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Sam-I-Am | Diplomat: as fast as your network | 00:20 |
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SamYaple | Diplomat: yea it has some overhead. latency can be a bit higher | 00:27 |
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lorddaedra | I have some newbie questions about Openstack and cloud, can I ask them there?.. or there is better channel for them? | 00:43 |
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SamYaple | lorddaedra: shoot | 00:46 |
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lorddaedra | Scenario 1. Let's assume, I own startup, and need to host it, I buy some Supermicro or Dell servers and would like create clusters for PostgreSQL databases, for uWSGI & Django & Python application and for static files (nginx), all in docker packages, preferred OS is CoreOS. .. Do I need Openstack or not in this scenario? | 00:48 |
lorddaedra | So do I need to install Openstack and create virtual machines and install CoreOS on them or just install CoreOS to servers and somehow integrate them ? | 00:49 |
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lorddaedra | Docker virtualisation should work faster than KVM (or something similar)-based and CoreOS looks like the best linux for Docker so.. what can Openstack do in this scenario? can it somehow improve something or it's just extra not required link in the chain (in this scanario)? | 00:52 |
lorddaedra | so I try to understand, what Openstack is actually do?.. | 00:53 |
iniazi | lorddaedra: generally speaking, if you were a startup, and didn't know the answer to that question, you wouldn't be able to deploy openstack. Unless I missed something and openstack is easy to install now. | 00:54 |
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iniazi | openstack is a virtualization platform... like cloudstack, eucalyptus, etc. they allow you to manage the infrastruction a little easier or automated fashion. | 00:54 |
lorddaedra | I try to research, which role Openstack can play | 00:54 |
iniazi | but it comes at a cost to complexity, knowledge required to install & maintain. etc. | 00:55 |
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iniazi | if you could setup soething like openstack/cloudstack etc. it does make it easier when you want to scale in the future, as long as you have some devops person to help automate etc. | 00:56 |
iniazi | but its not needed. | 00:56 |
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iniazi | you can run bunch of baremetals with coreos/linux etc. and manage them separately. its virtualized atleast, so its still easier than having non-virtualized stuff | 00:56 |
Pavo | openstack is basically what ESXI can do but with more features and options I would say | 00:56 |
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iniazi | I meant you can run bunch of baremetals instead of virtualization platform. just those virtualization platforms allow you to manage several hosts . | 00:58 |
iniazi | and what Pavo said | 00:58 |
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Pavo | and using packstack deploying openstack isn't that hard anymore | 00:59 |
lorddaedra | baremetal - it's blade servers , right? | 00:59 |
iniazi | physicals | 00:59 |
Pavo | baremetal=physical machines yes | 00:59 |
Pavo | virtualization platform is more cost effective | 01:00 |
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iniazi | lorddaedra: what kind of knowledge are you trying to get from this discusion? I don't want to presume your knowledge level, but I think it would be better for you to use ec2 or rackspace etc. to deploy. | 01:01 |
jidar | if you want to run containers on baremetal out of the gate your options are going to be a little more limited too | 01:01 |
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iniazi | openstack (or cloudstack, eucalyptus) etc. aren't easy to install. I would like to set it up myself. I'm getting back to possibly do it in the next few weeks. but when I looked at it last, it was difficult and time consuming (research, etc. ) | 01:03 |
lorddaedra | if I will buy something like that http://www.supermicro.nl/products/MicroBlade/ , do I need Openstack to combine them in cluster? | 01:03 |
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Pavo | well mirantis fuel can deploy on bare metal machines | 01:03 |
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jidar | lorddaedra: what is the end result look like for you? | 01:04 |
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jidar | do you just want to run containers? | 01:04 |
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lorddaedra | yes, I'm looking for solutions, how it's possible to scale small startup to facebook-like sizes on owned servers (no clouds like Amazon, Google, Rackspace) | 01:06 |
lorddaedra | which servers to buy and how to organise it | 01:06 |
Pavo | well openstack is based off Amazon cloud so.... | 01:06 |
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jidar | nothing we can discuss in this channel even over the next several hours would allow you to understand what it takes to run 'facebook-like' sizes | 01:07 |
lorddaedra | I mean, start from 3 small servers (with ability to use for 5000 requests/second) and be able to increase cloud, add nodes to XXXXX millions requests/second | 01:07 |
