15:00:28 <mattmceuen> #startmeeting airship
15:00:36 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Feb  2 15:00:28 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mattmceuen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:37 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:00:39 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'airship'
15:00:40 <mattmceuen> #topic Rollcall
15:00:46 <airship-irc-bot1> <ih616h> o/
15:00:47 <mattmceuen> Good morning/evening everybody!
15:00:48 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> o/
15:00:59 <airship-irc-bot1> <sirajudeen.yasin> o/
15:01:01 <airship-irc-bot1> <j_t_williams> o/
15:01:09 <airship-irc-bot1> <ak3216> o/
15:01:11 <mattmceuen> Let's give it just a couple minutes for folks to join - here's our agenda:  https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/airship-team-meeting
15:01:13 <airship-irc-bot1> <mb551n> o/
15:01:59 <dwalt> o/
15:02:52 <jemangs> o/
15:04:23 <airship-irc-bot1> <james.gu> o/
15:04:33 <mattmceuen> Ok, let's get started
15:04:45 <mattmceuen> Short agenda today --
15:04:50 <mattmceuen> #topic OpenSUSE builds
15:05:22 <mattmceuen> The background for anyone not familiar with it is that we have a collection of builds in our Airship 1 gates to test ingration of Airship 1 components on OpenSUSE images
15:05:47 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> That one's mine :slightly_smiling_face: just wanted to have a quick discussion on the state of Airship1 image build pipelines - which image builds do we want to support? Most (all?) projects currently build an Ubuntu Xenial, Ubuntu Bionic, and an OpenSUSE image
15:06:11 <mattmceuen> Are the SUSE jobs currently failing or passing?
15:06:50 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> SUSE is passing currently, Xenial just recently started failing with pip errors and needed some updates to keep building images
15:07:43 <mattmceuen> So I think the key word you have in your original question is "support"
15:07:44 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> But the question to me is, as a community, how much effort do we put into these images that are seemingly unused - our reference configuration in Treasuremap isn't being updated and certainly isn't using SUSE.  I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that the images in TM are all Bionic
15:08:31 <mattmceuen> After the folks who were working on the opensuse integration shifted their focus away, I think we left the gates in place because they did more good than harm - no harm in letting them continue to run green
15:08:46 <mattmceuen> I think the question is, what happens if they break?  And other things that would take active work
15:09:40 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> yep, I don't mind to leave them in place as they run, but the xenial failures last week prompted a thought exercise on what we do with the less popular image build pipelines as they begin to fail
15:09:46 <portdirect> osa faced this challenge
15:10:12 <portdirect> once the gates broke, they moved them to non-voting, and put a message out to the ml
15:10:31 <portdirect> AFAIK after two-three weeks, they ere then removed
15:10:39 <portdirect> *were
15:10:58 <mattmceuen> That makes a lot of sense.  Gives anyone with an interest in opensuse support a chance to fix them if they want
15:11:40 <mattmceuen> Sound reasonable to you too @alexander.hughes?
15:11:59 <airship-irc-bot1> <jb2592> I'd say remove support for ubuntu xenial, but we should add for ubuntu focal
15:12:13 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> yes, but should we limit the scope of this approach to OpenSUSE or should we include xenial as well?
15:12:28 <portdirect> I'd two them in two seperate actions
15:12:32 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> and to Jim's point, should we add newer Ubuntu image distros to the image build pipelines
15:12:41 <portdirect> if suse's not broken atm - leave it for now
15:12:58 <mattmceuen> +1
15:13:12 <portdirect> but its high time airship2 supported focal - and i dont thing anyones doing net-new 16.04 deployments
15:13:41 <mattmceuen> Agree, I'll get that added to our backlog if it's not already there
15:13:52 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> agree but we're straying from the original question - Airship2 should definitely support focal, but Airship1 ?
15:14:46 <portdirect> are people using xenial in production with as1?
15:15:31 <portdirect> if so - id keep xenial builds working until their sites migrate to newer distro
15:15:43 <portdirect> may save some weekend work if a hotfix is needed ;)
15:17:08 <mattmceuen> Yeah, there are still some production deployments I know of using 1604, so it would be worth a bit of effort to keep those gates running
15:17:18 <airship-irc-bot1> <j_t_williams> IMO, there needs to be a commitment within the community to support previous Airship versions N-months beyond the release of a newer version, unless the community falls in line with dropping support.
