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| aspiers | persia: thanks again for talking to airship folks, very glad that happened. Hope you got home OK | 12:17 |
|---|---|---|
| aspiers | diablo_rojo_phon/persia: I think we need to migrate HA guide bugs to StoryBoard | 12:18 |
| aspiers | I see that eumel8 has started closing some of the older ones, but I would prefer if they were migrated | 12:18 |
| aspiers | Why is the story description preview not enabled by default? I can't see the point of making people click the "Preview Description" button | 12:25 |
| aspiers | StackOverflow shows the preview by default and it works great. | 12:25 |
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| aspiers | Filed as https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2005594 | 12:29 |
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| persia | aspiers: Happy to do so, and yes. | 13:21 |
| persia | I don't have any influence over migrations, so have to defer that one. | 13:21 |
| persia | I think the "show preview" button was just an implementation opinion. If showing preview-as-you-type works well in many browsers, we may as well change. Personally, I tend not to preview (but this may be obvious based on how some of my comments are rendered). | 13:22 |
| aspiers | persia: https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2005596 | 13:48 |
| persia | I don't think there is a good way to determine whether Markdown is used (there are several stories about the side effects when the user doesn't expect to be entering Markdown), so it would probably either have to be always-on or absent. | 13:49 |
| aspiers | What side-effects? | 13:49 |
| persia | https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2001675 is one of the bugs I mean | 13:50 |
| persia | There are some others, often from folk who pasted logs or similar | 13:50 |
| aspiers | OK, so that strengthens the argument for needing preview always-on | 13:51 |
| persia | Well, that's one way to solve the problem :) | 13:51 |
| persia | I'm not sure it helps in the log-pasting case, because I expect the submitter to merely skim the preview (or maybe the result will scroll off-screen or similar) | 13:52 |
| aspiers | Removing preview would create several problems and I can't see it solving many | 13:52 |
| persia | But it ought help people avoid making markdown mistakes in short comments. | 13:52 |
| aspiers | The preview and the source can both have overflow-y: scroll | 13:53 |
| persia | Yes. The button is annoying, although not looking at things before posting can also be annoying. The solution in 2005596 is probably the right one, although it needs some testing to deal with the log-pasting case. | 13:53 |
| aspiers | so scrolling off-screen is a non-issue | 13:53 |
| persia | That7s a good idea to deal with volume. | 13:53 |
| aspiers | Actually, they don't both need a scroll bar. StackExchange does it correctly and works for millions of users, so we should just copy that. | 13:54 |
| aspiers | Source goes first with overflow-y: scroll; preview follows below and can extend off the screen. That way it's a genuine preview. | 13:55 |
| persia | That's probably better. | 13:56 |
| persia | Although Stack Exchange is a less likely place for people to paste logs, so I'm unsure if their experience translates directly. | 13:57 |
| aspiers | True. | 13:57 |
| aspiers | But I've seen very many questions and answers on there which are long. | 13:57 |
| persia | (for clarity, I think auto-preview would be cool, but I'm unlikely to write that patch myself, and am mostly pointing out related concerns that should be involved in testing any implementation) | 13:57 |
| aspiers | (i.e. multiple pages) | 13:57 |
| aspiers | Sure | 13:57 |
| persia | As have I. I think they routinely handle 5k-ish text blobs. | 13:58 |
| persia | And once the OpenStack storyboard install gets attachment handling, the need to safely handle pasted logs should reduce. | 13:58 |
| aspiers | Nice! | 13:59 |
| persia | Long time coming: some code blockers, but a major factor was finding somone who would volunteer to host everything: we have no idea how much storage that might end up requiring. | 14:01 |
| persia | My understanding is that this has now been resolved, so folk are looking at cleaning up the last bits to turn it on. No schedule or anything (lots else on for that team at the moment), but at least mostly unblocked. | 14:01 |
| aspiers | Got it | 14:02 |
| aspiers | persia: BTW I found your brief summary of the nature/design of Storyboard at the beginning of the conversation with the airship folks *extremely* helpful and enlightening. Not saying it was news to me, but I hadn't heard it so explicitly articulated before. | 14:04 |
| aspiers | I think https://docs.openstack.org/infra/storyboard/gui/theory.html (or somewhere) really needs to capture that | 14:04 |
| aspiers | I'm talking about the notion of it specifically aiming to support an upstream dev model where there is no single entity in control, by empowering anyone to contribute | 14:05 |
| aspiers | To me, saying it was "custom designed to fit the OpenStack use-case" just isn't clear enough | 14:06 |
| aspiers | since many people won't fully appreciate what that use-case is. | 14:06 |
| aspiers | And this notion seems more important to capture than items like "API-first" | 14:07 |
| aspiers | yet the REST API section is the first one listed. | 14:07 |
| persia | Part of it is that "designed for how openstack works" and "designed for the upstream use case" aren't well understood by folk who aren't already part of an ill-defined "us". Folk used to environments with more silos or hierarchical models often benefit from an explanation reminding them that nobody is in charge (by design) in the community (we have governors, but not managers), and so it is useful in such an environment to have tooling that | 14:13 |
| persia | reflects that. | 14:13 |
| aspiers | Exactly | 14:14 |
| persia | OpenStack itself is a bit of a hybrid, as many of the teams end up being managed, rather than being self-directed based on the desires and needs of individual team members: it was partly out of those discussions that I learned the importance of describing the problem without referent. | 14:15 |
