Saturday, 2015-10-24

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Sam-I-AmDiplomat: as fast as your network00:20
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SamYapleDiplomat: yea it has some overhead. latency can be a bit higher00:27
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lorddaedraI have some newbie questions about Openstack and cloud, can I ask them there?.. or there is better channel for them?00:43
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SamYaplelorddaedra: shoot00:46
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lorddaedraScenario 1. Let's assume, I own startup, and need to host it, I buy some Supermicro or Dell servers and would like create clusters for PostgreSQL databases, for uWSGI & Django & Python application and for static files (nginx), all in docker packages, preferred OS is CoreOS. .. Do I need Openstack or not in this scenario?00:48
lorddaedraSo do I need to install Openstack and create virtual machines and install CoreOS on them or just install CoreOS to servers and somehow integrate them ?00:49
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lorddaedraDocker virtualisation should work faster than KVM (or something similar)-based and CoreOS looks like the best linux for Docker so.. what can Openstack do in this scenario? can it somehow improve something or it's just extra not required link in the chain (in this scanario)?00:52
lorddaedraso I try to understand, what Openstack is actually do?..00:53
iniazilorddaedra: generally speaking, if you were a startup, and didn't know the answer to that question, you wouldn't be able to deploy openstack.  Unless I missed something and openstack is easy to install now.00:54
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iniaziopenstack is a virtualization platform... like cloudstack, eucalyptus, etc.  they allow you to manage the infrastruction a little easier or automated fashion.00:54
lorddaedraI try to research, which role Openstack can play00:54
iniazibut it comes at a cost to complexity, knowledge required to install & maintain. etc.00:55
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iniaziif you could setup soething like openstack/cloudstack etc. it does make it easier when you want to scale in the future, as long as you have some devops person to help automate etc.00:56
iniazibut its not needed.00:56
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iniaziyou can run bunch of baremetals with coreos/linux etc. and manage them separately.  its virtualized atleast, so its still easier than having non-virtualized stuff00:56
Pavoopenstack is basically what ESXI can do but with more features and options I would say00:56
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iniaziI meant you can run bunch of baremetals instead of virtualization platform.  just those virtualization platforms allow you to manage several hosts .00:58
iniaziand what Pavo said00:58
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Pavoand using packstack deploying openstack isn't that hard anymore00:59
lorddaedrabaremetal - it's blade servers , right?00:59
iniaziphysicals00:59
Pavobaremetal=physical machines yes00:59
Pavovirtualization platform is more cost effective01:00
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iniazilorddaedra: what kind of knowledge are you trying to get from this discusion?   I don't want to presume your knowledge level, but I think it would be better for you to use ec2 or rackspace etc. to deploy.01:01
jidarif you want to run containers on baremetal out of the gate your options are going to be a little more limited too01:01
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iniaziopenstack (or cloudstack, eucalyptus) etc. aren't easy to install.  I would like to set it up myself.  I'm getting back to possibly do it in the next few weeks.  but when I looked at it last, it was difficult and time consuming (research, etc. )01:03
lorddaedraif I will buy something like that http://www.supermicro.nl/products/MicroBlade/ , do I need Openstack to combine them in cluster?01:03
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Pavowell mirantis fuel can deploy on bare metal machines01:03
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jidarlorddaedra: what is the end result look like for you?01:04
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jidardo you just want to run containers?01:04
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lorddaedrayes, I'm looking for solutions, how it's possible to scale small startup to facebook-like sizes on owned servers (no clouds like Amazon, Google, Rackspace)01:06
lorddaedrawhich servers to buy and how to organise it01:06
Pavowell openstack is based off Amazon cloud so....01:06
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jidarnothing we can discuss in this channel even over the next several hours would allow you to understand what it takes to run 'facebook-like' sizes01:07
