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| openstackgerrit | Nikita Konovalov proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: Auth controller https://review.openstack.org/68642 | 08:34 |
|---|---|---|
| openstackgerrit | Nikita Konovalov proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: [WIP] Auth Token Middleware https://review.openstack.org/74735 | 08:44 |
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| openstackgerrit | Nikita Konovalov proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: [WIP] Auth Token Middleware https://review.openstack.org/74735 | 09:18 |
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| openstackgerrit | Nikita Konovalov proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: Migration to add the openid field https://review.openstack.org/75381 | 11:31 |
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| openstackgerrit | Nikita Konovalov proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: Auth controller https://review.openstack.org/68642 | 12:39 |
| openstackgerrit | Nikita Konovalov proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: [WIP] Auth Token Middleware https://review.openstack.org/74735 | 12:50 |
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| openstackgerrit | Nikita Konovalov proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: Auth controller https://review.openstack.org/68642 | 14:19 |
| openstackgerrit | Nikita Konovalov proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: Migration to add the openid field https://review.openstack.org/75381 | 14:21 |
| openstackgerrit | Nikita Konovalov proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: Auth controller https://review.openstack.org/68642 | 14:21 |
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| ttx | mordred: are you alive ? | 15:47 |
| * ttx doesn't want to hold to patches for a second +2 for too long | 15:47 | |
| * ttx shall approve https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74004/ in a few, speak now or forever hold your peace | 15:52 | |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/storyboard: Use six.moves.urllib.parse instead of urlparse https://review.openstack.org/72887 | 16:24 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/storyboard: Fix misspellings in storyboard https://review.openstack.org/72053 | 16:27 |
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| ttx | gothicmindfood: o/ | 17:04 |
| gothicmindfood | yo! | 17:04 |
| gothicmindfood | let's talk data model things! | 17:04 |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: so I wrote https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard/Task_Lists | 17:04 |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: did you have a chance to read it ? | 17:05 |
| ttx | I'll answer Nikita's new questions | 17:06 |
| gothicmindfood | ooh | 17:06 |
| gothicmindfood | I'm reading now | 17:06 |
| ttx | refresh, I answered Nikita's questions | 17:07 |
| gothicmindfood | kk | 17:07 |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: I only have until :30 for this discussion | 17:08 |
| gothicmindfood | ok | 17:08 |
| gothicmindfood | no problem | 17:08 |
| gothicmindfood | so I want to clarify a user story in my head here: | 17:08 |
| gothicmindfood | I'm a new-ish person to OpenStack | 17:08 |
| ttx | which one | 17:09 |
| gothicmindfood | I know i want to go take a look at what bugs are important to Nova, let's say | 17:09 |
| gothicmindfood | I would log in, and see a list of projects I could go to (or maybe a huge list of tasks or a list of stories?) | 17:10 |
| gothicmindfood | anyhow | 17:10 |
| gothicmindfood | based on this, we're looking at filtering something for nova | 17:10 |
| gothicmindfood | and potentially filtering something that differentiates between bugs/features ? | 17:10 |
| gothicmindfood | and THEN we'd see the shared task-list for nova team for bugs, let's say. | 17:10 |
| gothicmindfood | ? | 17:11 |
| gothicmindfood | I'm just coming at this from a UX perspective | 17:11 |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: define "important to Nova" | 17:11 |
| gothicmindfood | well. | 17:11 |
| ttx | things they sign up to deliver by a given date ? | 17:11 |
| ttx | regression bugs they should fix asap ? | 17:11 |
| gothicmindfood | well, so that's my question, really: I'm logging in and I have an agenda: I want to see important bugs to the nova team | 17:12 |
| gothicmindfood | (I'm assuming that that is a rather common angle to have for a person logging in) | 17:12 |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: I'm not sure anyone would do that. But you would probably go like this: | 17:13 |
| gothicmindfood | How do I get to the nova team's task board - and in this description, will it show me tasks related only to bugs, or to bugs and features? | 17:13 |
