14:00:12 <mattmceuen> #startmeeting airship 14:00:12 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Apr 14 14:00:12 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mattmceuen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:00:14 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 14:00:17 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'airship' 14:00:18 <mattmceuen> #topic Rollcall 14:00:27 <mattmceuen> Good morning/evening everyone! 14:00:30 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> o/ 14:00:40 <mattmceuen> Here's our agenda for today: https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/airship-meeting-2020-04-14 14:00:49 <airship-irc-bot1> <dwalt> o/ 14:00:52 <airship-irc-bot1> <ih616h> o/ 14:01:02 <ian-pittwood> o/ 14:01:03 <mattmceuen> please add any review requests or topics that you'd like to discuss today 14:01:59 <airship-irc-bot1> <mb551n> o/ 14:02:35 <mattmceuen> we have folks coming in from the design call now; we'll give it just another minute... 14:03:24 <mattmceuen> Alrighty: 14:03:36 <mattmceuen> #topic Announcements 14:03:41 <mattmceuen> alexander.hughes, take it away sir 14:04:10 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> hello all! it's been a fantastic 10 months since Airship introduced it's formal governance paving the way to be confirmed as a top level OSF project 14:04:42 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> in June, 2 months from now we'll hold our next committee election, for the TC. the responsibilities and eligibility is defined here: https://opendev.org/airship/governance#user-content-technical-committee 14:05:02 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> something to ponder for those looking to get more involved in the community 14:05:23 <mattmceuen> the year has flown by quickly :) 14:05:40 <mattmceuen> the working committee elections will follow quickly about a month later as well 14:06:13 <mattmceuen> Thanks for the heads up alex. Any other thoughts/questions on this one? 14:06:36 <mattmceuen> #topic irc-slack bot 14:06:47 <mattmceuen> portdirect: thanks for bringing this one up, go for it 14:06:58 <portdirect> nothing really to add 14:07:05 <portdirect> not sure who is looking after the bot 14:07:10 <mattmceuen> bots taking over the world 14:07:43 <openstackgerrit> Ian Howell proposed airship/airshipctl master: Uplift go-git https://review.opendev.org/717856 14:07:52 <mattmceuen> jbryce fyi: this is how bot-copied text looks if you're using an alternate client to slack -- https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/5LDRdjJK/Screen%20Shot%202020-04-14%20at%208.11.21%20AM.png 14:07:59 <mattmceuen> not sure if there's a config for that or not 14:08:49 <mattmceuen> Reminder for folks using slack in general: your underlying slack ID (typically your email address minus the domain) is reported in IRC by the bot 14:09:22 <mattmceuen> This is changeable if you choose to change it (deep in some config item in slack). E.g. michael beaver, you're showing up as the vanilla: 14:09:24 <mattmceuen> <mb551n> o/ 14:10:20 <mattmceuen> Anyway, if anyone has experience with resolving the bot-identity problem in other slack/irc clients, please let portdirect and us know 14:11:44 <mattmceuen> moving on in the meantime: 14:12:06 <mattmceuen> #topic Airship blog calls for content 14:12:14 <mattmceuen> go for it alexander.hughes 14:13:15 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> thanks Matt, we mentioned this during the virtual meetup that we've got content on the airship blog here https://www.airshipit.org/blog/ but we've had a lot of great work lately from contributors that deserve to be showcased. things that have gone above and beyond plain documentation where we've had demos of new features being worked and detailed discussions on challenges and victories with these features 14:13:42 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> if you'd like to showcase any of that work, it's as simple as contributing in markdown to https://github.com/AirshipWeb/airship-website/ if you'd like to get involved or need direction don't hesitate to reach out to me 14:14:20 <mattmceuen> sharing accomplishments and informing the community - sounds like a win win 14:15:39 <mattmceuen> Please chew on that and come up with some good things to share, team. We can also enlist extra hands to help with writing tasks; step 1 is "good ideas" 14:16:04 <mattmceuen> Next topic: 14:16:10 <mattmceuen> #topic Consolidate common Zuul jobs into aiship-zuul-xxx repo 14:16:16 <mattmceuen> Not sure who added this one? 14:16:17 <roman_g> Hi. It's mine. 14:16:23 <mattmceuen> ah thanks roman_g, go for it 14:16:46 <roman_g> Just wanted to ask if it's a good time to move common jobs to separate repo and then import them from it. 14:17:29 <roman_g> Opinions? 