lorddaedraI mean, start from 3 small servers (with ability to use for 5000 requests/second) and be able to increase cloud, add nodes to XXXXX millions requests/second01:07
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jidarand to be fair, no boxed solution from any group - rdo, redhat, mirantis, suse is going to get you out of the box to 'facebook-like' sizes01:08
Pavoanything you can do on bare metal machines you can do in openstack, just requires a lot more configuration to be able to scale correctly01:09
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jidarnone of those guys provide architecture to get anywhere near that scale01:09
jidarI think mirantis caps out at 200-ish nodes (for their design)01:09
lorddaedraI use 1 server which can allow me 2000 requests/second, I would like to increase this limit and I would like to add ability for 'no downtime' (during upgrading OS on my server)01:09
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lorddaedraand I'm looking for easy ways to add 2-3 more servers, share storage between them, add load balancing01:11
iniazilorddaedra: ok in that exampe those cloud software won't really buy you anything to scale.  you have to figure out hwo you can scale, and then see if these 'cloud' solutions will help you do it.01:11
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jidaryou're basically asking the question like, "how I get to moon" with something tacked on like, "do I rocket plus jet or just rocket?"01:11
lorddaedra:-)01:12
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lorddaedraI have some knowledge how to create software (I'm Python developer) and how to use it (I'm Gentoo user), so... I try to research, how to start creating small cloud01:14
Pavowell thats good then because openstack uses python01:14
iniazihehe.01:15
Pavoif I'm not mistaken its completely build in python01:15
Sam-I-Amyou should follow the install guide to figure out how it all works, decide what services you need, make them redunant/secure, then automate the deployment process so you can scale01:15
Pavo^01:15
Pavo=100001:15
Pavooops01:15
Pavo+100001:15
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lorddaedraI would like to compare Openstack with alternatives: if I will buy http://www.supermicro.nl/products/MicroBlade/ with 3 nodes, will it have any Openstack alternative?..01:17
lorddaedraor even on this server Openstack is the best software for creating cloud?01:17
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iniazilorddaedra: btw, if you want to scale your site, those cloud solutions went ACTUALLY help you with to answer that question.  You need to figure out how you can scale the site, and then whatever solution you architect, you can see if a virtualization platform will help you or not01:18
Pavothere are a few alternatives but they gonna cost you a ton, openstack is open source01:18
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iniaziwent=won't01:18
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Sam-I-Amopenstack - software is free, but you better have some brains in your organization to make it work, and fix it when it breaks01:19
Pavoyeah01:20
Pavotook me a few weeks of googling to get mine installed the way I wanted it01:20
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iniazii need to install it myself.  I have about 6 baremetals that I bought.  need to read up on the latest install guides01:21
lorddaedramy project consists of 3 parts: 1. Django/Python/uWSGI workers, 2. PostgreSQL database, 3. static files from users, 1. is easy to scale, just add more servers, 2. is hard so scale, because of master-slave replication, need to good server for PostgreSQL master 3. static files is easy to scale, may be need to use Ceph or similar01:21
iniazihopefully its gotten simpler... networking stack makes me worried (neutron or whatever is the latest)01:22
Sam-I-Amthats why there's the networking guide01:23
iniaziworried, not because docs are good, but i don't have solid understanding of routing etc.  if its just subnets, vlans, firewalls/load balancers, etc. I understand that.01:24
Sam-I-Amgood news... you dont need routing to make openstack work01:24
iniaziok.01:25
Sam-I-Amits just a requirement for true self-service cloud networking01:25
Sam-I-Amif your tenants dont make their own networks, you dont need routing01:25
jidarI'm interested to see IPv6 provisioning01:25
iniaziok cool.01:25
Sam-I-Amjidar: it mostly works01:26
Pavothis is what helped me getting it going01:26
Pavohttp://www.flashguides.co.uk/guide/Installing_OpenStack_Kilo_on_CentOS_with_Packstack01:26
jidarwhat protocol are they using to get an IPv6 subnet mapped or requested upstream?01:26
jidaror is it all stack now?01:26
jidars/stack/static01:26
iniaziyeah i ran into packstack the other day.  I hadn't heard of it.  is it new? or is it just redhat rebranding installer?01:26
