16:00:06 <etoews> #startmeeting api wg 16:00:07 <openstack> Meeting started Thu May 26 16:00:06 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is etoews. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:00:08 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 16:00:10 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'api_wg' 16:00:16 <elmiko> hey 16:00:19 <etoews> hiya 16:00:39 <etoews> sorry i missed the past couple of meetings 16:00:47 <elmiko> no worries, we soldiered on =) 16:00:53 <etoews> :) 16:01:00 <etoews> cdent: in the house? 16:01:03 <elmiko> even took care of a few action items 16:01:08 <cdent> i yam 16:01:11 <elmiko> although i think i need to workflow a couple things 16:01:38 <etoews> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/API-WG#Agenda 16:01:52 <etoews> #topic previous meeting action items 16:02:02 <etoews> #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_wg/2016/api_wg.2016-05-19-16.00.html 16:02:13 <elmiko> so, i am merging the 2 we froze last time 16:02:19 <elmiko> and i setup the wiki page we talked about 16:02:19 <etoews> ++ 16:02:24 <cdent> ✔ 16:02:31 <elmiko> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/API_Working_Group_weekly_email_template 16:02:42 <elmiko> probably will need some tweaking, but it's a start 16:02:59 <elmiko> and i'll even offer to send the inagural newsletter on monday =) 16:03:14 * etoews reads 16:04:38 <cdent> is it worth having a "recently proposed guidelines" section, or it that inviting too much noise? 16:05:05 <elmiko> seemed like the community wanted more noise, so maybe it would be worth it 16:05:38 <etoews> i think so 16:05:42 <elmiko> maybe something like "guidelines currently under construction" or something similar? 16:05:48 <etoews> let's update the template right now 16:05:57 <elmiko> do it! =) 16:06:32 <cdent> righteous 16:07:22 <elmiko> hmm, need to remove some of the wiki formatting from the template too 16:07:39 <etoews> concurrent editing on wiki bad. do we need a temp etherpad? 16:07:49 <elmiko> nope, i can wait 16:08:10 <elmiko> unless we want to get some sort of mega-brain concurrent work session going =) 16:08:31 <etoews> i'd like to have these meetings be more work oriented 16:09:00 <elmiko> i don't necessarily have a problem with that, but i think we need more contributors 16:09:26 <cdent> in this case I think we only need the one change on the template, so whereas etherpad would make a ton of sense, now, meh? 16:09:38 <elmiko> right 16:10:33 <etoews> okay. 16:10:43 <etoews> who's making the change? 16:10:56 <elmiko> oh, lol, i thought you were! 16:10:59 <etoews> exactly 16:11:08 <elmiko> ok, i'll add it 16:11:12 <etoews> now we play. who has the semaphore? 16:11:16 <elmiko> haha 16:13:28 <elmiko> ok, check it out now 16:14:45 <cdent> seems good, I think the main win is getting it started and evolving 16:15:08 <elmiko> yea, i just tried to shotgun blast the high points we talked about last time 16:15:24 <elmiko> i think there is room to improve the language and add content 16:15:26 <etoews> i'm all for one of the outputs of this meeting to be the sending of the email 16:15:34 <elmiko> ok, cool 16:15:43 <etoews> but if you want it on a different sched that's fine too 16:16:09 <elmiko> i don't have a strong opinion on that one. it might be nice to send them after our meetings though as the info will be fresh in our minds 16:16:22 <etoews> right. 16:16:38 <cdent> If I understand etoews correctly, he might be suggesting that we co-write it as part of our weekly doings in this hour? 16:16:42 <etoews> and easier to load balance producing the newsletter when there are several of us around to write it. 16:16:50 <etoews> cdent: pretty much 16:16:59 <elmiko> sure, just toss the template into a pad and have at it! 16:17:06 <etoews> more action during meetings. less todos. 16:17:33 <elmiko> heh 16:17:36 <cdent> what time of day is it for you etoews, about 10 or 11? 16:17:55 <cdent> (I forget where you are) 16:17:58 <etoews> 11 16:18:04 <etoews> i'm in austin (CST) 16:18:06 <etoews> https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/api-wg-newsletter 16:18:25 <cdent> word 16:19:12 <etoews> do we have any API guidelines proposed for freeze? 16:19:20 <elmiko> not yet ;) 16:19:52 <etoews> k. we'll remove that section for this week. 16:20:17 <elmiko> i think we should just say, "None" or something to leave the emails consistent 16:20:30 <cdent> yeah, looks like it is time to a) start doing some more guidelines b) start making the todos and typos into issues in launchpad c) doing them issues 16:20:55 <cdent> s/None/Make one! 16:20:57 <cdent> or something like that? 16:21:21 <cdent> (for the under review part I mean) 16:22:36 <cdent> the only open guideliness at the moment are either controversial or lost their main supporters, should these email be something that indicates that people need to come back to them? 16:22:52 <etoews> i'm going to abandon https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162716/ 16:22:57 <elmiko> i think that definitely falls in line with providing more noise 16:23:11 <cdent> etoews++ 16:23:16 <elmiko> +1 16:25:05 <etoews> elmiko: are you saying don't put anything under Guidelines currently under review because they're all controversial/lost main supporters? 