
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| Billias | because the previous manager, was the guy which doesn't share knowledge or even the Production structure! | 15:51 |
| Billias | and thats not nice. | 15:51 |
| Sam-I-Am | if the cloud infra and the apps on it are designed well enough, you should be able to defer hardware replacements until daytime | 15:52 |
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| Billias | excactly | 15:52 |
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| Billias | thats why I also began a discussion with Devs | 15:52 |
| Billias | to allign them with the cloudy concept | 15:52 |
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| Sam-I-Am | makes sense | 15:54 |
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| Sam-I-Am | or they just panic :) | 15:54 |
| Sam-I-Am | hard to teach old dogs new tricks sometimes | 15:54 |
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| Billias | yeah… an the concept i followed was to show them the difference between simple tasks, and force them spend 1 day a week to read about new things… which helps | 15:56 |
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| Billias | helped* a lot… they start being more social, and expressing their thoughts. | 15:56 |
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| Sam-I-Am | developers social? where do you work lol | 15:57 |
| Billias | yeah… with some beer | 15:57 |
| Billias | and unreal ;p | 15:57 |
| Billias | it takes some time to convince! but then… the golden question | 15:58 |
| Billias | Prove me, that your method is better than mine! and I will accept it. | 15:58 |
| Billias | it is like hitting their button | 15:58 |
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| Sam-I-Am | heh | 15:59 |
| Sam-I-Am | beer seems to resolve lots of issues | 15:59 |
| Billias | or makes it worst :P | 16:00 |
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| Sam-I-Am | nahhhh | 16:01 |
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| Sam-I-Am | aight, i need to begin house chores :/ | 16:07 |
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| Sam-I-Am | reminds me that server work isnt so bad | 16:07 |
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| Billias | he :) | 16:17 |
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| Akshik | AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'load_backends' while trying to configure apache with httpd, im using ubuntu 14.04 with juno any help | 16:43 |
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| Billias | Sam-I-Am: For a proper design. (except compute nodes) | 17:03 |
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| Billias | is a single cpu (Xeon latest gen) with 32GB ram enough for controller and network node? | 17:03 |
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| Sam-I-Am | how many cores, and what sort of networking? | 17:04 |
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| Billias | lets say typical neutron | 17:04 |
| Billias | setup. with GRE and | 17:05 |
| Billias | a flat public | 17:05 |
| Sam-I-Am | unless you have special offloading nics, gre/vxlan can eat cpu. | 17:05 |
| Billias | for network: 4GB (4*1GB bond) with a E5-2630v3 (2,4 8core, 16thread) | 17:05 |
| Billias | I am talking about a Dell poweredge. | 17:06 |
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| Billias | let me check the nics | 17:06 |
| Sam-I-Am | thats probably not enough bandwidth to matter too much. i'd get concerned with 10 gig though. | 17:06 |
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| Billias | with capability to upgrade it to dualcore later | 17:06 |
| Billias | stateless offload is enough? (as mentioned from broadcom | 17:07 |
| Sam-I-Am | well, some nics have more trouble than others with tunnels | 17:07 |
| Sam-I-Am | some are designed for it (mellanox comes to mind), some you have to tweak things to make it work well. | 17:07 |
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| Sam-I-Am | this is also why a lot of people use vlans if they dont expect to have more than a couple thousand tenant nets | 17:08 |
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| Billias | i expect to have like 10 tenant nts | 17:08 |
| Billias | and about 40vms | 17:08 |
| Billias | it is a small setup | 17:08 |
| Billias | it is a development setup | 17:09 |
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| Sam-I-Am | do you need self-service networks? | 17:09 |
| Billias | with posibility to bring it to 6-7compute nodes | 17:09 |
| Billias | yes | 17:09 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i suspect that small of a deployment shouldnt be too bad. i'd be more concerned about redundancy of other stuff with 1 controller node. | 17:10 |
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| Billias | I prefer to spend a 2h response support | 17:11 |
| Sam-I-Am | if your stuff expects lots of network performance, you could pre-configure a handful of vlans on your switches and let the tenant networks use them | 17:11 |
| Billias | for that node instead of a second node | 17:11 |
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| Billias | i see, this is for the productin scenario then. | 17:11 |
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| Billias | the vlan | 17:12 |
| Billias | so 4gb on network node and 2gb on each compute for the | 17:12 |
| Billias | Tunnel net, is enough? | 17:12 |
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| Billias | for this small net | 17:12 |
| Sam-I-Am | well, your external net traffic is limited by the controller/network node... and intra-tenant traffic if you use conventional neutron | 17:13 |
| Billias | the external traffic will be office access of 1gb | 17:13 |
| Billias | it is for the devs to setup their own replica of our | 17:13 |
| Billias | basically we have something like an Smart home automation | 17:14 |
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| Sam-I-Am | you could use 1 nic for management traffic and 1 nic for tenant networks | 17:14 |
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| Billias | and they need the environment in order to develop the devices on their side! | 17:14 |
| Sam-I-Am | management also includes stuff like... images, block storage, etc. | 17:14 |
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| Billias | but my servers will be with 6 nics onboard | 17:14 |
| Billias | nice | 17:14 |
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| Sam-I-Am | if you have nics available, i'd have a minimum of 3 on each node for max flexibility. | 17:15 |
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| Sam-I-Am | management, tenant networks, and (if you upgrade to provider nets or DVR) external network | 17:15 |
| Billias | yeah right | 17:15 |
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| Billias | i will have 2 spare | 17:16 |
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| Sam-I-Am | you can also co-locate stuff on compute nodes... like object storage and block storage (if you plan to use it) | 17:16 |
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| Billias | no | 17:16 |
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| Billias | i do not need object storage | 17:16 |
| Billias | not even block | 17:16 |
| Billias | cause everything is rebuildable | 17:16 |
| Sam-I-Am | there arent any hard architecture requirements for openstack... its pretty open. | 17:16 |
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| Billias | it was more like an experience question | 17:17 |
| Billias | based on your previous experience | 17:17 |
| Sam-I-Am | just a matter of how to best utilize what you have for the workloads | 17:17 |
| Billias | i see | 17:17 |
| Billias | what is about is simple: | 17:17 |
| Sam-I-Am | for a small env, your controller node is probably fine. | 17:17 |
| Billias | each tenant is a developer. | 17:17 |
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| Billias | each dev can create vms from snapshot, and the vm visits our deploy server and build's it self on first boot with the latest backend service, ha proxy is automatic etc | 17:18 |
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| Billias | and they have an ip to test the device they develop. thats all | 17:18 |
| Billias | so the environment is small | 17:18 |
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| Sam-I-Am | yeah | 17:20 |
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| Sam-I-Am | aight, off to the next set of chores | 17:23 |
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| jab416171 | isn't there a way with virsh to create a new VM based off of the disk of an existing VM, and the new VM writes changes to a new file? | 21:46 |
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| larsks | jab416171: sure. | 22:02 |
| larsks | The 'virsh vol-create' command let's you specify a backing volume. | 22:02 |
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| blahdeblah | OpenStack meetup happening in Brisbane, AU tonight: http://www.meetup.com/Australian-OpenStack-User-Group/events/201085722/ | 23:16 |
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