| lifeless | cody-somerville: oh gawdm I need something i can park :P | 00:00 |
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| mikal | lifeless: parking spots are bigger there... Get a Sienna. | 00:02 |
| lifeless | mikal: whats that ? | 00:03 |
| lifeless | mikal: and they aren't in the seattle office | 00:03 |
| lifeless | bah | 00:03 |
| lifeless | sunnyvale office | 00:03 |
| mikal | The Toyota Sienna is a type of minivan | 00:04 |
| lifeless | ah | 00:04 |
| lifeless | so no, not getting a minivan | 00:05 |
| lifeless | if we want to optimise vehicles, a couple of sedans should be fine | 00:05 |
| mikal | Fine, then get a VW Eos Convertible. Petrol Turbo. Avis has them. | 00:07 |
| StevenK | lifeless: Can you put more detail into https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1272623 ? | 00:16 |
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| lifeless | StevenK: what would you like added ? | 00:19 |
| StevenK | lifeless: Review comment from jog0 that its vague | 00:19 |
| lifeless | jog0: ^ | 00:20 |
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| StevenK | lifeless: So, if this actually works ... How does dropping to two fields help? | 01:47 |
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| lifeless | SpamapS_: oh hi | 01:55 |
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| Ng | morning | 09:04 |
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| Ng | maybe it's time for irc.openstack.org ;/ | 16:43 |
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| * jrist seconds nomination | 16:50 | |
| matty_dubs | +1. Though it sounds like they're under DDoS attack; I'd hate to invite that to the openstack.org network. | 16:52 |
| Ng | matty_dubs: worked for our git repos, for now :) | 16:52 |
| matty_dubs | :) | 16:52 |
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| SpamapS | Ng: what next? smtp.openstack.org? ssh.openstack.org? www.openstack.org... oh | 16:53 |
| matty_dubs | OpenStack on all the things! | 16:54 |
| matty_dubs | Actually, I guess it's more the other way around | 16:54 |
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| SpamapS | matty_dubs: cross eyed yet? ;) | 16:55 |
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| SpamapS | that would be a good t-shirt actually | 16:55 |
| SpamapS | a mobius strip that just says OpenStack on All the things on[repeat] | 16:55 |
| matty_dubs | Ooh, nice! | 16:56 |
| matty_dubs | Too bad I have zero graphic skills | 16:56 |
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| SpamapS | yeah me too | 16:56 |
| SpamapS | thats why we loves us some CLI | 16:56 |
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| bnemec | ascii art t-shirt ftw! ;-) | 17:02 |
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| Ng | SpamapS: we could just fork the whole internet | 17:09 |
| Ng | www.hp.openstack | 17:09 |
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| SpamapS | bnemec: heh, were you not in HK to see my o/ t-shirt? ;) | 17:14 |
| SpamapS | bnemec: but really, if you can do a mobius strip in ascii art.. respect. | 17:14 |
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| bnemec | SpamapS: Didn't make it to HK so I missed that. :-) | 17:17 |
| bnemec | I suspect I could render a mobius strip in OpenGL faster than I could do it in ascii art. :-) | 17:17 |
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| derekh | has the ci-overcloud vanished ? | 17:31 |
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| cd-undercloud | ************** overcloud complete status=1 ************ | 18:01 |
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| * Ng out for a bit, bbl | 18:05 | |
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| SnowDust | hello all : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70769/ | 18:14 |
| SpamapS | SnowDust: looking | 18:16 |
| matty_dubs | win 5 | 18:16 |
| matty_dubs | Oops, sorry O:-) | 18:16 |
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| SpamapS | SnowDust: what platform is that on btw? | 18:17 |
| SnowDust | tx ! maty_dubs | 18:17 |
| SnowDust | SpamapS it was from ubuntu | 18:20 |
| SnowDust | do u mean something else as "platform" ? | 18:20 |
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| SpamapS | SnowDust: no thats what I meant. :) | 18:23 |
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| SpamapS | SnowDust: just wanting to try and repeat the problem :) | 18:25 |
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| SpamapS | SnowDust: ok, yeah confirmed. | 18:30 |
| SnowDust | SpamapS : tx ! | 18:30 |
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| SnowDust | jewel of a bug :D | 18:30 |
| SpamapS | SnowDust: I +2'd already, so we just need one of the other cores to do so | 18:30 |
| SpamapS | SnowDust: these are common, because we almost never build heat-cfntools alone | 18:31 |
| lifeless | morning | 18:32 |
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| lifeless | we should add a test to do that | 18:32 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: ... I suggested that almost a year ago! | 18:33 |
| slagle | openstack bot seems to be taking the day off | 18:33 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: in fact I wrote that test. | 18:34 |
| SpamapS | Trouble is it would take a long long time | 18:34 |
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| SpamapS | just doing the disk-image-create -u -a i386 ubuntu --offline takes a minute even with a warm squid | 18:35 |
| SpamapS | hm, we always install build-essential.. | 18:36 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: sure, but lets say we had that all teed up, we could do 25 such builds while tempest ran | 18:36 |
| SpamapS | real1m41.569s | 18:36 |
| SpamapS | user0m43.760s | 18:36 |
| SpamapS | sys0m31.737s | 18:36 |
| devananda | lifeless: g'morning! | 18:37 |
| lifeless | ci-overcloud not responding, toggling eth2 link | 18:37 |
| lifeless | uhhhhhh | 18:37 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: is it just me, or did cd-undercloud stop having mellanox hiccups? | 18:37 |
