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| SotK | So, who here would be interesting in restarting the StoryBoard weekly meeting? | 09:48 |
|---|---|---|
| Zara_ | o/ I'd like to check I'm on the right track. | 09:49 |
| SotK | In terms of times that are best for us, there seems to be space on the calendar from 16:00 UTC to 19:00 UTC on Tuesdays, 15:00 UTC to 17:00 UTC on Wednesdays and pretty much any time on Fridays | 09:54 |
| * SotK thinks he would prefer to do 15:00 -> 16:00 UTC on Wednesdays | 09:54 | |
| persia | I'd like to attend, and Wednesdays tend to work for me. | 09:58 |
| Zara_ | Wednesday works for me. | 10:12 |
| SotK | excellent | 10:18 |
| * SotK will submit a patch to the schedule later on, to give others time to register interest if they would prefer a different time | 10:18 | |
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| persia | So, about check-storyboard-js : is this just a broken test? If so, should it be removed from CI or should it be fixed? | 10:42 |
| SotK | I think its broken, given it failed on a change as simple as https://review.openstack.org/#/c/183304/ | 10:44 |
| SotK | I've not investigated whether/how to fix it | 10:45 |
| Zara_ | yeah, I looked a little at the merged commits (https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:merged+project:openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient,n,z ) and I think it's introduced in the 'initial proposal for integration tests' (unsurprisingly) but I haven't looked closely at it. | 10:47 |
| persia | Indeed. It seems it depends on ./storyboard/tools/install_testbackend.sh which is absent. | 10:47 |
| persia | err s/testback/test_back/ | 10:47 |
| SotK | I believe that changing that to ./openstack-infra/storyboard/tools/install_test_backend.sh here would fix it | 11:10 |
| SotK | https://review.openstack.org/gitweb?p=openstack-infra/project-config.git;a=blob;f=jenkins/jobs/storyboard.yaml;h=2934336d7315307c2fd37208517e5b0ba5ccf0ee;hb=HEAD#l39 | 11:10 |
| * SotK isn't sure how to test that idea though | 11:10 | |
| persia | Isn't it just a patch to git://git.openstack.org/openstack-infra/project-config ? | 11:20 |
| persia | But maybe ask in -infra: to get input from someone with more knowledge. | 11:20 |
| SotK | persia: I guess so, but how do I know the patch will work? | 11:20 |
| persia | Wouldn't that get tested by the project-config CI? | 11:21 |
| * persia actually doesn't know, but is just making assumptions | 11:21 | |
| * SotK will ask in -infra | 11:23 | |
| paulsherwood | SotK: having logged in, still can't find anything resembling a kanban | 11:24 |
| paulsherwood | SotK: i did find some misaligned checkboxes, though http://imgur.com/csI69cd | 11:25 |
| SotK | woo more misaligned checkboxes! | 11:25 |
| SotK | what browser are you using? | 11:25 |
| SotK | I see the kanban at http://86.139.159.21/#!/dashboard/kanban | 11:26 |
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| Zara_ | ah, kanban shows up for me | 11:37 |
| * pedroalvarez can see the kanban too | 11:37 | |
| Zara_ | the option was on the dashboard submenu for me | 11:37 |
| SotK | the only reason its in the dashboard submenu is because it started as me hacking up a concept for "set of worklists", which I then reused as a kanban and I never got round to moving it | 11:37 |
| SotK | I imagine it living in a more obvious place when properly implemented | 11:37 |
| Zara_ | :) It's nice and clear. Maybe we could differentiate via colours more, but there might be issues with branding or with differentiating kinds of tasks (it seems a bit odd to have 'active' and 'active (owned by me)' in different columns) | 11:37 |
| SotK | the columns are also only examples | 11:37 |
| SotK | I can't imagine anyone creating a kanban with the columns that one has :) | 11:37 |
| SotK | the lane titles reflect the story search parameters used to populate them | 11:37 |
| SotK | maybe it should be s/owned by/assigned to/ | 11:37 |