| ttx | - you somehow get to the Nova project page | 17:13 |
| ttx | - That page shows official tags and official tasklists | 17:13 |
| ttx | - If you click on "regression" tag, you see the stories that have been tagges as regression bugs | 17:13 |
| ttx | - If you click the "icehouse-3" tasklist, you see the list of stuff that the Nova team has signed up to deliver by that milestone | 17:14 |
| gothicmindfood | ah | 17:14 |
| ttx | depending on what you mean by "important" you would access those different lists | 17:14 |
| gothicmindfood | cool | 17:14 |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: I see your point... Thta's why we'd need official tags and official tasklists | 17:14 |
| ttx | to promote them on the project page | 17:15 |
| ttx | while not preventing regular people from building custom tasklists or applying rtandom tags | 17:15 |
| gothicmindfood | right | 17:15 |
| ttx | btwn tags could be used to say "approved" if our "official" tags can also be protected | 17:15 |
| ttx | so they could also be used for status. But that's a separate discussion | 17:16 |
| ttx | I have this picture in my mind where task lists + story tags actually end up covering all the needs | 17:16 |
| gothicmindfood | so my next question is about reporting for you | 17:16 |
| ttx | but I may have missed something | 17:16 |
| gothicmindfood | and if getting rid of task status affects you in any way, or of the tags will take care of that. | 17:17 |
| ttx | so.. we have two types of reporting | 17:17 |
| ttx | one is what teams promise to deliver | 17:17 |
| ttx | we used that to set expectations and try to "predict" what will end up in release | 17:17 |
| ttx | for that we'd use the official milestone task lists ("icehouse-3" for example) | 17:18 |
| ttx | (the "release/project task lists" in my wikipage) | 17:18 |
| ttx | the second type of reporting is what ended up in the milestone/release after all | 17:19 |
| ttx | This used to be the same view. But it doesn't have to be | 17:19 |
| gothicmindfood | ok | 17:20 |
| ttx | For that I'd use a "first milestone where fix/feature appeared" field in tasks | 17:20 |
| ttx | as described in https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard/Task_Branch | 17:20 |
| ttx | that way you don't have to add tasks you don't care about to the milestone goals | 17:20 |
| ttx | if they end up in the release we'll count them alright | 17:20 |
| ttx | but you don't really care if they will or will not be there | 17:21 |
| ttx | so you don't but them in your task list | 17:21 |
| ttx | actually, task lists should only contain unfinished tasks, I think | 17:21 |
| * ttx adds tat to wikipage | 17:21 | |
| gothicmindfood | yeah - or shoudl default to 'incomplete' tasks view, and you can incorporate 'complete' with an extra action if you choose? | 17:22 |
| gothicmindfood | does the fix/feature apply to tasks, though, or to the stories? | 17:22 |
| gothicmindfood | (I mean the first milestone where the STORY appeared, not really the task, right?) | 17:22 |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: no, that would be the first milestone where that specific task landed | 17:23 |
| ttx | because a feature may bridge multiple milestones unfortunately | 17:23 |
| ttx | we could still have a field at story level that would say "first milestone the story was completed" | 17:23 |
| ttx | but then what happens if someone adds a task | 17:24 |
| ttx | it's a rabbit hole | 17:24 |
| ttx | so I'd rather just count implemented tasks | 17:24 |
| gothicmindfood | ah, ok makes sense. | 17:24 |
| gothicmindfood | since we expect tasks to be discrete patches anyhow, right? | 17:24 |
| ttx | right | 17:24 |
| gothicmindfood | much more trackable as a sinle unit | 17:25 |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: I'd still explore ways we can show "completed stories in a given milestone" though | 17:25 |
| gothicmindfood | ok | 17:25 |
| ttx | but you can do that by looking at all the tasks I guess | 17:25 |
| gothicmindfood | ttx: I think it'd be awesome to graphically depict, over time, the amount of tasks completed | 17:25 |
| gothicmindfood | and then also stories | 17:25 |
| gothicmindfood | kind of like a burn-up chart | 17:25 |
| gothicmindfood | instead of a burn down | 17:25 |
| gothicmindfood | on a per-release basis | 17:26 |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: did you read https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard/Task_Branch yet ? | 17:26 |
| ttx | If we do updates at change-landing-time, it's easy to show what got done in a given milestone | 17:26 |
| gothicmindfood | just reading it now :) | 17:26 |
| ttx | burndown unfortunately means you have a set number targeted at the beginning | 17:27 |