jidarpackstack has been around for a few years01:26
jidarit's just the 'all in one installer' for rpm based, so CentOS and Redhat both use it01:27
Sam-I-Amits just another deployment tool, mostly not really production-quality imo01:27
jidarnot even close really01:27
jidarbut its fine for ~ <5 nodes01:27
iniaziok.  production quality... you mean the deployment has bugs, or the resulting stack would be not production quality01:27
jidardoes it even do HA yet?01:28
Pavoyeah01:28
jidarah ok, it's been a while01:28
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jidarso I'll say this, OSP6 using Foreman was awful - and the resulting deployment was awful too01:28
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jidarOSP7 seems much more stable and well thought out01:29
jidarlike that's 3 months I'll never get back01:29
Sam-I-Amheh01:29
Sam-I-Ami'd just use openstack-ansible01:30
Sam-I-Ameither way, any sort of large complex install need brain power to manage01:30
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jidardid you guys ever build a PXE boot / provision tool?01:30
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jidarI looked at Kalasi the other day01:30
Pavomirantis fuel uses a PXE boot solution01:30
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jidarPavo: yea, more curious about the ansible one though01:31
Pavoyeah haven't looked at that one yet01:31
jidarFuel/OSP are pretty close to feature parity01:31
jidarmy org has a few guys doing each01:31
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Sam-I-Amrolling hardware provisioning and openstack together = messy, imo01:33
Sam-I-Amplus most organizations already have a hw provisioning system01:33
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jidarmight have to disagree with you on that one01:34
Pavoouch ansible recommended layout contains a minimum of five hosts01:34
jidarwell not the messy part01:34
jidarrather not that it _can_ be messy01:34
jidarI'd argue the TripleO approach is pretty solid01:35
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PavoI have heard alot of good things about TripleO01:35
jidarironic has been pretty solid for me excluding a few known bugs01:35
Sam-I-AmPavo: you really dont want any fewer for production01:35
Pavohaven't seen it in action though01:35
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Sam-I-AmPavo: it can deploy an all-in-one01:35
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Sam-I-Ambut i see no reason for < 5 nodes in any prod environment01:35
jidarlike Foreman with whatever patch to make it do openstack was very poorly thought out01:35
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PavoSam-I-Am I agree01:35
jidarTripleO + ironic/tuskar/etc using all openstack services, glance for the image to boot etc, has been really wonderful to work with01:36
Sam-I-Ami thought tripleo kind of... fell off01:36
Sam-I-Amit was a thing for a while01:36
jidardunno, but OSP7 is using it and it's fairly solid imho01:36
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jidaruses IPMI to manage hosts01:37
Sam-I-Amwhen it breaks...01:37
Sam-I-Amthats gonna be fun01:37
jidarit's a simple db you nuke01:37
jidarand then a json file you import01:37
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sudohello03:28
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Guest64807where is database save in openstack dashboard03:28
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Guest64807:(03:29
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larsksWhich database?  Most openstack services are associated with a mysql database.  Horizon really only uses a database for session storage.03:39
larsksIndividual services have a database uri configured in their respective config file (e.g., /etc/nova/nova.conf for nova)03:40
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greghaynesSam-I-Am: TripleO most definitely still exists05:07
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Sam-I-Amgreghaynes: oh?05:12
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Sam-I-Amaight, bed time05:20
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snackpackIs it better to ask Qs in here or #openstack-101?07:01
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* X123 grins14:08
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horsehi all17:31
horseanyone using VIO vmware intregarted openstack in the wild?17:32
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Bofu2UIs there usually a preferred solution to provide storage for an openstack cluster on a storage server (aka a 36 bay server) that is open source? Or would it be best just to install cinder on there and let it roll? (I know it's a broad question, apologies.)19:14
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jidarBofu2U: lots of people like ceph23:42
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