14:17:47 <mattmceuen> Good question. We'd started out developing common jobs in airshipctl directly to allow them to stabilize, but originally with the plan to move them back to the zuul job repo when stable 14:17:59 <roman_g> We have this zuul-airship-something repo already 14:18:11 <mattmceuen> roman_g just curious, are you aware of other projects that could reuse any jobs yet? 14:18:37 <roman_g> Airship/images and airship/airshipctl may be. 14:19:03 <roman_g> Are we interested in improving airship 1.x jobs/gates? 14:19:20 <airship-irc-bot1> <aodinokov> due to the fact that images is a separate directory, we can't test images :slightly_smiling_face: 14:19:39 <airship-irc-bot1> <aodinokov> in the job :slightly_smiling_face: 14:20:15 <roman_g> http://opendev.org/airship/images - I meant this repo 14:20:22 <mattmceuen> I think we're always interested in proving airship 1.x jobs/gates. I'm not sure whether it makes sense to share jobs between A1 and A2, but I think putting common A1 jobs in the zuul repo might be good if we see a good opportunity for it 14:20:41 <airship-irc-bot1> <dwalt> I think we recently tried to do this with one of the jobs, but we ended up breaking the developer gate scripts, which are not aware of the ways we can indicate role dependencies in Zuul. I think we need to develop an offline dependency strategy first. 14:20:56 <uzumaki> +1 14:21:07 <airship-irc-bot1> <dwalt> With that being said, there are a lot of opportunities to reuse our roles, especially in Airship 1 14:21:43 <mattmceuen> dwalt: putting you on the spot, are you able to walk us through the dependency issue we ran into? 14:21:51 <airship-irc-bot1> <dwalt> Anything that does publishing or mirroring would be great to have consistent across all ~20 repos or however many variations we maintain now 14:21:55 <airship-irc-bot1> <dwalt> I'll do my best :slightly_smiling_face: 14:22:35 <roman_g> thanks. publishin 14:22:47 <roman_g> Publishing and mirroring seem to be good targets 14:23:09 <mattmceuen> yeah, agree roman_g 14:23:42 <roman_g> What is good is that is independent of devs, and would not break anything. 14:23:56 <roman_g> *it is independent of devs 14:23:58 <airship-irc-bot1> <dwalt> We moved a docker role out of airship/airshipctl and into airship/images recently. I can't remember which one. When we did so, we "imported" that role into airshipctl using a feature in zuul that allows you to use roles in other repositories. This left our upstream CI green, but downstream, the dependent roles were missing, as zuul was not there to pull them in. Our downstream strategy could be as simple as cloning airship/images. 14:24:32 <uzumaki> re the mirroring topic, there's also a script in the zuul.d I suppose, which does Github comment posting, using Gerrit events. This is the single script in the scripts directory. I noticed it's not being used anymore, and has been succeeded by the airshipbot. Do we still want to keep that? And the Zuul job it corresponds to? 14:24:36 <airship-irc-bot1> <dwalt> +1 to testing with those jobs first roman_g uzumaki 14:25:27 <airship-irc-bot1> <dwalt> s/downstream/locally 14:25:29 <roman_g> OK, thanks. I'm done. 14:26:11 <roman_g> Downstream/locally - devs should ideally install and use ansible ;) 14:26:35 <uzumaki> <dwalt> agree on testing those first 14:26:52 <roman_g> This way we wold not duplicate work, by writing 1) ansible code and then 2) bash code. 14:27:40 <airship-irc-bot1> <dwalt> The scripts I'm referring to are just dev friendly wrappers on the ansible: https://github.com/airshipit/airshipctl/tree/master/tools/gate 14:27:40 <mattmceuen> one approach is to put content into shell scripts, and then invoke those within zuul via shallow ansible playbooks 14:27:50 <mattmceuen> portdirect did some great things with that approach in openstack-helm 14:28:30 <mattmceuen> And asking developers to run bash locally on their laptops seems more reasonable to me than ansible, but that's only an opinion 14:29:31 <mattmceuen> but I also agree roman_g that it would be nice from a CI perspective to use "zuul everywhere" and not juggle different CI systems 14:29:41 <airship-irc-bot1> <dwalt> +1 for the OSH approach. That was always helpful when getting started in OSH 14:29:44 <jtwill98> +1 bash is locally available 14:30:21 <airship-irc-bot1> <pb269f> I've got a poc of the bash approach for airshipctl that i could push up this week if there is interest? 