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| openstackgerrit | Matthew Bodkin proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Tweak to the StoryBoard 'about' page Show where to file UX bugs with link Show where to file bugs in the API with link Make obvious what 'task tracking' includes Make clear that the user needs to login to be able to edit Grammar fix https://review.openstack.org/354570 | 08:08 |
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| Zara | oh yeah, admin user pagination | 10:22 |
| Zara | was the bug | 10:22 |
| Zara | I was going to look at... | 10:23 |
| matthewbodkin | Can anybody give me any idea as to how I should rephrase/change/add to this sentence in the 'Why?' section of the about page... | 11:05 |
| matthewbodkin | 'The OpenStack project has run into a number of limitations with existing tools; in particular, the workflow needed by a highly-distributed system that spans multiple projects is not well served. This system uses the best concepts from existing tools and goes beyond to support the needs of the OpenStack project.' | 11:05 |
| matthewbodkin | As Zara said, it's basically just a bunch of marketing rubbish at the moment :| | 11:06 |
| Zara | (see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/354570/1/src/app/pages/template/about.html.tpl@64 for context) | 11:08 |
| matthewbodkin | I know its a minefield but any help in the slightest would be much appreciated and it would help to get a more rounded view of what people think it should say | 11:08 |
| Zara | I've procrastinated from rephrasing that since it's not that straightforward, so I'm fine for deferring 'til later, otherwise I'll look after I've tried this admin users bugfix. | 11:09 |
| Zara | though, anyone else, feel free to dive in. (and thanks for asking over here! :D) | 11:10 |
| matthewbodkin | Its fine there's no rush, at least it's a simple fix of English grammar and not some coding mumbo jumbo | 11:10 |
| Zara | be warned that one day, 'bikeshed' will read primarily as a verb, and then you'll long to code. :P | 11:16 |
| persia | I suppose we have reached the point where we can no longer delay rewriting that. | 11:22 |
| Zara | the main problems with it are vagueness/very little content, complex sentence structure. so probably the best general approach is to list things we do better (cross-project support, could link to diagram; RESTy API...) and if it turns out we've already covered everything, maybe we don't need that and it's self-explanatory | 11:27 |
| Zara | s/,/ and/ | 11:27 |
| persia | Err, no. | 11:28 |
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| persia | The main issues with it are that it frames the creation in terms of negative impressions of another project (now, thankfully, unnamed), and asserts it is openstack-specific, when for most of the development period, it was either not used by OpenStack (the first year), or not developed by OpenStack (most of the second year), although it is happily both used by and developed by OpenStack now. | 11:30 |
| * persia has been procrastinating rewriting that text for a very long time, and will stop doing so. | 11:31 | |
| Zara | those are issues with it too; I don't think they're the biggest ones for most users, but we can disagree on that if you want. | 11:31 |
| persia | Heh, I think most users ignore that section entirely, and that there are lots of different viewpoints here :) | 11:32 |
| matthewbodkin | Also another thing, 'You can easily track backports of bugs to a specific branch'. This isn't true yet as the feature is only partially implemented. Would everybody suggest that I just delete this sentence as it is misleading? | 11:32 |
| Zara | persia: agreed. I think people who do see it read it once, when first browsing to it, then never again, so I don't want anything on there that makes storyboard look more complicated than it is and makes them think 'no thanks, I'll stick to $closed_source_task_tracker'. | 11:34 |
| persia | matthewbodkin: That feature is completely implemented in the API, just not exposed in the UI. I'm happy with removing that clause if you think it makes it clearer, but I'd also be happy if it worked. | 11:35 |
| persia | Zara: Yep. I shall strive for simplicity. | 11:35 |
| matthewbodkin | I agree with that, we want it to be simple, informative and possibly inviting | 11:35 |
| Zara | also, I'm not sure it's completely implemented in the API; I haven't tried creating a story against a branch other than master except through the ui accidentally, where I got an error that looked more like an api error (though could just be bitrot) | 11:36 |
| Zara | creating branches other than master and linking them to projects works | 11:37 |
| persia | As I look at this page again, I wonder if there should be a "Worklists & Boards" section, pointing at the (upcoming) worklists & boards page. | 11:37 |
| matthewbodkin | I'll let you two argue over that one haha just as long as I know whether everybody is agreed on removing, changing or keeping it | 11:38 |
