16:00:06 <etoews> #startmeeting api wg
16:00:07 <openstack> Meeting started Thu May 26 16:00:06 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is etoews. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:08 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
16:00:10 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'api_wg'
16:00:16 <elmiko> hey
16:00:19 <etoews> hiya
16:00:39 <etoews> sorry i missed the past couple of meetings
16:00:47 <elmiko> no worries, we soldiered on =)
16:00:53 <etoews> :)
16:01:00 <etoews> cdent: in the house?
16:01:03 <elmiko> even took care of a few action items
16:01:08 <cdent> i yam
16:01:11 <elmiko> although i think i need to workflow a couple things
16:01:38 <etoews> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/API-WG#Agenda
16:01:52 <etoews> #topic previous meeting action items
16:02:02 <etoews> #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_wg/2016/api_wg.2016-05-19-16.00.html
16:02:13 <elmiko> so, i am merging the 2 we froze last time
16:02:19 <elmiko> and i setup the wiki page we talked about
16:02:19 <etoews> ++
16:02:24 <cdent>16:02:31 <elmiko> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/API_Working_Group_weekly_email_template
16:02:42 <elmiko> probably will need some tweaking, but it's a start
16:02:59 <elmiko> and i'll even offer to send the inagural newsletter on monday =)
16:03:14 * etoews reads
16:04:38 <cdent> is it worth having a "recently proposed guidelines" section, or it that inviting too much noise?
16:05:05 <elmiko> seemed like the community wanted more noise, so maybe it would be worth it
16:05:38 <etoews> i think so
16:05:42 <elmiko> maybe something like "guidelines currently under construction" or something similar?
16:05:48 <etoews> let's update the template right now
16:05:57 <elmiko> do it! =)
16:06:32 <cdent> righteous
16:07:22 <elmiko> hmm, need to remove some of the wiki formatting from the template too
16:07:39 <etoews> concurrent editing on wiki bad. do we need a temp etherpad?
16:07:49 <elmiko> nope, i can wait
16:08:10 <elmiko> unless we want to get some sort of mega-brain concurrent work session going =)
16:08:31 <etoews> i'd like to have these meetings be more work oriented
16:09:00 <elmiko> i don't necessarily have a problem with that, but i think we need more contributors
16:09:26 <cdent> in this case I think we only need the one change on the template, so whereas etherpad would make a ton of sense, now, meh?
16:09:38 <elmiko> right
16:10:33 <etoews> okay.
16:10:43 <etoews> who's making the change?
16:10:56 <elmiko> oh, lol, i thought you were!
16:10:59 <etoews> exactly
16:11:08 <elmiko> ok, i'll add it
16:11:12 <etoews> now we play. who has the semaphore?
16:11:16 <elmiko> haha
16:13:28 <elmiko> ok, check it out now
16:14:45 <cdent> seems good, I think the main win is getting it started and evolving
16:15:08 <elmiko> yea, i just tried to shotgun blast the high points we talked about last time
16:15:24 <elmiko> i think there is room to improve the language and add content
16:15:26 <etoews> i'm all for one of the outputs of this meeting to be the sending of the email
16:15:34 <elmiko> ok, cool
16:15:43 <etoews> but if you want it on a different sched that's fine too
16:16:09 <elmiko> i don't have a strong opinion on that one. it might be nice to send them after our meetings though as the info will be fresh in our minds
16:16:22 <etoews> right.
16:16:38 <cdent> If I understand etoews correctly, he might be suggesting that we co-write it as part of our weekly doings in this hour?
16:16:42 <etoews> and easier to load balance producing the newsletter when there are several of us around to write it.
16:16:50 <etoews> cdent: pretty much
16:16:59 <elmiko> sure, just toss the template into a pad and have at it!
16:17:06 <etoews> more action during meetings. less todos.
16:17:33 <elmiko> heh
16:17:36 <cdent> what time of day is it for you etoews, about 10 or 11?
16:17:55 <cdent> (I forget where you are)
16:17:58 <etoews> 11
16:18:04 <etoews> i'm in austin (CST)
16:18:06 <etoews> https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/api-wg-newsletter
16:18:25 <cdent> word
16:19:12 <etoews> do we have any API guidelines proposed for freeze?
16:19:20 <elmiko> not yet ;)
16:19:52 <etoews> k. we'll remove that section for this week.
16:20:17 <elmiko> i think we should just say, "None" or something to leave the emails consistent
16:20:30 <cdent> yeah, looks like it is time to a) start doing some more guidelines b) start making the todos and typos into issues in launchpad  c) doing them issues
16:20:55 <cdent> s/None/Make one!
16:20:57 <cdent> or something like that?
16:21:21 <cdent> (for the under review part I mean)
16:22:36 <cdent> the only open guideliness at the moment are either controversial or lost their main supporters, should these email be something that indicates that people need to come back to them?
16:22:52 <etoews> i'm going to abandon https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162716/
16:22:57 <elmiko> i think that definitely falls in line with providing more noise
16:23:11 <cdent> etoews++
16:23:16 <elmiko> +1
16:25:05 <etoews> elmiko: are you saying don't put anything under Guidelines currently under review because they're all controversial/lost main supporters?
16:25:33 <elmiko> no, i agree with putting controversial stuff there
16:25:41 <cdent> the opposite, yeah, people want more noise, so this is the kind of noise we should do
16:25:42 <elmiko> we should let the community know about our pain points
16:25:51 <etoews> k
16:25:59 <elmiko> hopefully someone will see us having issues and want to help =)
16:26:21 <etoews> feel free to jump into the etherpad and CRUD!
16:28:09 <cdent> i've just reordered to: merged->frozen->debated
16:28:19 <cdent> it was frozen->merged->debated which didn't feel right
16:28:23 <cdent> i'll update the wiki page
16:28:45 <elmiko> ack, thanks!
