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| dmsimard | Hi #storyboard, my name is David and I'm a storyboard user | 13:18 |
|---|---|---|
| Zara | hi dmsimard :) | 13:18 |
| dmsimard | I'm in sort of a weird spot | 13:18 |
| dmsimard | I have this project that's drawing a lot of interest and would-be contributors from outside the OpenStack ecosystem | 13:19 |
| dmsimard | The actual project is ARA ( https://github.com/openstack/ara ) but you could put some other projects, for example jenkins-job-builder I guess, in that kind of category | 13:20 |
| Zara | ah, cool, I've seen it around | 13:20 |
| dmsimard | I'm sort of intimidated from introducing folks to the storyboard workflow for people that are used for the most part to the Github issues/pr workflow. Any tips ? | 13:21 |
| dmsimard | I already have a diluted version of openstack-dev upstream gerrit contribution workflow and that's intimidating enough for non-openstack folks ( http://ara.readthedocs.io/en/latest/contributing.html ) | 13:21 |
| Zara | yeah, I can see the difficulty there; I think in general it's good to introduce people to one new thing at a time or they get overwhelmed | 13:24 |
| Zara | I think the key thing with the storyboard workflow is that it allows people to track tasks *across* projects, whereas aiui github issues is per-repo | 13:25 |
| Zara | so explaining the context behind it might help people follow how it works | 13:26 |
| SotK | probably s/projects/repositories/ there for non-openstack folk | 13:26 |
| SotK | perhaps | 13:26 |
| SotK | if only to help with the comparison | 13:26 |
| Zara | (for example, stories are related to projects via tasks, *because* stories are cross-project, so it doesn't make sense to have a story 'in' a project) | 13:27 |
| dmsimard | Zara: yeah, in my context, ARA is really one project/one repo -- there is no need to track things across different projects like, say, nova | 13:27 |
| Zara | yeah, if it's likely to stay that way, I'm not sure they'd get enough value out of storyboard to justify learning a whole new workflow; if it's likely to interact with other projects later, it's probably good to start with storyboard since otherwise you'll have a fight on your hands trying to shift it later once people are settled. | 13:29 |
| dmsimard | Zara: but the reality is some OpenStack projects don't really have this cross-project need, right ? | 13:29 |
| SotK | storyboard allows folk to express complex priority too, which other things tend to not do | 13:30 |
| dmsimard | Zara: is it expected that some projects will stay on launchpad or move on to something other than storyboard ? | 13:31 |
| Zara | dmsimard: I don't think staying on launchpad solves the problem of being used to a github issues workflow. | 13:32 |
| SotK | afaik there is no intention to leave anything on launchpad | 13:33 |
| dmsimard | Zara: you're not wrong, I'm generating discussion around what you mentioned around single-project versus multi-project tracking | 13:33 |
| SotK | I'm not sure that the basic "filing an issue" workflow is that different to github issues anyway, it can be reduced to "go to your project page and click new story, then describe the issue" | 13:34 |
| * SotK hasn't used the kanban boards provided by github and so can't comment on similarities there | 13:34 | |
| persia | The only tricky bit is that people might be confused when adding new tasks to an existing story. | 13:34 |
| dmsimard | I'd be satisfied with a one-to-one mapping story/task as an "issue" or "bug" | 13:35 |
| SotK | persia: is that massively different to searching for a related issue to the one you are going to file, and commenting on it instead of filing a new issue? | 13:36 |
| dmsimard | So, how about this -- I guess storyboard will be moving on to OpenStackID eventually, yes ? Will it be the sole supported login mechanism or could storyboard also support, say, GitHub openid ? | 13:36 |
| SotK | I suspect that openstack's instance will only support openstackid, but I cannot state that with authority | 13:36 |
| Zara | dmsimard: hm, re: one-to-one mapping, you can certainly use a story as an 'issue' if you want, though I'm not sure I've understood. | 13:37 |
| persia | SotK: Probably not, if the docs suggest comments vs. task addition. Thinking about it, it's probably better to have docs suggest comments, perhaps with minor hints so that interested developers can add tasks (but perhaps after having worked with the tools a bit). | 13:37 |
| * SotK would like storyboard instances to be able to support openid providers at once though | 13:37 | |
| SotK | s/support/support multiple/ | 13:37 |
| persia | I looked at adding multiple providers in the past: the entire auth module would need reworking, but the database should be fine, and the user workflow not that different. | 13:38 |
| Zara | (I think it'd be good to investigate a way of mapping github/lab issues to storyboard issues to make it easier for folk to import.) | 13:39 |
| * SotK thinks that it would be advisable to recommend "comment with information if you have a similar problem" to users rather than "create a task" | 13:39 | |
| SotK | since I suspect the created task will likely need changing or throwing away by the person fixing it anyway | 13:39 |