15:18:55 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> so to make sure I understand your position - for Airship 1: support images that are still used in prod deployments, 2: leave in place image build pipelines that are not used in prod deployments until they begin to fail on their own - at which point, change to non-voting and communicate to community that support is ending unless someone wants to begin maintaining, 3: no new image build pipelines (e.g., focal for Airship 1
15:18:56 <airship-irc-bot1> projects)
15:18:57 <mattmceuen> Agree that community needs are paramount.  There can be a long tail on production deployments, so the "is anyone still using this" question is important
15:19:43 <airship-irc-bot1> <j_t_williams> @alexander.hughes I agree with your comment.
15:20:01 <portdirect> alexanderhughes: ++
15:20:06 <mattmceuen> I'm not sure if we should take a "# of months" approach, at least for airship1, since it has only a handful of operators.  If all those operators have moved on from a version, then there's no need to support
15:20:27 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> so on (1) supporting what's in prod, perhaps a survey to the community is in order so we can understand what's being used and start setting tentative dates on ending support for old images
15:20:46 <portdirect> mattmceuen: agreed - i think we should however give ax month period for a as yet unknown user to step up
15:21:01 <mattmceuen> that makes sense
15:21:07 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> and with airship2 around the corner, that survey could provide an update on airship2 status and steps on getting started for new deployments
15:21:31 <mattmceuen> should we add that to our current (ongoing) survey and then blast it out?
15:21:46 <airship-irc-bot1> <j_t_williams> I think so
15:22:22 <mattmceuen> ok cool, I'll sync w/ Ashlee on that
15:22:31 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> I think that could be a separate item as part of Airship2 GA announcement personally - communicate GA, and get a sense of who is using A1 and if they plan to move to A2 and how long they plan to keep their A1 deployments
15:23:02 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> could alternatively update the existing survey, and include as part of the GA announcement when it occurs
15:23:19 <airship-irc-bot1> <j_t_williams> The only reason for a N month or some deadline is to prod the community to look beyond the current version.
15:23:25 <portdirect> it would be really nice to see that data by industry alexanderhughes
15:24:18 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> agreed, our engagement on the surveys has been low, I'd like to take that to one of the committee meetings and review current responses and our approach to socializing the survey
15:25:10 <mattmceuen> Sounds good - we can carry that one forward to our next WC or TC meeting, we have some time
15:25:15 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> +1
15:26:00 <airship-irc-bot1> <j_t_williams> +1, I'm Ok with that but there no harm to adding it to the survey.  Feedback in any for is good.
15:26:09 <mattmceuen> yeah, not mutually exclusive
15:26:44 <mattmceuen> Alright, anything else on this one alexander.hughes?
15:27:28 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> yep, so recap real quick -- airship2: Matt will add Focal support to backlog if not already present // airship1: survey when airship2 GA releases to discuss support of airship1 projects going forward, we will not be adding any new image build pipelines, and existing pipelines will be maintained as long as their is prod use of the images generated by them - if there is not they will be moved to non-voting for a period of
15:27:28 <airship-irc-bot1> time before being disabled (with communication sent to community to verify that image is no longer being used)
15:27:57 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> there*
15:28:19 <mattmceuen> Sounds good!  That is copy-paste-save worthy, thanks for the summary
15:28:27 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> thanks :slightly_smiling_face:
15:28:37 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> that's all from me
15:28:48 <mattmceuen> #topic Review Requests & Roundtable
15:28:55 <mattmceuen> One request this morning:  https://review.opendev.org/c/airship/airshipctl/+/773084
15:29:18 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> 2 liner ^ updating the linter to include newer version of gosec
15:29:18 <mattmceuen> it's a tiny one, let's try to get it reviewed today
15:29:36 <mattmceuen> Any other patchsets folks would appreciate timely reviews on?
15:31:17 <mattmceuen> Alright, then we can have a half hour back - thanks everybody for your time today
15:31:20 <mattmceuen> have a good one
15:31:24 <airship-irc-bot1> <alexander.hughes> thanks all!
15:31:36 <mattmceuen> #endmeeting