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| pece | hi, do policy rules short-circuit on or/and clauses, and are they evaluated in the order as specified in policy file? | 08:10 |
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| nissmiz | sameone can tacke me how i can display the console with php opencloud | 10:03 |
| nissmiz | please ! | 10:03 |
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| Guest23663 | does somebody have a hint why my instances aren't able to take SSH keys from metadata-agent? everything except this works fine... | 13:16 |
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| emil1 | Hello ? =) | 13:24 |
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| emil1 | we need helper! | 13:31 |
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| emil1 | I despair... | 13:31 |
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| Guest23663 | hello, need help to debug some failures. somebody want to earn some honor? | 13:34 |
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| ybaumy | its juju 2 devel latest | 13:42 |
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| ybaumy | http://paste.ubuntu.com/22798947/ | 13:43 |
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| paresh_ | I am working on openstack. I am deleting the images using glance image-delete command, the images are getting delete at that time, but the same images are getting listed in nova list command after sometime | 13:53 |
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| cr0wrx | does anyone know if "Boot from image (create new volume) has any requirements on local ephemeral disk space prior to making the volume with cinder? I'm getting issues if I try to do this and my ephemeral storage is not large enough even though my cinder storage has plenty of space. I can spin up same size disk on new volume if I select a smaller flavor (in terms of flavor disk requirements) | 14:02 |
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| SamYaple | cr0wrx: it does! unfortunately. but this is dependant on your backend | 14:02 |
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| SamYaple | cr0wrx: with file backend for glance and nova (local storage) it will actually pull the image on the ocmpute and push it into the cinder volume | 14:03 |
| paresh_ | I am working on openstack. I am deleting the images using glance image-delete command, the images are getting delete at that time, but the same images are getting listed in nova list command after sometime | 14:03 |
| SamYaple | cr0wrx: so the compute host must have enough space for the image | 14:03 |
| paresh_ | ok | 14:03 |
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| cr0wrx | The image as in glance image, or image as in flavor disk size? | 14:03 |
| SamYaple | cr0wrx: using something liek ceph would allow for a CoW clone from glance->cinder directly without pulling to compute host | 14:03 |
| SamYaple | cr0wrx: thats a good question, i do not know if it converts to raw, though I would doubt it does | 14:04 |
| cr0wrx | I use ceph for everything EXCEPT ephemeral storage | 14:04 |
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| cr0wrx | the images themselves are small, like a few gb | 14:04 |
| SamYaple | cr0wrx: is it probably setup to clone from glance->cinder? | 14:04 |
| paresh_ | @cr0wrx glance image | 14:04 |
| paresh_ | dont have idea on cinder | 14:05 |
| cr0wrx | but if I try a larger flavor (160 gb for example) I hit issues because we have limited ephemeral disk space on compute nodes (SSDs, only used for things that we wanted to run fast and be local, ceph doesn't have locality) | 14:05 |
| SamYaple | cr0wrx: if you dont have the proper cephx perms and configuration in both glance and cinder then it will fallback to the old method | 14:05 |
| cr0wrx | well the ceph piece is certainly working. I can spin up large volumes and see objects / etc are added to ceph (ceph -s, etc) | 14:05 |
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| SamYaple | the ceph piece as a whole is not what I was asking about, what are the current perms on your glance, cinder, and nova keys? | 14:06 |
| SamYaple | well not nova, you just said you dont use that | 14:06 |
| cr0wrx | er, admin I guess. I'm an admin user | 14:06 |
| SamYaple | you should have setup seperate keys for glance and cinder | 14:07 |
| SamYaple | what are the cephx permissions on those? | 14:07 |
| SamYaple | hint: admin is not a permission | 14:07 |
| cr0wrx | ah, yea the services probably have their own, let me see. I deployed with fuel so black magic happened behind the scenes | 14:07 |
| SamYaple | what version of openstack? | 14:07 |
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| cr0wrx | liberty | 14:08 |
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| cr0wrx | perms look ok if 'ceph auth list' is what I'm looking for. I imagine fuel would have had them setup correctly. they have rwx on the appropriate pools for osd | 14:09 |
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| SamYaple | if its liberty its good | 14:12 |
| cr0wrx | ie client.volumes has rwx on volumes and rx on images, so it should be able to access glance data no issue | 14:12 |
| SamYaple | right | 14:12 |
| cr0wrx | that, and images do spin up nice and quick when using the ceph storage, so pretty sure cow works | 14:12 |
