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| openstackgerrit | Matthew Bodkin proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Make side bar the same length as navbar https://review.openstack.org/355554 | 08:26 |
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| Zara | morrrning, storyboard! | 09:00 |
| matthewbodkin | Morning | 09:03 |
| Zara | thanks for the great storyboard-js meetup, everyone! it ended up being a more general web-development meetup and it was useful, even if our available tools made betherly cry. | 09:06 |
| Zara | I made a skeletal story for eslint things; could do with fleshing out with more specifics. https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000699 (I thought of unnamed functions at the meetup, but there's probably more convention-violating stuff in there) | 09:07 |
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| betherly | indeed thanks everyone! was a really great day and i think we made some good progress | 11:37 |
| * betherly is still crying about less | 11:38 | |
| betherly | :p | 11:38 |
| persia | If you really don't like it, you could convert everything to sass, but last time we discussed it, nobody wanted to do the work :) | 11:39 |
| Zara | hahaha | 11:39 |
| Zara | yeah, that's what we said, 'we won't stop you, betherly, but we're not doing it any time soon, submit a patch if you want' :P | 11:40 |
| Zara | everyone seemed happy with this arrangement xD | 11:40 |
| betherly | persia: indeed ;) im mostly teasing but ye, once the next ironic-ui release is out i may look into it and use the time to sort the mobile stuff | 11:41 |
| persia | I remember receiving that feedback :) I'm not sure "everyone ... happy" is accurate, but as long as us sass-lovers remain focused on other things ... | 11:41 |
| persia | betherly: Heh, if you have that much time :) | 11:41 |
| betherly | persia: not right now no :p but i love sass and seriously, doing css'y stuff would be super light relief for me. | 11:42 |
| persia | sass is all win. Pity it got classed as "Ruby-only" for a couple years whilst people tried to reinvent the wheel. | 11:47 |
| persia | But that's over now, so for the future, we have better DSLs. | 11:47 |
| Zara | yeah, it's a change I want, just not one that I'm going to prioritise because for us the gains don't outweigh the effort (since we only dabble in the css side anyway). for folks who like working with css and want to work with it more than occasionally, it should be worth it. | 11:50 |
| Zara | but it's not an approach I'm going to go 'NO!' to if someone else does it. | 11:51 |
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| Zara | reviewing timeline events patches is at least as boring as writing them. | 11:56 |
| openstackgerrit | Matthew Bodkin proposed openstack-infra/storyboard: Fixing docs so it is easy to understand https://review.openstack.org/355886 | 12:10 |
| SotK | Zara: there is a small change I need to send for that timeline patch still | 12:22 |
| SotK | only very minor though, just the event_info of permissions being created will change a little | 12:23 |
| Zara | oh, oops, thought you'd sent them all yesterday evening | 12:25 |
| Zara | oh well, I hadn't got very far, can wait a bit. | 12:25 |
| Zara | I got distracted looking at summit things | 12:25 |
| SotK | so did I, then I remembered more this morning | 12:34 |
| Zara | :) | 12:35 |
| openstackgerrit | Emmet Hikory proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Add Worklists and Boards to About Page https://review.openstack.org/355912 | 13:02 |
| persia | Heh. I haven't submitted a technical change since Havana (or maybe Grizzly), and so I'm a "new contributor" again :) | 13:06 |
| Zara | aw | 13:07 |
| persia | matthewbodkin: FYI, I've stomped all over 354570 : If you're confident, I can rebase over it. | 13:09 |
| persia | Zara: In "Motivation" I was trying to reuse the existing text as much as possible. I'm fine with your alternate text, if you mean it specifically, rather than as an example. | 14:15 |
| persia | Also, are you certain it isn't possible to organise existing worklists into a board? If so, that entire section needs a rewrite (and we should probably assert no intention to enable using existing worklists for boards) | 14:17 |
| persia | Also, I specifically don't want to declare who created storyboard or what specific needs are resolved, as I think both of those have changed significantly over time, and may again change, depending on who uses SB, who submits patches, etc. | 14:18 |
| persia | I'd be open to being convinced to have some "history" section, but I'd need a stong argument to be persuaded that we should include that sort of information in "Motivation". | 14:19 |
| Zara | okay, sure, I'm fine with incrementally rewriting it and just moving most of what's there to start with. I think it does need a rewrite to be more informative but I'm fine with doing it in a later patch. and I'm not completely certain it's impossible in the api, but it's not possible in the ui, and there are difficulties associated with it (I think with permissions?) that meant we were just going to leave | 14:22 |
| Zara | it alone | 14:22 |
| Zara | I can't remember exactly what they were, but I remember there was something complicated about it | 14:23 |
| Zara | I think it was to do with importing someone else's public list into a private board | 14:23 |
| Zara | which would make the list private | 14:23 |
| Zara | and cause fury | 14:23 |
| Zara | (or importing a public list into a private board, the list staying ublic, and cofusing users of the board | 14:23 |
| Zara | ugh irc froze | 14:23 |
| Zara | would you consider a general 'we' for who created it (just so we can have a sentence in the active voice), or does that imply an association you don't want | 14:24 |