| lifeless | someone deleted the ci-overcloud stck | 18:37 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: ^ ? | 18:37 |
| SpamapS | nooo | 18:37 |
| SpamapS | I haven't been on there | 18:37 |
| lifeless | hmm, stack is there, nova machines are not | 18:38 |
| lifeless | oh well | 18:38 |
| SpamapS | 2014-02-02 07:00:33,756.756 17655 DEBUG nova.network.neutronv2.api [-] get_instance_nw_info() for ci-overcloud-notcompute-7sdhmmrtddid _get_instance_nw_info /opt/stack/venvs/nova/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/nova/network/neutronv2/api.py:445 | 18:39 |
| SpamapS | actually most recent mention is here | 18:39 |
| SpamapS | 2014-02-03 00:06:52,269.269 17655 DEBUG nova.network.neutronv2.api [req-64a4cfce-d5d4-44c6-aaf8-5bc18dc75b0d 2de96ce5da9 | 18:39 |
| SpamapS | 94575a08447c93bcafd53 4956c533154c476799c688eda7ed65ab] deallocate_for_instance() for ci-overcloud-NovaCompute0-mgxm2t2v | 18:39 |
| SpamapS | 5tcw deallocate_for_instance /opt/stack/venvs/nova/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/nova/network/neutronv2/api.py:387 | 18:40 |
| lifeless | I will be so embarassed if I did it | 18:40 |
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| SpamapS | that is 18 hrs ago | 18:40 |
| lifeless | so middayish yesterday my local time | 18:40 |
| lifeless | most likely I did | 18:40 |
| lifeless | so, I know what I'm doing to day. | 18:40 |
| lifeless | how many nodes to give it? I'm going to go with 20. | 18:41 |
| SpamapS | boss | 18:42 |
| SpamapS | as in, "thats boss" | 18:42 |
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| SnowDust | SpamapS, lifeless : tx ! for my first tripleo commit | 18:45 |
| lifeless | devananda: morning! | 18:47 |
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| lifeless | jog0: hi | 18:51 |
| lifeless | jog0: you said the bug StevenK was working on was very vague | 18:51 |
| jog0 | lifeless: o/ | 18:51 |
| jog0 | lifeless: yeah its just a stacktrace | 18:51 |
| lifeless | jog0: its pretty precise to me; what would you like to know more about, with respect to it. | 18:51 |
| jog0 | or it was | 18:51 |
| jog0 | context | 18:51 |
| lifeless | jog0: it also has a title, and the two combine will let you reproduce the bug | 18:51 |
| jog0 | also while I think the change is reasonable this is an API behavior change | 18:52 |
| jog0 | err not API | 18:52 |
| lifeless | jog0: what do you mean by context? I'm sorry if I'm missing something here :) - its excruciatingly clear to me when reading that stacktrace + the source at the same time | 18:52 |
| jog0 | lifeless: whats teh bug # again | 18:52 |
| lifeless | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/69108/ is the change | 18:53 |
| lifeless | Closes-Bug: #1272623 | 18:53 |
| lifeless | jog0: also - I've just commented in reply to your concern about removing a means to recover vms - 'I'd hardly call 'restart nova-compute' as a tool for *end users* to recover VMs: the only people that can restart nova-compute are the cloud operators. | 18:54 |
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| jog0 | so bug questions: how does this happen ,s this bug only a nova bm bug? | 18:54 |
| jog0 | because the fix isn't justbm code | 18:55 |
| jog0 | lifeless: so I assume this bug was hit because you have resume VMs on nova-copute start | 18:56 |
| jog0 | compute | 18:56 |
| jog0 | but that is just implied | 18:56 |
| jog0 | that doesn't mean a user won't try restarting an errored VM | 18:58 |
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| jog0 | from what I understand that patch says 'don't even try to boot an errored VM' and I want to know is, are we sure that is the case. I think it is but am not sure | 19:02 |
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| lifeless | jog0: https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1272623/comments/3 | 19:02 |
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| lifeless | jog0: _init_instance is called unconditionally from init_host() | 19:04 |
| lifeless | jog0: there is no config option to disable it that I can see | 19:04 |
| lifeless | jog0: line 819 of manager.py | 19:04 |
| lifeless | jog0: I am entirely happy if a user attempts to boot a VM that is in state ERROR and the request barfs | 19:05 |
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| lifeless | jog0: I'm not happy with nova-compute failing to startup because it does that itself in it's own context. | 19:05 |
| jog0 | lifeless: #resume_guests_state_on_host_boot=false | 19:05 |
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| lifeless | jog0: right, defaults false, and we run defaults | 19:05 |
| jog0 | wait wat | 19:05 |
| jog0 | so that doesn'tw ork? | 19:05 |
| lifeless | jog0: and where we can't we raise them to the list for discussion. | 19:06 |
| lifeless | we have not raised them to the list | 19:06 |
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| jog0 | so I agree that nova shouldn't try to start a failed VM but a use can | 19:06 |
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| lifeless | so we do not have that option exposed. | 19:07 |
| lifeless | Thus this is happening with that set to the default, false. | 19:07 |
| lifeless | File "/opt/stack/venvs/nova/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/nova/compute/manager.py", line 684, in _init_instance | 19:07 |
| lifeless | self.driver.plug_vifs(instance, net_info) | 19:07 |
| lifeless | from the backtrace | 19:07 |
| lifeless | the conf check is on line 736 | 19:08 |
| jog0 | derp, _init_instance is only run during service init | 19:08 |
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| jog0 | so yes patch LGTM | 19:08 |
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| cd-undercloud | ************** overcloud complete status=1 ************ | 19:08 |
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| lifeless | we have a bunch of other things like RESIZE_MIGRATING restorations that are unconditional | 19:08 |
| lifeless | thank you :) | 19:08 |
| lifeless | jog0: could you help finda second +2 for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/69060/3 ? | 19:09 |