| SamYaple | so the flavor itself has two ephermal type volumes. one is the root boot volume and one is ephermal | 14:13 |
| SamYaple | are you sure _both_ are zero? | 14:13 |
| cr0wrx | if I spin up on ephemeral (which lives on compute hosts locally), it's slower | 14:13 |
| SamYaple | right thats to be expected | 14:13 |
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| cr0wrx | no, so the flavors have values for root disk | 14:14 |
| cr0wrx | maybe that's my issue? | 14:14 |
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| SamYaple | its possible thats used in the scheduler calculation | 14:14 |
| SamYaple | i know it wont actuallyl get allocated to the disk | 14:14 |
| cr0wrx | I want the flavors to be able to use local disk space when needed and the flavor size to control disk space, but then if you boot/create volume, then I want it all to be in ceph storage | 14:14 |
| cr0wrx | yea, the specific errors in logs are about scheduling I think, it says it cannot find a host | 14:15 |
| SamYaple | easy test is create a new flavor with zero for both | 14:15 |
| SamYaple | if it can launch then thats the issue | 14:15 |
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| cr0wrx | well I already did something similar. I created a flavor with a small disk size (20gb or something) and then spun up "create new volume" with large disk, and it worked | 14:16 |
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| SamYaple | im like 80% sure that the scheduler still runs it through the gauntlet even with boot from volume | 14:16 |
| SamYaple | so that soundsl ike the issue | 14:16 |
| SamYaple | two things you could do to still do what youre asking, change the allocation ratio in teh scheduler or disable the disk scheduler | 14:17 |
| SamYaple | both are less ideal than properly using the flavors | 14:17 |
| cr0wrx | what does allocation ratio do? | 14:17 |
| cr0wrx | I doubt I want to disable disk scheduler, because I actually do care that there is enough disk space and all on hosts when spinning up from flavors (not new volumes) | 14:18 |
| SamYaple | if you have 100gbs of REAL disk space, you can allocate 100gb x <allocation ratio> of space | 14:18 |
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| SamYaple | i agree | 14:18 |
| cr0wrx | hrm doubt I want to muck with allocation ratio either then. I'm sure I'll break something more :P | 14:18 |
| SamYaple | also agree | 14:18 |
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| SamYaple | the _proper_ workaround here would be too change the flavor | 14:19 |
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| SamYaple | but this does sound like you could file a bug for sure | 14:19 |
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| cr0wrx | Yea, I can modify the flavors to have smaller specified disk sizes I guess | 14:19 |
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| cr0wrx | and/or 0, but if set to 0 that means that we can't actually spin up a instance on local disk anymore without using ceph, correct? | 14:20 |
| SamYaple | that sounds correct yes | 14:20 |
| cr0wrx | and if I set it smaller, that may postpone the issue, but if we are almost full on local disk then we will hit the issue again and cannot spin up on ceph even though there should be no issue...but at least it delays the issue until we have more used space | 14:21 |
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| SamYaple | that does sound like whats happening, yes | 14:22 |
| SamYaple | test test test | 14:22 |
| cr0wrx | I actually wonder if I should have used ceph for everything, including ephemeral, and then tried to create different er...volume types in ceph or whatever (some for SSD, some for spinning)...probably would be better if we could accept the fact that SSDs wouldn't be local to compute host | 14:22 |
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| SamYaple | i know i do | 14:22 |
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| SamYaple | with writeback enabled its fantastically fast | 14:22 |
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| SamYaple | I can hit 5k iops in a single vm (~60k across all vms) | 14:22 |
| SamYaple | throughput can saturate 10gb | 14:22 |
| cr0wrx | yea, we have 10gb on this cluster but it's shared between a few things (storage/public at least I think) | 14:23 |
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| SamYaple | yea i use it (split with vlans) for all of my traffic too | 14:24 |
| SamYaple | should we need to expand we can peel off vlans as needed | 14:24 |
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| cr0wrx | same setup. We would have broken it up more but we ran out of sfp modules for our NICs / switch during install :/ | 14:24 |
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| cr0wrx | Do you know how much effort it would be to switch ephemeral at this point to also use ceph? We deployed with fuel so some of that setup was black magic to me, but I imagine it's probably just modifying one of the config files and maybe running a couple ceph commands to create any needed pools | 14:26 |
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| cr0wrx | and of course making sure it stays that way as cluster expands, because I don't think fuel 8 allows you to change that after deploy | 14:27 |
