Friday, 2014-02-21

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openstackgerritNikita Konovalov proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: Auth controller  https://review.openstack.org/6864208:34
openstackgerritNikita Konovalov proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: [WIP] Auth Token Middleware  https://review.openstack.org/7473508:44
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openstackgerritNikita Konovalov proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: [WIP] Auth Token Middleware  https://review.openstack.org/7473509:18
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openstackgerritNikita Konovalov proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: Migration to add the openid field  https://review.openstack.org/7538111:31
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openstackgerritNikita Konovalov proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: Auth controller  https://review.openstack.org/6864212:39
openstackgerritNikita Konovalov proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: [WIP] Auth Token Middleware  https://review.openstack.org/7473512:50
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openstackgerritNikita Konovalov proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: Auth controller  https://review.openstack.org/6864214:19
openstackgerritNikita Konovalov proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: Migration to add the openid field  https://review.openstack.org/7538114:21
openstackgerritNikita Konovalov proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: Auth controller  https://review.openstack.org/6864214:21
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ttxmordred: are you alive ?15:47
* ttx doesn't want to hold to patches for a second +2 for too long15:47
* ttx shall approve https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74004/ in a few, speak now or forever hold your peace15:52
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openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack-infra/storyboard: Use six.moves.urllib.parse instead of urlparse  https://review.openstack.org/7288716:24
openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack-infra/storyboard: Fix misspellings in storyboard  https://review.openstack.org/7205316:27
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ttxgothicmindfood: o/17:04
gothicmindfoodyo!17:04
gothicmindfoodlet's talk data model things!17:04
ttxgothicmindfood: so I wrote https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard/Task_Lists17:04
ttxgothicmindfood: did you have a chance to read it ?17:05
ttxI'll answer Nikita's new questions17:06
gothicmindfoodooh17:06
gothicmindfoodI'm reading now17:06
ttxrefresh, I answered Nikita's questions17:07
gothicmindfoodkk17:07
ttxgothicmindfood: I only have until :30 for this discussion17:08
gothicmindfoodok17:08
gothicmindfoodno problem17:08
gothicmindfoodso I want to clarify a user story in my head here:17:08
gothicmindfoodI'm a new-ish person to OpenStack17:08
ttxwhich one17:09
gothicmindfoodI know i want to go take a look at what bugs are important to Nova, let's say17:09
gothicmindfoodI would log in, and see a list of projects I could go to (or maybe a huge list of tasks or a list of stories?)17:10
gothicmindfoodanyhow17:10
gothicmindfoodbased on this, we're looking at filtering something for nova17:10
gothicmindfoodand potentially filtering something that differentiates between bugs/features ?17:10
gothicmindfoodand THEN we'd see the shared task-list for nova team for bugs, let's say.17:10
gothicmindfood?17:11
gothicmindfoodI'm just coming at this from a UX perspective17:11
ttxgothicmindfood: define "important to Nova"17:11
gothicmindfoodwell.17:11
ttxthings they sign up to deliver by a given date ?17:11
ttxregression bugs they should fix asap ?17:11
gothicmindfoodwell, so that's my question, really: I'm logging in and I have an agenda: I want to see important bugs to the nova team17:12
gothicmindfood(I'm assuming that that is a rather common angle to have for a person logging in)17:12
ttxgothicmindfood: I'm not sure anyone would do that. But you would probably go like this:17:13
gothicmindfoodHow do I get to the nova team's task board - and in this description, will it show me tasks related only to bugs, or to bugs and features?17:13
ttx- you somehow get to the Nova project page17:13
ttx- That page shows official tags and official tasklists17:13
ttx- If you click on "regression" tag, you see the stories that have been tagges as regression bugs17:13
ttx- If you click the "icehouse-3" tasklist, you see the list of stuff that the Nova team has signed up to deliver by that milestone17:14
gothicmindfoodah17:14
ttxdepending on what you mean by "important" you would access those different lists17:14
gothicmindfoodcool17:14
ttxgothicmindfood: I see your point... Thta's why we'd need official tags and official tasklists17:14
ttxto promote them on the project page17:15
ttxwhile not preventing regular people from building custom tasklists or applying rtandom tags17:15
gothicmindfoodright17:15
ttxbtwn tags could be used to say "approved" if our "official" tags can also be protected17:15
ttxso they could also be used for status. But that's a separate discussion17:16
ttxI have this picture in my mind where task lists + story tags actually end up covering all the needs17:16
gothicmindfoodso  my next question is about reporting for you17:16
ttxbut I may have missed something17:16
gothicmindfoodand if getting rid of task status affects you in any way, or of the tags will take care of that.17:17
ttxso.. we have two types of reporting17:17
ttxone is what teams promise to deliver17:17
ttxwe used that to set expectations and try to "predict" what will end up in release17:17
ttxfor that we'd use the official milestone task lists ("icehouse-3" for example)17:18
ttx(the "release/project task lists" in my wikipage)17:18
ttxthe second type of reporting is what ended up in the milestone/release after all17:19
ttxThis used to be the same view. But it doesn't have to be17:19
gothicmindfoodok17:20
ttxFor that I'd use a "first milestone where fix/feature appeared" field in tasks17:20
ttxas described in https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard/Task_Branch17:20