| lifeless | thats critical | 19:09 |
| lifeless | since rebuild does nae work without it | 19:10 |
| lifeless | sadface cd-overcloud | 19:10 |
| jog0 | can you file a bug about #resume_guests_state_on_host_boot=false | 19:10 |
| lifeless | Waiting for the overcloud stack to be ready | 19:10 |
| lifeless | Timing out after 2200 seconds: | 19:10 |
| lifeless | jog0: what should the bug say ? It does work. | 19:10 |
| lifeless | jog0: I think you should go through _init_instance with a fine tooth comb, and from there decide whether #resume_guests_state_on_host_boot=false should be broader, or that work is infact needed always. | 19:12 |
| lifeless | jog0: my current assessment is that this is housekeeping; perhaps we should do it async post-startup instead of inline with startup. | 19:12 |
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| jog0 | lifeless: I misunderstood, #resume_guests_state_on_host_boot=false wo | 19:14 |
| jog0 | rks? | 19:14 |
| SpamapS | SnowDust: you're welcome, and thank you :) | 19:15 |
| lifeless | jog0: there are many states a VM can be in | 19:16 |
| jog0 | lifeless: ack | 19:17 |
| jog0 | now I see | 19:17 |
| lifeless | jog0: for the specific case of 'DB says running, hypervisor says no', #resume_guests_state_on_host_boot=false causes nova to resume the VM on nova startup | 19:17 |
| lifeless | jog0: setting it to True, that is. | 19:18 |
| lifeless | jog0: other states like RESIZE_MIGRATING are orthogonal and not controlled by that option. | 19:18 |
| lifeless | but this is all done inline with startup - I think its a massive bug that we do it there. | 19:18 |
| lifeless | we should get nova up and running | 19:19 |
| lifeless | first | 19:19 |
| lifeless | and then do this stuff from regular worker contexts | 19:19 |
| jog0 | lifeless: sounds like two bugs: 1) clarify help message for resume_guests_state_on_hostboot | 19:20 |
| jog0 | 2) uninline this | 19:20 |
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| jog0 | first is low hanging fruit | 19:20 |
| lifeless | jog0: it does | 19:20 |
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| jog0 | what does what? | 19:21 |
| jog0 | lifeless: I am in the middle of a a few things | 19:25 |
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| lifeless | jog0: it does sound like two bugs | 19:31 |
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| lifeless | has anyone booted an overcloud recently ? | 19:36 |
| lifeless | Waiting for the overcloud stack to be ready | 19:36 |
| lifeless | Timing out after 2200 seconds: | 19:36 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: I booted end to end devtest last on Thursday | 19:41 |
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| lifeless | on next tripleo-cd failure will stop it | 19:54 |
| lifeless | for post mortem | 19:54 |
| greghaynes | my stack-create overcloud just kicked off from a new end-end | 19:56 |
| greghaynes | So should know something in <2200 sec :_ | 19:57 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: I need some reviews please | 19:57 |
| lifeless | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/tripleo-ci,n,z and https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/tripleo-image-elements,n,z and https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/tripleo-incubator,n,z in general | 19:58 |
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| lifeless | I'm looking for a volunteer to own https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70252/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70239/ | 20:01 |
| lifeless | 70239 in particular will make a huge difference to neutron gate reliability | 20:01 |
| lifeless | whats needed is to figure out why grenade is failing (current theory is that nova-compute is exiting hard without warning, based on the log file stopping about 10m before the test finishes | 20:02 |
| greghaynes | nova list is empty for my overcloud while heat stack-create overcloud is running... not a good sign | 20:02 |
| lifeless | for your undercloud ? | 20:04 |
| greghaynes | er right, nova list for undercloud | 20:05 |
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| lifeless | yeah, thats a bad sign | 20:09 |
| lifeless | I think thats what I'm seeing too | 20:09 |
| lifeless | anything in heat event-list overcloud ? | 20:09 |
| greghaynes | os-collect-config failing on an iptables rule | 20:09 |
| greghaynes | -i isnt getting interface argument | 20:10 |
| greghaynes | I think I remember seeing messing with interface vars in a recent review? | 20:11 |
| lifeless | bbs, C-> kindy | 20:11 |
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| cd-undercloud | ************** overcloud complete status=1 ************ | 20:15 |
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| greghaynes | hrm.. os_collect_config.cfn [-] 403 Client Error: AccessDenied | 20:29 |
| greghaynes | not sure if red herring | 20:30 |
| greghaynes | also, lunch | 20:30 |
| lifeless | no instances spawned is a little bad :) | 20:30 |
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| greghaynes | ive narrowed it down to when I export export OS_CONFIG_FILES=/var/lib/os-collect-config/heat_local.json the I get an empty string from os-apply-config --key neutron.ovs.physical_bridge --type raw --key-default ' | 20:31 |
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| greghaynes | I think I need to actually learn a bit about how os-apply-config works to debug more though :) | 20:32 |
| lifeless | occ calls orc calls oac | 20:32 |
| lifeless | the occ error is the key one | 20:33 |
| greghaynes | gotcha | 20:33 |
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| lifeless | SpamapS: so yeah - can has lots of reviews please :) | 20:47 |
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| SpamapS | lifeless: indeed | 21:20 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/tripleo-ci: Provide for adding a string to /etc/hosts. https://review.openstack.org/70304 | 21:22 |
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| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack/tripleo-incubator: Stop sourcing devtest_undercloud. https://review.openstack.org/69797 | 21:23 |
| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack/tripleo-incubator: When debugging setup-endpoints set -x as well. https://review.openstack.org/70846 | 21:24 |
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| jprovazn | Anyone has seen following error? If undercloud tries to etch heat metadata from seed, it fails with "Could not find credential...": http://paste.openstack.org/show/62403/ | 21:32 |
| slagle | jprovazn: yea, how old is your seed? there was a heat bug, but it's been fixed | 21:34 |
| jprovazn | slagle, built few hours ago | 21:34 |
| jprovazn | slagle, yes - I remember a bug fixed in heat client a week ago, but I have this merged I believe | 21:35 |
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| slagle | jprovazn: ok. not sure then :) | 21:36 |
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| jprovazn | slagle, thanks anyway | 21:36 |
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| lifeless | greghaynes: undercloud build-deploy worked for me | 21:45 |
| lifeless | greghaynes: whats the iptables error you see ? | 21:45 |
| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack/tripleo-image-elements: Add a helper to deploy testenvironments. https://review.openstack.org/70285 | 21:45 |
| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack/tripleo-image-elements: os-config-applier->os-apply-config for Neutron https://review.openstack.org/70640 | 21:45 |
| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack/tripleo-image-elements: Permit injecting entries into /etc/hosts. https://review.openstack.org/70307 | 21:45 |
| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack/tripleo-image-elements: Permit setting ml2 flat networks in Neutron. https://review.openstack.org/70645 | 21:45 |
| greghaynes | When running os-collect-config --force --one I get error when it runs: iptables -t nat -I PREROUTING -d 169.254.169.254/32 -i -p tcp .... due to not getting a val for $EXTERNAL_BRIDGE | 21:48 |
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| SpamapS_ | Right this is the thing where we don't persist os-collect-config stuff | 21:49 |
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| greghaynes | That val is set by os-apply-config --key neutron.ovs.physical_bridge --type raw --key-default '', which works fine if I run it from shell in undercloud, just not from occ | 21:49 |
| greghaynes | hrm? | 21:49 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/tripleo-image-elements: Fix editing of systemd files on openSUSE https://review.openstack.org/69863 | 21:50 |
| SpamapS | greghaynes: oh, it works at cmdline but not in OCC? | 21:50 |
| greghaynes | Yep | 21:50 |
| SpamapS | thats odd | 21:50 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: occ is getting a 403 I think | 21:51 |
| lifeless | greghaynes: ^ ? | 21:51 |
| SpamapS | 403 but it won't remove the existing cfn.json | 21:51 |
| SpamapS | which I presume is where os-apply-config is getting that key | 21:51 |
| SpamapS | oh | 21:51 |
| SpamapS | the list might be editted | 21:51 |
| greghaynes | Yep, when I export OS_CONFIG_FILES=/var/lib/os-collect-config/heat_local.json it stops working | 21:51 |
| greghaynes | so that file was supposed to get rm'd? | 21:51 |
| SpamapS | no | 21:52 |
| lifeless | no | 21:52 |
| greghaynes | haha | 21:52 |
| lifeless | there can be multiple files | 21:52 |
| lifeless | different sources | 21:52 |
| lifeless | unioned together | 21:52 |
| SpamapS | halfway around the world.. we were in sync somewhere over fiji I think ;) | 21:52 |
| greghaynes | There are 403's in the occ.log | 21:52 |
| SpamapS | sure, that is a problem no doubt | 21:53 |
| greghaynes | :) | 21:53 |
| SpamapS | just weird that somehow os-apply-config is finding the value | 21:53 |
| SpamapS | greghaynes: what does /var/lib/os-collect-config/os_config_files.json have in it? | 21:54 |
| lifeless | slagle: for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/69797/ | 21:54 |
| lifeless | slagle: I am confused | 21:55 |
| lifeless | slagle: AIUI you have an issue with a review comment in a different review | 21:55 |
| greghaynes | ["/var/lib/os-collect-config/heat_local.json", "/var/lib/os-collect-config/ec2.json", "/var/lib/os-collect-config/cfn.json"] | 21:55 |
| lifeless | slagle: I don't understand how it makes https://review.openstack.org/#/c/69797/ broken? | 21:55 |
| slagle | lifeless: b/c what your recommending in the other review, introduces an issue with 69797 | 21:56 |
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| slagle | lifeless: so mainly, I want to figure out what the right fix is for 67535 before we start adding new stuff that simpley compounds the issue | 21:57 |
| slagle | like what's done in 69797. that's why -1 and commented there | 21:58 |
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| slagle | our docs are broken around TE_DATAFILE right now. let's fix that before committing new changes that add more brokeness | 21:59 |
| slagle | lifeless: i also commented in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/67535/ . with a proposed fix | 22:00 |
| lifeless | slagle: I don't understand how its broken | 22:00 |
| lifeless | slagle: functionally, not docs - | 22:00 |
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| lifeless | devtest.sh --existing-environment + a TE_DATAFILE setting the user chooses, will work. | 22:01 |
| lifeless | I don't *like* it like that | 22:01 |
| lifeless | because I want to make it explicit | 22:01 |
| lifeless | but | 22:01 |
| lifeless | we kindof need that to work regardless for the te-broker | 22:01 |
| slagle | lifeless: yea, it's just the docs that are broken afaik | 22:03 |
| lifeless | slagle: can you point me at the bit thats broken | 22:03 |
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| lifeless | 67535 just seems 100% unneeded. | 22:03 |
| SpamapS | greghaynes: ok, so os-apply-config should be picking that file up and using it.. perhaps when occ runs, it is running with OS_CONFIG_FILES=.../ec2.json:.../cfn.json .. | 22:04 |
| lifeless | and there is no bug open describing the issue | 22:04 |
