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| Zara | morning, storyboard | 08:43 |
|---|---|---|
| SotK | mornint! | 08:43 |
| SotK | s/t/g/ | 08:43 |
| SotK | its dark in here! | 08:43 |
| Zara | oh I thought you just liked static typing these days | 08:43 |
| Zara | hm, no wonder https://www.openstack.org/summit/barcelona-2016/summit-schedule/events/17364/containers-on-bare-metal-for-game-developer-crowdstar was a surprise, given the abstract. | 08:50 |
| pedroalvarez | sounds interesting | 08:58 |
| SotK | it was actually an advert for their "app for women" which was "dress up an avatar in designer clothes" | 09:09 |
| pedroalvarez | ._o | 09:14 |
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| Zara | it was rather surreal | 09:24 |
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| openstackgerrit | Adam Coldrick proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Make it possible to link to a search/browse for stories https://review.openstack.org/390671 | 10:59 |
| SotK | still not really happy with the big set of if statements, but it'll do for now I guess... | 11:00 |
| pedroalvarez | :) | 11:01 |
| pedroalvarez | it's a step forward | 11:01 |
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| Zara | we just saw something very exciting in the storyboard world... =D | 13:07 |
| pedroalvarez | tell us! | 13:08 |
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| Zara | I'd feel bad announcing it before jeblair's ready; watch this space! | 14:12 |
| Zara | it's pretty! | 14:12 |
| Zara | tristanC: will spend a bit of time now looking at redmine to get an idea of how things would map to storyboard things | 14:14 |
| tristanC | Zara: heh, that's not really required, it's actually quite easy to map redmine issues to storyboard. | 14:19 |
| tristanC | Zara: the difficulty is to replicate the backlog workflow (picking story from backlog for a sprint) and doing scrum with it | 14:20 |
| Zara | tristanC: ahhh, great, if you're confident with it! :D (the 'stories containing tasks linked to projects' vs 'tasks being in stories in projects' thing can make things unexpectedly interesting sometimes, so I'm used to starting there.) | 14:22 |
| SotK | sounds like it maybe could be done with a board | 14:24 |
| * SotK mocks something up on storyboard-dev to see if he understands correctly | 14:25 | |
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| Zara | eep I got disconnected for a bit | 14:34 |
| Zara | yeah, for scrum things it sounds like you'd want to use boards in combination with a tag for 'backlog', but the details could be trickier | 14:35 |
| * SotK makes https://storyboard-dev.openstack.org/#!/board/13 | 14:38 | |
| Zara | lol I was in the process of making board 14 | 14:38 |
| SotK | haha | 14:38 |
| SotK | that has a manually populated backlog, which may or may not be good | 14:39 |
| Zara | I hadn't got round to making it automatic | 14:39 |
| Zara | oh, yours | 14:40 |
| Zara | SYNERGY | 14:40 |
| SotK | :D | 14:41 |
| Zara | the issue with 14 is that 1) you'd have to manually remove the tag from teh story to add it to any other lane and 2) the old 'you can't filter on 'tasks in story with tag x' | 14:41 |
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| persia | From a wirkflow perspective, I like manually populated backlog, as I think it maps well to a target priority worklist. | 15:12 |
| persia | but that runs into the lane! = worklist issue | 15:12 |
| SotK | that mapping makes me want to be able to put worklists into a board again xD | 15:13 |
| persia | yes :) | 15:13 |
| SotK | maybe as read-only or something | 15:13 |
| SotK | or not | 15:13 |
| SotK | argh | 15:13 |
| Zara | :) | 15:13 |
| tristanC | the missing bit for sprint management is story points and sprint sums of points | 15:13 |
| persia | read only breaks removing it to put in the I-have-it lane | 15:13 |
| persia | tristanC: could you expand on that? | 15:14 |
| tristanC | persia: the redmine backlog plugins allows you to set story's points (complexicity), and when you create a sprint with a bunch of stories, it tells you the number of point to do | 15:23 |
| persia | Ah. Thanks for the explanation. I am uncertain how that fits for multiple parallel stakeholder sets, but see the key advantages in terms or organising a sprint. | 15:25 |