| Zara_ | gotcha. what kind of things would you like us to look at/discuss at this point? | 11:37 |
| SotK | Mostly thoughts/suggestions on the UI... It mainly exists because I wanted to think about the workflow for creating a kanban so I did it, plus persia had mentioned elsewhere about seeing a concept of what I was envisioning re: kanban in storyboard. | 11:37 |
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| * SotK can't see the misaligned checkboxes in Chromium or Iceweasel, but suspects he may have found the cause. | 11:42 | |
| Zara_ | okay, first thoughts-- I like the drag + drop, so I'll note that I think the boxes shouldn't exceed the height of the screen, or drag + drop will be awkward. so the boxes could have scrollbars, but the outer scrollbar should never be needed. I think the layout is straightforward and tidy. we might need some way of differentiating between items within a box, not sure how best to do that. | 11:44 |
| paulsherwood | SotK: ok, i see it now. so as a new/naive user, it's not obvious how to get to the kanban :) | 11:45 |
| paulsherwood | it looks pretty. some wasted whitespace at the right of the rightmost lane. i can't dragndrop, or add cards, or edit lanes - i assume that's expected in this mockup? clicking on a card takes me to the story... but no obvious link back to the kanban | 11:48 |
| * paulsherwood discovers he can drag to invalid | 11:48 | |
| SotK | dragndrop should work | 11:48 |
| paulsherwood | but state is not retained (on refresh, cards are back where they started) | 11:49 |
| paulsherwood | would be nice to signal to the user which lanes can be dragged to/from, and which not | 11:50 |
| Zara_ | I think some people might want more differentiation between the boxes themselves (colour coding is common) but there are complexities so I'd probably avoid that for now. I'm not sure what the little '+' in the top right of each box does; I'd guess it adds a card but wonder if it might mean 'edit lane title' or 'add lane', etc. but again, not clear how to make that more obvious in a way that preserves the clean look. | 11:50 |
| SotK | paulsherwood: all the lanes should be able to be dragged to/from in the mockup | 11:51 |
| paulsherwood | merged? | 11:51 |
| paulsherwood | irrespective of the mockup, in real life should someone be able to drag to merged? | 11:51 |
| paulsherwood | (and from it?) | 11:51 |
| * SotK drags things to "done" or "merged" in kanbans he uses quite often | 11:52 | |
| Zara_ | (the drag and drop should be more sensitive if possible, since it feels a bit... sticky? stiff? at the moment, you have to drag a card over the lane title; I think the whole box should be a sensitive surface, if that makes sense) | 11:53 |
| paulsherwood | ah, right. but i'm wondering if we are intending that this view allows folks to see stuff actually merged (in which case the merging was done by a tool, say) | 11:53 |
| paulsherwood | (merged to me means what's in the repo, not a state i a task that i can change by drag'n'drop) | 11:55 |
| paulsherwood | SotK: i like it, by the way :) | 11:56 |
| SotK | I think that the use of lanes in a kanban should be decided by the people responsible for it, so it makes sense then to allow lanes to be "locked". | 11:56 |
| paulsherwood | locked is a different concept, though. i wondering if we need some 'special' lanes... i think this was discussed previously somewhere? | 11:57 |
| paulsherwood | (ie lanes that reflect state from other infrastructure) | 11:57 |
| SotK | Zara_: I'd like to be able to colour code too, but the end goal is for "cards" to be either tasks or stories, and I'm not sure what the colours should represent without some deeper thinking on it than I've done so far | 11:57 |
| * SotK doesn't remember discussion of lanes reflecting state of things other than tasks and/or stories | 11:58 | |
| paulsherwood | i like colours, but others find them hard to understand... and a reasonable percentage of users may be colourblind | 11:58 |
| paulsherwood | SotK: ok, i may be wrong | 11:58 |