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| georgem1 | cr0wrx: http://www.stratoscale.com/blog/storage/integrating-ceph-storage-openstack-step-step-guide/ | 14:29 |
| SamYaple | cr0wrx: its going to be a full redeploy of all your instances I believe | 14:30 |
| SamYaple | cr0wrx: snapshot then boot, snapshot then boot, repeat | 14:30 |
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| SamYaple | cr0wrx: you can setup a few computes as ceph computes and disable the ones currently running instances then snapshot and boot which will launch them on ceph storage | 14:31 |
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| cr0wrx | all of the instances running local you mean. That isn't terrible, they are only a handful at this point | 14:32 |
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| cr0wrx | thanks for that guide reference, it seems decent. I think we just need to go through ceph -> nova section | 14:33 |
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| cr0wrx | I imagine I can do that and things will switch over seamlessly for future instances but existing instances will....idk, keep working (at least until a reboot needed?) until we snapshot and boot each? | 14:34 |
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| SamYaple | cr0wrx: you would have to take the local storage computes out of the scheduling pool (or build availablity-zones) to prevent new instances from getting local storage | 14:35 |
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| SamYaple | but other than that what you said was correct | 14:35 |
| cr0wrx | actually the tricky part is I would like to take those ephemeral SSDs and make them part of ceph, I probably can't do it all seamlessly while those are serving ephemeral using non-ceph ways | 14:35 |
| SamYaple | you cannot | 14:36 |
| SamYaple | but once you do you can set read priority! | 14:36 |
| cr0wrx | ok so first steps then are to get new SSDs purchased and added to ceph :D | 14:36 |
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| cr0wrx | that's the no fun part :( That's the part that costs money | 14:37 |
| SamYaple | well first step should be writing out a plan detailing both sides, next should be testing | 14:37 |
| SamYaple | i wouldnt jump immediately to purchasing personally | 14:37 |
| cr0wrx | well testing requires SSDs :/ | 14:38 |
| cr0wrx | but yes, maybe not as many | 14:38 |
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| cr0wrx | ok here is something I've been wondering as well - are you involved on the hardware side as well? ie would you know how important it is to use enterprise grade drives vs non-enterprise in ceph if you have replication and allow for some failures? | 14:39 |
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| SamYaple | i do it all (small company). we have ~1.5PB raw storage in the main ceph cluster | 14:40 |
| SamYaple | i started with enterprise grade drives, then switched to consumer | 14:40 |
| cr0wrx | have you had issues with consumer or recommend it? | 14:40 |
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| SamYaple | i would say it depends on your size for whn you can make that switch | 14:41 |
| cr0wrx | We are similar, small group running it all for our research team | 14:41 |
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| cr0wrx | we have enterprise today which we got when purchasing servers through vendor, but they are so much more expensive | 14:41 |
| SamYaple | if you cluster is <75osd i wouldnt recommend it personally | 14:41 |
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| SamYaple | if money is _really_ tight you could certinaly switch to consumer, but the fialure rate is higher, than that increases load, decreases throughput, and involves more man hours | 14:41 |
| cr0wrx | we could get a lot more storage if going commercial, which would allow us either more space, more physical servers to spread data across for HA, etc. | 14:42 |
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| cr0wrx | enterprise SSDs are significantly more expensive | 14:42 |
| SamYaple | indeed they are, but if they are your journals then losing one means losing many osds | 14:43 |
| cr0wrx | for spinning I think we can get enterprise a bit cheaper from third party (not vendor of servers) | 14:43 |
| cr0wrx | I want SSDs for some osds | 14:43 |
| SamYaple | if a single point makes you lost >10% of your cluster, personally that means i would go enterprise grade stuff | 14:43 |
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| cr0wrx | sure | 14:43 |
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| cr0wrx | well, that brings up yet another question I was wondering (I'm pretty new to ceph and most of openstack) - we have a second cluster that is 100% SSDs - is there any sense in having a journal in that case? I didn't use one, because all disks are same speed and it just means if one disk fails then it brings many more down with it | 14:45 |
| cr0wrx | my understanding is if journal is 0 then it just falls back to the regular disks | 14:46 |
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| cr0wrx | or same question if not 100% SSDs, but I guess if all disks are same speed | 14:46 |
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| SamYaple | you have to have a journal | 14:48 |
| SamYaple | it isnt a question | 14:48 |