| persia | But that can wait until the navigation is present, the complex prioritisation works, and other things. | 11:38 |
| matthewbodkin | Okay I'll leave that out for now and just stick with what we've got | 11:39 |
| Zara | persia: yeah. Ideally I want the whole page to display sans scroll (just arbitrarily as a way of identifying ETOOLONG), so we'll have to see what we can cut. but I think I could cut many sentences in half if pushed. | 11:40 |
| * persia is really happy 7d38a86af2f8e388d7d4e33fd2c9305757922c45 landed to make this less unpleasant | 11:41 | |
| Zara | tried searching that, not indexed in the googles | 11:43 |
| persia | Looking at it in context, rather than having the first-draft text glowing behind my eyes as I try to sleep, I wonder if the README link could be moved to Contributing (as README links to the developer manual), and the "But Why" section just replaced with some other feature outline. | 11:43 |
| persia | Zara: It changed a diatribe against LP into the current text. | 11:43 |
| Zara | ah, right | 11:43 |
| Zara | + I think sotk said that on the patch review | 11:43 |
| Zara | so you may want to head over there :D | 11:44 |
| persia | which patch? | 11:44 |
| Zara | I linked it for context earlier, hang on | 11:44 |
| persia | 354570? | 11:44 |
| Zara | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/354570/ | 11:44 |
| Zara | hah | 11:44 |
| Zara | gerrit took a while | 11:44 |
| Zara | yes | 11:44 |
| persia | I used IRC logs :p | 11:45 |
| Zara | hahahaha I already had the tab, just wanted to link to the review rather than the specific line and I decided it'd be quicker to browse and copy then to shorten the url manually | 11:46 |
| Zara | it was a catastrophic failure and it shall be recorded forever | 11:46 |
| * persia hugs eavesdrop | 11:46 | |
| Zara | but yeah, list of things we do better is my preferred approach (obviously not namecalling projects, though) | 11:47 |
| Zara | IT IS WINDY TODAY | 11:47 |
| Zara | and I still haven't done this pagination fix | 11:47 |
| persia | But, no, I don't see the thing I'm saying. | 11:47 |
| * Zara turns into a submarine | 11:48 | |
| persia | I see complaints about introducing more OpenStack-specific language, and about providing links to filing bugs against OpenStack in the section on stories. | 11:48 |
| persia | matthewbodkin: My recommendation is to not change the "But Why?" and "Contributing" sections. I'll put something together today (or this weekend, if that fails), so that I end up getting the flames with`git annotate` | 11:51 |
| Zara | oh, might be slightly different, he referred to moving something to 'contributing' | 11:51 |
| persia | Zara: Indeed: that was from the "Stories" section. | 11:51 |
| persia | And I think it falls under the "adding too much text that belongs in README", mostly. | 11:52 |
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| persia | Err, I didn't mean to scare him away :( | 11:55 |
| Zara | I think his freenode connection is patchy, probably just means he's gone to have lunch | 11:56 |
| bethwhite | Heh, it looks like he's gone for lunch, persia | 11:56 |
| bethwhite | Snap Zara | 11:56 |
| Zara | :) | 11:56 |
| persia | So, I think this is best done in two batches. | 11:57 |
| persia | 1) Replace "But Why?" with "Motivation" | 11:58 |
| persia | 2) Move "Motivation" to README, and repalce with something about Worklists | 11:58 |
| persia | Actually, no, that's just ugly and confuses history. | 12:04 |
| persia | I'll just stack the update above Change 279753, so that there is a sensible URL to use in the link. | 12:05 |
| openstackgerrit | Zara proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Search for boards and worklists https://review.openstack.org/341562 | 12:10 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Search for boards and worklists https://review.openstack.org/341562 | 12:37 |
| Zara | \o/ | 12:38 |
| persia | One step closer. | 12:43 |
| Zara | that sounds so ominous | 12:43 |
| persia | Does it help if I follow with "Storyboard will inevitably achieve a useful feature set"? | 12:44 |
| Zara | the 'inevitably' there still has an unnerving ring to it | 12:45 |
| persia | Hrm. Tricky. | 12:45 |
| persia | Somehow I think any sentence beginning "Emerging from the depths of millions of seconds of history ..." won't help. | 12:48 |
| * persia gives up | 12:48 | |
| Zara | yeah, I think you have some sort of lovecraftian filter enabled that's intercepting your output and replacing it with stuff that implies the involvement of a tentacled, malevolent mass | 12:50 |
| persia | "In response to the existential pain imposed by that project that may not be named, the educated from four continents banded together to forge a new tool." sort of thing? | 12:52 |
| Zara | now it's gone vaguely Lord of the Rings | 12:53 |
| SotK | +1 | 12:53 |
| SotK | its the forging a tool bit | 12:53 |