| Zara_ | (so to aid users; I'd keep the same max number of boxes, but space them out as much as possible so that it's easy to drag and drop but things go in the right boxes) | 11:59 |
| SotK | paulsherwood: I actually think it would be great to have a lane that shows state of changes in Gerrit or something, but I'm not sure how that would work without doing a bunch of work integrating StoryBoard with Gerrit properly first | 11:59 |
| paulsherwood | SotK: fair point. out-of-scope for now :) | 12:00 |
| SotK | Zara_: How do you find drag and drop between two lanes which actually contain cards? I think the problem with empty lanes being finnicky is because the droppable area is tiny. | 12:01 |
| Zara_ | SotK: agreed on colours; there's already lots of discussion of colours in specs, so that's why I think we should leave it alone for now. (I was referring to colour coding the lanes; it's just occurred to me that referring to the lanes as 'boxes' might be confusing) | 12:03 |
| Zara_ | Sotk: drag and drop between boxes containing cards is easier, but... | 12:03 |
| Zara_ | I think the cards may be too small vertically? not sure... but if clicking quickly, its kinda easy to drag the lane by mistake | 12:04 |
| Zara_ | alternatively, maybe only the top of the lane should be draggable? | 12:04 |
| SotK | I think only making the top draggable makes sense | 12:04 |
| * SotK tries to work out how to do that | 12:05 | |
| Zara_ | yeah, it might be okay to have the top, bottom and sides, just not the spaces between the cards. | 12:06 |
| Zara_ | (I was thinking that someone might not realise the boxes can be dragged if only the top is draggable, but am probably splitting hairs.) | 12:06 |
| Zara_ | also, dragging the first lane to be the new rightmost lane doesn't currently work | 12:09 |
| Zara_ | the others seem fine :) | 12:09 |
| SotK | apparently so... how bizarre | 12:10 |
| Zara_ | It did work for me once; have not been able to replicate! | 12:10 |
| Zara_ | ah, I think it works if you drag the first lane from the left hand side | 12:11 |
| Zara_ | dragging the first lane from the bottom right is interesting... | 12:12 |
| * SotK blames jquery for weird dragging behaviour | 12:13 | |
| Zara_ | ahhh, I think it's because the lanes rearrange relative to the cursor. (so if the cursor is over a lane, not if the box is) | 12:14 |
| paulsherwood | SotK: if i were a gambling man, i'd bet against jquery, and on something in the app :) | 12:14 |
| Zara_ | and it doesn't check the cursor's position horizontally relative to lanes' position horizontally, it just picks up on if the cursor is hovering over the lane. | 12:15 |
| Zara_ | that's my working theory. | 12:15 |
| SotK | paulsherwood: can I blame angular-ui's directive for the jquery at least? :) | 12:18 |
| paulsherwood | SotK: you can blame what you likee.. it's just i normally find that there's more bugs in new code than established code, hence betting on the app :) | 12:19 |
| * persia often finds the reverse: widely used frameworks often have bugs that everyone works around rather than fixing, perhaps because the widely-known bit makes sending patches scary | 12:21 | |
| paulsherwood | :) | 12:23 |
| Zara_ | btw, I noticed that on your 'stories' page there's '[{"type":"StoryStatus","value":"active","title":"Active"}] ' beneath the search bar; not sure if it's related to this or to some other changes | 12:23 |
| * SotK can't remember what he was trying to figure out when he made that show up to help him | 12:24 | |
| Zara_ | ah, okay, if it's debugging then that seems fine. :) | 12:25 |
| * SotK prepares a patch for openstack-infra/irc-meetings to add a StoryBoard meeting once again | 14:18 | |
| SotK | who should I list in the "chair" section? | 14:18 |
| * SotK assumes the done thing is for it to be the membership of storyboard-core? | 14:19 | |
| Zara_ | in the game of thrones, you win or you die | 14:20 |
| Zara_ | but I think you should probably be chair | 14:21 |