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| SamYaple | journals are required to ensure that the proper files were written in the proper way to the disk | 14:48 |
| cr0wrx | well, I mean, the cluster works without one | 14:49 |
| SamYaple | no it doesnt | 14:49 |
| cr0wrx | works well, idk, it's new enough | 14:49 |
| SamYaple | the journal just moves to a file in the osd | 14:49 |
| cr0wrx | but it's running | 14:49 |
| SamYaple | you are doing 4x writes now rather than 3x writes | 14:49 |
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| cr0wrx | how does it differ in writes? It's just writing to file in OSD rather than a separate disk? either way it's a write? | 14:50 |
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| SamYaple | when you write to a journalling filesystem it writes twice | 14:50 |
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| SamYaple | once to the journal, once to the disk | 14:50 |
| SamYaple | thats why they are so resilant to outages | 14:51 |
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| SamYaple | with ceph, it writes to the ceph journal, then to the filesystem (which also has a journal, which is different). thats 3x writes | 14:51 |
| SamYaple | if the ceph journal is a file in the filesystem that also has to be in the filesytem journal, there for 4x writes | 14:51 |
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| Sketch | most filesystem journals only journal metadata, not data. | 14:52 |
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| cr0wrx | I guess I better add ceph journals then before cluster gets bigger | 14:53 |
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| SamYaple | Sketch: that is true, 4x isnt actually acurate. but in ceph journal it is actually the data too | 14:53 |
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| cr0wrx | I initially didn't because it's all SSDs so write speed should be the same, and we have limited number of OSDs and I didn't want to create a single point of failure. I thought about partitioning physical disks to have each disk provide a small journal partition and the rest OSD, but didn't...not sure if that would be better but maybe? Although I read it's recommended to use dedicated journal disks / osds | 14:55 |
| SamYaple | cr0wrx: you dont have to add seperate journals, seeperate partitions on the same disk is still more performant | 14:55 |
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| cr0wrx | yea that was the other option, that I didn't choose at deploy :/ | 14:56 |
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| cr0wrx | one journal per OSD (just using partitions on physical disks), which is probably more journals than needed, but at least reduces how many OSDs are lost if journal fails | 14:57 |
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| SamYaple | so thats not quite how journals work | 14:57 |
| SamYaple | each osd has to have its own journal | 14:58 |
| SamYaple | period | 14:58 |
| SamYaple | you can have a journal device with several _partitions_ as seperate journasl for osd | 14:58 |
| SamYaple | the perfered method is to colocate teh journal on the osd drive if perforamcne allows it | 14:58 |
| SamYaple | that way the osd can be hotswapped to another ceph node and be plugged in and just come online (crush map changes and all) | 14:59 |
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| cr0wrx | huh? I thought ceph journals typically handle multiple OSDs | 15:00 |
| SamYaple | nope | 15:01 |
| SamYaple | what you call a journal device may have several partitions, each of those partitions is a ceph journal | 15:01 |
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| SamYaple | a single partition cannot be a journa lfor multiple osds | 15:01 |
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| SamYaple | an osd requires a journal, and each journal is for a singluar osd | 15:02 |
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| cr0wrx | so when I configure journals, I need to create a partition for each OSD on the SSD? And if I go add a new osd, I need to go add a new partition to an existing physical journal disk (SSD) ? | 15:09 |
| cr0wrx | that kind of seems like a pain actually :D | 15:09 |
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| cr0wrx | and, I'm not sure fuel even supports that model.....With fuel, you configure your journal disk up front | 15:09 |
| cr0wrx | but if I go add a new OSD, then I manually need to go back and modify that journal disk | 15:10 |
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| cr0wrx | Although I guess if I add a new OSD I'm probably doing that manually as well unless it's a new storage node | 15:10 |
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| SamYaple | cr0wrx: im not sure how fuel works with managing ceph, but it would be horrible design if it split all the space on the disk rather than just 10-20GB partitions | 15:12 |
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| SamYaple | but you are correct, if you want to configure seperate journals, you must create a partition on the journal disk and then create the osd | 15:12 |
| SamYaple | there are also ways to change the journal after creation if needed | 15:12 |
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| SamYaple | again though, im suggesting collocating the journal onto the disk as a paritition _on_ the osd itself | 15:15 |