| SotK | three tools for elven kings under the sky, seven for the dwarf lords in their halls of stone, etc. etc. | 12:54 |
| persia | The issue is that I don't want to say "banded together to combat the eldritch horror", because I'm not convinced that is fair, given that there were some groundbreaking and useful features added in the tool-that-must-not-be-named. | 12:55 |
| matthewbodkin | When someone comments on your patch, there is an option to 'fix' the problem which then allows you to edit your work. Can anybody tell me if this actually works when you save it as it looks good on my end but I'm not sure about everybody else's i.e. can other people see that you've fixed it and review it again, and does it then work in the merge? Or would it be best to just make a new commit? Opinions please | 13:09 |
| SotK | I imagine there'll be a "Publish Edit" button on the change page (where the reply button is iirc) which should update it for everyone else too | 13:10 |
| * SotK tends to find editing locally and then submitting a new version of the change works best for anything other than a small fix though | 13:11 | |
| matthewbodkin | I've just seen it now... | 13:12 |
| matthewbodkin | How did I not notice that before?!? And thanks for the advice :) | 13:12 |
| SotK | gerrit's web ui is notoriously confusing at times :) | 13:13 |
| openstackgerrit | Matthew Bodkin proposed openstack-infra/storyboard: Fix to slight errors in docs https://review.openstack.org/353891 | 13:35 |
| Zara | :) | 13:35 |
| Zara | so, this is annoying. I can't check admin pagination works on my test instance as it only has 3 users, and pagination never works for js draft builds, so I can't use that either | 13:36 |
| Zara | as far as I know it's just a question of adding: | 13:36 |
| Zara | + on-next-page="nextPage()" | 13:36 |
| Zara | + on-previous-page="previousPage()" | 13:36 |
| Zara | for the result-set-pager on the admin user page | 13:36 |
| SotK | if it uses search-results somewhere that will be sufficient | 13:39 |
| Zara | yeah, I guess worst case it doesn't work and we're in the same position. idk why it wouldn't | 13:41 |
| Zara | i just don't trust it, haha | 13:41 |
| openstackgerrit | Adam Coldrick proposed openstack-infra/storyboard: Create timeline events for boards and worklists https://review.openstack.org/350146 | 13:41 |
| openstackgerrit | Adam Coldrick proposed openstack-infra/storyboard: Make it possible to get worklist/board timeline events via the API https://review.openstack.org/354729 | 13:41 |
| openstackgerrit | Adam Coldrick proposed openstack-infra/storyboard: Send notifications to subscribers for worklists https://review.openstack.org/354730 | 13:41 |
| Zara | eep | 13:42 |
| openstackgerrit | Zara proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Fix Pagination for Admin Users Page https://review.openstack.org/354736 | 13:44 |
| * SotK gets extremely nitpicky | 14:11 | |
| Zara | oh no | 14:12 |
| persia | SotK: "Boards and Worklists" != "Boards & Worklists" :p | 14:15 |
| persia | (meta-nit) | 14:15 |
| SotK | :) | 14:16 |
| Zara | ahahaha, sotk, I meant to change that! | 14:16 |
| Zara | since yeah the difference in order bothered me too | 14:16 |
| Zara | totally forgot | 14:16 |
| SotK | it was highly troubling for my eyes | 14:16 |
| Zara | lol, it was for mine, I've just seen it too many times. | 14:16 |
| Zara | thanks | 14:16 |
| Zara | also, hahahaha, I remember my plan was to swap the lists round because I thought 'worklists and boards' sounded nicer | 14:18 |
| persia | I also think it sounds nicer, but I'll switch the text in my editor to say "Boards and Worklists" if that is the direction we are taking. | 14:19 |
| SotK | I think 'worklists and boards' sounds nicer, I just want the order to be the same | 14:23 |
| Zara | (right, 'boards and worklists' sounds like a question; 'worklists and boards' is an answer, and pretty much nobody will care either way.=D) | 14:23 |
| Zara | hahaha | 14:23 |
| Zara | this is my favourite bikeshed | 14:23 |
| Zara | I'll switch the columns round in the interests of aesthetics | 14:23 |
| persia | "Worklists and Boards" it is then. | 14:25 |
| * persia counts this as cerulean | 14:25 | |
| Zara | I'm actually really happy that everyone was bothered by it, makes me feel less weird. xD | 14:26 |
| Zara | or a weirdo among weirdos, that also wfm | 14:26 |
| openstackgerrit | Zara proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: 'All Boards and Worklists' Page https://review.openstack.org/279753 | 14:46 |
| persia | Some of the nitpicks are still there... | 14:47 |
| Zara | the columns swapped position so they should be covered by that. I thought I got all the indents | 14:48 |
| persia | "All" | 14:48 |
| Zara | oh yeah, just remembered those | 14:49 |
| openstackgerrit | Zara proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: 'All Boards and Worklists' Page https://review.openstack.org/279753 | 14:50 |