| ttx | our teams don't show the necessary discipline for that | 17:27 |
| ttx | but a burn-up, sure | 17:27 |
| gothicmindfood | yeah, that's why I thought burn up! | 17:28 |
| gothicmindfood | also, I'm perenially glass half full so burn up appeals to me more :) | 17:29 |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: Ok, we run out of time. I'd like you to attack my strawman and try to prove me we can't do it this way | 17:29 |
| gothicmindfood | haha | 17:30 |
| ttx | before I get attached to the beauty of its simplicity | 17:30 |
| gothicmindfood | ttx: but I was secretly hoping this would happen in Brussels | 17:30 |
| gothicmindfood | (this exact attack) | 17:30 |
| gothicmindfood | I will try, though | 17:30 |
| ttx | because tbh, it's beautiful and simple. | 17:30 |
| gothicmindfood | it IS | 17:30 |
| gothicmindfood | and it fits the openstack way of doing things so much more | 17:30 |
| ttx | we need flexible tools, not cumbersome process | 17:30 |
| ttx | tags and tasklists are tools | 17:30 |
| ttx | status is process | 17:31 |
| ttx | priority is process | 17:31 |
| gothicmindfood | and this gives us a more flexible and open set of data | 17:31 |
| ttx | but then we need to check that we can actually implementthe needed workflows with those tools | 17:31 |
| ttx | or if we need some process. | 17:31 |
| gothicmindfood | instead of forcing us into a model that doesn't apply for half of what we do | 17:31 |
| gothicmindfood | ok | 17:32 |
| gothicmindfood | give me some time to chew on it | 17:32 |
| gothicmindfood | I'll write questions/poke holes on the wiki | 17:32 |
| ttx | I like that every project can use the workflow that suits him best. As long as it aligns to providing release management-needed task lists | 17:32 |
| gothicmindfood | thanks for taking the time! | 17:32 |
| ttx | i'll try to attack my own strawman too. | 17:32 |
| ttx | like "if it was really that easy, why duidn't you find that solution earlier" | 17:33 |
| gothicmindfood | or why didn't everyone do it this way? :) | 17:33 |
| gothicmindfood | I think my only concerns lie around the UX for someone logging in | 17:34 |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: I think I have the answer to that | 17:34 |
| gothicmindfood | but I would like to get a sense of the different things that people are trying to accomplish when they log in from you guys | 17:34 |
| gothicmindfood | since you know that better than me | 17:34 |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: I think that's because all the others are bug trackers. Their main focus is to get user input and push that to some sort of process | 17:34 |
| ttx | We do a task tracker. A tool to keep track of what we do and what we should be doing | 17:34 |
| gothicmindfood | yup | 17:35 |
| ttx | tracking random bugs submitted by users in it is an oddity | 17:35 |
| ttx | but I think it can still work | 17:35 |
| ttx | maybe | 17:35 |
| gothicmindfood | so we'd have to do the UX for that bug-submitted-by-user-who-doesn't-know-OS-that-well case. | 17:36 |
| gothicmindfood | just to make sure it could fit in with this, conceptually | 17:36 |
| gothicmindfood | and make sure that it doesn't get lost, but also doesn't make too much noise in the already-prioritized-list | 17:36 |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: I think we can fit it in using some "untriaged" tag that would get autoapplied | 17:37 |
| ttx | or maybe search for bugs without a tag | 17:37 |
| gothicmindfood | or have a view for OS as a whole, and per project, that's just 'untriaged' as well. | 17:37 |
| ttx | then "triaging" would be applying tags and adding to relevant task lists if any | 17:38 |
| gothicmindfood | "what are we doing today?" "Looking at the scary untriaged view and trying to get that to be less" | 17:38 |
| ttx | well, some projects use the "bubble up" appraoch to critical bugs | 17:38 |
| ttx | i.e. when an issue is scary enough someone pings you about it | 17:38 |
| gothicmindfood | how does that work? | 17:38 |
| gothicmindfood | haha | 17:38 |
| gothicmindfood | the "talk to us" method | 17:39 |
| ttx | and you put it in your task list THEN | 17:39 |
| ttx | my strawman supports that workflow too! | 17:39 |
| gothicmindfood | ok | 17:39 |
| ttx | it's pure magic | 17:39 |
| gothicmindfood | I'll run through some of that and try to put it down there so we can look it over later | 17:39 |
| ttx | best thing since sliced french bread | 17:39 |
| gothicmindfood | :) | 17:39 |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: fast. im growing attached to it :) | 17:39 |
| gothicmindfood | kk | 17:40 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/storyboard: Added REST API for tasks https://review.openstack.org/74004 | 18:21 |
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