| cr0wrx | with fuel you just say deploy a storage node, and then it lists physical disks and you pick sizes of partitions for osd and journals basically (and base OS)...but once you deploy that physical node you cannot change disk configuration through fuel, so if you deploy 3 OSDs on separate physical disks and 1 journal disk (I guess with 3 journal partitions), if you want to add a new disk, you have to manually go add and create the OSD | 15:15 |
| cr0wrx | I assume and a new partition on the journal disk (assuming you left unallocated space on that disk) | 15:15 |
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| SamYaple | are you telling me fuel doesnt have a way to expand the ceph cluster.... | 15:15 |
| cr0wrx | sure, but isn't it also recommended that journals should be fast and ideally on SSDs for performance reasons? Hence if your osds aren't ssd, that seems to go against recommendations | 15:15 |
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| cr0wrx | I don't think fuel lets you expand the ceph cluster using an existing physical storage node/server. You can add more physical servers no issue | 15:16 |
| cr0wrx | but each physical server is essentially static without manually changing stuff later | 15:16 |
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| SamYaple | alright well im confused now since we were talking about ssd osds before. I can tell you exactly the ideal configuration for your equipment if you detail your equipment and what you want to do | 15:16 |
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| cr0wrx | well yea, we have two clusters | 15:17 |
| cr0wrx | one today is 100% ssds | 15:17 |
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| cr0wrx | the other uses spinning disks for everything ceph today, | 15:18 |
| cr0wrx | neither has journals configured so I guess they are filesystem and not ideal | 15:18 |
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| cr0wrx | eventually I imagine both clusters will have a mix of ssd and spinning in ceph, so osds will likely not all be ssd in either case long term | 15:18 |
| SamYaple | cr0wrx: i wouldnt be so sure, but you can easily check on all of that | 15:18 |
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| SamYaple | how are you planning on using two ceph clusters with openstack? | 15:19 |
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| cr0wrx | we have two openstack clusters, to be more specific | 15:19 |
| cr0wrx | not one openstack cluster with two ceph clusters | 15:19 |
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| SamYaple | ok thats fair | 15:21 |
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| cr0wrx | in either case, I guess I'm mostly curious on best design assuming mixed drives | 15:23 |
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| SamYaple | it depends cr0wrx | 15:23 |
| SamYaple | so you can configure the crush map to completely segrecate both of those | 15:23 |
| SamYaple | so you can have pools that exist only on ssd, and pools that exist only on hdd | 15:24 |
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| SamYaple | you can also put in ssds with a read priority so that if the object exists on the ssd it will attempt to read it from the ssd rather than an hdd | 15:24 |
| SamYaple | so a mix of hdd and ssd can really help perforamnce | 15:24 |
| cr0wrx | that's probably our preferred way. So the ssd only pool we would put journals on the same physical disks and hdd pools put journals on (other) ssd disks to support the hdd pool? | 15:24 |
| SamYaple | in very different ways even | 15:24 |
| SamYaple | yea that would work fine | 15:25 |
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| georgem1 | SamYaple: how do you set persistent priority for the OSDs? | 15:25 |
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| SamYaple | georgem1: moment ill link you | 15:25 |
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| georgem1 | thanks | 15:25 |
| SamYaple | georgem1: http://docs.ceph.com/docs/master/rados/operations/crush-map/#primary-affinity | 15:26 |
| cr0wrx | as with everything in openstack, it sounds like I still got a ways to go with learning ceph :) seems to have a lot of options and different configurations | 15:26 |
| cr0wrx | I like the concept at least, even if I fail at implementation quite a bit :D | 15:27 |
| SamYaple | ceph is almost as big a beast as openstack itself. it's its own thing | 15:27 |
| SamYaple | nah your implementation sounds fine, just needs a bit of tweaking to do what you want it sounds like | 15:27 |
| cr0wrx | yes I am learning that. I just learned about openstack / ceph / pretty much everything starting back in feb maybe. It's been a lot to learn | 15:27 |
| cr0wrx | I'm not traditionally an infrastructure guy but am having to become more that person....I'm used to using it as a developer, not making it :/ | 15:28 |
| SamYaple | youre doing quite well I think. oftc/#ceph is a really good channel for the ceph stuff (also the official channel) | 15:28 |
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| cr0wrx | times were nice when I could just use AWS for everything :D I'm sure it's just as complicated under the hood but that's left to other people to handle (for the price), haha | 15:29 |