| slagle | lifeless: sure, look at http://docs.openstack.org/developer/tripleo-incubator/devtest_testenv.html | 22:04 |
| slagle | last step on the page | 22:04 |
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| SpamapS | greghaynes: or rather, without the cfn.json | 22:04 |
| slagle | lifeless: $JSONFILE is never defined, yet we tell you to use it | 22:04 |
| lifeless | slagle: righto - so I suggested a fix for that which is to just tell the user to pick a path. | 22:05 |
| slagle | lifeless: that's why the first patchset in the change was just s/JSONFILE/TE_DATAFILE | 22:05 |
| slagle | lifeless: ok, let's say they just pick a path | 22:05 |
| slagle | lifeless: everywhere in the docs now (like the new stuff you're introducing in 69797) we need to say "use the path you picked" | 22:06 |
| slagle | instead of $TE_DATAFILE | 22:06 |
| lifeless | slagle: if they are running by hand | 22:06 |
| slagle | yes | 22:06 |
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| lifeless | slagle: that seems entirely appropriate, particularly once we fix up seed etc to take it as a parameter | 22:07 |
| slagle | i'm coming from the position of making the docs be correct, just as much as the functional script :) | 22:07 |
| greghaynes | SpamapS: Do you know where it gets the reference to os_config_files.json from? Is it just $OS_CONFIG_FILES? | 22:07 |
| lifeless | slagle: I appreciate - and applaud! - that | 22:07 |
| slagle | lifeless: so, my point was that, if we are going to orchestrate the whole thing with TE_DATAFILE, just tell the user to set it at the beginning in the docs (which we already do) | 22:07 |
| lifeless | slagle: my point is that from a functional perspective ben's change doesn't fix anything. Here's why: | 22:07 |
| lifeless | - if people are running by hand, they have an environment with TE_DATAFILE defined already and so the line in devtest.sh where they call into the child is precisely what they need | 22:08 |
| lifeless | - if people are running via automation, we know that already works | 22:08 |
| lifeless | slagle: I think we have a different doc bug here. | 22:09 |
| lifeless | slagle: devtest.sh itself is now non-trivial (as we fix the ugly source-the-world) but we haven't kept it's docs up to date. | 22:09 |
| slagle | lifeless: devtest.sh isn't itself doc'd. the docs don't say run "devtest_testenv $TE_DATAFILE" | 22:09 |
| lifeless | slagle: thats what I just said | 22:10 |
| slagle | err, ok. not sure i got that | 22:10 |
| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack/tripleo-incubator: Minor syntax cleanup in devtest.sh. https://review.openstack.org/70857 | 22:11 |
| SpamapS | greghaynes: it has magical knowledge of the default location (We've talked about removing that actually. ;) | 22:12 |
| lifeless | slagle: gimme a second | 22:12 |
| greghaynes | ah | 22:12 |
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| lifeless | slagle: there ^ | 22:18 |
| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack/tripleo-incubator: Reintegrate devtest actions with docs. https://review.openstack.org/70860 | 22:18 |
| slagle | lifeless: looking | 22:20 |
| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack/tripleo-incubator: Don't source devtest_end.sh. https://review.openstack.org/70861 | 22:21 |
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| slagle | lifeless: do you intend that people that are following along manually are going to run the devtest* scripts? or the individual commands? | 22:25 |
| lifeless | slagle: seems to me that we're evolving abstractions here | 22:25 |
| lifeless | slagle: I wouldn't expect them to e.g. run setup-endpoints internal commands by hand | 22:25 |
| lifeless | slagle: I don't know quite where we want to draw boundaries, but it seems reasonable to me to e.g. want to bootstrap without thinking about it but then fiddle with the undercloud definition | 22:26 |
| lifeless | or get the undercloud up and then want to fiddle with the overcloud internals | 22:26 |
| slagle | ok, well, that's quite a departure from what we've had | 22:27 |
| slagle | hence the confusion | 22:27 |
| lifeless | slagle: I'm adlibbing here in response to the discussion we're having | 22:28 |
| lifeless | slagle: moving away from source has been a thing for months though, this is I think fallout | 22:28 |
| bnemec | So we'd stop doc'ing devtest_testenv.sh and say "Run devtest_testenv.sh $SOME_PATH"? | 22:28 |
| slagle | lifeless: i just don't think the docs are going to make sense like that | 22:29 |
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| slagle | lifeless: you lose the ability to set your environment manually | 22:30 |
| lifeless | bnemec: I think we document both - see the patch set up above | 22:30 |
| slagle | which, I think has some value | 22:30 |
| lifeless | slagle: huh? | 22:30 |
| slagle | lifeless: well, devtest_testenv is still broken | 22:30 |
| slagle | b/c of....$JSONFILE | 22:31 |
| slagle | so is the intent you should be able to copy/paste the commands on devtest_testenv.html? b/c that's not going to work | 22:31 |
| bnemec | lifeless: Ah, I think the IRC entries are out of order on my end. You mean https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70860/ ? | 22:32 |
| bnemec | I was confused what your there ^ was referring to and was looking at the wrong change. :-) | 22:33 |
| lifeless | I mean 860 yes | 22:33 |
| lifeless | slagle: so we need to surface more of the contract? | 22:34 |
| bnemec | We need to at least mention that JSONFILE comes from $1 or the doc makes no sense without reading the raw script itself. | 22:34 |
| bnemec | (IMO) | 22:35 |
| slagle | lifeless: we would have to add a line (that gets doc'd) to devtest_testenv.sh that says to: export JSONFILE=$TE_DATAFILE | 22:36 |
| lifeless | slagle: why export? | 22:36 |
| lifeless | slagle: also it gets set to $1 - and the person running through this by hand can *see* $1. | 22:37 |
| slagle | lifeless: forget export then. we just need to tell them to set it | 22:38 |
| slagle | lifeless: can you generate the docs for 70860 and tell me where it says that JSONFILE is $1? | 22:39 |
