16:00:01 <cdent> #startmeeting api-sig
16:00:01 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Sep  6 16:00:01 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is cdent. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:02 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
16:00:04 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'api_sig'
16:00:05 <cdent> #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/API-SIG#Agenda
16:00:15 <cdent> #chair edleafe elmiko dtantsur
16:00:16 <openstack> Current chairs: cdent dtantsur edleafe elmiko
16:00:20 <cdent> who is here today?
16:00:35 <dtantsur> o/
16:01:15 <elmiko> o/
16:01:23 <edleafe> not me
16:01:25 <elmiko> just finishing another meeting
16:02:07 <cdent> #topic oldbiz
16:02:26 <cdent> #link minutes http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_sig/2018/api_sig.2018-08-30-16.00.html
16:03:06 <cdent> edleafe was to keep an eye on this api 3.0 stuff
16:03:07 <cdent> he did
16:03:08 <cdent> huzzah
16:03:15 <edleafe> yay me!
16:03:21 <cdent> cdent reorder some of his pending guidelines which somehow have bad dependencies
16:03:23 <cdent> i did
16:03:45 <elmiko> yeah, i was really curious about the openapi discussion that went on last time, but never got a chance to read the minutes. is there a quick summary?
16:04:37 <edleafe> elmiko: just that it doesn't seem like anything we need to act on now
16:04:47 <elmiko> ack, thanks
16:04:50 <edleafe> But to keep an eye on it in case it develops momentum
16:05:36 <elmiko> i have a selfish personal interest in the openapi stuff
16:05:52 <cdent> there was also an unnamed action to "reinvigorate version discovery and consumption guidelines", but I don't think that went anywhere
16:06:05 <elmiko> i've been working on a tool for arbitrary code generation from openapi, no support for 3.0 yet, but i'm hoping to add it soon
16:06:21 * dtantsur does not quite believe in code generation from schemas
16:06:31 <edleafe> elmiko: interesting. How would such a tool be useful in the OpenStack community?
16:06:32 <cdent> that's a good way to put it dtantsur
16:06:55 <elmiko> edleafe: i'm not sure that it would unless folks wanted to use more openapi for defining their api's
16:07:00 <edleafe> dtantsur: he did say "arbitrary", not "useful" :)
16:07:23 <dtantsur> lol, okay
16:07:30 <elmiko> but i've tried to build something that has a wide margin of applicapability by allowing the user to generate templates that get applied against the openapi data
16:07:51 <elmiko> in essence you have the freedom to customize how the code is generated, which is something that current tools kinda lack
16:08:06 <elmiko> dtantsur: what's not to believe in, it works
16:08:20 <dtantsur> elmiko: sure, I did not use "believe" in that sense
16:08:26 <elmiko> hahaha =)
16:08:40 <elmiko> now is it /useful/? that's a different question
16:08:46 <dtantsur> based on my rust-openstacksdk experience, a literal SDK generated from our API would be quite unusable
16:08:50 <elmiko> anyways, if folks are curious, https://gitlab.com/elmiko/deswag
16:09:07 <dtantsur> my favourite example includes using empty string for missing fields (hello nova)
16:09:15 <dtantsur> * examples include
16:09:17 <elmiko> dtantsur: using a tool that makes all the code choices for you, i tend to agree
16:09:59 <dtantsur> I'd be happy if something could generate https://github.com/dtantsur/rust-openstack/blob/master/src/network/protocol.rs#L198-L236
16:10:22 <dtantsur> but even this low-level structure required some conscious choices
16:10:36 <dtantsur> elmiko: I'm not trying to diminish the value of your work, just sharing my experience :)
16:11:22 <elmiko> dtantsur: no worries, i think the field of auto-generated code has made some really bad steps in the past and that has left many people (myself included) highly skeptical about their value
16:12:03 <elmiko> edleafe: to your question earlier, i'm not sure that openapi and code generators can necessarily help projects in openstack that already have established code bases
16:12:13 <elmiko> i think it's more attractive for projects that are starting up
16:12:17 <cdent> when ed and I are at the ptg we'll be sure to make code generation plans that ignore both elmiko and dtantsur
16:12:27 <dtantsur> :D
16:12:27 <elmiko> ++
16:12:36 <edleafe> elmiko: no last-minute travel approval?
16:12:43 <elmiko> heh, sadly no
16:12:46 <cdent> not _yet_
16:12:49 <elmiko> LOL
16:13:07 <dtantsur> elmiko: I'm still thinking of generating some rust, then fixing it manually
16:13:12 <dtantsur> but it requires writing a generator :)
16:13:16 <elmiko> my last-minute travel plans are trying to figre out which train i will take to come visit cdent =D
16:13:23 <cdent> \o/
16:13:46 <elmiko> dtantsur: check out my project, you can make jinja templates that create code for you from the openapi schema. it might give you the flexibility you need
16:14:08 <dtantsur> I certainly will, await pull requests :)
16:14:13 <elmiko> also, it's very alpha currently. so yeah...