14:30:43 <airship-irc-bot1> <pb269f> it would need some cleanup, but is what ive been using in my home lab for a couple of weeks 14:30:46 <mattmceuen> oh yeah, that would be cool to see 14:30:48 <howell> +1 for the poc 14:30:58 <airship-irc-bot1> <dwalt> I'd love to give that a try 14:31:00 <airship-irc-bot1> <dwalt> +1 14:31:03 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> +1 14:31:13 <portdirect> ok - will do :) 14:31:16 <mattmceuen> thanks portdirect 14:31:28 <mattmceuen> and roman_g, dwalt 14:31:43 <mattmceuen> ok! I think we can move on: 14:31:57 <mattmceuen> #topic Reminder for new contributors - GitHub issues https://github.com/airshipit/airshipctl/issues 14:32:03 <airship-irc-bot1> <dwalt> as for the original question, are we safe to test those mirroring jobs in airship/zuul-jobs? 14:32:11 <mattmceuen> oops sorry to cut you off dwalt 14:32:12 <airship-irc-bot1> <dwalt> since they should have no impact locally 14:32:23 <airship-irc-bot1> <dwalt> no worries :slightly_smiling_face: 14:32:49 <mattmceuen> I think that makes a good first target, yeah - and can go ahead 14:33:27 <airship-irc-bot1> <dwalt> great! Thanks for bringing this up roman_g 14:33:32 <airship-irc-bot1> <dwalt> and volunteering ;) 14:33:37 <mattmceuen> hahahah 14:34:08 <mattmceuen> alright, lemme try a fresh segue: 14:34:12 <mattmceuen> #topic Reminder for new contributors - GitHub issues https://github.com/airshipit/airshipctl/issues 14:34:21 <mattmceuen> go for it alexander.hughes 14:34:22 * uzumaki is wondering if that :slightly_smiling_face: can be tab-completed. Or if <dwalt> is determined enough to type the whole thing 14:34:48 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> I got a message from a new community member a few minutes ago asking on how to get involved in airship development, so first I'd like to welcome all of the new community members that are lurking in chat 14:35:01 <mattmceuen> o/ welcome! 14:35:11 * uzumaki keeps lurking about, sneaking, prowling 14:35:26 <raymonddeng> Hi, that was me! Thanks for the warm welcome ^^ 14:35:28 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> and to answer the question again publicly, the best way to jump in with issues is by heading over to https://github.com/airshipit/airshipctl/issues and browsing through the list. I highly encourage you all to make use of the new labels, such as "good first issue" or "documentation" etc. to find an issue that interests you 14:35:42 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> welcome Raymond :slightly_smiling_face: 14:35:58 <uzumaki> welcome aboard raymonddeng ! o/ 14:36:00 <mattmceuen> +1 welcome Raymond, feel free to reach out here any time if you'd like some help getting started 14:36:58 <mattmceuen> And now, I pass the baton back to you roman_g: 14:37:01 <mattmceuen> #topic Copyright line in file headers 14:37:38 <roman_g> Apache 2.0 license application example says that there should be a copyright line 14:38:02 <roman_g> We don't have it in airshipctl at the moment. 14:38:38 <roman_g> Has there been a discussion in WC/TC what should be put there? Who is copyright owner? 14:38:57 <roman_g> Lawers have been contacted, may be? 14:39:13 <roman_g> https://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0#apply 14:39:25 <mattmceuen> we've discussed somewhere, forget which forum exactly 14:39:32 <mattmceuen> check out kubernetes' license: https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/blob/master/LICENSE 14:39:55 <mattmceuen> it is one of many many examples that simply leave the Copyright template as-is 14:40:16 <roman_g> https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/blob/master/cmd/kubectl/kubectl.go#L2 14:40:18 <mattmceuen> I believe that's what we followed, trusting in the cumulative lawyer wisdom of the open source community at large 14:40:24 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> but the headers in files has been a subject of debate lately, looking at k8s again https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/blob/master/pkg/api/endpoints/util.go 14:40:41 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> lists copyright kubernetes authors 14:40:56 <mattmceuen> alexander.hughes, can you share a link to the debate if you can find it again? 14:41:00 <roman_g> Kubernetes community adds copyright line in every file, as it is recommended https://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0#apply 14:41:35 <mattmceuen> We have erred away from e.g. "Airship Authors" copyrighting to date, as it is not a legal entity (neither is Kubernetes Authors as far as I know) 14:41:45 <portdirect> copywrite in the files means very little 14:41:53 <portdirect> what matters is the copywrite of the commit 14:42:04 <mattmceuen> +1 14:42:19 <portdirect> other than being a topic of endless debate of course ;) 14:42:24 <mattmceuen> which is a cumulative thing -- can have multiple copyrights on a per-file basis up top 14:42:32 <portdirect> please no 14:42:41 <portdirect> we can, and theres nothing