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jidar | and to be fair, no boxed solution from any group - rdo, redhat, mirantis, suse is going to get you out of the box to 'facebook-like' sizes | 01:08 |
Pavo | anything you can do on bare metal machines you can do in openstack, just requires a lot more configuration to be able to scale correctly | 01:09 |
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jidar | none of those guys provide architecture to get anywhere near that scale | 01:09 |
jidar | I think mirantis caps out at 200-ish nodes (for their design) | 01:09 |
lorddaedra | I use 1 server which can allow me 2000 requests/second, I would like to increase this limit and I would like to add ability for 'no downtime' (during upgrading OS on my server) | 01:09 |
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lorddaedra | and I'm looking for easy ways to add 2-3 more servers, share storage between them, add load balancing | 01:11 |
iniazi | lorddaedra: ok in that exampe those cloud software won't really buy you anything to scale. you have to figure out hwo you can scale, and then see if these 'cloud' solutions will help you do it. | 01:11 |
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jidar | you're basically asking the question like, "how I get to moon" with something tacked on like, "do I rocket plus jet or just rocket?" | 01:11 |
lorddaedra | :-) | 01:12 |
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lorddaedra | I have some knowledge how to create software (I'm Python developer) and how to use it (I'm Gentoo user), so... I try to research, how to start creating small cloud | 01:14 |
Pavo | well thats good then because openstack uses python | 01:14 |
iniazi | hehe. | 01:15 |
Pavo | if I'm not mistaken its completely build in python | 01:15 |
Sam-I-Am | you should follow the install guide to figure out how it all works, decide what services you need, make them redunant/secure, then automate the deployment process so you can scale | 01:15 |
Pavo | ^ | 01:15 |
Pavo | =1000 | 01:15 |
Pavo | oops | 01:15 |
Pavo | +1000 | 01:15 |
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lorddaedra | I would like to compare Openstack with alternatives: if I will buy http://www.supermicro.nl/products/MicroBlade/ with 3 nodes, will it have any Openstack alternative?.. | 01:17 |
lorddaedra | or even on this server Openstack is the best software for creating cloud? | 01:17 |
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iniazi | lorddaedra: btw, if you want to scale your site, those cloud solutions went ACTUALLY help you with to answer that question. You need to figure out how you can scale the site, and then whatever solution you architect, you can see if a virtualization platform will help you or not | 01:18 |
Pavo | there are a few alternatives but they gonna cost you a ton, openstack is open source | 01:18 |
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iniazi | went=won't | 01:18 |
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Sam-I-Am | openstack - software is free, but you better have some brains in your organization to make it work, and fix it when it breaks | 01:19 |
Pavo | yeah | 01:20 |
Pavo | took me a few weeks of googling to get mine installed the way I wanted it | 01:20 |
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iniazi | i need to install it myself. I have about 6 baremetals that I bought. need to read up on the latest install guides | 01:21 |
lorddaedra | my project consists of 3 parts: 1. Django/Python/uWSGI workers, 2. PostgreSQL database, 3. static files from users, 1. is easy to scale, just add more servers, 2. is hard so scale, because of master-slave replication, need to good server for PostgreSQL master 3. static files is easy to scale, may be need to use Ceph or similar | 01:21 |
iniazi | hopefully its gotten simpler... networking stack makes me worried (neutron or whatever is the latest) | 01:22 |
Sam-I-Am | thats why there's the networking guide | 01:23 |
iniazi | worried, not because docs are good, but i don't have solid understanding of routing etc. if its just subnets, vlans, firewalls/load balancers, etc. I understand that. | 01:24 |
Sam-I-Am | good news... you dont need routing to make openstack work | 01:24 |
iniazi | ok. | 01:25 |
Sam-I-Am | its just a requirement for true self-service cloud networking | 01:25 |
Sam-I-Am | if your tenants dont make their own networks, you dont need routing | 01:25 |
jidar | I'm interested to see IPv6 provisioning | 01:25 |
iniazi | ok cool. | 01:25 |
Sam-I-Am | jidar: it mostly works | 01:26 |
Pavo | this is what helped me getting it going | 01:26 |
Pavo | http://www.flashguides.co.uk/guide/Installing_OpenStack_Kilo_on_CentOS_with_Packstack | 01:26 |
jidar | what protocol are they using to get an IPv6 subnet mapped or requested upstream? | 01:26 |
jidar | or is it all stack now? | 01:26 |
jidar | s/stack/static | 01:26 |
iniazi | yeah i ran into packstack the other day. I hadn't heard of it. is it new? or is it just redhat rebranding installer? | 01:26 |
jidar | packstack has been around for a few years | 01:26 |
jidar | it's just the 'all in one installer' for rpm based, so CentOS and Redhat both use it | 01:27 |