ttxthat way you don't have to add tasks you don't care about to the milestone goals17:20
ttxif they end up in the release we'll count them alright17:20
ttxbut you don't really care if they will or will not be there17:21
ttxso you don't but them in your task list17:21
ttxactually, task lists should only contain unfinished tasks, I think17:21
* ttx adds tat to wikipage17:21
gothicmindfoodyeah - or shoudl default to 'incomplete' tasks view, and you can incorporate 'complete' with an extra action if you choose?17:22
gothicmindfooddoes the fix/feature apply to tasks, though, or to the stories?17:22
gothicmindfood(I mean the first milestone where the STORY appeared, not really the task, right?)17:22
ttxgothicmindfood: no, that would be the first milestone where that specific task landed17:23
ttxbecause a feature may bridge multiple milestones unfortunately17:23
ttxwe could still have a field at story level that would say "first milestone the story was completed"17:23
ttxbut then what happens if someone adds a task17:24
ttxit's a rabbit hole17:24
ttxso I'd rather just count implemented tasks17:24
gothicmindfoodah, ok makes sense.17:24
gothicmindfoodsince we expect tasks to be discrete patches anyhow, right?17:24
ttxright17:24
gothicmindfoodmuch more trackable as a sinle unit17:25
ttxgothicmindfood: I'd still explore ways we can show "completed stories in a given milestone" though17:25
gothicmindfoodok17:25
ttxbut you can do that by looking at all the tasks I guess17:25
gothicmindfoodttx: I think it'd be awesome to graphically depict, over time, the amount of tasks completed17:25
gothicmindfoodand then also stories17:25
gothicmindfoodkind of like a burn-up chart17:25
gothicmindfoodinstead of a burn down17:25
gothicmindfoodon a per-release basis17:26
ttxgothicmindfood: did you read https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard/Task_Branch yet ?17:26
ttxIf we do updates at change-landing-time, it's easy to show what got done in a given milestone17:26
gothicmindfoodjust reading it now :)17:26
ttxburndown unfortunately means you have a set number targeted at the beginning17:27
ttxour teams don't show the necessary discipline for that17:27
ttxbut a burn-up, sure17:27
gothicmindfoodyeah, that's why I thought burn up!17:28
gothicmindfoodalso, I'm perenially glass half full so burn up appeals to me more :)17:29
ttxgothicmindfood: Ok, we run out of time. I'd like you to attack my strawman and try to prove me we can't do it this way17:29
gothicmindfoodhaha17:30
ttxbefore I get attached to the beauty of its simplicity17:30
gothicmindfoodttx: but I was secretly hoping this would happen in Brussels17:30
gothicmindfood(this exact attack)17:30
gothicmindfoodI will try, though17:30
ttxbecause tbh, it's beautiful and simple.17:30
gothicmindfoodit IS17:30
gothicmindfoodand it fits the openstack way of doing things so much more17:30
ttxwe need flexible tools, not cumbersome process17:30
ttxtags and tasklists are tools17:30
ttxstatus is process17:31
ttxpriority is process17:31
gothicmindfoodand this gives us a more flexible and open set of data17:31
ttxbut then we need to check that we can actually implementthe needed  workflows with those tools17:31
ttxor if we need some process.17:31
gothicmindfoodinstead of forcing us into a model that doesn't apply for half of what we do17:31
gothicmindfoodok17:32
gothicmindfoodgive me some time to chew on it17:32
gothicmindfoodI'll write questions/poke holes on the wiki17:32
ttxI like that every project can use the workflow that suits him best. As long as it aligns to providing release management-needed task lists17:32
gothicmindfoodthanks for taking the time!17:32
ttxi'll try to attack my own strawman too.17:32
ttxlike "if it was really that easy, why duidn't you find that solution earlier"17:33
gothicmindfoodor why didn't everyone do it this way? :)17:33
gothicmindfoodI think my only concerns lie around the UX for someone logging in17:34
ttxgothicmindfood: I think I have the answer to that17:34
gothicmindfoodbut I would like to get a sense of the different things that people are trying to accomplish when they log in from you guys17:34
gothicmindfoodsince you know that better than me17:34
ttxgothicmindfood: I think that's because all the others are bug trackers. Their main focus is to get user input and push that to some sort of process17:34
ttxWe do a task tracker. A tool to keep track of what we do and what we should be doing17:34
gothicmindfoodyup17:35
ttxtracking random bugs submitted by users in it is an oddity17:35
ttxbut I think it can still work17:35
ttxmaybe17:35
gothicmindfoodso we'd have to do the UX for that bug-submitted-by-user-who-doesn't-know-OS-that-well case.17:36
gothicmindfoodjust to make sure it could fit in with this, conceptually17:36
gothicmindfoodand make sure that it doesn't get lost, but also doesn't make too much noise in the already-prioritized-list17:36
ttxgothicmindfood: I think we can fit it in using some "untriaged" tag that would get autoapplied17:37
ttxor maybe search for bugs without a tag17:37
gothicmindfoodor have a view for OS as a whole, and per project, that's just 'untriaged' as well.17:37
ttxthen "triaging" would be applying tags and adding to relevant task lists if any17:38
gothicmindfood"what are we doing today?" "Looking at the scary untriaged view and trying to get that to be less"17:38
ttxwell, some projects use the "bubble up" appraoch to critical bugs17:38
ttxi.e. when an issue is scary enough someone pings you about it17:38
gothicmindfoodhow does that work?17:38
gothicmindfoodhaha17:38
gothicmindfoodthe "talk to us" method17:39
ttxand you put it in your task list THEN17:39
ttxmy strawman supports that workflow too!17:39
gothicmindfoodok17:39
ttxit's pure magic17:39
gothicmindfoodI'll run through some of that and try to put it down there so we can look it over later17:39
ttxbest thing since sliced french bread17:39
gothicmindfood:)17:39
ttxgothicmindfood: fast. im growing attached to it :)17:39
gothicmindfoodkk17:40
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openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack-infra/storyboard: Added REST API for tasks  https://review.openstack.org/7400418:21
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