| Zara | ? | 14:25 |
| persia | I completely agree that better content for "What is Storyboard, and what are the development priorities (high-level)" in README would be good. I don't think I will come up with that this week. Maybe someone else will. | 14:28 |
| persia | For Worklists in Boards, which way do you think it *should* work? (as in: does the current state represent a bug?) | 14:29 |
| persia | I'm a big fan of the passive role. I can switch to active if it is really important to you, but I'm not confident that the "We" represented by "StoryBoard Developers" today matches the "We" who conceived Storyboard, nor the "We" who did most of the initial development, which makes me reluctant. | 14:30 |
| Zara | I don't mind passive for a one-off sentence, but I prefer to avoid it for longer things because of the cumulative effect on the length of a document and the effort it takes to parse it (sometimes it can come across as shifty, but that one depends more on context). so if we want to expand that section, it'll matter more. | 14:38 |
| Zara | I'm not sure for worklists in boards. while I'd like to import them, I also don't see a good way around the intersection of permissions issue | 14:39 |
| persia | Heh, and here I was trained in school to write 2-3 page paragraphs in the passive voice. I think fashions in text have changed. | 14:39 |
| Zara | yeah, for the better! :P (originally I envisioned importing existing ones, but as a worklist can appear in multiple boards, I'm really not sure how that should work.) | 14:40 |
| persia | I'm inclined to agree with the permissions issue being a blocker. Unless you think otherwise, I'll try to rewrite so that Worklists and Boards are two separate concepts, with the lane==worklist bit being an implementation detail. | 14:40 |
| Zara | cool, thanks | 14:41 |
| Zara | (I agree it's a fashion. personally, I like it, though I'm less of a fan of the fashion that goes 'never use any word but "said"' so I'm hoping that one swings back a bit, if it hasn't already.) | 14:42 |
| matthewbodkin | So persia are you taking over this about page patch then? Seeing as though you're doing something completely different to what I was going to and your idea sounds a lot better. | 14:45 |
| matthewbodkin | Especially with the fact that you know what this project is about and where you want to take it | 14:45 |
| persia | matthewbodkin: I like your fixes for Stories and Projects, and think you should proceed. I only want to take over "But Why?", and have some minor changes to "Conributing" because I still want to link README. | 14:46 |
| persia | matthewbodkin: As I said, I can rebase over your change, if you think you're close to addressing all the feedback. | 14:46 |
| matthewbodkin | The only problem I had that was stopping me from sending what I thought would be the final patch was the 'But Why?' section. So if I just leave that how it was and send in the fix for all of the other little issues would that be sufficient? | 14:50 |
| persia | matthewbodkin: That works perfectly for me, if it works for you. | 14:52 |
| persia | We'll still edit the same file, but we should avoid direct conflict. | 14:52 |
| matthewbodkin | Yes that'll be fine :) So I'll just make sure I've fixed everything else and leave the 'But Why?' section how it was originally in your capable hands | 14:53 |
| persia | SotK: What do you think of "StoryBoard is open source! If you would like to contribute to the development of StoryBoard, please take a look a the "Project Resources" and "Getting Started" sections of our README." ? | 14:54 |
| SotK | is the README likely to grow a "Getting Started" section anytime soon? | 14:55 |
| persia | My copy has one now. | 14:58 |
| persia | (not added by my patch) | 14:58 |
| persia | So if master doesn't, I worry. | 14:59 |
| Zara | hm, there is one in the readme, but it's not really for getting started, just commands to run after the webclient is installed | 15:00 |
| Zara | the docs that were previously linked are the actual place to start. so that prrrrrobably needs sorting out | 15:01 |
| Zara | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/355912/1/README.md@26 | 15:01 |
| Zara | so atm the readme is more 'further details on using the webclient' | 15:02 |
| persia | Zara: So you think README.md should grow a note that the linked developer manual (especially code review workflow) is a key thing to read? | 15:02 |
| Zara | http://docs.openstack.org/infra/storyboard/install/development.html#installing-the-javascript-based-web-client is actual getting started stuff (soon to be updated with matthew's new patches) | 15:03 |
| Zara | yeah, I think so. atm we have all the docs in the storyboard repo | 15:03 |
| Zara | which I think has arisen out of there being no js docs framework | 15:03 |
| Zara | that's in the process of changing across openstack | 15:03 |
| Zara | but until it does, we'd either have to have pythony stuff in the storyboard repo to autogenerate docs | 15:03 |
| persia | Excellent, which will put this commit into the appropriate bin as it gets adopted. | 15:04 |
| Zara | or we'd have to have our own adhoc solution, or just continue as we have (which is where we have general docs in storyboard, and specific webclient stuff for a web developer in the webclient readme) | 15:04 |
| Zara | most people looking to set up an instance don't really get the webclient/api distinction at first and just think of it all as 'storyboard' so I think it works pretty well; new contributors seem to find the docs there, though I don't know if they use the about page or a search or what | 15:05 |
| Zara | (whatever the reason, that's one people can normally find on their own, so I'm happy to keep the installation docs like that for now) | 15:06 |