| SotK | what with tasks theoretically mapping roughly to commits | 13:40 |
| SotK | on github/lab issues, I think the correct mapping is "each github issue is a story" | 13:41 |
| dmsimard | Zara: I guess what I'm trying to generate discussion on is that it should be easy for people not familiar with the openstack workflow to contribute (report bugs, comment on issues, etc.) | 13:41 |
| persia | For users, I think advice to comment, so 1 task/bug makes sense. For developers not used to multitask workflows, it's a bit more complicated. | 13:41 |
| dmsimard | Of course mostly everyone here considers that as granted since we're used to gerrit and openstack in general | 13:41 |
| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Gerrit is going to be restarted due to performance problems | 13:42 | |
| *** ChanServ changes topic to "Gerrit is going to be restarted due to performance problems" | 13:42 | |
| Zara | dmsimard: agreed, it's mostly uncharted territory for us | 13:42 |
| Zara | I'm interested in finding out where the pain points are | 13:43 |
| * SotK was assuming that issues may need one or more tasks completing in order for the issue to be resolved | 13:43 | |
| persia | dmsimard: While I agree it should be easy, there are some things (like multitask and complex priority) that can't be mapped well, and education is the only sensible path. While this can be painful (I've seen any number of projects learning how to balance multiple bugs vs. multiple tasks in LP), the results are typically useful, once people get there. | 13:43 |
| dmsimard | Zara: I think the OpenStack foundation sponsored some proper UX studies/surveys a while back for Horizon -- maybe we could do the same for storyboard | 13:43 |
| persia | I would expect the same sort of fumbling for complex priority (which is new in Storyboard), and I'm not sure what sort of docs can help (as I've not seen any docs on LP that gave good guidance on how many tasks to create for a bug). | 13:44 |
| dmsimard | persia: yeah, I mean, there is definitely some work to do from the part of the maintainers in documenting/educating | 13:44 |
| dmsimard | not expecting it to be a drop-in replacement to what people are used to | 13:44 |
| persia | dmsimard: with s/maintainers/contributors/, I agree entirely :) | 13:44 |
| dmsimard | persia: yeah, sorry, I come from a distro land :P | 13:45 |
| persia | I also, although from one of the "there is no maintainer" distros :) | 13:45 |
| Zara | dmsimard: that could be interesting. I'm not sure that familiarity with openstack makes *that* much difference to getting to grips with storyboard, though I guess there's the assumption that a task-tracker is separate conceptually from review. | 13:47 |
| Zara | (I was thinking about how they'd find representative users) | 13:47 |
| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Gerrit has been successfully restarted | 13:48 | |
| *** ChanServ changes topic to "Gerrit has been successfully restarted" | 13:48 | |
| persia | There are a number of workflows that have bug tracker separate from review, but I think most of them use mailing list review, which seems not to be something chosen for new projects in some time. Launchpad used to try to make the distinction, but not enough people use bzr to notice, really. | 13:49 |
| Zara | (fwiw, the biggest pain-point I've found with people new to storyboard is the mapping between projects, stories and tasks, so we now have various materials dotted around on those.) | 13:49 |
| Zara | (the question: 'why is this making a task when I make my issue; I don't want any tasks' is the indicator for that one) | 13:50 |
| Zara | dmsimard: there is a drafty thing up here https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000667 (sorry if I've already linked it at some point) | 13:50 |
| Zara | that might help with that | 13:50 |
| persia | Zara: Do you know from where those users come? The "create a task and a bug is automatically generated" is one of the basic features of Launchpad. | 13:51 |
| * persia has been presuming most users are migrating from LP, but that sort of comment suggests other systems | 13:52 | |
| Zara | persia: these are the users I've met who don't come from an openstack background and are more used to other tools (not enough to be representative for any sort of study) | 13:52 |
| persia | Makes sense. The number of non-OpenStack folk who used LP extensively isn't very large anymore. | 13:53 |
| *** ChanServ changes topic to "Gerrit is going to be restarted due to performance problems" | 13:55 | |
| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Gerrit has been successfully restarted | 13:55 | |
| dmsimard | So, glad to have generated some discussion on the topic, achievement unlocked :D | 14:09 |
| * dmsimard goes back to his cave | 14:09 | |
| Zara | :P aw, we love a good discussion | 14:11 |
| dmsimard | That's what I do, I ask questions and generate discussion :) | 14:13 |
| Zara | \o/ feel free to bring stuff up whenever it occurs; makes us feel popular | 14:14 |