| slagle | i don't see any references to JSONFILE until you try to do a " > $JSONFILE" | 22:39 |
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| lifeless | bnemec: I agree, we need to mention that | 22:40 |
| lifeless | slagle: ^ | 22:40 |
| lifeless | slagle: my thrust here is very simple - I want testenv to be hermetic and not dependent on any variables it doesn't have to be. | 22:41 |
| lifeless | because we're about to start using it to generate the test environments in the CI workers | 22:41 |
| lifeless | e.g. its mid being extracted as a independent thing | 22:41 |
| lifeless | so lets document it | 22:42 |
| lifeless | and make sure its clear and understandable | 22:42 |
| lifeless | but lets -not- re-complect it | 22:42 |
| slagle | lifeless: the docs need to say set JSONFILE to TE_DATAFILE then? | 22:44 |
| slagle | but that should not happen in the script itself | 22:44 |
| lifeless | slagle: they should say $1 no ? | 22:45 |
| slagle | when you're copy / pasting from that page, $1 is not defined | 22:45 |
| lifeless | slagle: but you start from devtest.html | 22:45 |
| lifeless | slagle: which will now include "devtest_testenv.sh $TE_DATAFILE | 22:45 |
| lifeless | " | 22:45 |
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| lifeless | slagle: Oh, specifically copy-pasting. I just had a bug report today from internal folk that copy-paste copies unicode quotes | 22:46 |
| lifeless | slagle: and thus breaks | 22:46 |
| slagle | i asked earlier, do you intend people to be able to copy/paste from any page other than devtest.html? | 22:47 |
| slagle | it sounds like no | 22:47 |
| lifeless | slagle: I'm not sure. What do you think? | 22:47 |
| slagle | i don't think the docs are very useful as-is if you can't | 22:48 |
| slagle | b/c they don't make sense | 22:48 |
| slagle | there's a difference between follow these steps manually by copy/pasting vs. this is documentation for a script | 22:48 |
| lifeless | vs deconstruction of a script | 22:49 |
| lifeless | which arguably is what we have | 22:49 |
| slagle | right. if the intent is not to have something copy/pasteable, we should stop generating them such | 22:49 |
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| slagle | b/c it's making life difficult | 22:49 |
| slagle | to me, it sounds like we are really moving away from that (the copy/paste) | 22:51 |
| lifeless | slagle: mmm | 22:51 |
| slagle | which is, arguably, ok, given how complex it's become | 22:51 |
| lifeless | so that isn't my intent | 22:51 |
| lifeless | my intent is more to make each unit be quite isolated | 22:51 |
| lifeless | e.g. it should depend on working nova credentials + an environment definition | 22:52 |
| lifeless | + eventually some sort of profile thing to say stuff like | 22:52 |
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| lifeless | fedora vs ubuntu | 22:52 |
| lifeless | ceph vs glusterfs | 22:52 |
| lifeless | qpidd vs rabbitmq | 22:52 |
| lifeless | I really like the copy-paste aspect | 22:54 |
| lifeless | even if its not 100% reliable, it (IMO - perhaps we need to validate this) makes the system approachable | 22:54 |
| SpamapS | I like the copy paste bit btw | 22:54 |
| SpamapS | and so have many of our internal folk who have stepped through it | 22:54 |
| lifeless | I've pointed folk at the docs with quite a bit of success | 22:54 |
| lifeless | even though it doesn't work 100% as-is | 22:54 |
| slagle | lifeless: so for someone who is copy/pasting, why can't we tell people to set JSONFILE to TE_DATAFILE on the devtest_testenv page? | 22:55 |
| lifeless | so, I like the idea of keeping it | 22:55 |
| slagle | that's really the point of this whole issue | 22:55 |
| slagle | there is no $1 for copy/pasters | 22:55 |
| bnemec | "The value for JSONFILE is left as an exercise for the reader." Done. :-) | 22:55 |
| lifeless | bnemec: et voila | 22:55 |
| slagle | except it's not | 22:55 |
| slagle | b/c we expect that json dict to be in TE_DATAFILE later on | 22:56 |
| lifeless | in a somewhat hostile way it is :) | 22:56 |
| bnemec | That's basically what it is right now. | 22:56 |
| lifeless | because all the information needed to infer that is given to them | 22:56 |
| lifeless | '## TE_DATAFILE should specify where you want your test environment JSON | 22:56 |
| lifeless | ## file created. (A default value is set in devtest_variables.sh). | 22:56 |
| lifeless | ' | 22:56 |
| lifeless | etc | 22:56 |
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| lifeless | so | 22:59 |
| lifeless | I think we should document the $1 -> JSONFILE thing. | 22:59 |
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| lifeless | thats clearly a defect in the testenv script itself. | 22:59 |
| lifeless | The point about there being no $1 for copy-pasters is a good one. | 22:59 |
| lifeless | OTOH | 22:59 |
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| lifeless | if they are following the docs in 860 they will see the invocation and have chosen to recurse | 22:59 |
| lifeless | I think it's reasonable to expect them to understand that the arguments the script would have been run with should be translated to $1 $2 etc. | 23:00 |
| lifeless | Perhaps we can make a brief statement to that effect in devtest.html | 23:00 |
| lifeless | ? | 23:00 |
| slagle | ya know, if we just called the variable in devtest_testenv TE_DATAFILE instead of JSONFILE it would all just work wouldn't it? | 23:01 |
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| lifeless | slagle: except it would be re-complecting | 23:01 |
| lifeless | slagle: and I -really- have an issue with that | 23:02 |
| lifeless | which I'm clearly not articulating well | 23:02 |
| bnemec | I guess my big concern with that is there are multiple pages of docs between devtest and devtest_testenv if you step through the docs using the Next link. | 23:02 |
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| slagle | well, i don't think anyone is going to make the inference that "if i was executing this, I would have called this with $1 being foo, so when i read a page that says use the value for $1, i need to use foo" | 23:03 |