Sam-I-Am | its just another deployment tool, mostly not really production-quality imo | 01:27 |
jidar | not even close really | 01:27 |
jidar | but its fine for ~ <5 nodes | 01:27 |
iniazi | ok. production quality... you mean the deployment has bugs, or the resulting stack would be not production quality | 01:27 |
jidar | does it even do HA yet? | 01:28 |
Pavo | yeah | 01:28 |
jidar | ah ok, it's been a while | 01:28 |
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jidar | so I'll say this, OSP6 using Foreman was awful - and the resulting deployment was awful too | 01:28 |
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jidar | OSP7 seems much more stable and well thought out | 01:29 |
jidar | like that's 3 months I'll never get back | 01:29 |
Sam-I-Am | heh | 01:29 |
Sam-I-Am | i'd just use openstack-ansible | 01:30 |
Sam-I-Am | either way, any sort of large complex install need brain power to manage | 01:30 |
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jidar | did you guys ever build a PXE boot / provision tool? | 01:30 |
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jidar | I looked at Kalasi the other day | 01:30 |
Pavo | mirantis fuel uses a PXE boot solution | 01:30 |
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jidar | Pavo: yea, more curious about the ansible one though | 01:31 |
Pavo | yeah haven't looked at that one yet | 01:31 |
jidar | Fuel/OSP are pretty close to feature parity | 01:31 |
jidar | my org has a few guys doing each | 01:31 |
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Sam-I-Am | rolling hardware provisioning and openstack together = messy, imo | 01:33 |
Sam-I-Am | plus most organizations already have a hw provisioning system | 01:33 |
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jidar | might have to disagree with you on that one | 01:34 |
Pavo | ouch ansible recommended layout contains a minimum of five hosts | 01:34 |
jidar | well not the messy part | 01:34 |
jidar | rather not that it _can_ be messy | 01:34 |
jidar | I'd argue the TripleO approach is pretty solid | 01:35 |
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Pavo | I have heard alot of good things about TripleO | 01:35 |
jidar | ironic has been pretty solid for me excluding a few known bugs | 01:35 |
Sam-I-Am | Pavo: you really dont want any fewer for production | 01:35 |
Pavo | haven't seen it in action though | 01:35 |
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Sam-I-Am | Pavo: it can deploy an all-in-one | 01:35 |
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Sam-I-Am | but i see no reason for < 5 nodes in any prod environment | 01:35 |
jidar | like Foreman with whatever patch to make it do openstack was very poorly thought out | 01:35 |
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Pavo | Sam-I-Am I agree | 01:35 |
jidar | TripleO + ironic/tuskar/etc using all openstack services, glance for the image to boot etc, has been really wonderful to work with | 01:36 |
Sam-I-Am | i thought tripleo kind of... fell off | 01:36 |
Sam-I-Am | it was a thing for a while | 01:36 |
jidar | dunno, but OSP7 is using it and it's fairly solid imho | 01:36 |
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jidar | uses IPMI to manage hosts | 01:37 |
Sam-I-Am | when it breaks... | 01:37 |
Sam-I-Am | thats gonna be fun | 01:37 |
jidar | it's a simple db you nuke | 01:37 |
jidar | and then a json file you import | 01:37 |
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sudo | hello | 03:28 |
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Guest64807 | where is database save in openstack dashboard | 03:28 |
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Guest64807 | :( | 03:29 |
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larsks | Which database? Most openstack services are associated with a mysql database. Horizon really only uses a database for session storage. | 03:39 |
larsks | Individual services have a database uri configured in their respective config file (e.g., /etc/nova/nova.conf for nova) | 03:40 |
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greghaynes | Sam-I-Am: TripleO most definitely still exists | 05:07 |
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Sam-I-Am | greghaynes: oh? | 05:12 |
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Sam-I-Am | aight, bed time | 05:20 |
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snackpack | Is it better to ask Qs in here or #openstack-101? | 07:01 |
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* X123 grins | 14:08 | |
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Sam-I-Am | X123: moo | 14:09 |
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horse | hi all | 17:31 |
horse | anyone using VIO vmware intregarted openstack in the wild? | 17:32 |
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Bofu2U | Is there usually a preferred solution to provide storage for an openstack cluster on a storage server (aka a 36 bay server) that is open source? Or would it be best just to install cinder on there and let it roll? (I know it's a broad question, apologies.) | 19:14 |
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jidar | Bofu2U: lots of people like ceph | 23:42 |
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