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| diablo_rojo | SotK, zara_the_lemur__ it sounds like Monasca wants to move next Monday so that they can chat about it in their meeting on Wednesday and communicate it for the rest of the week. | 17:37 |
| diablo_rojo | I can talk to Refstack about moving this week, unless we just want to wait and move them both together next week. | 17:38 |
| SotK | next week is best | 17:54 |
| diablo_rojo | Okay cool. I wont be around Monday (I'll be on vacation) but I will do all the legwork I can before I go. | 18:44 |
| diablo_rojo | SotK, for that first comment in the loader.py file on my patch, what will the links to the branches look like? I can do some string manipulation to strip off the stuff rather easily. | 19:29 |
| diablo_rojo | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/437469/1/storyboard/migrate/launchpad/loader.py | 19:29 |
| * diablo_rojo finally gets around to addressing comments | 19:29 | |
| zara_the_lemur__ | he's abandoned us to join the circus | 19:30 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | or the theatre, I forget which | 19:30 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | (daresay he'll be about later tonight, but if he turns up we should shout at him to go to bed) | 19:31 |
| diablo_rojo | Ha ha but if he wants to do more work...who are we to stop him? | 19:32 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | people who haven't learned it's futile to try, probably xD | 19:35 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | but I gotta make at least a token attempt. | 19:35 |
| diablo_rojo | zara_the_lemur__, I suppose I can allow that ;) | 19:35 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | mainly because that way, if he doesn't listen and regrets it, I can say 'I told you so'. | 19:36 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | I don't get that opportunity otherwise | 19:36 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | it won't affect what he actually does | 19:36 |
| diablo_rojo | Do you have any idea what the target_links will look like in the bugs? | 19:36 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | nope, but I'll take a look now | 19:37 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | okay looks like there is at least 1 example here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/534066 | 19:38 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 534066 in Launchpad itself "changing bugtask attributes via api gives "412 precondition failed"" [Critical,Fix released] - Assigned to James Westby (james-w) | 19:38 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | u'target_link': u'https://api.edge.launchpad.net/beta/bzr' | 19:38 |
| diablo_rojo | gross | 19:39 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | I'm not sure what 'beta' and 'bzr' would correspond to exactly for an openstack project, but looks like you're safe to assume anything before that bit can be stripped. | 19:40 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | (like idk anything about those; is one a project and one a branch? one a project within another project? just no idea...) | 19:41 |
| diablo_rojo | hmm | 19:42 |
| diablo_rojo | Okay well I can throw something in there for now and we can see how badly things break. | 19:42 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | sounds like a plan! :D | 19:43 |
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| openstackgerrit | Kendall Nelson proposed openstack-infra/storyboard master: Handle Branches from Launchpad in Migration https://review.openstack.org/437469 | 19:47 |
| persia | In LP, "beta" was an alternate URL scheme that let one access newer code than was in production, if one wished. I suspect it can be ignored for migration purposes (most of us ignore it in LP for lots of other reasons). | 19:51 |
| persia | I suspect "bzr" is a reference to a project. | 19:51 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | ah, so in cases where there is 'beta' that should probably be stripped | 19:53 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | guess that's handy to know for constructing a regexp... you might be able to take anything after the last slash... but I don't know if anything will have a different pattern | 19:54 |
| SotK | they are normally like https://api.launchpad.net/nova/mitaka iirc | 19:55 |
| SotK | warning: that domain may be wrong | 19:56 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | oh, haha, openstack switched it round then | 19:56 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | ALSO YOU MISSED YOUR CUE | 19:56 |
| persia | Maybe check in #launchpad to be sure, but I remember stripping "beta" from *many* links in the past. | 19:56 |
| SotK | but they definitely end with $project/$release | 19:56 |
| SotK | if it is against master then the release bit is omitted | 19:57 |
| SotK | and my cue isn't until the 3rd act! | 19:57 |
| SotK | if it hasn't been discovered yet, the target_links look like https://api.launchpad.net/1.0/mistral/mitaka | 22:31 |
| *** ChanServ changes topic to "StoryBoard - A task tracker for OpenStack development needs :: http://storyboard.openstack.org/ :: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard" | 22:42 | |
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