| SamYaple | why move to openstack if I may ask? | 15:30 |
| cr0wrx | but openstack is turning out to be a nice alternative when public cloud isn't an option, just a lot more complicated since you gotta run the cloud in addition to using it | 15:30 |
| cr0wrx | public cloud isn't an option. compliance mostly | 15:30 |
| SamYaple | thats fair | 15:30 |
| cr0wrx | although memory intensive stuff is also pricey in AWS | 15:30 |
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| cr0wrx | aws I think is pretty cheap for storage / disk at least (S3 is dirt cheap and I don't think there is much to gain cost wise running locally if you want same replication after time / hardware / etc) | 15:31 |
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| cr0wrx | but ram, not cheap at all :) | 15:32 |
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| cr0wrx | oh, one other thing on the ssd journal thing - if you put them on the same ssd drives as osds, do you still also leave unallocated space on drives for wear leveling? | 15:35 |
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| SamYaple | that hasnt been a thing for most ssds in many years | 15:35 |
| SamYaple | thats all handled internally | 15:35 |
| cr0wrx | from what I've read it sounds like that could be an issue, especially if you have a smallish journal partition on that drive and write to it over and over again, seems like it'll be pretty uneven quickly | 15:35 |
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| cr0wrx | really? well that's good | 15:36 |
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| cr0wrx | glad to know I'm behind the times | 15:36 |
| cr0wrx | haha | 15:36 |
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| SamYaple | yea most/all? newer ssds have it setup with technology so that even if you are only ever writing to the first 10GB, its writing across _all_ the nand chips | 15:37 |
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| SamYaple | with, maybe, the exception of SLC ssds, since i think by the very build they have cant do that | 15:38 |
| SamYaple | but im not possitive on the SLC stuff | 15:38 |
| Sketch | i wouldn't think SLC/MLC would matter | 15:38 |
| cr0wrx | ok, so partitions and all of that don't matter? ie 10gb journal partition and the rest for osd. I guess it still evenly writes across all chips for both partitions | 15:38 |
| Sketch | my guess is it's just a matter of how the controller maps it onto the nand | 15:39 |
| SamYaple | Sketch: i forget how the technology works, ill default to what youre saying and just recommend more research | 15:39 |
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| SamYaple | cr0wrx: calculating the journal size is another exersize you must perform | 15:39 |
| Sketch | i haven't actually looked at SLC, so i don't really know either | 15:40 |
| SamYaple | cr0wrx: playing it safe, 20GB per osd. 10GB works for me | 15:40 |
| Sketch | just don't see why they would be any different in that respect | 15:40 |
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| SamYaple | MLC/TLC store multiple bits ontop of each other where SLC doesnt, I dont know if that affects it | 15:40 |
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| SamYaple | cr0wrx: osd journal size = {2 * (expected throughput * filestore max sync interval)} | 15:41 |
| SamYaple | http://docs.ceph.com/docs/master/rados/configuration/osd-config-ref/#journal-settings | 15:41 |
| cr0wrx | sure, journal size makes sense. I was just throwing out example for sake of the wear leveling question...if it wears evenly across all chips regardless of partitions or configuration on drive (so a small write heavy partition still wears across full physical drive, same as the osd partition would which may be less write heavy) | 15:42 |
| SamYaple | its not _perfect_ leveling, but its pretty good | 15:42 |
| cr0wrx | ok, that's good enough for me for now :) Just knowing that I shouldn't leave a big block of unallocated space on drives with journals is enough. I just use up all the space and magic happens | 15:43 |
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| cr0wrx | enterprise ssds too expensive to not allocate as much space as possible, haha | 15:43 |
| SamYaple | well for journals, making them larger doesnt increase performance | 15:44 |
| cr0wrx | the journal partitions | 15:44 |
| cr0wrx | but you can fit more journal partitions on a single drive | 15:44 |
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| SamYaple | correct | 15:44 |
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| cr0wrx | ie, you don't need to leave unallocated space for wear leveling | 15:44 |
| cr0wrx | so that's good | 15:44 |
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| emil999 | hello | 19:48 |
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| obcecado | hi | 21:21 |
| obcecado | imagine one wants to start a test environment to play with routing protocols | 21:22 |
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| obcecado | how would you setup isolated l2 segments? (ie: not attached to neutron) | 21:22 |
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| emil1 | On the compute node is the result of "ip netns list" empty. is this ok? | 21:27 |
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| emil1 | hellooo? | 21:38 |
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