| aspiers | I think this is super-important, and deserves more visible communication. | 14:15 |
| persia | And then, sadly, I ended up learning about how folk use Jira in a couple environments, whilch opened my eyes considerably. | 14:15 |
| aspiers | And not just for the benefit of Storyboard, in fact. | 14:15 |
| aspiers | Haha | 14:15 |
| persia | Indeed. | 14:15 |
| persia | It's to the benefit of Open Source in general that we expose the ideas of everyone-selfishly-contributing-to-a-governed-commons-for-their-own-benefit. | 14:16 |
| aspiers | Don't suppose I could entice you to submit a patch to doc/source/user/theory.rst covering this? I'd happily review it. | 14:16 |
| persia | But that's a bigger problem. For now patching the storyboard docs is a reasonable start. | 14:16 |
| persia | Eh. Not soonish :) I am terrible at originating things (because they end up on my "todo" list). | 14:17 |
| persia | If you want to start something, it's easier for me to organise myself to review (and possibly suggest/adjust stuff during the review), as I've become well trained to fix things in review now, because reviews don't wait until my todo list is shorter. | 14:18 |
| aspiers | OK, if you can summarise the key bullet points here, I'll try to translate into full sentences. | 14:18 |
| aspiers | I'm not confident I have a good enough understanding to write it myself from scratch without at least a little guidance. | 14:19 |
| aspiers | This area is your bread-and-butter AFAICS, whereas it isn't mine so much. | 14:19 |
| persia | I don't remember what I said that impressed you so. | 14:21 |
| aspiers | Well you repeated most of it here just now, I guess. | 14:21 |
| persia | Probably something about how StoryBoard was designed for collaboration between many projects with contributions from many stakeholders, leading to design choices very different to those in Jira. | 14:21 |
| aspiers | Right | 14:22 |
| persia | Or you did when you descirbed it :) | 14:22 |
| aspiers | But what are those design choices? They include worklists and complex priorities, but fortunately those are already nicely documented in theory.rst. | 14:22 |
| aspiers | What else? | 14:22 |
| aspiers | What are the other unique features of Storyboard? | 14:23 |
| aspiers | e.g. tasks which can belong to multiple stories | 14:23 |
| aspiers | Damn, just realised I forgot to have lunch. | 14:24 |
| aspiers | Body clock is currently on a timezone somewhere in the Atlantic | 14:24 |
| persia | I'm not sure if Storyboard does support a single task in multiple stories. Certainly not in the UI. | 14:30 |
| persia | It supports multiple tasks per story and both allows them against different projects (like Launchpad) and the same project (like Jira). | 14:31 |
| persia | Whereas Launchpad only permits one bugtask per bug per release and what I've seen of Jira only permits stories where all tasks are in a single project. | 14:32 |
| persia | At a high level, most of Storyboard comes from Launchpad, adjusted to deal with some of the things that made people complain about Launchpad. | 14:33 |
| persia | But for folk who don't have long experience with Launchpad (or haven't used some of the more advanced features), that doesn't help, really. | 14:33 |
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| openstackgerrit | Adam Spiers proposed opendev/storyboard master: Clarify the rationale for StoryBoard's unique design https://review.opendev.org/657633 | 16:11 |
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| Zara | btw, misc old resources that may overlap, are hosted in a slightly strange place and may well be out of date: https://storyboard-blog.io/ | 16:22 |
| aspiers | oooh | 16:22 |
| aspiers | Zara: I've been looking for https://storyboard-blog.io/why-storyboard-for-openstack.html for ages. I knew I'd seen it before | 16:23 |
| Zara | (source: https://github.com/Zarathecat/storyboard-blog (I think it ended up on gh because we wanted to set it up quickly while we all had the energy to do it)) | 16:24 |
| Zara | heh yeah I don't know if its existence is documented anywhere? we maybe were going to hold off until we got a more official home for it, but I don't honestly remember | 16:24 |
| Zara | I still abuse the server as an irc bouncer | 16:25 |
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| Zara | otherwise I'd've probably forgotten about it | 16:25 |
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| prometheanfire | is there a way to do dependencies between a task an another task or a task and a story or a story and a story or task? | 19:11 |
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| johnsom | Sigh: 500: POST /api/v1/tasks: (pymysql.err.InternalError) (1213, u'Deadlock found when trying to get lock; try restarting transaction') [SQL: u'UPDATE stories SET updated_at=%(updated_at)s WHERE stories.id = %(stories_id)s'] [parameters: {'updated_at': datetime.datetime(2019, 5, 7, 21, 27, 42, 6336), 'stories_id': 2005607}] (Background on this error at: http://sqlalche.me/e/2j85) | 21:28 |
| johnsom | followed by: 400: POST /api/v1/stories/2005607: Invalid input for field/attribute story. Value: '2005607'. unable to convert to Story | 21:28 |
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| johnsom | And again:500: POST /api/v1/tasks: (pymysql.err.InternalError) (1213, u'Deadlock found when trying to get lock; try restarting transaction') [SQL: u'UPDATE stories SET updated_at=%(updated_at)s WHERE stories.id = %(stories_id)s'] [parameters: {'updated_at': datetime.datetime(2019, 5, 7, 21, 39, 34, 437109), 'stories_id': 2005608}] (Background on this error at: http://sqlalche.me/e/2j85) | 21:39 |
| johnsom | Looks like that one lost at least a task | 21:40 |
| johnsom | Three out of four stories.... | 21:50 |
| johnsom | 500: POST /api/v1/tasks: (pymysql.err.InternalError) (1213, u'Deadlock found when trying to get lock; try restarting transaction') [SQL: u'UPDATE stories SET updated_at=%(updated_at)s WHERE stories.id = %(stories_id)s'] [parameters: {'updated_at': datetime.datetime(2019, 5, 7, 21, 50, 37, 781663), 'stories_id': 2005609}] (Background on this error at: http://sqlalche.me/e/2j85) | 21:50 |
| johnsom | That one also lost a task | 21:51 |
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