22:05:04 <Patifa> #startmeeting app_ecosystem_wg
22:05:05 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Feb 27 22:05:04 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Patifa. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
22:05:06 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
22:05:08 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'app_ecosystem_wg'
22:05:20 <Patifa> Done!
22:05:31 <Patifa> and here's our agenda for today
22:05:36 <docaedo> todays agenda:
22:05:39 <docaedo> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/2017_Feb_27_App_Dev_Enablement
22:06:03 <docaedo> I propose we jump to 1.2
22:06:03 <Patifa> anyone else joining?
22:06:16 <vhdiaz> o/
22:06:34 <Patifa> #topic pitch
22:06:47 * dfflanders waves at vhdiaz
22:07:08 <Patifa> So I started working on a document
22:07:17 <Patifa> #link https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1zP7CKoOrDMYMedtM1DfPjpKsFOzfkcH8JTEBPwn17VY/edit#slide=id.g1cdfd460bc_0_198
22:07:43 <Patifa> but it's pretty basic
22:08:13 <Patifa> I'm sure you guys can help beef it up a bit
22:09:00 <dfflanders> i like the new wording re: partner with platforms whose primary audience is app developers
22:10:37 <docaedo> +!
22:10:47 <docaedo> er, +1 I mean :D
22:10:56 <Patifa> haha
22:11:23 <flanders_> Are you both going to be in Boston?
22:12:07 <Patifa> I'm not sure yet
22:12:32 <docaedo> flanders_: Yeah I have it on my calendar, but will have to talk about what happens after that, I'm not sure whether I'll be able to keep making enough time :(
22:13:08 <Patifa> that seems to be my case too. :(
22:13:11 <docaedo> (on the plus side I manage a team that is >50% active openstack contributors, and a bunch of my time is focused on making sure they get to keep doing that)
22:13:29 <cbsterrett> sorry I am late
22:13:39 <flanders_> Hi Craig
22:13:49 <cbsterrett> Hi flanders
22:14:05 <docaedo> cbsterrett: we're not starting over just for you pal!
22:14:21 <cbsterrett> LOL
22:14:50 <Patifa> The whole idea behind the pitch was that we could have a single conversation starter for PaaS vendors attending the summit. To see if we could have them join the WG
22:16:39 <docaedo> Patifa: I think it's a really good start and makes a good case for why to get involved (and by extension why this WG exists)
22:17:18 <flanders_> +1 refocusing on PaaS/CaaS
22:17:54 <cbsterrett> +1 on the refocus
22:18:17 <cbsterrett> maybe we can generate more interest in the group with the change in focus to containers +
22:19:40 <Patifa> I'm stuck in some places like slide 3 - It looks pretty simple to me.. I was wondering if we should try to capture not only what we do( try to anyway) now but also what we would like to do
22:19:52 <Patifa> once we refocus
22:19:53 <docaedo> except there's no native container service widely deployed on openstack (it's available, but not on any public clouds AFAIK)
22:21:20 <flanders_> Refocus on platforms which provide containers? Such as: OpenShift, CloudFoundry, Deis, Cloudify, ranchers, K8S, etc.
22:22:13 <docaedo> well that's true, there's no relevant PaaS I'm aware of today that is NOT built around containers
22:23:39 <cbsterrett> Agree with Patfia, slide 3 should have more details on what we think we want to accomplish
22:24:14 <cbsterrett> Our goal is to build an ecosystem... through what methods
22:24:39 <cbsterrett> By creating reference architectures demonstrating PaaS options/environments, or ??
22:27:44 <Patifa> That is a good point.. that is why I was strugling with Slide 3 and 5. What we do vs what we'd like to do.. and also what is the ask for the new members..
22:28:19 <Patifa> If we they are interested in participating, what is there for them to do.
22:31:01 <flanders_> What have other WGs done which has been successful/effective?
22:31:02 <docaedo> I think that's where I feel a little helpless
22:31:28 <docaedo> like defining what we (or others) can do to actually "move the needle" (and what's that needle measuring?)
22:31:51 <docaedo> we have a super broad audience generally (any developer) so it's hard to tell if we're doing anything that benefits them
22:32:35 <docaedo> if we narrow the scope to operators (and trying to get them to deploy a PaaS for their users), it becomes REALLY hard to tell if we're reaching anyone at that point, as no ISP is going to share detailed metrics I think ...
22:32:43 <docaedo> ok maybe not NO isp, but seems a little unlikely
22:33:39 <docaedo> to go back to where this WG originally started though, is our mission still to provide a place (and tools) for developers to develop?
22:35:06 <Patifa> have we accomplished that mission?
22:36:08 <cbsterrett> Should PaaS/CaaS be a new work group and we just sunset this one?
22:36:18 <docaedo> Well I feel like we agreed that since openstack doesn't provide much for app devs (being an IaaS), we are looking to PaaS being the place to go
22:36:50 <docaedo> but yeah, cbsterrett has a good point - maybe it's time to just shut this down and try to gather folks interested in a PaaS-enabling WG?
22:38:30 <cbsterrett> Kicking off new might generate a new crowd and excitement.  And I think that the number of developers developing directly on IaaS may be limited and the impact might be better promoting PaaS/CaaS
22:38:53 <docaedo> Makes a lot of sense to me
22:38:57 <vhdiaz> +1
22:39:15 <vhdiaz> PaaS + Containers
22:39:44 <flanders_> It would be easier to recruit members  from the various PaaS/CaaS to a cross community WG...
22:40:23 <Patifa> flanders_ elaborate...
22:41:56 <flanders_> If we are taking on a new WG mission, it would be easier to approach CloudFoundry, OpenShift, PaaS/VaaS to suggest a joint WG...?
22:42:44 <vhdiaz_> correct, more focused
22:42:58 <cbsterrett> +1 sounds good
22:43:23 <Patifa> +1
22:43:34 <Rockyg> +1
22:43:38 <Patifa> docaedo? what is your take?
22:43:53 <Patifa> hi Rockyg!
22:44:18 <docaedo> +1
22:44:21 <Rockyg> hey!  been lurking
22:46:01 <cbsterrett> Hi Rocky
22:46:34 <Patifa> It looks was though our next meeting agenda is set: Define new mission and plan how to approach CF, OpenShift etc..
22:47:16 <docaedo> I like it
22:47:55 <Patifa> all right! :D
22:49:01 <flanders_> We should also note the call for forum sessions in Boston on the UC ML
22:49:51 <Patifa> That was the next item on the list
22:50:04 <Patifa> #topic forum brainstoming
22:50:13 <Patifa> 10 min
22:50:45 <docaedo> I have to drop off early (as in right now, sorry :(  )  I'll be available next week though to continue to conversation
22:50:56 <cbsterrett> Well we done?
22:52:23 <Patifa> I'm particularly good to call the meeting and reflect on the new focus.. but if anyone wants to continue.
22:52:34 <Patifa> we have 7 min :D
22:52:40 <cbsterrett> sounds good
22:53:26 <Patifa> going once...
22:54:09 <Patifa> going twice...
22:54:28 <cbsterrett> bye
22:54:32 <flanders_> L8er, see you next week for further platform musings 😃
22:54:39 <Patifa> :D
22:54:58 <Patifa> thanks everyone!
22:54:59 <Patifa> #endmeeting