16:30:30 <etoews> ready to go? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/api-wg-newsletter
16:30:37 <elmiko> awesome, that worked out well. i think so
16:31:25 <etoews> cdent: ready to go for you?
16:31:30 <cdent> yeah, seems good
16:31:42 <etoews> elmiko: do you want to go ahead and send it right now?
16:31:51 <elmiko> sure, i can do that
16:31:51 <cdent> hawt
16:32:01 <etoews> so hawt right now
16:32:09 <elmiko> hehe
16:32:18 <elmiko> we should add something to the wiki about a suggested email subject
16:32:47 <elmiko> using [all][api] API working group weekly newsletter, for now
16:32:58 <elmiko> unless either of you has a really catchy title
16:33:12 <cdent> i think that's just soooooper
16:33:30 <elmiko> like "[all][api] POST {'news': 'weekly update'}" =)
16:33:41 <elmiko> or POST /api-wg/news/update
16:33:50 <etoews> POST update????
16:33:58 <cdent> demerit!
16:34:01 <elmiko> right, POST /api-wg/news
16:34:05 <elmiko> sorry
16:34:11 <etoews> :D
16:34:18 <etoews> i like it
16:34:20 <elmiko> i'm trying to think of something catchy like "whats up doc?"
16:34:22 <elmiko> it's tough
16:34:27 <etoews> no no. you nailed it.
16:34:36 <cdent> yeah, POST /api-wg/news is great
16:34:41 <etoews> yep
16:34:41 <elmiko> ok, col
16:34:44 <elmiko> cool even
16:35:24 <elmiko> sent!
16:35:35 <etoews> boom
16:35:41 <cdent> only now ill we see the typoes
16:35:46 <cdent> and typos even
16:35:51 <etoews> will even
16:35:51 <elmiko> doh!
16:36:20 <cdent> nnnnnnngh
16:36:35 <etoews> #topic guidelines
16:36:39 <cdent> this is a nice step forward
16:36:48 <etoews> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/api-wg,n,z
16:36:52 <etoews> agreed
16:37:15 <etoews> we should sync our freezing and merging to this meeting time too.
16:37:27 <etoews> having a weekly meeting is so much nicer
16:37:27 <elmiko> yea, seems like a natural fit
16:37:31 <elmiko> +1
16:37:52 <cdent> so all of these are pretty stale
16:37:59 <elmiko> yea
16:38:07 <cdent> the email ought to bring in some people
16:38:27 <cdent> and we can determine which to kill, which need a new owner, etc
16:38:29 <elmiko> i hope so
16:38:59 <etoews> as you know, i'm currently interested in the actions guideline https://review.openstack.org/#/c/234994/
16:39:22 <cdent> are you interested in providing a new version?
16:39:41 <elmiko> yea, i don't have the bandwidth to update that one
16:40:19 <etoews> cdent: i am but...
16:40:26 <elmiko> ;)
16:41:06 * etoews looks at travel/vacation schedule
16:41:45 <cdent> one thing I think we probably need to do more of is take some of these kinds of issues to the list prior to proposing a guideline. I think the notion of proposing such general guidelines before establishing some foundation is backwards
16:42:29 <cdent> that feels anti-openstack, but as far as I'm concerned it is the openstack-major-fail-whale
16:42:52 <elmiko> hmm, interesting idea
16:43:10 <etoews> didn't we try that already w.r.t. actions?
16:43:40 <cdent> I think we tried to encourage discussion on the proposal, or near to it, instead of going deeper
16:44:32 <cdent> also, the actions case may not be a place where it neesd to happen, I'm just proposing the idea
16:44:42 <elmiko> seems like we will be adding 1 more step to the process though, 1. start convo on ml, 2. write guideline, 3. review, 4. freeze, is thta accurate?
16:45:02 <cdent> I'm not saying it should be part of the process always
16:45:12 <elmiko> gotcha
16:45:20 <etoews> i see it. http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-January/084236.html
16:45:24 <cdent> in fact I think it should be rare, in part because I think for many guidelines there is a right way already established, we just need to find it
16:46:27 <cdent> but for some concepts we are being a bit more pioneering. when that's the case, I think we need to discuss to make sure we're on the same ground
16:46:49 <cdent> https://twitter.com/anticdent/status/735232718846472192
16:47:53 <elmiko> lol
16:48:53 <etoews> did you have a new/existing guideline in mind for that cdent?
16:49:52 <cdent> no, sadly I haven't had a chance to think in terms of guidelines lately. that tweet was inspired by the "where are the boundaries of openstack, is it programming language" thread(s)
16:50:06 <cdent> (10 minutes)
16:50:41 <etoews> once openstack invents its own programming language, that will put the whole question of languages to bed.
16:50:50 <elmiko> i figured you were referencing the language discussions
16:50:54 <elmiko> haha!
16:51:47 <cdent> etoews: that's perfect
16:52:25 <cdent> any other actions we can make go today?
16:52:26 <etoews> so i *may* be able to take a stab at a tasks guideline in june. i've got a two week window in which to start it. if i miss that window, i won't be able to get to it until early july.
16:53:46 <elmiko> ack
16:54:49 <etoews> i'm considering starting to express confidence in terms of t-shirt sizes.
16:54:49 <etoews> in this case, i'm a medium
16:54:58 <elmiko> hehe
16:55:08 <elmiko> i like that metric
16:56:33 <etoews> anything else for today?
16:56:42 <cdent> no sirs
16:56:47 <etoews> anyone else going to pycon?
16:56:52 <cdent> no :(
16:57:32 <elmiko> nothing here
16:57:39 <elmiko> and sadly, no =(
16:58:10 <etoews> #endmeeting