Thursday, 2013-12-26

« Wednesday, 2013-12-25 Index Friday, 2013-12-27 »
jog0lifeless: right now we require nova.conf for an havana cloud to work for an icehouse cloud with no modifications.00:03
jog0right now we cannot do a rolling upgrade without touching nova.conf files00:04
jog0but we can do a non-rolling upgrade without touching the nova.conf file00:04
jog0the question is: in that acceptable or not00:04
lifelessah00:07
lifelessso, it would be a lot easier if rolling upgrades didn'00:07
lifelesst require the editing dance that is in use today00:07
lifelessbut it's not a matter of 'acceptable' - we can cope either way00:08
lifelessright now it would be00:08
lifelessone stack-update to set the version locks00:08
lifelessone stack-update to upgrade the conductor instances00:08
lifelessone stack-update to ugprade the hypervisors and other things00:08
lifelessone stack-update to remove the version locks00:08
lifelessyou can see that that's pretty messy, but doable00:08
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jog0right the current system works, but are we happy enough with that answer or do we make version locks controllable via an REST API00:41
jog0I'm on the fence on this.  one one hand, I think its reasonable to say that to do rolling upgrades you should have some config file management, but on the other hand this is really ugly.  Of course if someone worked on this it would be great, but I am leaning towards saying what we have is good enough and this should be a blueprint for the future.00:44
lifelessshort term I think we have bigger fish to fry00:52
lifelesslong term, nova should do it all internally00:52
lifelessthere is no reason nova can't know what versions are around and just pick the most conservative00:52
jog0lifeless: agreed00:53
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rpodolyaka1morning tripleo06:48
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openstackgerritVictor Sergeyev proposed a change to openstack/python-tuskarclient: Use common Manager from Oslo code  https://review.openstack.org/6411609:57
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SpamapSjog0: I agree with lifeless, RPC version discovery is entirely automatable. However I also think the "upgrade works without changing config file" is a _ridiculous_ requirement.17:39
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* jog0 files a nova blueprint for Juno19:07
lifelessSpamapS: why do you think it's ridiculous?19:15
openstackgerritRoman Podoliaka proposed a change to openstack/tripleo-image-elements: Enable mysqld service in mysql element  https://review.openstack.org/6419019:16
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jog0feedback welcome: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/automatic-rpc-upgrade-levels-discovery19:26
jog0lifeless: related grenade nova-compute work that brought this question up https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-dev/grenade+branch:master+topic:nova-compute,n,z19:29
SpamapSlifeless: because software + config == deployment in my head. They move forward together.19:29
jog0SpamapS: so that stance made a lot more sense before we had the official openstack deployment project19:30
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SpamapSjog0: the OpenStack deployment program makes that stance even simpler to support. Our deployment tool can enable configuration changes in lock-step with software changes.19:31
jog0we (openstack) couldn't say make deployment more complex because everyone was rolling there own at that time19:31
jog0SpamapS: I'm agreeing with you19:31
jog0SpamapS: I previously meant the stance that no config file change needed19:32
SpamapSahh ok right19:32
SpamapSbut even calling that "more complex" .. is confusing to me.19:32
SpamapSI just think of it as the same thing. You have to configure things that you deploy.19:33
jog0SpamapS: one side efect of this policy (no config change needed) is we get better backwards compatibility -- but there are other ways of doing that19:34
jog0anyway I don't have a strong opinion on this .. nor do I want to develop one19:35
SpamapSwell I don't think we should _break_ on an older config without a good reason. But the recent example of Cinder breaking because it had no valid lock dir.. there is no good answer. You now need a place to write locks. You didn't before. There is no secure way to handle it.19:36
lifelessSpamapS: you could downgrade to the older behaviour, even if that was undefined.19:36
lifelessSpamapS: I agree that software+config = deployment, *but*19:37
lifelessSpamapS: The less complected separate things are (pushing software out, delivering config) the better...19:37
SpamapSlifeless: the old behavior is things not happening in parallel that now happen in parallel.19:37
SpamapSlifeless: that basically means downgrading to "the old version of cinder"19:38
lifelessSpamapS: right, so degrade to single threaded in the absence of a lockdir, in the cinder code.19:38
lifelessSpamapS: I'm not saying it's *worth* doing, I'm saying it's *doable*.19:38
lifelessSpamapS: in particular, for config, consider dynamic config systems like 'feature flags' - a hard requirement I put on their design was that they be super loosely defined, with semantics in the code that uses them, and that said code had to work when the flag was undefined.19:39
SpamapSlifeless: I don't think it is complecting things, it is just a dependency chain. Lock dir must be created, and available, before icehouse software will work. It also needs a newer version of python libs x, y, and z.19:39
lifelessSpamapS: This meant that pushing the software out and then enabling stuff was decoupled, and we didn't ever have to make a large atomic step to do both things.19:39
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jog0I think some of these questions become easier to answer when we can point and say this is how we support change x in tripleo19:41
lifelessjog0: ack19:41
lifelessSpamapS: I think you are defining 'config' too narrowly for this conversation - last mile per-node config matches what you describe19:42
lifelessSpamapS: the broader sense of 'things that can be changed without changing the code' exceeds it19:42
lifelessSpamapS: But ignore that for a second, whats up with your stack - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/63642/ hasn't changed :)19:43
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SpamapSlifeless: EREALLIFE ;)20:04
SpamapSlifeless: also I ran into https://bugs.launchpad.net/tripleo/+bug/1264349 which made me have to rebuild my whole devtest again.. distracted ..20:04
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1264349 in tripleo "seed DHCP does not recover from shutdown" [Medium,Triaged]20:04
SpamapSand now we're off to venice beach for a pretzel/beer/sand-play20:05
SpamapSlifeless: I do have a patch but it is entirely untested20:05
openstackgerritClint "SpamapS" Byrum proposed a change to openstack/tripleo-image-elements: Restart mysql during o-r-c post-configure  https://review.openstack.org/6369920:06
openstackgerritClint "SpamapS" Byrum proposed a change to openstack/tripleo-image-elements: Use mysql element in boot-stack  https://review.openstack.org/6364620:06
openstackgerritClint "SpamapS" Byrum proposed a change to openstack/tripleo-image-elements: Remove any accidental extra /etc/my.cnf  https://review.openstack.org/6364520:06
openstackgerritClint "SpamapS" Byrum proposed a change to openstack/tripleo-image-elements: Remove obsolete haveged and clean-apt from mysql  https://review.openstack.org/6364320:06
openstackgerritClint "SpamapS" Byrum proposed a change to openstack/tripleo-image-elements: Add ephemeral state preservation support to mysql  https://review.openstack.org/6364220:06
openstackgerritClint "SpamapS" Byrum proposed a change to openstack/tripleo-image-elements: Make mysql.create-users section optional  https://review.openstack.org/6406520:06
openstackgerritClint "SpamapS" Byrum proposed a change to openstack/tripleo-image-elements: Initialize underlying database files  https://review.openstack.org/6396620:06
openstackgerritClint "SpamapS" Byrum proposed a change to openstack/tripleo-image-elements: Remove mysql debian-sys-maint user  https://review.openstack.org/6406420:06
SpamapSthere.. updated stack with fixed apport .. but may be totally bong.. haven't actually tested it20:06
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lifelessSpamapS: thanks20:34
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