| lifeless | bnemec: isn't there a direct link with my new patch ? | 23:03 |
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| slagle | there is nothing not-complected about that | 23:03 |
| bnemec | lifeless: I would assume so, but people will still need to go through the steps in order their first time through, so they're likely to start at the first and click Next. | 23:04 |
| slagle | separate it instead. so that it works if you run the script, or if you copy/paste manually | 23:04 |
| bnemec | Or maybe that's just me because that's historically been the navigation method. | 23:04 |
| SpamapS | sorry, but why isn't any use of $1,$2, etc. put in nodoc sections? | 23:04 |
| SpamapS | Give it a good symbolic name, give that symbolic name a default in devtest_variables.. the user should be covered shouldn't they? | 23:05 |
| lifeless | bnemec: so on here | 23:05 |
| lifeless | bnemec: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/tripleo-incubator/devtest.html | 23:05 |
| slagle | SpamapS: that's exactly what i'm arguing for | 23:05 |
| lifeless | bnemec: under 'next steps' | 23:05 |
| lifeless | bnemec: my 860 patch puts the exact commands we run in there. | 23:05 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: I'm trying to undo the magic environment-variables-tie-it-all-together | 23:06 |
| bnemec | lifeless: Right, but say I'm running through these steps for the first time. I click the link to devtest_variables, run through those steps, get to the bottom of that file and see a "Next" link. | 23:06 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: but putting $1 in the docs is just wrong. | 23:06 |
| bnemec | I click it, run through the next page and do the same thing. | 23:06 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: Perhaps assign it a name in the docs | 23:07 |
| bnemec | Now I'm up to devtest_testenv and have completely forgotten how it was called from devtest. | 23:07 |
| SpamapS | doesn't have to be an exported variable in devtest_variables.sh then | 23:07 |
| bnemec | Sure, I can go back and look, but I think it's awkward to do that. | 23:07 |
| SpamapS | Agreed, it should be a fluid process. | 23:07 |
| bnemec | I guess the question is: why are we setting TE_DATAFILE if we don't want to use it? | 23:08 |
| SpamapS | and just giving it a name in each place it is used as $1 would do that. | 23:08 |
| slagle | yea, i don't understand the desire to not use TE_DATAFILE in devtest_testenv, but have it required in the other devtest_* scripts | 23:09 |
| slagle | why does devtest_testenv have to call it JSONFILE? | 23:10 |
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| openstackgerrit | Jason E. Rist proposed a change to openstack/tuskar-ui: Rename Openstack to OpenStack https://review.openstack.org/70480 | 23:15 |
| jrist | fascinating | 23:16 |
| lifeless | sorry, have a brief call | 23:18 |
| lifeless | slagle: SpamapS: bnemec: TE_DATAFILE is an implementation detail of tripleo-ci's test broker. | 23:18 |
| lifeless | slagle: SpamapS: bnemec: I don't think it's a good idea to have it leak throughout our code | 23:19 |
| lifeless | layers should be, well, layers. | 23:19 |
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| lifeless | so summing up | 23:20 |
| lifeless | we all agree that copy/paste is nice | 23:20 |
| lifeless | we don't agree about whether it has to be 100% Just Work or rather a close approximation | 23:21 |
| bnemec | lifeless: Well, it's an implementation detail that's also a useful shorthand for people walking through the docs. | 23:21 |
| lifeless | we don't seem to agree with the complecting issue | 23:21 |
| bnemec | If we don't use it, we're going to end up with a bunch of doc references to "your testenv.json file" scattered all over instead. | 23:21 |
| lifeless | bnemec: I'd like to explore more ways to solve the $1 aspect | 23:22 |
| greghaynes | I think the suggestion was why not pass it in to all the scripts that need it and just use a consistent local name | 23:22 |
| lifeless | because I'm epxecting to have $1 and $2 on all of devtest_{seed,undercloud,overcloud} soonish | 23:22 |
| lifeless | greghaynes: thats the complecting issue that I'm pushing back on | 23:22 |
| lifeless | its poor isolation | 23:23 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: so at the top, have a block that sets symbolic names from $1/$2/$3 .. | 23:23 |
| greghaynes | ah, I misunderstood that as being the exports | 23:23 |
| SpamapS | I'm betting you'll do that anyway | 23:23 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: I suggested that | 23:23 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: bnemec is concerned that there is no good linkage from doc $X to devtest.html where the value to use for $X is visible | 23:24 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: ok, but where do you expect copy/pasters to get those values from? | 23:24 |
| lifeless | greghaynes: if the local name has to be consistent, its pretty much guaranteed that folk will get dependencies on the name matching in code somewhere. | 23:24 |
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| lifeless | SpamapS: so I was pointing out that we have docs that show the values (if my 70860 patch gets approved) | 23:25 |
| SpamapS | Expecting them to page back 4 pages doesn't seem like a good idea. | 23:25 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: I understand and don't disagree | 23:25 |
| SpamapS | Can we include a common section at the top? Or at least link from doc to doc? | 23:26 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: we could certainly link back to devtest.html | 23:26 |
| lifeless | 'Typically this is called from devtest - see :doc ....:' | 23:26 |
| SpamapS | Like a common section that just says "The variables X,Y,Z were set back in [link|devtest.html]"? | 23:26 |
| SpamapS | "This is called" ... not really the right context. | 23:27 |
| SpamapS | They're just reading instructions. | 23:27 |
| lifeless | it's almost like we really want the procedural 'run these bits' of devtest.sh to be spread out has a header of the things it calls | 23:27 |