| Zara_ | since you've been organising it so far (unless you don't want to be chair) | 14:21 |
| SotK | I'm happy with that, but I won't be here next week so there should be someone else on the list too as a contingency I guess | 14:22 |
| Zara_ | happy to do it if necessary :) | 14:23 |
| Zara_ | if anyone else wants to, that is also fine with me. | 14:23 |
| * paulsherwood has chaired things in the past... but doesn't know if he qualifies even to attend a meetging like this | 14:24 | |
| SotK | paulsherwood: I would encourage anyone who is interested in storyboard to attend | 14:24 |
| paulsherwood | ok, is it irc only? | 14:24 |
| SotK | yeah, 15:00 UTC on Wednesdays was the agreed time I believe | 14:25 |
| Zara_ | on #openstack-meeting, right? (as opposed to #openstack-meeting-alt or #openstack-meeting-3) | 14:26 |
| paulsherwood | ok... si in 24 mins from now? | 14:26 |
| SotK | paulsherwood: normally, but I don't know that it can happen today given that it isn't on the schedule yet | 14:27 |
| SotK | Zara_: #openstack-meeting and #openstack-meeting-3 are both free at that time, I'll probably pick #openstack-meeting | 14:27 |
| paulsherwood | persia: any idea why meetings happen in a general meeting channel, rather than, say, here? | 14:28 |
| persia | paulsherwood: So that folk can idle in the meeting channel and get a log of all the meetings, mostly. | 14:28 |
| persia | It helps maintain cohesion between things as well: most interesting folk will be idling in the meeting channels, so one can easily highlight someone not usually part of a project to help cross-project coordination, etc. | 14:29 |
| persia | I use a lot of IRC channels, but for larger projects, I don't like when meetings happen in lots of subchannels, because then I have to spend a lot more time keeping track of ongoing things, whereas with this model, I have a continuous feed of everything happening in every subproject on my screen in realtime, so can jump into any meeting that seems interesting. | 14:30 |
| SotK | patch sent to add the meeting to the schedule | 14:46 |
| SotK | argh, that broken test is really broken | 16:09 |
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| * SotK tries to thing of an agenda starter-for-ten now that the meeting is organised again | 16:51 | |
| SotK | or even think | 16:51 |
| * SotK creates https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/StoryBoard | 16:58 | |
| paulsherwood | cool! | 17:09 |
| krotscheck | Huhn. | 18:55 |
| paulsherwood | ? | 18:57 |
| krotscheck | paulsherwood: Oh, just starting to realize that cutting storyboard loose was probably the best decision for the long term viability of the project. Had I not left, it's less likely y'all would have jumped in. | 19:03 |
| paulsherwood | it's early days for us, but we are really interested to build on your work | 19:05 |
| paulsherwood | please don't think of it as cutting loose just yet :-) | 19:05 |
| krotscheck | I have such dreams! | 19:06 |
| paulsherwood | of cutting loose? or of StoryBoard :) | 19:07 |
| krotscheck | For storyboard. | 19:07 |
| krotscheck | Like, I would _love_ to spin up StoryBoard as a service. | 19:07 |
| krotscheck | And, well, the federation bit is critical | 19:07 |
| paulsherwood | great... keep talking :-) | 19:07 |
| paulsherwood | explain why federation matters so much in your worldview please? | 19:08 |
| krotscheck | And the easiest thing to make that happen is for StoryBoard to start representing its internal links in terms of URI's. | 19:08 |
| krotscheck | Because it's an unmet need. | 19:08 |
| krotscheck | It's the "Ok, I want to have a bug tracker, internal to my corporation, that can also keep track of upstream activity without duplicating data" problem. | 19:08 |
| paulsherwood | what's an internal link? | 19:08 |
| krotscheck | Nobody does that. | 19:08 |
| krotscheck | Hey, I have a dependency on this bug in libvirt, which needs to land first. | 19:09 |
| paulsherwood | that's one of the key needs we have | 19:09 |