wrong with it 14:42:53 <portdirect> but the one thing that really matters at the end of the day is git log 14:43:06 <mattmceuen> ah, I see what you mean 14:43:12 <portdirect> it just makes things super complex, and frankly hard to approach 14:43:50 <portdirect> its why the `Kubernetes Authors` approach is used 14:43:51 <uzumaki> how do we ensure copyrighting in commits? the signed-off-by thing? or the CLA? 14:43:55 <portdirect> it just heads off this thing 14:44:17 <portdirect> and gently directs people to make use of the version control history for the authorship 14:44:30 <portdirect> otherwise, in the case of both k8s and the linux kernel 14:44:44 <portdirect> your (c) headers would be hundreds if not thousands of lines long 14:45:02 <uzumaki> oh I see! 14:45:49 <mattmceuen> the joys of open source 14:46:10 <mattmceuen> anything else on this topic folks? 14:46:21 <uzumaki> well, how does this entity get defined then? 14:46:22 <roman_g> No 14:46:30 <uzumaki> the "Kubernetes Authors" 14:46:40 <uzumaki> it's implied that it includes all the committers? 14:46:58 <mattmceuen> That's why we don't have an "Airship Authors" defined - because that's not a legal entity 14:46:59 <portdirect> they are the authors of kubernetes 14:47:32 <uzumaki> so, like the OWNERS file people? 14:47:57 <mattmceuen> I think there is a healthy dose of "it doesn't matter" when it comes to this stuff -- the license guarantees it's open source, the git history shows who the authors are 14:48:05 <portdirect> no - to use a book/adademic paper analogy, they are the 'editors' 14:48:12 <portdirect> mattmceuen: +++ 14:48:32 <uzumaki> ah! I get it now. That's what I was thinking as well, got it 14:48:34 <mattmceuen> and theres a lot of examples of big projects /not/ defining a copyright in the Authors file 14:48:37 <uzumaki> portdirect, I see, thanks! 14:48:55 <mattmceuen> you are not the first person to be confused by this stuff uzumaki :D 14:49:02 * mattmceuen was at least earlier in the confusion chain 14:49:18 <mattmceuen> ok! moving on! 14:49:23 <uzumaki> I see, well, open source has its own joys, like you said mattmceuen 14:49:37 <mattmceuen> #topic Review Requests 14:49:45 <mattmceuen> https://review.opendev.org/#/c/717856/ - uplift go-git 14:49:45 <mattmceuen> https://review.opendev.org/#/c/718532/ - Add APIExtensions ClientSet to airship Client 14:49:45 <mattmceuen> https://review.opendev.org/#/c/717844/ - Remove deprecated `interfacer` linter 14:50:11 <mattmceuen> Let's please get some solid reviews on these ones today. Any additional patchsets that y'all would like to put forward today? 14:51:00 <mattmceuen> as you do, feel free to drop a note in the IRC channel anytime 14:51:05 <mattmceuen> #topic Roundtable 14:51:19 <mattmceuen> Any additional topics, or community feedback this morning? 14:51:27 <uzumaki> mattmceuen, a small nit. Can we somehow embed the agenda etherpad link with the topics? That way, if sbd joins in later, they can quickly come upto speed with the etherpad 14:51:59 <mattmceuen> would definitely be interested in making that easier 14:52:14 <uzumaki> that'll be great 14:52:17 <mattmceuen> for the most part I think they're aligned already (I for one tend to copy and paste out of the agenda) 14:52:37 <mattmceuen> are you thinking more like, dropping the verbatim topic name into the etherpad after its kicked off? 14:52:39 <uzumaki> no, I mean, the etherpad URL, part of the topic string 14:52:47 <mattmceuen> ohhhhhhhh 14:52:48 <mattmceuen> I see 14:53:23 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> For the new community members I forgot to mention another good set of resources for getting engaged with the day to day of Airship development https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Airship lists all our community meetings, how to subscribe to the mailing list, etc. 14:53:25 <uzumaki> And we can keep the topic name bunch of identifying keywords, not to make the topic stirng too long 14:53:30 <mattmceuen> I'll take an action item to look into the meeting bot documentation, and see what I can do uzumaki 14:53:52 <uzumaki> mattmceuen, that sounds great! 14:53:55 <mattmceuen> if this is something we could automate somehow, would make it super easy 14:54:12 <uzumaki> yes 14:54:38 <mattmceuen> thanks for sharing that alexander.hughes 14:54:57 * mattmceuen also, etherpad :) https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/airship-meeting-2020-04-14 14:55:08 <uzumaki> merci! 14:55:23 <mattmceuen> de rien 14:55:32 <mattmceuen> any other topics team? 14:55:39 <uzumaki> nope 14:55:59 <mattmceuen> alright - thanks for a productive meeting; hope you all enjoy the rest of your Tuesday 14:56:05 <mattmceuen> See you next week if not before :) 14:56:09 <mattmceuen> #endmeeting