16:14:17 <elmiko> hehe ++
16:15:03 <dtantsur> I wish we had an example schema for at least one project
16:15:07 <dtantsur> (one microversion of one project)
16:15:23 <dtantsur> this conversation could be much more constructive if we had something real
16:15:27 <cdent> I guess gilles was gonna do that, but then got distracted by graphql
16:16:24 <elmiko> we might be able to transpile one of the sphinx schema things into openapi
16:17:15 <elmiko> i had thought that's what graham was building up to
16:17:31 <cdent> graham had a change of circumstances
16:18:04 <elmiko> ah, ok
16:18:14 <elmiko> hope everything is well for him
16:18:54 <cdent> yes, I think so, just less time for "fun" openstack things
16:19:02 <elmiko> ack
16:19:24 <cdent> Shall me move on or is there more to say about openapi and graphql?
16:19:35 <elmiko> nothing more from me
16:19:50 <edleafe> put a fork in it
16:20:00 <cdent> #topic open mic and ongoing or new biz
16:20:01 <cdent> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/api-sig-stein-ptg
16:20:13 <cdent> so hey, monday we gonna meet up with some folk and chat about some stuff
16:20:28 <cdent> that etherpad is sort of an agenda, but more than likely we'll talk about whatever people in the room want to talk about
16:20:33 <cdent> do we need to drive it more than that?
16:21:01 <elmiko> i think what is proposed sounds good
16:21:48 <elmiko> hopefully you'll have a nice crowd and the agenda will set itself ;)
16:22:05 <edleafe> We have microversions mentioned, so we should have a good crowd
16:22:13 <elmiko> hahaha
16:22:21 <edleafe> Add something about k8s, and it'll be standing-room only!
16:22:24 <elmiko> you'll have a crowd, not sure how "good" it will be XD
16:22:30 <elmiko> ooh yeah, good point
16:22:43 <dtantsur> and edge, edge!
16:22:47 <elmiko> serverless!
16:22:53 <elmiko> blockchain!
16:23:19 <cdent> i think we might all be getting a bit jaded
16:23:23 <edleafe> "Running your serverless microversioned blockchain in Kubernetes"
16:23:25 <elmiko> hahaha
16:23:32 <elmiko> cdent: you /think/...
16:23:35 <elmiko> XD
16:23:51 * cdent calls the VCs about edleafe's idea
16:24:00 <elmiko> ++
16:24:24 <edleafe> I thought that this was under NDA
16:25:16 * cdent points and laughs
16:25:37 * edleafe feels like the Winklevoss twins
16:25:56 <elmiko> haha
16:27:00 <dtantsur> :D
16:27:07 <cdent> Anything else on the ptg?
16:27:30 <elmiko> have fun and represent!
16:27:35 <edleafe> We'll save a seat for elmiko
16:27:45 <edleafe> 'Cause you know he'll show up
16:27:49 <elmiko> =D
16:27:53 <cdent> good planning
16:28:04 * elmiko would love to come strolling in on monday
16:29:12 <cdent> elmiko is playing the long con
16:29:29 <cdent> #topic guidelines
16:29:29 <cdent> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/api-sig,n,z
16:29:30 * edleafe isn't fooled
16:29:50 <cdent> I don't think we've had any changes, other than me unblocking some stuff that got stacked when it didn't need to
16:30:33 <cdent> obpromise: more work on guidelines soon!
16:31:05 <elmiko> \o/
16:31:11 <cdent> #topic bug review
16:31:11 <cdent> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/project/1039
16:31:24 <cdent> no changes here either
16:31:32 <cdent> what is it this sig does, anyway?
16:32:24 <dtantsur> chats with awesome people once a week?
16:32:27 <elmiko> we hold some of the best meetings in the entire openstack community damnit!
16:32:28 <edleafe> make jokes
16:32:35 <dtantsur> see, solidarity!
16:32:39 <elmiko> =D
16:32:44 <cdent> word
16:32:59 <cdent> community building
16:33:24 <cdent> #topic weekly newsletter
16:33:25 <cdent> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/api-sig-newsletter
16:33:39 <cdent> whoever does the letter (not me), can you say there will be no meeting next week?
16:33:57 <edleafe> Sure, I'll do it
16:34:04 <elmiko> thanks edleafe !
16:34:34 <cdent> huzzah
16:34:44 <edleafe> I'll send the usual ping in -sdks
16:34:52 <elmiko> huzzah
16:34:58 <cdent> anything else from any one?
16:35:17 <elmiko> pour one out for me at the ptg, i'll miss you guys =)
16:35:23 <cdent> yeah yeah
16:35:26 <elmiko> hahaha
16:35:33 * cdent remembers take extra cash for elmiko's drinks
16:35:35 * edleafe thought you were gonna say "roll one up..."
16:35:41 <elmiko> edleafe: ++
16:35:49 <edleafe> It *is* Colorado, after all
16:35:54 <elmiko> tru dat
16:36:04 <dtantsur> and a beer or two for me
16:36:16 <elmiko> ++
16:36:19 <cdent> headline: api-sig lights up masive doobie, decides REST sucks, goes back to xmlrpc
16:36:26 <elmiko> LOL
16:36:37 <cdent> and with that
16:36:39 <cdent> #endmeeting