16:25:33 <elmiko> no, i agree with putting controversial stuff there 16:25:41 <cdent> the opposite, yeah, people want more noise, so this is the kind of noise we should do 16:25:42 <elmiko> we should let the community know about our pain points 16:25:51 <etoews> k 16:25:59 <elmiko> hopefully someone will see us having issues and want to help =) 16:26:21 <etoews> feel free to jump into the etherpad and CRUD! 16:28:09 <cdent> i've just reordered to: merged->frozen->debated 16:28:19 <cdent> it was frozen->merged->debated which didn't feel right 16:28:23 <cdent> i'll update the wiki page 16:28:45 <elmiko> ack, thanks! 16:30:30 <etoews> ready to go? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/api-wg-newsletter 16:30:37 <elmiko> awesome, that worked out well. i think so 16:31:25 <etoews> cdent: ready to go for you? 16:31:30 <cdent> yeah, seems good 16:31:42 <etoews> elmiko: do you want to go ahead and send it right now? 16:31:51 <elmiko> sure, i can do that 16:31:51 <cdent> hawt 16:32:01 <etoews> so hawt right now 16:32:09 <elmiko> hehe 16:32:18 <elmiko> we should add something to the wiki about a suggested email subject 16:32:47 <elmiko> using [all][api] API working group weekly newsletter, for now 16:32:58 <elmiko> unless either of you has a really catchy title 16:33:12 <cdent> i think that's just soooooper 16:33:30 <elmiko> like "[all][api] POST {'news': 'weekly update'}" =) 16:33:41 <elmiko> or POST /api-wg/news/update 16:33:50 <etoews> POST update???? 16:33:58 <cdent> demerit! 16:34:01 <elmiko> right, POST /api-wg/news 16:34:05 <elmiko> sorry 16:34:11 <etoews> :D 16:34:18 <etoews> i like it 16:34:20 <elmiko> i'm trying to think of something catchy like "whats up doc?" 16:34:22 <elmiko> it's tough 16:34:27 <etoews> no no. you nailed it. 16:34:36 <cdent> yeah, POST /api-wg/news is great 16:34:41 <etoews> yep 16:34:41 <elmiko> ok, col 16:34:44 <elmiko> cool even 16:35:24 <elmiko> sent! 16:35:35 <etoews> boom 16:35:41 <cdent> only now ill we see the typoes 16:35:46 <cdent> and typos even 16:35:51 <etoews> will even 16:35:51 <elmiko> doh! 16:36:20 <cdent> nnnnnnngh 16:36:35 <etoews> #topic guidelines 16:36:39 <cdent> this is a nice step forward 16:36:48 <etoews> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/api-wg,n,z 16:36:52 <etoews> agreed 16:37:15 <etoews> we should sync our freezing and merging to this meeting time too. 16:37:27 <etoews> having a weekly meeting is so much nicer 16:37:27 <elmiko> yea, seems like a natural fit 16:37:31 <elmiko> +1 16:37:52 <cdent> so all of these are pretty stale 16:37:59 <elmiko> yea 16:38:07 <cdent> the email ought to bring in some people 16:38:27 <cdent> and we can determine which to kill, which need a new owner, etc 16:38:29 <elmiko> i hope so 16:38:59 <etoews> as you know, i'm currently interested in the actions guideline https://review.openstack.org/#/c/234994/ 16:39:22 <cdent> are you interested in providing a new version? 16:39:41 <elmiko> yea, i don't have the bandwidth to update that one 16:40:19 <etoews> cdent: i am but... 16:40:26 <elmiko> ;) 16:41:06 * etoews looks at travel/vacation schedule 16:41:45 <cdent> one thing I think we probably need to do more of is take some of these kinds of issues to the list prior to proposing a guideline. I think the notion of proposing such general guidelines before establishing some foundation is backwards 16:42:29 <cdent> that feels anti-openstack, but as far as I'm concerned it is the openstack-major-fail-whale 16:42:52 <elmiko> hmm, interesting idea 16:43:10 <etoews> didn't we try that already w.r.t. actions? 16:43:40 <cdent> I think we tried to encourage discussion on the proposal, or near to it, instead of going deeper 16:44:32 <cdent> also, the actions case may not be a place where it neesd to happen, I'm just proposing the idea 16:44:42 <elmiko> seems like we will be adding 1 more step to the process though, 1. start convo on ml, 2. write guideline, 3. review, 4. freeze, is thta accurate? 16:45:02 <cdent> I'm not saying it should be part of the process always 16:45:12 <elmiko> gotcha 16:45:20 <etoews> i see it. http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-January/084236.html 16:45:24 <cdent> in fact I think it should be rare, in part because I think for many guidelines there is a right way already established, we just need to find it 16:46:27 <cdent> but for some concepts we are being a bit more pioneering. when that's the case, I think we need to discuss to make sure we're on the same ground 16:46:49 <cdent> https://twitter.com/anticdent/status/735232718846472192 16:47:53 <elmiko> lol 16:48:53 <etoews> did you have a new/existing guideline in mind for that cdent? 16:49:52 <cdent> no, sadly I haven't had a chance to think in terms of guidelines lately. that tweet was inspired by the "where are the boundaries of openstack, is it programming language" thread(s) 16:50:06 <cdent> (10 minutes) 16:50:41 <etoews> once openstack invents its own programming language, that will put the whole question of languages to bed. 16:50:50 <elmiko> i figured you were referencing the language discussions 16:50:54 <elmiko> haha! 16:51:47 <cdent> etoews: that's perfect 16:52:25 <cdent> any other actions we can make go today? 16:52:26 <etoews> so i *may* be able to take a stab at a tasks guideline in june. i've got a two week window in which to start it. if i miss that window, i won't be able to get to it until early july. 16:53:46 <elmiko> ack 16:54:49 <etoews> i'm considering starting to express confidence in terms of t-shirt sizes. 16:54:49 <etoews> in this case, i'm a medium 16:54:58 <elmiko> hehe 16:55:08 <elmiko> i like that metric 16:56:33 <etoews> anything else for today? 16:56:42 <cdent> no sirs 16:56:47 <etoews> anyone else going to pycon? 16:56:52 <cdent> no :( 16:57:32 <elmiko> nothing here 16:57:39 <elmiko> and sadly, no =( 16:58:10 <etoews> #endmeeting