| * SotK wonders about setting points on cards in boards rather than on stories | 15:25 | |
| persia | Maybe it needs a new top level data structure (sprint)? | 15:26 |
| persia | hmm. | 15:26 |
| SotK | I don't know how much different a sprint is to a worklist/board | 15:27 |
| Zara | SotK: yeah, it sounds like another thing that is pretty subjective, one could (ab)use task notes for it though it wouldn't automatically total | 15:27 |
| SotK | (maybe board with a due date) | 15:27 |
| * Zara wonders how helpful people find the points | 15:27 | |
| persia | Depends on the semantics. Sprints are usually time-bound development efforts, to accomplish a set of goals. Sine folk would map to "milestone", depending on which books they liked. | 15:28 |
| persia | Points are a good way to control the volume of work, so that a fixed set if resources can complete a defined set of activities during the tine period. | 15:29 |
| persia | It is not far from the effort-estimation item discussed several months ago. | 15:30 |
| * SotK feels like that could indeed be sufficiently different | 15:32 | |
| persia | points and estimates? | 15:33 |
| SotK | boards and sprints | 15:33 |
| SotK | the resourcing parts in particular | 15:33 |
| SotK | a sprint feels like a board + more things | 15:33 |
| persia | The resourcing is the bit that makes me most uncertain about match for Storyboard, as Storyboard is explicitly for elastic resources and multiple stakeholders. I think of it as sonewhat like due dates, where they only have meaning in a board. | 15:35 |
| Zara | I agree, as a plugin it might be interesting | 15:35 |
| Zara | but I don't think it's a good idea to cram it into storyboard itself | 15:35 |
| SotK | we don't have a pluggable UI though :( | 15:35 |
| persia | I wonder if a ad print maps to a named due date, if one assumes nobody starts on things before the start date for the sprint. | 15:35 |
| SotK | persia: that sounds plausible | 15:36 |
| persia | s/ad print/a sprint/ | 15:36 |
| Zara | a pluggable UI would aso be interesting... >:) | 15:36 |
| Zara | *also | 15:36 |
| SotK | it doesn't solve the "points" issue though | 15:36 |
| Zara | you *could* store them in task notes and then have something to parse task notes | 15:37 |
| persia | So, is the missing part that there is no way to size the set of work assigned to a due date? | 15:37 |
| SotK | I believe so | 15:37 |
| Zara | (though that's not tied to the board, but to the task) | 15:37 |
| * persia does not like abusing task notes to include machine readable data | 15:38 | |
| * SotK neither | 15:38 | |
| persia | especially not for things that may be irrelevant to many users. | 15:38 |
| Zara | hm, the alternative is a db table and api support, so for me the preferred approach depends on how widely something will be used | 15:38 |
| persia | Adding fields is not that complicated, once the semantics have been determined, to avoid confusion (cf. priority) | 15:39 |
| Zara | it's more that it makes storyboard sprawling and harder to keep up to date | 15:39 |
| persia | true. | 15:39 |
| * SotK doesn't care if someone's random sprint board gets out of date, that is their problem | 15:40 | |
| Zara | I mean the actual codebase | 15:40 |
| Zara | it's another thing that can get broken with api changes | 15:40 |
| persia | maybe sprints should be d one with a cross-site app that generates a board with due-dates | 15:40 |
| persia | so obe defines points, etc. to a site-local db, then pushes the finished board ti the storyboard for consumption by participants. | 15:41 |
| tristanC | persia: board seems enough to represent a sprint, but what a story could use is a complexity/points field | 15:42 |
| * persia should really get a real keyboard sone day | 15:42 | |
| tristanC | having the sum of point in a board is really a goodies | 15:43 |
| persia | tristanC: I do not think that is story-level, vecause 1) tasks can be created at any time after ut was populated, and 2) most estimates are person or team specific. | 15:44 |
| persia | task complexity, summed for dynamic story complexity is more sensible, but means one needs to entirely understand a story to estimate, whuch is not very compatible with a number of popular development methodologies. | 15:45 |
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| * Zara tries to break https://review.openstack.org/#/c/390671/ | 16:00 | |