| Zara | (I don't care either way about 'All' but I don't want to leave SotK in distress) | 14:51 |
| Zara | and I bet it'll bother him every time he sees it | 14:52 |
| pedroalvarez | can't wait to see that merged :) | 14:53 |
| persia | Do we care about the " and " vs. " & " thing I mentioned earlier? I don't much, but I agree it doesn't match. | 14:53 |
| Zara | I don't care; it's an ampersand in the sidebar because otherwise it spread over more lines | 14:54 |
| Zara | (ie: it goes: | 14:54 |
| Zara | worklists | 14:54 |
| Zara | and | 14:54 |
| Zara | boards | 14:54 |
| Zara | (instead of: | 14:54 |
| Zara | worklists | 14:54 |
| Zara | & boards | 14:54 |
| Zara | so that makes the whole sidebar longer for no great reason | 14:55 |
| persia | Oh, hmm. That's a good argument. | 14:55 |
| Zara | :) and then I'd rather not use ampersands anywhere we don't have to since I feel like it's a character that's ripe to being displayed weird or being hard to search for etc. | 14:55 |
| Zara | (speaking of which, I should check krotscheck's comment in that removed review :)) | 14:59 |
| persia | Zara: You've an administrative block on the "move search icon" item. | 15:00 |
| persia | Which makes me a little unsure about the mention of it in the commit message for "All Boards and Worklists". That commit message might also want to be "Worklists and Boards" :p | 15:00 |
| SotK | the "All" needs to go because sometimes it isn't all of them (if there is a filter) :) | 15:00 |
| persia | In the UI, yes (and it did). | 15:01 |
| persia | In the commit message, I'm less fussed. | 15:01 |
| persia | (but maybe you aren't?) | 15:01 |
| Zara | SotK: true, I was thinking of the time before search | 15:02 |
| * SotK isn't fussed about the commit message | 15:02 | |
| SotK | I was just explaining why it was causing me distress | 15:02 |
| Zara | persia: well, I'd still like a patch to remove that icon to be merged soon after, so it's still true, I just doubt it'll happen because of what would have to come first (nice header browse linking to search) :) | 15:02 |
| Zara | it lets people know the plan, which might be handy to have in the commit log | 15:03 |
| persia | Zara: I don't dispute the truth of the statement, just the value to the historian. | 15:03 |
| Zara | heh, well, I don't know either way, but I intend to leave it in there, since it's context I'd want, looking at logs; I don't know if anyone would look. :) | 15:04 |
| persia | I don't usually look at logs until many years later, and usually as a result of following a `git blame` trail. | 15:06 |
| persia | I have no idea how I would go from that hopeful statement to the relevant commit using the tools I know (mostly git and tig) to find out what it means without context. | 15:06 |
| persia | (for that matter, it took me 5 minutes to find the relevant commit in gerrit today, even with all the context and currency) | 15:07 |
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| * persia stumbles over wording | 16:52 | |
| Zara | hello again | 16:53 |
| persia | "StoryBoard was created to serve the needs of a highly-distributed system that spans multiple projects." doesn't feel right, but anything else ends up reusing almost no words. | 16:54 |
| Zara | maybe 'StoryBoard was created to enable cross-project work on a massive scale'? idk, I think the key with that will be to list the ways in which it serves the needs of that system, but I procrastinated from rewriting it because it wasn't obvious how to do it. :/ | 16:56 |
| Zara | I'm not sure that the distribution in itself makes any difference to storyboard (as far as I know that's just the thing that necessitates the creation of lots of projects), could be wrong | 16:57 |
| Zara | + there are a few ways of reading 'distributed' and I'm not sure which one that intended | 16:58 |
| persia | RIght then, I'll go with not preserving much of the wording. | 17:00 |
| persia | For me, "distributed" is mostly about the physical location of the developers. | 17:00 |
| persia | There's no equivalent of "go stick it on the wall" or similar. | 17:01 |
| Zara | ahh, hadn't thought of that; guess that's things like times in utc and integration with email (as there's no assumption of immediate communication) | 17:03 |
| Zara | I'm heading off now, 'night! I have a wall of events timeline things to look at next week... \o/ | 17:09 |
| Zara | will probably pop back around 20:00 utc to peek at gerrit things | 17:09 |
| openstackgerrit | Andreas Jaeger proposed openstack-infra/storyboard: Move other-requirements.txt to bindep.txt https://review.openstack.org/354865 | 17:31 |
| openstackgerrit | Andreas Jaeger proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Move other-requirements.txt to bindep.txt https://review.openstack.org/354866 | 17:31 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: 'All Boards and Worklists' Page https://review.openstack.org/279753 | 18:49 |
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