| krotscheck | And, I feel, the best way to do that is to express references as full URI's. | 19:09 |
| krotscheck | Example | 19:09 |
| krotscheck | A story is associated with a project. | 19:09 |
| krotscheck | Wait | 19:09 |
| krotscheck | sorry | 19:09 |
| paulsherwood | our work involves multiple upstreams. some of our work is private to us or to each customer, but needs to overlay on what's happening with upstream | 19:09 |
| krotscheck | it's been a while | 19:09 |
| krotscheck | Let's say a story has tasks. | 19:10 |
| krotscheck | And when I ask for the story, I ask for which tasks are in that story. | 19:10 |
| krotscheck | Well, you can either express that list as "Task ID 1, Task ID 2" | 19:10 |
| krotscheck | or you can express it as http://storyboard.openstack.org/tasks/1, https://github.com/username/project/issues/342,... " | 19:11 |
| krotscheck | Similarly, you can have an internal task on a story, that represents upstream work that has to happen. So instead of it's project link being "Internal Project ID #2", it can be "https://storyboard.openstack.org/projects/fooo | 19:12 |
| krotscheck | Or https://launchpad.org/projectname/bugs/23423 | 19:12 |
| paulsherwood | yup. we need to ensure that the uri doesn't itself leak information though... | 19:12 |
| paulsherwood | https://storyboard.openstack.org/projects/customer-name-accidentally-here-project | 19:12 |
| krotscheck | That should be easy, as long as you make sure that Storyboard never pushes to other systems. It only pulls. | 19:13 |
| paulsherwood | or really-interesting-project-name-that-should-have-been-hidden :) | 19:13 |
| krotscheck | And if osmeone tries to link a private storyboard story, it will fail because the upstream server can't actually access that API. | 19:14 |
| paulsherwood | i think we have use-cases that need to push. unless all our customers accept that their secret stuff is in the same instance with all our other customers' secret stuff | 19:14 |
| krotscheck | paulsherwood: Then create a story against the upstream project. | 19:15 |
| krotscheck | And, well, create more than one storyboard, for each customer, and only give them access to your teams' storyboard. | 19:16 |
| krotscheck | Though we can get into nitpicky details pretty quickly ehre. | 19:16 |
| paulsherwood | yup, that's the idea. but then we probably still need to sync the open/upstream stories with those customer instances | 19:16 |
| krotscheck | paulsherwood: Why? Just have storyboard not cache anything, and re-request the current state. | 19:17 |
| krotscheck | My original point is: Represent resource references as URI's. That will simplify the federation bit, because the reference will carry its origin with it. | 19:17 |
| paulsherwood | you may be right. i get out of my technical depth very quickly :) | 19:17 |
| krotscheck | Also, it's more RESTful. | 19:17 |
| paulsherwood | luckily there's backscroll and logs here... so we can ask others to properly consider what you're explaining | 19:18 |
| krotscheck | Which will get you donut points with the purists. | 19:18 |
| krotscheck | Oh god you're going to hold me accountable. | 19:18 |
| * krotscheck runs | 19:18 | |
| paulsherwood | but rest assured, i have dreams for storyboard too :-) | 19:18 |
| paulsherwood | nope... no accountability... please just contribute if/as you can | 19:18 |
| krotscheck | Aight | 19:18 |
| paulsherwood | hopefully we'll all feel the results are worth it... | 19:19 |
| krotscheck | Well, I'm working on OpenStack's policies re: javascript right now, so I may be flybying you guys on occasion with things like test coverage and documentation builds. | 19:19 |
| paulsherwood | cool | 19:19 |
| paulsherwood | my short term goal is to deprecate our homegrown kanban in favour of sb, can't wait! :) | 19:19 |
| * paulsherwood heads for dinner | 19:21 | |
| krotscheck | Random aside: OpenStack is starting to publish its own eslint rules to npm. https://www.npmjs.com/package/eslint-config-openstack | 20:22 |
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