| lifeless | the issue with that is that we can't source e.g. seedrc from devtest_undercloud.sh | 23:28 |
| lifeless | if we did, then you can't replace the earlier step with a custom one | 23:28 |
| lifeless | which we need for CI, and for use cases like 'skip undercloud please' | 23:28 |
| lifeless | we could put doc-only versions of them in the called scripts, as long as we're clear that they are typical-uses, not always-uses | 23:30 |
| bnemec | Heh, I was just about to suggest that. | 23:31 |
| bnemec | The inverse of #nodoc, basically. | 23:31 |
| lifeless | sure | 23:31 |
| lifeless | I'd be ok with that as long as we forward and backlink it | 23:31 |
| lifeless | to reduce chances of skew | 23:31 |
| lifeless | (e.g. XXX: if you change this also change devtest_overcloud's header) | 23:32 |
| lifeless | and XXX: if you change this also change devtest.sh's invocation | 23:32 |
| bnemec | Ah, right. | 23:32 |
| bnemec | So something like "JSONFILE=$TE_DATAFILE #doc-only" ? | 23:33 |
| bnemec | Not sure how that would be implemented... | 23:33 |
| SpamapS | um | 23:34 |
| lifeless | I think SpamapS meant | 23:34 |
| SpamapS | don't we have doc-only things? | 23:34 |
| lifeless | in devtest.sh - the forward link I mentioned. | 23:34 |
| SpamapS | they're... docs | 23:34 |
| lifeless | in devtest_testenv.sh | 23:34 |
| lifeless | ## This script is usually called from devtest.sh as | 23:35 |
| lifeless | ## devtest_testenv.sh $TE_DATAFILE | 23:35 |
| lifeless | XXX: if you change the above, also change the code in devtest.sh $nodocs | 23:35 |
| lifeless | s/$nodocs/#nodocs | 23:35 |
| lifeless | erm, plus a line like | 23:36 |
| bnemec | Yeah, I was thinking of making it show up as a command in the docs, but I'm probably overthinking it. | 23:36 |
| lifeless | ## $JSONFILE=$1 | 23:36 |
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| bnemec | That's still not copy-paste friendly though. | 23:36 |
| lifeless | you can do it entirely with copy paste | 23:36 |
| lifeless | you copy the $JSONFILE= bit | 23:37 |
| lifeless | and the $TE_DATAFILE bit | 23:37 |
| lifeless | :P | 23:37 |
| SpamapS | dude | 23:37 |
| SpamapS | so close | 23:37 |
| SpamapS | ;) | 23:37 |
| lifeless | so backing up a step | 23:38 |
| lifeless | there is a key change here that the copy-paste focus is missing | 23:38 |
| lifeless | which is that these are *separate scripts* | 23:38 |
| lifeless | you get *separate context* for that | 23:38 |
| lifeless | I think there is great value in being able to visually deconstruct everything | 23:39 |
| lifeless | though we should ask e.g. greghaynes or wendar_ or StevenK as recent victims^Wvolunteers whether that was useful | 23:39 |
| lifeless | but I don't think we have to make it 100% brain-free | 23:40 |
| SpamapS | I think we're already asking them to think about a lot of things. | 23:40 |
| greghaynes | Well, I definitely saw the JSONFILE thing, and said thats odd I bet its referring to TE_DATAFILE before running it... | 23:40 |
| SpamapS | Like there are blocks of really useful prose that newbies are absorbing .. and then they'll have to be interrupted and go back to the top of the page.. I just don't see the value in that. | 23:41 |
| greghaynes | but I do think it would be useful to make it more explocit on the devtest.html that we run "next steps" from devtest.sh, so this isnt necessarially a walkthtough | 23:41 |
| SpamapS | I get that it is easier to do that. | 23:41 |
| SpamapS | Perhaps even simpler. | 23:41 |
| SpamapS | But I don't think it is _helpful_. | 23:41 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: huh, no - they would set JSONFILE at the top of the page in this scenario | 23:42 |
| greghaynes | which somewhat furthers your point out these are separate contexts | 23:42 |
| lifeless | greghaynes: +1 | 23:42 |
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| bnemec | Well, I certainly understand the desire to avoid what amounts to global variables, but if we're going to do that then we no longer have the ability to straight copy-paste your way through the instructions. | 23:44 |
| bnemec | Which I'm not necessarily opposed to. | 23:44 |
| bnemec | Understanding the interactions between the scripts is going to be useful as well. | 23:44 |
| lifeless | I don't understand; that sounds like we're now back an hour ago in the conversation | 23:45 |
| lifeless | the header at the top seemed to suit everyone. What went wrong with that proposal ? | 23:45 |
| slagle | i think we're talking in circles around each other at this point | 23:46 |
| bnemec | I mean if $1 shows up in the docs then I can't copy "JSONFILE=$1" into my terminal and run it as-is. | 23:46 |
| bnemec | Maybe we're at a point where we need a concrete example to discuss? | 23:47 |
| slagle | yea, i agree | 23:47 |
| slagle | maybe someone can submit that? i don't think 70860 is it | 23:48 |
| bnemec | Well, 70860 is probably a prereq. | 23:48 |
| bnemec | (as I understand it, which may very well be wrong :-) | 23:49 |
| slagle | sure, i suppose. it just doesn't stand on it's own | 23:49 |
| slagle | it would be *not good* to have 70860 land in any amount of time without other changes directly after it | 23:49 |
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| bnemec | Okay, I think I need to sit down and propose a new version of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/67535/ and then everyone can yell at me for misunderstanding what they wanted. :-) | 23:53 |
| bnemec | Then we can revisit this either here or on Gerrit, depending on how much more discussion is needed. | 23:54 |
| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack/tripleo-incubator: Attempt to make devtest_testenv docs work better. https://review.openstack.org/70873 | 23:55 |
| lifeless | slagle: bnemec: ^ | 23:55 |
| greghaynes | Nice commit msg | 23:55 |
| lifeless | slagle: I don't see what harm 70860 would do on its own, it doesn't make anything worse - it just surfaces stuff thats currently hidden | 23:55 |
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