| openstackgerrit | Emmet Hikory proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Add Worklists and Boards to About Page https://review.openstack.org/355912 | 15:06 |
| Zara | (+ I think the api stands alone but not the webclient) | 15:07 |
| persia | The webclient can stand alone, but it requires some compatible API somewhere to do anything other than produce error messages. | 15:08 |
| Zara | well, yep. | 15:08 |
| persia | So there isn't much point to setting it up by itself unless one wants to use modified UI against some preexisting API server. | 15:08 |
| * persia has set it up standalone a couple times when not wanting to store the packaged JS on the API server for various reasons. | 15:09 | |
| Zara | I'm not saying it doesn't run, but that you can't use it for anything interesting. | 15:10 |
| SotK | So, the about page README link goes to here: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/storyboard/tree/README.rst | 15:10 |
| SotK | which definitely doesn't have a "Getting Started" section | 15:11 |
| persia | Oh, yes, indeed. | 15:12 |
| * persia appears to have had a large thinko there | 15:12 | |
| Zara | oh, it's linking to the storyboard readme rather than the webclient readme, for extra fun | 15:14 |
| persia | So, what is the best way to do this? Change that README to contain "Motivation", not mention "OpenStack", and have a "Getting Started" section that refers to the right places as another patch in the same topic with Depends-On:, or change the link to reference storyboard-webclient/README.md ? | 15:14 |
| Zara | I'd really rather the 'getting started' on the about page just continued to link to the docs. | 15:15 |
| persia | The developer manual? | 15:16 |
| persia | So no links to project README at all? | 15:16 |
| persia | (either one)? | 15:16 |
| persia | Also, where should the "Motivation" section go, having been removed from "About" to make space for Worklists and Boards? | 15:16 |
| Zara | I think we can keep the readme but it probably doesn't need its own paragraph, just a link below the developers manual? | 15:17 |
| Zara | really, contributing should contain a link to infra docs and a link to sb docs. imo the 'see project readme' button can just go wherever on the page there's room | 15:20 |
| persia | Makes sense. Which README? | 15:22 |
| persia | (storyboard vs. storyboard-webclient) | 15:22 |
| persia | Also, which README should contain the "Motivation" section? | 15:22 |
| Zara | I think storyboard. | 15:22 |
| persia | So two patches, with Depends-On: ? | 15:22 |
| Zara | (based on how people file bugs, most people looking for storyboard things will default to there) | 15:23 |
| persia | Makes sense. | 15:24 |
| openstackgerrit | Emmet Hikory proposed openstack-infra/storyboard: Describe Storyboard in more detail https://review.openstack.org/356021 | 15:44 |
| Zara | some slight nits with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/355886/ but would be okay with merging, sharing it here in case anyone wants to take a look first and missed the notification as the old patch was abandoned (matthew's fix to docs) | 15:50 |
| Zara | if I don't hear any objections, I intend to merge it later tonight | 15:51 |
| matthewbodkin | I was going to make some last second tweaks that persia recommended and I think are good tomorrow morning but I can do them quickly now if that's easier | 15:52 |
| Zara | okay, there's no rush with it, I can leave it alone | 15:52 |
| persia | matthewbodkin: I'm not fussed about either of those points (or I wouldn't have reviewed with +1) | 15:53 |
| matthewbodkin | Okay it'll only be quick I should so that'll be done by the time you wake up :) | 15:53 |
| persia | The line numbers are especially tricky, and if you wanted to do them dynamically, a follow-up patch would be a better place. | 15:53 |
| matthewbodkin | persia: I like the idea of 3a, 3b and 3c that's all | 15:54 |
| persia | Oh, heh, no worries if you want to change it :) | 15:54 |
| matthewbodkin | I think it might look nicer haha | 15:54 |
| openstackgerrit | Emmet Hikory proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Add Worklists and Boards to About Page https://review.openstack.org/355912 | 15:57 |
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| openstackgerrit | Emmet Hikory proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Add Worklists and Boards to About Page https://review.openstack.org/355912 | 16:00 |
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| Zara | I'm disappearing for a bit in advance of infra meeting | 16:28 |
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| Zara | thinking about worklist imports, maybe it would make sense to only allow importing of a worklist into a board if the person importing it was the worklist owner. still sounds fiddly. | 17:36 |
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| persia | The more I think about it, the more I think that it is better to have them be separate concepts. Another area of confusion is subscriptions and notifications. | 18:09 |
| SotK | I agree, it'll quickly get confusing if we allow importing | 18:18 |
| SotK | maybe if the person importing it was the *sole* owner, and there were no users | 18:18 |
| Zara | I think it's something people are going to ask after a lot, but yeah, that's going to be very specific to code for and probably more trouble than it's worth (both making it possible and explaining how it works) | 18:21 |
| persia | I think if people ask, the answer is "that's only an implementation detail: there's too many things that are different to make it work", and then never make a list of all the things (so they don't get fixed) | 19:06 |
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