| Zara | okay, so I found a thing, but I'm not sure it's a problem in practice | 16:06 |
| Zara | so if you search just text on, say, the story search, you currently get it to work by deleting the default filter (story status) and then typing the search string and clicking the magnifying glass option from the dropdown | 16:07 |
| Zara | if you don't, you get an error | 16:07 |
| Zara | with teh patch, you get the error whenever you search on just text | 16:07 |
| Zara | *the | 16:07 |
| Zara | the reason I'm not sure it's an issue is that I suspect sotk and I are the only ones who know how to get it to work at the moment. | 16:07 |
| Zara | so for everyone else, they're seeing errors anyway | 16:08 |
| Zara | (this is the 400: unknown argument: status) | 16:09 |
| persia | Still worth tracking down. Something unexpected is breaking, which may hace other effects (if only confusing code encountered later) | 16:13 |
| Zara | I'm guessing because it always has status as a default param, but the details elude me at this point | 16:15 |
| SotK | there is a patch for that which I sent the other day | 16:21 |
| SotK | to add parameters to search in the api | 16:21 |
| Zara | ohh, I forgot about it, ignore me | 16:21 |
| Zara | for some reason in my head it was 'wip webclient patch replaced by actual webclient patch' | 16:21 |
| Zara | and forgot about the api patch | 16:22 |
| * Zara (re)discovers https://review.openstack.org/#/c/389997/ | 16:23 | |
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| SotK | heh, I'd forgotten about it too, I assume that is the patch persia was asking me about earlier? | 20:23 |
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| openstackgerrit | Adam Coldrick proposed openstack-infra/storyboard: WIP Attempt to fix tests https://review.openstack.org/390971 | 20:25 |
| persia | SotK: yes :) | 21:02 |
| SotK | then I apologise for my misleading answer | 21:22 |
| persia | No worries. Ready for review is good enough (and I will look at it then) | 21:42 |
| * SotK believes it to be ready for review, unless folk want to be squash a similar change for other resources into the same commit | 21:44 | |
| Zara | oh, I just noticed the test-fix attempt, nice | 21:44 |
| SotK | didn't work though :( | 21:44 |
| Zara | still | 21:44 |
| Zara | it's easier for me to remember it's a thing when there's a patch | 21:44 |
| Zara | squashing is quicker from a testing perspective but could mean the whole thing gets delayed, so probably better for me to just look at it already | 21:45 |
| Zara | I got distracted by biscuits | 21:46 |
| Zara | this always happens | 21:46 |
| * SotK ate half a packet of chocomoos earlier | 21:46 | |
| * Zara searches 'chocomoos' | 21:46 | |
| SotK | http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PUjfwX4gJSA/TlIHEoTTAnI/AAAAAAAAApc/l7UNhHo7Vyg/s1600/Copy-of-untitled4.jpg | 21:47 |
| Zara | (I bought these ones since they looked tasty: https://www.google.es/search?q=creme+noisette+loacker&biw=1366&bih=597&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjl9q__uPnPAhXDiRoKHbBNC5kQ_AUIBigB | 21:47 |
| Zara | they're amazing, like happy hippos but more affordable | 21:47 |
| Zara | ahaha | 21:47 |
| Zara | 'chocoMoo' is a great name | 21:47 |
| SotK | they are delicious too | 21:48 |
| * Zara sighs at uk food | 21:49 | |
| openstackgerrit | Adam Coldrick proposed openstack-infra/storyboard: Add filters to the /v1/stories/search endpoint https://review.openstack.org/389997 | 22:36 |
| openstackgerrit | Adam Coldrick proposed openstack-infra/storyboard: Add filters to the /v1/tasks/search endpoint https://review.openstack.org/390983 | 22:36 |
| Zara | HAH I just pulled that to review it | 22:37 |
| SotK | sorry | 22:37 |
| * Zara pulls again xD | 22:38 | |
| SotK | I realised a thing | 22:38 |
| Zara | meh I'm glad I waited | 22:38 |
| Zara | (but seriously, I started up my instance with the change, then this screen lit up) | 22:38 |
| SotK | :) | 22:38 |
| SotK | in other news, I took far too long to realise that I was getting a weird error because I'd passed sort_field to sort_dir... | 22:39 |
| SotK | time for bed! | 22:39 |
| Zara | heh, 'night | 22:39 |
| Zara | I'll look at it now to see if I can catch anything else but I'm going to bed soon | 22:39 |
| SotK | night :) | 22:41 |
| Zara | seems fine | 23:45 |
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